Who is the best collegiate wrestler 2015-2016
- Thread starter Stanley75
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While I agree with the Chief, 1stplace, pablow & others who assert that this is irrelevant to this discussion AND, if you have a problem with one ride, you have a problem with both...
My original post was directed at DonHawkeye and pretty much got the response I expected, as Don later comes on here and somehow tries to justifiy Sorenson's ride because he jumps out to the side, lol.
Not too get this any more off track, Chief, but I will point out when you compare Sorenson and Retherford's stats that Sorenson's 18 bp wins and 6 falls included 6 bp wins and 2 falls over non-D1 opponents. Retherford did not face any non-D1 opponents in his season. Ruthafurd for HODGE!
My original post was directed at DonHawkeye and pretty much got the response I expected, as Don later comes on here and somehow tries to justifiy Sorenson's ride because he jumps out to the side, lol.
Not too get this any more off track, Chief, but I will point out when you compare Sorenson and Retherford's stats that Sorenson's 18 bp wins and 6 falls included 6 bp wins and 2 falls over non-D1 opponents. Retherford did not face any non-D1 opponents in his season. Ruthafurd for HODGE!
I justified Sorenson's ride because, unlike say a Tony Nelson, it is a textbook spiral ride where you get to the outside. When you get to the outside on a spiral ride it is a fair ride where the bottom and top guy have decent chances of improving the situation. While it might not be ideal for turning a guy, you are giving the bottom guy a fair chance to improve. This is basically one of the first rides you are taught as a kid and every decent coach will tell you that if you run it to the outside you are fine.
Parallel rides should be improved on quickly. They should either be stalemated, called stalling or the top guy turns him.
Back to the original point I was trying to make is. If the refs let Rutherford use his leg scissor/figure four ride he will be one of the top guys. It is my opinion that they shouldn't, but that does not mean much.
I have the same feeling with double legs. Once the bottom mans hips are flat to the mat it is basically a torture/stall ride.
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I agree with everything you say. Just wanted to point out that a parallel ride, pretty much by definition, means the top guy won't be turning him. Pretty much impossible to turn a guy from a parallel ride. The Evans-style power half might be an exception, but even then, he has to get away from parallel to actually turn his opponent.
I agree there should be very little tolerance for parallel rides. Abolishing riding time would be a good start in getting rid of them, IMO.
Dice...not to get too off point as well but one of Sorensen's majors also included a returning AA...but that was Durso who moved up from 141 so you might not want to count that 
Don't have the time but I wonder how many AAs Sorensen beat vs how many Zain did (if we are talking strength of schedule). This is off the top of my head:
Sorenson: TShirt, Durso, Streibler, Kindig
Zain:Streibler
Help me out folks if I missed any.
Don't have the time but I wonder how many AAs Sorensen beat vs how many Zain did (if we are talking strength of schedule). This is off the top of my head:Sorenson: TShirt, Durso, Streibler, Kindig
Zain:Streibler
Help me out folks if I missed any.
Dice...not to get too off point as well but one of Sorensen's majors also included a returning AA...but that was Durso who moved up from 141 so you might not want to count that
Sorenson: TShirt, Durso, Streibler, Kindig
Zain:Streibler
Help me out folks if I missed any.
Tshirt the only one who AA'd that year, lol.
I could make arguments against all of the other 3 that you mentioned but I'd rather deal with some guy's paranoid post about guys rooting against Metcalf today, probably because of some wacked post he read on themat.com five years ago.Dice...not to get too off point as well but one of Sorensen's majors also included a returning AA...but that was Durso who moved up from 141 so you might not want to count that
Sorenson: TShirt, Durso, Streibler, Kindig
Zain:Streibler
Help me out folks if I missed any.
All Americans Sorenson has beaten: TShirt, Stieber the Injured, Rick Durso, Josh Kindig, Chris Villalonga, Dan Neff
All Americans Retherford has beaten: Stieber the Fourr-Time Champ, Joey Lazor, Stephen Dutton, Chris Mecate, Ugi Khishignyam, Evan Henderson, Dan Neff
Non-All Americans who've beaten Sorenson: Bobby Williams, Brody Grothus, CJ Cobb, Joey Lavallee
Non-All Americans who've beaten Retherford:
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High School kids who have destroyed Retherford in the last year: Pico
High School kids who have destroyed Sorenson in the last year: None
lol...don't think bringing in freestyle results are going to help Sorenson out.
