You may want to revisit history. What he said was exactly accurate. TD had thorough-breds which is why his best team was Ravelings players. Fran inherited a train wreck
Why was Tom Davis forced out?
- Thread starter Kinnick.At.Night
- Start date
You may want to revisit history. What he said was exactly accurate. TD had thorough-breds which is why his best team was Ravelings players. Fran inherited a train wreck
Lick should refund iowa money he was given for pretending to be basketball coach
As stated, I said he was terrible because half the recruits he brought in were run and gun and the other were not. The players you didn't mention are the half that made no sense to recruit with the ones you mentioned. Reading is a skill. Acquire it
Actually you made my point, thank you. In no way should Chris Street, Jess Settles, Russ Millard, Ryan Bowen, JR Koch, Kent McCausland, joey Range play with the others mentioned. Their skills are completely different than the others
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Remove the first couple years for both, as they walked into very different situations. The results aren't that different. Dr Tom inherited a talented roster, no doubt. The idea that he was somehow supposed to sustain that is ridiculous. Lute hadn't, Alford didn't, Lick (ha ha), Fran hasn't either. Raveling's recruiting was an anomaly for Iowa.
As for his performance...sure he went to the elite 8 with Raveling's players but Raveling didn't get past the first round with 'em. Good players still require coaching. He also made it back to the Sweet 16 in his last season with a less than impressive roster. Something Fran has yet to do. Remove the first few years for each and Dr Tom still has more NCAA tourney wins than Fran.
"a program that will consistantly be in the tourney and be a round of 32 team with no serious NBA talent".
Very few college teams regularly have "serious" NBA talent. That's a straw man. (though you could list Marble, White, Cook, Uthoff, Weisy and Garza as good enough to get some level of NBA experience).
As for "consistently", a ceiling of 1 NCAA tourney win is the very kind of "consistency" that Dr Tom was let go for.
Lute did maintain a high level once he got it going at Iowa. After the BIG title and final four, Lutes reams finished second in the BIG the next 3 years and were always a threat to make a deep NCAA tourney run.
Not unless the new president is so pro sports that he fires Barta first and then hires an AD that will demand more success than McCaffery has provided. We already know that Barta has set the bar at seven wins for football, which indicates that mediocrity, done honestly and by the rules, is more than acceptable to him.
Frankly, I am more than doubtful this will happen.
"were always a threat to make a deep NCAA tourney run" is a hypothetical or perception. You could say the same thing about Dr Tom's team, Fran's team, even Alford's team (as he won the B1G tourney twice). Whether they DID or not, is what counts.
Lute did make another Sweet 16 in 1983, right before he left. But 1981, 1 and done. 1982 he won in the first round. Too bad Bobbie hated the cold, who knows what he may have done.
Coming full circle, if this is a Dr Tom vs Fran thread...the jury's still out. Fran took over a train wreck and did a nice job bringing the program back to respectability. No question. That said, until he proves otherwise his ceiling is no higher than Dr Tom's.
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When lute lost in the NCAA tourney at Iowa his last 3 years they were down to wire, 1 to 4 point or OT losses. Anybody’s game. Iowa’s last few NCAA loses were blow outs.
Most would say that the University of Iowa has already paid Lickliter enough not to coach. Now you want to send him more money?
I thought it came down to three words:
LaFrentz
Collison
Heinrich
I could be wrong though.
Hawks have trailed by 17,25,21, and 10 at halftime of their last 4 second round games.
And they were also the lower seed and underdog in 3 out of the 4 of those games.
so the blow outs are to be expected because of that? Were we a 16 seed facing a 1?
Dr. Tom Davis was forced out. That is a fact. The AD wanted
a younger man for the job.....someone with basketball fame.
When Alford was hired there was an expectancy of winning
Big Ten Championships and going to the NCAA tournament
every year. Sadly, Alford never delivered on those dreams.
a younger man for the job.....someone with basketball fame.
When Alford was hired there was an expectancy of winning
Big Ten Championships and going to the NCAA tournament
every year. Sadly, Alford never delivered on those dreams.
When you can’t be bothered to leave the golf course to meet with a recruit...its time to part ways.
