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"What's going on in the country with the virus is matching our most pessimistic scenarios,"

torbee

HR King
Gold Member
Well, this is depressing. I hope this model proves to be too negative, but it feels like this is the direction we're heading:

The Delta Variant Will Drive A Steep Rise In U.S. COVID Deaths, A New Model Shows​


By Rob Stein,
Selena Simmons-Duffin
Published July 22, 2021 at 5:24 PM CDT
Frontline workers at a medical center in Aurora, Colo., gather for a COVID-19 memorial on Thursday, July 15, to commemorate the lives lost to the pandemic. New estimates say many thousands more will die in the U.S. this summer and fall.


The current COVID-19 surge in the U.S. — fueled by the highly contagious delta variant — will steadily accelerate through the summer and fall, peaking in mid-October, with daily deaths more than triple what they are now.

That's according to new projections released Wednesday from the COVID-19 Scenario Modeling Hub, a consortium of researchers working in consultation with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to help the agency track the course of the pandemic.

It's a deflating prospect for parents looking ahead to the coming school year, employers planning to get people back to the workplace, and everyone hoping that the days of big national surges were over.
"What's going on in the country with the virus is matching our most pessimistic scenarios," says Justin Lessler, an epidemiologist at the University of North Carolina who helps run the modeling hub. "We might be seeing synergistic effects of people becoming less cautious in addition to the impacts of the delta variant.

"I think it's a big call for caution," he adds.

The group's latest projections combine ten different mathematical models from various academic teams to create an "ensemble" projection. It offers four scenarios for its projections — varying based on what percent of the population gets vaccinated and how quickly the delta variant spreads.

In the most likely scenario, Lessler says, the U.S. reaches only 70% vaccination among eligible Americans, and the delta variant is 60% more transmissible. In that scenario, at the peak in mid-October, there would be around 60,000 cases and around 850 deaths each day, Lessler says.

Each scenario also includes a range of how bad things could get — the very worst end of the range for the most likely scenario shows about 240,0000 people getting infected and 4,000 people dying each day at the October peak, which would be almost as bad as last winter.

Lessler notes there's a lot of uncertainty in these projections, and how things actually plays out depends on lots of factors, including whether the vaccination campaign picks up steam, and whether other mitigation measures are put back into place.

"Changes in behavior that we didn't predict and big shifts in vaccination could very much change these results," Lessler says.

But overall, the main projection shows a steady slope upwards to the peak in October, and then a steady slope back down.

"By the time you get to October, these resurgent epidemics have burned through a lot of the people who are susceptible," Lessler explains.

At that point, "herd immunity starts kicking in a little more aggressively and we start to see things going down again." By January 2022, the model shows deaths coming back down to around the current level of about 300 per day.

The take-home message of this latest model is that the pandemic isn't over yet and "we're not going to be able to land the plane without turbulence," says William Hanage, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. "How much turbulence will track with how many people are vaccinated in a given community."

"I also strongly suspect that delta is highly prone to superspreading — if I am right, it might go off like a bomb in some under-vaccinated communities," Hanage adds.

Public policy and behavior could still move the dial toward milder outcomes, Lessler says.

"I think states should maybe be rethinking the speed at which they're removing mask mandates or social distancing," Lessler says. "That is something that — if you want to keep cases under control — certainly would have an impact."

Those measures would have to come from state or local leaders. Despite calls for the CDC to issue new mask guidelines, at a briefing Thursday, CDC director Rochelle Walensky once again held firm.

She emphasized that the guidelines have always said that unvaccinated people should wear masks indoors. She added that even vaccinated people could wear masks indoors, too, if they want extra protection, especially in places where the virus is surging and there are a lot of unvaccinated people. But her main message was the same: Get vaccinated.

With that, Lessler agrees. "If we got enough people vaccinated, we could even stop the delta variant in its tracks," he says.
 
I believe anyone over the age of 18 that is able to should get vaccinated.

If the delta variant is even less deadly yet more transmittable than the original variant, how far away from the statistics showing "it's the flu" are we? We are talking about something with a incredibly high survival rate to begin with, I'm pretty sure if we tracked everyone that died with the flu its numbers would look awful also. Serious question here.
 
I believe anyone over the age of 18 that is able to should get vaccinated.

If the delta variant is even less deadly yet more transmittable than the original variant, how far away from the statistics showing "it's the flu" are we?
Probably around a half-million American deaths and more than 4 million globally.
 
Probably around a half-million American deaths and more than 4 million globally.

Those are the statistics using the original variant with everyone is saying ismore deadly correct?


Not trying to be a dick here torbs, this thing has always been slightly more deadly than the flu and now we have a variant that is less deadly than the original. If the trend of "more contagious less leathal" continues it is going to produce the same statistics as a hard flu season right?
 
