Who started the Russia/Ukraine conflict?
- Thread starter gohawks50
- Start date
Russia hasn't been a communist nation for over 3 decades.
They are an oligarchic state capitalist nation - just like we are becoming under rule by Trump, Musk and the GOP.
It will be beautiful.
This is spot on. nato keeps encroaching on Russia and Russia doesn't like it.
Biden and the west were talking about Ukraine joining nato and that prompted Russia to attack.
What do you think about zelenskyy? He canceled the elections and stayed in power. how is this a democracy?
What would you say if Trump did this? Do you find it concerning that he canceled the election?
Why do you think that all these countries that lived under Russian leadership chose to go a different path when allowed to choose the path they wanted to go down in the future? Why do you think they chose protection from Russia vs choosing to go back under Russian rule?
Perhaps, if Russia wasn't invading everyone and/or treated its neighbors like shit, they wouldn't feel the need to join NATO?
Shouldn't that be good-retort? I mean, if a distinguished journalist like torbee throws around hyphens like they're Easter candy it should work for everyone-else, right? 🤔
In 1995, the Alliance carried out and published the results of a Study on NATO Enlargement that considered the merits of admitting new members and how they should be brought in. It concluded that the end of the Cold War provided a unique opportunity to build improved security in the entire Euro-Atlantic area and that NATO enlargement would contribute to enhanced stability and security for all.
Considering how much of a tizzy the entire world seems to be in re: the threat that Russia poses to the world (and Europe in particular), it appears that the expansion of NATO has been an overwhelming failure.
A clusterf**k of epic proportions, if you will.
😂
The failure is in that Ukraine wasn't allowed in soon enough. If Ukraine was already in NATO, the invasion would had never happened. Why would Ukraine want to join NATO? It's not like Russia would ever invade them.
Yet another example of some "expert" getting it all wrong...
This actually seems to be a Kiev vs. Moscow conflict dating back to the dark ages. Sort of like Moslems vs. Non-moslems.
There is an element of truth to this,.. If NATO wanted to phuck things up they may as well have played the entire hand out..
Zeleskyy is following his country's constitution. It is illegal to hold national elections in Ukraine during a period of martial law.
From a practical standpoint how do Ukrainian citizens in occupied areas vote.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/20/ukraine-elections-start-of-war-volodymyr-zelenskyy
So can we infer two things about NATO here?
First, they're smart enough to realize that admitting Ukraine would most likely have led to WW III.
And second, they're giant pussies for not doing right by Ukraine. 🤣
What? What NATO nations has Russia ****ed with? They are a shell of their pre-cold war days. A mistake, if you can call it one, was not admitting Ukraine to NATO sooner. And re-electing Trump who will hand over concessions to Russia.
I voted Russia and Putin is a dictator.
But, it’s noteworthy that NATO promised Russia no eastward expansion and then broke that promise. But, two wrongs do not make a right also. This is a war many generations in the making and putting blame solely on the scope of the last 3-5 years is not productive.
Not really.
- Mikhail Gorbachev (last Soviet leader) later stated that Western officials verbally assured him that NATO would not expand eastward when negotiating German reunification in 1990.
- Western leaders, including U.S. Secretary of State James Baker, reportedly told Gorbachev that NATO would move “not one inch eastward” beyond Germany.
- Russia argues that these statements implied a broader commitment not to expand NATO into former Soviet bloc countries.
- No legally binding treaty or formal written agreement ever prohibited NATO expansion.
- Western officials argue that the assurances only applied to Germany and not to broader Eastern Europe.
- Gorbachev himself later admitted in 2014 that “the topic of NATO expansion was not discussed at all” in 1990 beyond German unification.
@bdcolt45er answered your first question. As for Trump, I believe our constitution allows for elections during war as well as peace so he would be violating the constitution if he cancelled elections.
I realize it’s a classic “he said / she said” but it is beyond reasonable to conclude NATO expansion was discussed in detail back in the 90’s. It’s too big of a topic not to discuss.
But Ukraine had nothing to do with a broken NATO promise, why did they get attacked?
