Any move by Fran to Butler would be a
Probably insensitive, but was that really an excuse for only participating in part of the game when he was on the court?
Why McCaffery brothers left Iowa
- Thread starter RIGHTWINGHAWK
- Start date
I agree with some of this thread, disagree with a lot of it.
Fran is a great coach. Iowa is a hard place to win; and Fran has consistently out-performed his expectations within conference. Look up the number of years at .500 or above within conference. It isn't easy to do that.
He does sometimes run odd groupings of players. He does it intentionally. He tries things. But, if you watch, for the second half of the season, they usually find what works best for that team and lean into it.
Is he a great recruiter? By getting high 5 stars? No. By consistently finding really, really good players who are not highly rated or under the radar? Yes.
The biggest hole in his resume has been the lack of success in March. I'm sure it baffles him as well. He had more success in other, smaller programs than here. It just hasn't happened. I'm sure he wishes he knew the right button to push on that.
Did he handle his own kids on the team well? That is an open question as well. They were both good role players whose skills came out best when others carried the pressure as the main scorers.
I don't know why people rag on Fran quite the way they do. Dr. Tom bore that as well (though much more deserved because of his lack of adjustments to his system as time went on). Fran plays a system that gives his team a puncher's chance in any game. It isn't a defensive system. But offense is entertaining. Take Fran's same record with a defensive system and it wouldn't be nearly as fun to watch. And the up-tempo system gives you a chance to blow out teams completely if your team clicks (where a defensive system keeps other teams close for a possible last second push .... can anyone say Kirk Ferentz?). And the offensive system allows you to make big come-backs as well.
This post is too long. But I hope Fran stays and has success for years to come. Maybe I'm an outlier. But we only need to say the word "Lickliter" to remember that we are one mistaken hire from being in the basement for years.
Fran is a great coach. Iowa is a hard place to win; and Fran has consistently out-performed his expectations within conference. Look up the number of years at .500 or above within conference. It isn't easy to do that.
He does sometimes run odd groupings of players. He does it intentionally. He tries things. But, if you watch, for the second half of the season, they usually find what works best for that team and lean into it.
Is he a great recruiter? By getting high 5 stars? No. By consistently finding really, really good players who are not highly rated or under the radar? Yes.
The biggest hole in his resume has been the lack of success in March. I'm sure it baffles him as well. He had more success in other, smaller programs than here. It just hasn't happened. I'm sure he wishes he knew the right button to push on that.
Did he handle his own kids on the team well? That is an open question as well. They were both good role players whose skills came out best when others carried the pressure as the main scorers.
I don't know why people rag on Fran quite the way they do. Dr. Tom bore that as well (though much more deserved because of his lack of adjustments to his system as time went on). Fran plays a system that gives his team a puncher's chance in any game. It isn't a defensive system. But offense is entertaining. Take Fran's same record with a defensive system and it wouldn't be nearly as fun to watch. And the up-tempo system gives you a chance to blow out teams completely if your team clicks (where a defensive system keeps other teams close for a possible last second push .... can anyone say Kirk Ferentz?). And the offensive system allows you to make big come-backs as well.
This post is too long. But I hope Fran stays and has success for years to come. Maybe I'm an outlier. But we only need to say the word "Lickliter" to remember that we are one mistaken hire from being in the basement for years.
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So what? We complain about everyone else doing it and George had a lot of connections. If that made him a better recruiter so be it.
Raveling had the advantage that Carver Hawkeye Arena was brand new. And he followed Lute; the energy was really high. Just a lot of things, along with his own personality and approach, that opened the recruiting doors.
He over played them. Played them over players with more talent. He played Connor at pg, he wasn't. By year 5 he was point forward who still could not shoot. Patrick hung around the outside, was not an asset on defense or rebounding at 6'9" with 5 years in the program. It's not a mystery to me why Jack is not coming to Iowa or why Patrick left Iowa with time left. You add a disaster on the streets of Iowa City, the fish bowl gets small fast and it does not appear that Fran is long for it either.