I don't know what you're talking about. Funny thing is he actually has a figure 4 on a leg at one point in this match. Stalled the hell out of it...
Well then there's "that" evidence out there............
Is the start of the season upon us because the pissing match b/w PSU bloggers and IA bloggers is getting old
Is the start of the season upon us because the pissing match b/w PSU bloggers and IA bloggers is getting old
The only reason Sorenson didn't get destroyed by that "high school kid" is that he got clobbered by Retherford before he reached the finals. That's really your argument for why Sorenson's record is more impressive?
You could not be more ignorant with that statement. You basically just said you want your kid to stall to a win. How is he going to get any better, by beating up all the pussies? It is thinking like yours that is killing the sport.
I think Iowa since Kurdelmeier and Gable days philosophy was to dominate not squeak wins. Have you never noticed Gable back in the day or Brands wanting a guy to do more offensively during the year so he could be better prepared for the NCAA's against the same opponent? Neither want a 3-2 win only to be majored at NCAA's because you were not prepared for the same guy.
P.S. I would love to get both hooks in on you flattend out and see how quick you could get out, calling someone a pussy for not being able to get out of that is just plain stupid. Now is it their fault they got in it yes!
Aww...I see how it works. When tOSU coach claims that Logan is sick with the flu, BWI is inundated with posts making fun of said coach for making excuses or minimizing Zain's great victory. But when Sorenson beats Hunter, it's because of an injury. Gotcha. Injury or not, didn't Hunter beat your guy?
BTW, I see you counted some of Sorenson's losses from his redshirt. Does this mean we can now all agree that Cael wasn't undefeated?
Sure is a lot of talk about two wrestlers that may or may not see each other all year!!!!
Still have Tsirtis, Sueflohn, Stieber, Pantaleo, and Theobold in the Big Ten that could prevent these two from meeting. Add in guys like Collica, Moreno and others at NCAA's. Just saying there is no clear favorite at 149 this year and upsets happen all the time. Would like to see these guys in the finals of both tournaments. Iowa winning both times of course.
Still have Tsirtis, Sueflohn, Stieber, Pantaleo, and Theobold in the Big Ten that could prevent these two from meeting. Add in guys like Collica, Moreno and others at NCAA's. Just saying there is no clear favorite at 149 this year and upsets happen all the time. Would like to see these guys in the finals of both tournaments. Iowa winning both times of course
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True, good point...I love the thought of it though!! Sorensen is awesome, Zain is Awesome...The match will be awesome!! It has to happen or I will be extremely disapointed
Did any of you actually wrestle or coach wrestling? The rules are what they are, a wrestler is going to take advantage of them.
And the guy that mentioned Gable. Have you watched him wrestle in college? It's not even the same sport anymore. He's is was out of position so many times when he wrestled, he was just ahead of the game as far as conditioning goes. Those days are over. Ride them out and take the riding time until the rules change or do dumb shit like Brooks at Okey and get beat.
And to the ass who said Zain copied my 7 y/o's kids ride is a fool. He's already a two time nationinal champion on team Iowa, it's not frickin rocket science, it's a wrestling ride. wow
And the guy that mentioned Gable. Have you watched him wrestle in college? It's not even the same sport anymore. He's is was out of position so many times when he wrestled, he was just ahead of the game as far as conditioning goes. Those days are over. Ride them out and take the riding time until the rules change or do dumb shit like Brooks at Okey and get beat.
And to the ass who said Zain copied my 7 y/o's kids ride is a fool. He's already a two time nationinal champion on team Iowa, it's not frickin rocket science, it's a wrestling ride. wow
Are you still convinced the point of changing rules is because some wrestlers are pussies? You probably realize, now, how ridiculous that sounds.
You might want to read my post again. What I was saying is that when Gable was a coach he would rather you be offensive looking for things that work, don't work, or tendencies in an opponent so you would be better prepared for the same guy when everything was on the line at the NCAA's. To hell with the score in another tournament or dual the Iowa guy will end up on top when it counts was the philosophy.