Those are the statistics using the original variant with everyone is saying ismore deadly correct?


Not trying to be a dick here torbs, this thing has always been slightly more deadly than the flu and now we have a variant that is less deadly than the original. If the trend of "more contagious less leathal" continues it is going to produce the same statistics as a hard flu season right?
I haven't seen any statement that the Delta variant is less deadly to the unvaccinated. If it's out there, please cite.

At least that way we'll have a better baseline as to the validity to that argument.
 
Those are the statistics using the original variant with everyone is saying ismore deadly correct?


Not trying to be a dick here torbs, this thing has always been slightly more deadly than the flu and now we have a variant that is less deadly than the original. If the trend of "more contagious less leathal" continues it is going to produce the same statistics as a hard flu season right?
I mean, it's just more of a PIA than flu. Even at a low mortality rate, the high number of infections still cause a lot of illness, missed work and lead to the ongoing push-and-pull of what mitigation efforts to keep in place - which just serves to fuel our idiotic inter-political fighting even more.

Is it going to wipe out populations or send the world into a major depression? Nah. But the FIX IS SO SIMPLE and PEOPLE ARE STILL CHOOSING NOT TO DO IT. Which is highly, highly frustrating, IMO.
 
I haven't seen any statement that the Delta variant is less deadly to the unvaccinated. If it's out there, please cite.

At least that way we'll have a better baseline as to the validity to that argument.
From what I've read, it is causing less deaths primarily because it is being spread much more among young, otherwise healthy people - since more seniors are vaccinated.
 
Those are the statistics using the original variant with everyone is saying ismore deadly correct?


Not trying to be a dick here torbs, this thing has always been slightly more deadly than the flu and now we have a variant that is less deadly than the original. If the trend of "more contagious less leathal" continues it is going to produce the same statistics as a hard flu season right?
10 times is “slightly” more deadly?
 
I haven't seen any statement that the Delta variant is less deadly to the unvaccinated. If it's out there, please cite.

At least that way we'll have a better baseline as to the validity to that argument.
I'm pretty sure I have read that many places, give me a few ans I'll see what sources I can find.
 
From what I've read, it is causing less deaths primarily because it is being spread much more among young, otherwise healthy people - since more seniors are vaccinated.
So it does not appear any less deadly to the infected than the other variant... it's just spreading more quickly through a population with fewer co-morbidities.

Fair - just wanted to square that. Thought perhaps I hadn't seen some recent report out of India, where it's been noticed the longest and therefore accessible to more historical data mining.
 
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So it does not appear any less deadly to the infected than the other variant... it's just spreading more quickly through a population with fewer co-morbidities.

Fair - just wanted to square that. Thought perhaps I hadn't seen some recent report out of India, where it's been noticed the longest and therefore accessible to more historical data mining.
This references India.


 
Does this model predict those previously infected and unvaccinated are at the same risk level as those not previously infected and unvaccinated?
 
I haven't seen any statement that the Delta variant is less deadly to the unvaccinated. If it's out there, please cite.

At least that way we'll have a better baseline as to the validity to that argument.
But much is still unknown or unproven, including whether this variant may cause more severe illness. A recent Scottish study, for instance, found that people infected by the Delta variant were roughly twice as likely to be hospitalized as those infected with Alpha. More research and data are needed to assess its effects in comparison to those of other variants.

“The severe disease piece I think is the one question that really hasn’t been answered yet,” Dr. Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, said last month.

From https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/...action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
 
"Each scenario also includes a range of how bad things could get — the very worst end of the range for the most likely scenario shows about 240,0000 people getting infected and 4,000 people dying each day at the October peak, which would be almost as bad as last winter."

Somebody might save this post to make me eat crow, but 85% of deaths have occurred in an age group that is now 95% immune via either vaccination or having had the virus. By September probably 230 million Americans will have had at least one dose of the vaccine. If we assume the unvaccinated are more likely to have been engaging in unsafe behavior this whole time we can guess that at least 30% of them have contracted the virus. Which means we can add another 30 million to the list of immune. That would bring us to nearly 80% who are immune one way of another.

It's hard to understand the logic that says it is remotely possible that in October, with 80% of Americans immune and 95% of the most vulnerable immune, we could somehow manage to reach the numbers we saw when no more than 10% of 15% of us were immune.

Yes, it's sad, pitiful, frustrating, etc. that millions of idiots won't get vaccinated. But so long as this is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" I'm not ready to panic.

(Edit)
For more perspective, at our peak we had perhaps 500 people a day dying who were under the age of 65. Since the over 65 age group is now almost completely immune, for us to reach the scenario above, people under the age of 65 would have to be dying at a rate at least seven times higher than they were last winter. Even though most are now vaccinated.
 
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