Why do believers go to doctors?
- Thread starter longliveCS40
- Start date
No. You just opened the door to a number of cheap shots that probably wouldn't have come across nearly as amusing as they sounded in my head. But it hurts to have to pass up a soft lob.
You'll actually have to get up off your face first, before anyone can trip you up.
I'm not dodging. I've been very clear in this thread how I perceive my body, my identity and so forth. If my heart and brains turn to worm food, then it's going to be pretty difficult to type here. That question answers itself.
Do you think, believe, presume, perceive, or otherwise deduce that you and I (and all of us) are a collection of cells that make up our individual bodies, and once the cells cease to operate as it has in your consciousness, or "dies", that there is no more of you (or me, or anyone else)?
What do you want me to explain to you? The reality is, I can't truly "explain it to you." I don't even really need to. Truth be told, you already KNOW IT! It's in you and me and everyone. It's our choice as to how we experience it and identify it. And, we all do it uniquely.
I understand how references like "God" evokes an automatic reaction toward religious mythologies, and makes "non-believers" prone to skepticism and derision. And, I suppose "the Universe" is a better contemporary choice of identification. There's really no "word" for it. It's a shame that we limit a great deal of our communication with each other, and ourselves, with words and language. There is SO MUCH that goes unnoticed when you focus on that only. We're restricted to that on this forum, I understand. But, getting in touch with your feelings, your chakras, and anything that transcends what we view as "the physical realm" is much more informative. Not to mention it's from a source you can absolutely trust- YOU!
George, what do you think?
Yes, that's how I think of it. I think there is proof that all that makes a person unique is contained in the brain. Once the brain stops functioning the person is lost and stops existing.
It sounds like you maybe have a different idea.
Yes, I know it's infinite and eternal. Using "lost" was a good choice of words.
ETA: I might agree that the "person" ceases to exist.
Last edited:
What is infinite and eternal, the person, the mind? Don't be stingy with the details. What do you think does the thinking and hoping and imagining if not the brain? And how does this alternative seat of the personality last forever? Do you think we have a soul that does the real thinking for us? Why would you expect this soul to survive death? Where would it get energy? Why doesn't the soul work to allow brain injuries to be bypassed so that the person can still think?
Is this a spiritual system you made up or can I read about it in detail someplace?
Do you think your "mind" is just your brain? You really do have a very rigid and restricted perception and understanding of your own existence and consciousness. If it can't be "explained" to you, then it's not real to you. That's a shame.
Each cell has a brain... you know that. Your body is comprised of millions of smaller "minds" as well.
Yes, that's what the mind is to me. It's all a physical function of the brain chemicals and electrical signals. Nothing spiritual about it. Nothing immortal. You appear to be unwilling to have a detailed respectful conversation so can you direct me to the theology of this belief system somewhere online?
Soul is just a word for a sort of core program. If I write a computer program that runs as designed on a computer (like I do in my body), and the hardware gets damaged, the program might not run optimally because of the damage to it's current hardware (body) but runs flawlessly once installed on a new machine. When a human body dies, the core program is transferred to new hardware, probably through some kind of advanced bluetooth type of technology that we can't fathom yet. (Tangent: that's why I'll think of a name that I haven't thought of in 20 years and my wife will say "whatever happened to ____" like 5 seconds later. Random glitches in a system we don't understand and haven't mastered.)
God is the programmer. Maybe he's a program created by someone else. Maybe he's an alien. Maybe there's many like him and he just runs the show over here in this corner of the cosmos. Maybe he died a long time ago. Maybe we don't port into a new body but live in the cloud when we die. Maybe we don't port at all and "life" as we understand it ends when the body dies. Maybe none of what we perceive as our physical world is really here, like the Matrix? I don't really care. It's cool as shit and miraculous that we're living like this at all.