Also I did wrestle and coached wrestling. We coached our kids to be offensive and if they lost by a point or two so what. We made them understand that everyone, even the best ever, get beat from time to time. A lot of those kids that had some athletic ability and natural talent passed the kids that stalled their way to victory and were OK with it by a long shot.
I won't reply to you again but I will say this again.........people like you teaching young kids that it is OK to stall because a "win is a win" is what is wrong with this sport, 2-1 with 3 minutes of riding time how F'N EXCITING!
Did you just watch the one bad match he had against Owings, SansSouci? Just wondering. He looked pretty sharp in the Olympics on his feet. Lee Kemp, Randy Lewis and many, many others can attest to just have wicked tough the Man was on the mat.
As a wrestler who competed AGAINST Gable's men, I can attest that a fella was in for one wild ride. I'm a bit puzzled by what's going on out there these days in terms of boring-ness. Appreciated Jay Borschel and Daniel Dennis more recently though very much. Where are the Banachs, Kinseths, Lewises, Bushes, McIlravys, Ironsides of the world these days? Machine guns like Barry Davis, hammers like Alger, super sweet technicians like Jim Heffernan? Riding AND TURNING machines like the Steiners? I didn't see the Williams Brothers, but they must have been something. Zalesky Brothers were scoring animals as well. Given that Metcalf was a Davis/Brands look-a- like and great scorer- he seems to be a bit of an anomaly, not because of championships, but because of his offense, yet we are seeing much more of a slow-down trend in matches, rather than a great set-up/moving the opponent out of position and BAM!
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I hope they never get rid of RT and I hate the thought of a push out point. Just call stalling and the action will come.
That is the problem, they do not call stalling!! I am OK with riding time staying as long as the top man is trying to turn the bottom guy and that means not staying parallel to his opponent. If you ride you get dinged for stalling. After awhile they will get it and if they do not get out to the side or have an opportunity to turn the bottom man they will give up the escape.
You forgot about starting each period from neutral, but yes.
They both stall and suck, I'll take a Chris Perry match all day long, especially the one against Evans at 2014 Nationals!True, good point...I love the thought of it though!! Sorensen is awesome, Zain is Awesome...The match will be awesome!! It has to happen or I will be extremely disapointed
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I like the Cowboys and I'm not really a PSU fan at all Tognetti but let's be real when have you seen Retheford not trying to create actionThey both stall and suck, I'll take a Chris Perry match all day long, especially the one against Evans at 2014 Nationals!
When he rides to secure a point with no threat of turning a guy. Listen I'm not bashing just Zain because he is talented, I am bashing all wrestlers regardless of school that do it when they have a tough match. I realize that the landscape has changed a little and maybe wrestlers now are more evenly matched but you can't tell me that some of the guys that were relentless on offense and never got ridden say between 10 and 20 years ago could not come in today if they were still in their prime and handily beat this type of wrestling!
I was just giving the Iowa faithful a little heartburn and bad memories about that match. Plus Chris Perry has been slammed over here about his stall ride. As for the two wrestlers they were talking about, Zain is for sure pushing the action more than Sorenson. The match between them would be exciting but Collica will take Sorenson at Nationals when it counts.
Going through this thread man sure a lot of BS lol/
Long season but if going on success to date only Dieringer and Gwiz and Imar should be in the conversation.
Long season but if going on success to date only Dieringer and Gwiz and Imar should be in the conversation.
Today's wrestling officials have regressed from erring on the side of action to erring on the side of inaction as to not affect the outcome. All to the detriment of the sport. I'm possitive most coaches and fans would prefer the first option!
Funny thing (actually very sad) is the refs have to grow a pair!
Funny thing (actually very sad) is the refs have to grow a pair!
This to all the refs on here. I sat next to Bill Roths at nationals last year, he was constantly shaking his head and muttering at the non calls.
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Back to topic. Derringer is your best P4P IMHO. Also the favorite for the Hodge. He doesn't stall and looks to score, score, score. Also he can turn on top and he does.
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