Raveling cheated his ass off. Ed Martin was the reason Iowa acquired so much talent.
I call bullshit. If you are going to attack George Raveling’s character you better have some real evidence. Let’s see it. By all accounts George is a highly respected man.
That is bullshit. Site some evidence, or shut up.
George Raveling is my favorite Iowa basketball coach ever. I loved him I couldn't wait for his weekly TV show and the book he would recommend. my parents knew we had to go to the library the next night.
But he did have a relationship with Ed Martin. He provided tickets to games to him. It was all documented during the investigation of Fischer and the Fab Five.
www.latimes.com
I pass no judgement
But he did have a relationship with Ed Martin. He provided tickets to games to him. It was all documented during the investigation of Fischer and the Fab Five.
Booster in Michigan Probe Reportedly Had Ties to Iowa
The athletic booster at the center of the investigation into alleged NCAA violations at Michigan also had ties to the Iowa basketball program, according to a report published Saturday.
www.latimes.com
I pass no judgement
That’s a far cry from buying players. No mention of any players from Iowa. Raveling had left Iowa long before Steve Fisher coached Michigan. The only Michigan high school basketball players Dr Tom recruited from Michigan while Fisher was there was Kenyon Murray who was in the class following the Fab 5. Fisher himself said they lost Kenyon because he didn’t want to play behind the Fab 5. The other Michigan recruit that I remember was the point guard who was not a heavily recruited player. So like I said, that isn’t evidence of any wrongdoing by George Raveling.George Raveling is my favorite Iowa basketball coach ever. I loved him I couldn't wait for his weekly TV show and the book he would recommend. my parents knew we had to go to the library the next night.
But he did have a relationship with Ed Martin. He provided tickets to games to him. It was all documented during the investigation of Fischer and the Fab Five.
Booster in Michigan Probe Reportedly Had Ties to Iowa
The athletic booster at the center of the investigation into alleged NCAA violations at Michigan also had ties to the Iowa basketball program, according to a report published Saturday.
I pass no judgement
That’s fair. For the record, I love George. He brought my childhood heroes to Iowa.
I certainly wasn’t complaining. I loved the players he brought in and I really don’t care how they ended up at Iowa.
Steve Fischer was an assistant coach at Michigan from 82-89. Similar to Bruce Pearl.
You are not arguing me. I pass no judgement. There are a lot of people more connected to CBB in that era that think otherwise. There have been plenty CFB and CBB coaches that have allegations and no convictions. Hell Bobby Knight accused John Wooden of cheating and there was never concrete evidence for that. Same deal. a shady booster liked to UCLA that Wooden had some relationship with.
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That is an apples versus oranges comparison if I ever heard one.
Also, Steve Fisher is not very credible in this instance. Of course he wants to caste dispersions on others.
It is a far cry from buying players.
Michigan was a recruiting hot spot for Iowa basketball long before Raveling and Ed Martin were involved. I mean what is the likelyhood that Ed Martin would steer kids to more than one school for money? It had to be hard enough taking money from one school to guide players. Two schools? No way he would want to make more money off of players. Can you imagine the indictments he would face if he cheated at two schools instead of just one?
Glad he chose to be completely above board in dealing with Raveling and Iowa and chose to only cheat at Michigan………
Fran is not a great coach. Or you have a much different definition of great
I was in Detroit during the mid 80s. When Iowa landed Roy Marble, out of Flint, local sportswriters were shocked. Marble was a very highly regarded recruit, and most thought that he would go to one of the MI B1G schools. MSU is famous for the Flintstones. In the same year, Iowa also successfully recruited BJ Armstrong from a nice suburb of Detroit called Bloomfield Hills. He was not quite as highly coveted as Marble, who some called "baby Jordan" in HS, but it was also a little surprising that he went to Iowa. I know nothing about Roy or BJ's recruiting, but it does line up with the rumors about Ed Martin. Just tossing out that related info, not making any accusations. Too bad Raveling wasn't as good a bench coach as he was a recruiter.