Personally, I think I feel something beyond myself helping me out. I've witnessed what I can only explain to be miracles and other phenomenon that I can't otherwise explain that lead me to believe there is "something" rather than "nothing" with respect to the God question. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that I don't know all the details and am absolutely certain that I'm not calling him by his given name. I'm troubled that humans hate and kill each other over the unknowable details that are the nature and origin of this thing, creator, program, God, shared consciousness, alien, whatever. There are an infinite number of possibilities with respect to the nature and origin of whatever might have created the universe, or created the thing that created it, etc. I'm not deterred by the fact that humans currently have cracked the mystery. Humans are really dumb.
I'm "unwilling?" Why? Because I can't "explain" to you with enough detail that you get it? You need to understand that I cannot deliver this to you. You have to find it within yourself. You seem unwilling to do that. Your "mind" is not restricted to your brain matter.
And, since you don't presently know everything, it might be a good idea to refrain from saying things like "only rational thinking people would do so and so." Since you don't have it all figured out, you're not an absolute authority on what is or isn't "rational." You're implying that if people don't process information and react to circumstances the way you do, then they are irrational. It's something we all do, but I always refrain from saying things like "anyone with a brain knows that." I don't speak for anyone but me.
I enjoyed reading this story, but it seems like a lot of aspirational assumptions that don't mesh with what we know of the world. We know the base program is written in a physical form in the brain. We can image it, cut it out, erase it. While it's fun to think we have an invisible blue tooth to upload us to the cloud, without evidence it's just a plot point in a fantasy story.
I'd love it if the world worked like you or Strumm describe. But the evidence to the contrary is strong and supporting structures weak.
It would appear the reason why you can't have a respectful, detailed conversation is that you don't want to. That's on you. But if you don't recognize you are indeed speaking for all creation and not just yourself then you need a bigger mirror than I'm willing to provide. You are spouting universal absolutes about the nature of man and creation and apparently doing all that with out a lick of thought, reason, or philosophy to back you up. You have your own little messiah complex going on.
I accept that your views are based on your personal ignorance. But there is no reason to grant me such special elevated status. The knowledge I speak of is indeed available to humanity generally and so "we" is the appropriate word.
I'd say almost definitely. Might have had to spend a little time in Purgatory, you know, just to soften him up, but he's almost certainly in heaven by now. "Now" being a fairly fluid term in the cosmos.
I just feel kinda bad for you to have a life that lacks ANY kind of spiritual experience, or anything that breaks the physical plane. That's a real shame. Of course, we do create our own reality, so it could be that you've chosen that for yourself. Regardless, I know you'll finally "feel it" and not need it "explained" to you.
You lost me at invisible bluetooth. Bluetooth exists. WiFi exists. Of all the crazy assertions in the history of religion, the notion that the core program running in our flesh computer is physically ported to another computer is on the less crazy side of the spectrum as it doesn't rely solely on magic.
My "faith" in something more is personal. I don't expect nor am I trying to get you to change your beliefs. I have personal, anecdotal, and quite possibly coincidental or even delusional experiences that lead me to believe that we are connected to each other and a greater network, and that an architect or help program exists within it.
I'm comfortable with and actually embrace the fact that a huge driver for my beliefs is the strong desire to learn more, see more, get answers. I think it quite possible that when I die there will be nothing, but based on everything I've said and much more, I think there is a chance that we were created and that our existence could extend beyond what we currently see. A fantasy story, absolutely. Why not?
No, by your earlier post, He cares about some things and not so much about others.
Bluetooth requires a bit of physical technology, so if it's in our body, it's not detectable. "Why not" is exactly why we discuss the topic. As people toss out guesses we compare them to what we know of reality. You guessed the program was written on the soul. But we know that's wrong. We know the program is written in the gray matter of your brain. So now we need a new "why not". Until we have a verifiable "why not" the simplest answer should have presumption.You lost me at invisible bluetooth. Bluetooth exists. WiFi exists. Of all the crazy assertions in the history of religion, the notion that the core program running in our flesh computer is physically ported to another computer is on the less crazy side of the spectrum as it doesn't rely solely on magic.