Maybe. The point is there was no agreement on it. That is a false narrative being thrown around to try to defend Putin's actions.
Two noteworthy posts above.
The west has dirty hands on this one. Anyone with a basic level of history and the ability to see clearly can acknowledge this.
Is Putin a bad man? Yes!
Is Russia wrong for invading? Yes!
Did the west poke the bear with NATO creep and the 2014 overthrow of a duly elected president? Yes!
As of 1:30 pm today, 87 posters believe Russia started the war….2 posters believe Ukraine started the war.
Trump apparently is going to keep making bigger and bigger lies until he finds the line with his gullible base…if there is one
Trump apparently is going to keep making bigger and bigger lies until he finds the line with his gullible base…if there is one
I don’t think we will ever know the full truth.
What I do know is that NATO expansion was and is so important to both sides that I am willing to guess there were lots of things documented but you and I may never know the full truth. This is a more than reasonable conclusion and certainly more reasonable than “just discussed.”
The mistake folks make on this subject is they think most folks in the US are in tune with what's going on in Ukraine or foreign policy in general.
Most aren't paying attention and a lot don't give a crap about Ukraine.
This board represents a pretty small subset of the population.
The political hit Trump will take from his alternate history take of the conflict ain't gonna hurt him much because of that. It should, but it probably won't.
The "actual" fighting was started by Russia. And yes, Putin is a dictator.
But, that does not tell the whole story. For a LONG stretch before the invasion, Putin made it VERY clear that he did not want NATO or their missiles to be in Ukraine. And Zalenski was pushing hard for that membership. Also, remember that to many Russian's (Putin included), Ukraine is part of their motherland, which would make missiles being there even harder to take.
Now, if we had sunk the boats carrying Russian missiles over to Cuba during the crisis in 1962....would anyone have blamed Kennedy for the bloackade if shots had been fired and war broke out? Was he justified to do the blockade? I know I would not have wanted a war.....but things could look radically different if he had not done the blockade.
The Ukraine war never needed to happen. Biden screwed it up. All he had to do was broker peace by having Ukraine come out as neutral and vow not to have NATO Missiles on "That" border. And, then have Russia sign a treaty not invade this neutral nation.
I almost positive that if he had done that, there would be peace right now.
But, that does not tell the whole story. For a LONG stretch before the invasion, Putin made it VERY clear that he did not want NATO or their missiles to be in Ukraine. And Zalenski was pushing hard for that membership. Also, remember that to many Russian's (Putin included), Ukraine is part of their motherland, which would make missiles being there even harder to take.
Now, if we had sunk the boats carrying Russian missiles over to Cuba during the crisis in 1962....would anyone have blamed Kennedy for the bloackade if shots had been fired and war broke out? Was he justified to do the blockade? I know I would not have wanted a war.....but things could look radically different if he had not done the blockade.
The Ukraine war never needed to happen. Biden screwed it up. All he had to do was broker peace by having Ukraine come out as neutral and vow not to have NATO Missiles on "That" border. And, then have Russia sign a treaty not invade this neutral nation.
I almost positive that if he had done that, there would be peace right now.
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again, childish view. They hurt my feelings. Nato is not a threat to Russia unless russia attacks.
Would you apply the same logic to the Cuban Missile Crisis? In other words would you have allowed the Soviets to place warheads in Cuba and simply have said "The Soviet Union is not a threat to the United States unless the Soviet Union attacks."?
That is a silly and narrow viewpoint.
Just because you think one way does not mean they don't think another way. NATO was set up as a counter to Russia. I am glad NATO exist. But, if you bury your head in the sand and don't try to understand the complexities of the region, then you will never get the other ways there are to scale back to tensions.
No, and if he is honest, he also knows that neither he or any US administration would go for that. It has already been proven, because it happened. I think Putin is a terrible person......but to not at least try and understand where that country is coming from is rediculous.
Look, Putin was wrong to invade. But, it did not need to happen. Terrible leadership by Biden kept peace from happening.
Were NATO or their missiles in Ukraine before Russia invaded? Was Ukraine in NATO before the invasion? The answer to both questions is no so that's not a justification for Putin's war.