Head in the sand...? If you don't think players were getting paid under the table, you are very naive. Ronnie Harmon was getting $52K as he confirmed in a Sports Illustrated article. I believe he was quoted as saying "I had a mercedes, a bmw & a condo, $52K was nothing".
Now to think some of the greatest Hawkeye basketball players ever were not getting paid during this same era is ridiculous.
Just post the link to that Sports Illustrated article. That'll really show him. Unless it doesn't exist.Head in the sand...? If you don't think players were getting paid under the table, you are very naive. Ronnie Harmon was getting $52K as he confirmed in a Sports Illustrated article. I believe he was quoted as saying "I had a mercedes, a bmw & a condo, $52K was nothing".
Now to think some of the greatest Hawkeye basketball players ever were not getting paid during this same era is ridiculous.
(The only thing you've going to find online --and won't be in your make believe SI article-- is that he took money from Norby Walter's, his agent-to-be.)
Correct. Ronnie Harmon wasn’t getting money from Iowa.
“lines up with Ed Martin” is a bullshit statement.
Again, you are engaging in character assassination without evidence, not cool.
You seem to be on a mission to protect Raveling. All I meant was that Roy and BJ were unexpected Iowa recruits, and Martin apparently had influence in the Detroit area. You or someone else had said that Raveling didn't have Michigan recruits, and that is what was BS. I said that I didn't know anything, but those recruits were very unexpected gets at the time, especially Marble.
I never said Raveling didn’t have Michigan recruits. George was a damm good recruiter. Did you realize that Ed Horton from Springfield, Illinois was a higher rated recruit than either Roy or BJ ? Are you going to say Ed Martin helped with him too ? You shouldn’t be engaging in character assassination based on gossip.
When did I say Ed Martin was involved? Twice I have said I know nothing about recruiting, except that Marble and Armstrong were unexpected recruits from MI. That recruiting class might have been the best recruiting class ever, or at least in the last 40 years, at Iowa: big Ed Horton, Roy Marble Sr., BJ Armstrong, and Kevin Gamble. All four were great Iowa players, although Gamble really only played much in one year.
You’re trying to hard. Feel free to show the alleged ‘character assassination.
BIG ROLL EYES…
Maybe we should stop focusing on one singularly terrible hire and being so afraid it has a legit chance of happening again. Instead have faith that it was an outlier, like a tornado touching down in your backyard.
Agreed.
Although I did have that happen (see above) in Maryland and they usually never have tornados. Lost 16 trees, but thankfully nothing hit the house. Must have followed me from Iowa.
Thank God 🙏
With that said, I bet you feel pretty confident that “Lickliter moment” will never happen again? …Even if you moved to Kansas. 😉
Yes, I am not too concerned about a Lickliter moment again. If it happens at least the program is trying to move forward, and you fire the incompetent coach. I did move back to Iowa after 12 years of east coast insanity.
I wonder how much he was paid for the Rose Bowl?
Here you go.... Ronnie Harmon "ADMITTED" receiving....
s well as the Bills' second-year running back, Ronnie Harmon, who has admitted receiving $54,172.92 from Walters beginning in his junior year at Iowa. "That's not so much money," Harmon told SI. "That's over two years. What's that, $27,000 a year? I had living expenses—an apartment and a car." Because Harmon's contract falls under the jurisdiction of the NFLPA, his case will be decided by a players' association arbitrator.
https://vault.si.com/vault/1987/08/...ion-charges-of-threats-ruined-college-careers
But he was getting paid & if you don't believe Iowa boosters compensated the agent, you're blind.
Total bullshit. Stop making stuff up. Anyone can make shit up. Give us the names of the Iowa boosters or admit you are making shit up.But he was getting paid & if you don't believe Iowa boosters compensated the agent, you're blind.
So the person receiving the money isn't enough? Got it. Perhaps we can get the Western Union transfer report with the pinky promise made to transfer the money. Would that work?
He was also a head coach who was black when at the time there were not all that many of them.
Connor was 1000000000x greater than Lil Lick.