My "faith" in something more is personal. I don't expect nor am I trying to get you to change your beliefs. I have personal, anecdotal, and quite possibly coincidental or even delusional experiences that lead me to believe that we are connected to each other and a greater network, and that an architect or help program exists within it.
I'm comfortable with and actually embrace the fact that a huge driver for my beliefs is the strong desire to learn more, see more, get answers. I think it quite possible that when I die there will be nothing, but based on everything I've said and much more, I think there is a chance that we were created and that our existence could extend beyond what we currently see. A fantasy story, absolutely. Why not?
That post was soulful! Thanks.
I almost feel fortunate for the experiences like you mentioned- "personal, anecdotal, and quite possibly coincidental or even delusional..."
The more, the better!
Thinking there is still a mind after the brain goes is like thinking the room is still lighted after the light bulb goes.
Sure it would be nice if the mind had independent existence, but the medical and scientific evidence clearly show loss of mental function with damage to brain structures.
Oh brother. Introduce another fabrication to "explain" the earlier one.
OK, I'll bite. What's "spirit"?
I don't think the program is written in a physical soul, I said soul is just a word for the core program. Of course the brain runs the program.
Unfortunately I don't think you and I have much more to debate. Perhaps the only thing, and I believe this should be the only argument humans ever have on this topic, is about the likelihood of the various guesses. Even Dawkins gives God greater than 0% chance of existing, because like all smart people, he understands that we are discussing things that are unknowable. Dawkins along with a lot of people would be shocked if after death something happened and his existence persisted.
I respect your dedication to the scientific process and as I've already stated, I'm not at all expecting to change your mind. I believe that if you had the same experiences that I have had, there is a chance that you would believe in something more as well, but I might be wrong about that too.
Persistence after death would have a natural explanation, not a supernatural one. It would require something we do not currently understand, but it would not require God.
If you read your horoscope for today and it happens to come true, that doesn't actually mean astrology makes sense.
I'm not baiting you. I lack the words to give you what you apparently need.
I'm really starting to think that perhaps some of you really are lacking any perception of spirituality. I dunno if you've pushed it out of your consciousness on purpose or what. If you've NEVER experienced anything on a spiritual level, then I can't really help you. Like natural, I feel sorry for you. I mean that... that is a shame. Maybe you're intentionally missing it. I hope you have one soon.
There ya go! Something we do not currently understand fully. That is a much better term than God... for you, anyway.
Don't get stuck on the term God and the religious/mythological associations with that word. Make it more sophisticated if you need to.
strummingram, while I find your thoughts and beliefs somewhat fascinating, you really come off as extremely sanctimonious. Most of the atheists on this board have been accused of such but they simply don't hold a candle to you. You explain yourself to a certain extent and then when the going gets tough you pull the "Well, if you don't know this for yourself, I can't explain it to you and I feel sorry for you." Maybe that isn't your intent but that's certainly the way it reads. It would be a lot cooler if you'd explain in detail what and why you believe the things you do.
Aside from that, with what I can gather of your beliefs, the original question really doesn't apply to you anyway. You don't have the typical Christian beliefs that 99% of those on the board the question was aimed at. That's not to say I don't think you should reply to the thread because it's gone in a different direction now that is probably more interesting anyway.
Aside from that, with what I can gather of your beliefs, the original question really doesn't apply to you anyway. You don't have the typical Christian beliefs that 99% of those on the board the question was aimed at. That's not to say I don't think you should reply to the thread because it's gone in a different direction now that is probably more interesting anyway.
Not like the Keanu Reaves Matrix, that's just silly. More like just our brains sitting in a vat of fluids on some mad scientist's shelf being manipulated.
Neither of the things you've mentioned seem any more silly than the other. Perhaps the Men In Black theory is the correct one?