Dr. Tom was good at getting to the NCAA's and winning 1 game and finishing middle of the pack in the B1G. We were generally out of the B1G race 1/2 way through the season. We were competitive, sometimes really good, but mostly ever so slightly above average. Alford was hired to get us to the next level. We are still waiting.
Lands #13 ranked player in the country, gets forced out.
Can you picture the love that Fran would get for landing the #13 player in the country?
His recruiting wasn’t nearly as bad as has been portrayed.
I'm sure it was responded to later
He knew he wasn't going to be coaching. What he knew about his replacement doesn't matter.
Yes, back then the goal seamed to be to just get 20 wins during the season and get an NCAA bid, and all would be right with the world. Then the BTT came and strength of schedule became a thing
Honestly until the SWMS Sweet 16 run, I was never that enamored with the Alford hire, either. But I guess like many others, I got too wrapped up in what SWMS was able to do in two games in the 1999 Tournament. Alford turned in some 2nd/3rd place finishes in the MVC. His resume didn't really blow my socks off. At least Fran won a few conference titles with Siena, FWIW.
lol. That never happened.
Because a change has yielded so many benefits?? Alford never made it out of the first weekend, Lickliter...., and now Fran who will never make it anywhere! All he cares about is his kids careers! Nepotism and average play...welcome to Iowa football and basketball.
Cuz we needed to hire some douche nut from Indiana to prop up his coaching career.
Chris Street, Jess Settles, Russ Millard, Ryan Bowen, Kent McCauslan, Dean Oliver, and Ricky Davis were all Iowa boys. There was that advantage and not all were top rated recruites. Davis was not a major factor in Andre’s recruitment, that was all Rich Walker. Davis did little to utilize Rucker’s talent after Woolridge left, he was the one who did the most work with Guy.
Dr Tom’s failure to communicate with “all” team members was a major issue. ie....allowing Kingsbury’s off court behavior while disciplining others for far less.
I can’t remember specifically what was said on here about the recruitment of Range. I don’t recall if it was legal issues or academic issues or both.
Range was a pretty solid recruit though. Top 50 in the country by some. Along with Range came Rod Thompson, who had already committed to Iowa shortly before Range.
I can tell you with absolute certainty, and I cannot tell you how I know so don't ask, believe or not is immaterial to me, Dr. Davis was forced out entirely by University politics and how would the Athletic Department be run and by whom. God I would like to say more, been hard remaining silent for decades. But I'm known for keeping secrets for my clients and my political tribe, whatever other flaws I may have. Unfortunately, I will take this shit to my grave, sometime in the next 18 months.
It is the AD and U President's greatest blunder, done for the worst possible reasons, covered by the most disingenuous talking points since Iowa chased off Connie Hawkins
It is the AD and U President's greatest blunder, done for the worst possible reasons, covered by the most disingenuous talking points since Iowa chased off Connie Hawkins
The recruiting issue was distraction the AD fed the public, supported by a little truth. The President was very critical of the small number of nit wits Dr. Davis brought to campus. Joey Range was probably illiterate, possibly grade school reading and writing skills and I'm guessing no math whizz. There were questions raised as to exactly how Joey Range became eligible and remained eligible.
The University administration wildly exaggerated the risk that there was something illegal about Range (no known specific facts of which existed) or that something would be later uncovered, a negligible risk unsupported by any known fact chain. Part of this hysteria was self induced to justify a preferred result.
Bowlsby was still throwing Ray Thompson in Dr. Davis' face-who was recruited ten years before Range. Ray was not dumb but he was kind of like a wild animal and unfamiliar with the little traffic signals of a civilized society, not the least of which were not loudly farting in class and smoking reefer during the day outside of Schaeffer. Joey might have read like a 6th grader but Ray had the maturity level of a 6th grader.
It was a dirty deal, but thousands of dirty deals happen every day. This one just turned out to have catastrophic implications for Iowa basketball.
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ResPectfully, Hinrich was never an Iowa a prospect, was he? Wasn’t Hinrich more an Iowa State whiff than an Iowa miss? Collison went to KU because Iowa didn’t have a BB coach ( the last year of TD) during his recruiting period. There was another Iowa kid who went elsewhere because UIowa had no announced BB coach then, either. LAFrenz was a few years earlier and not familiar with...but I was always under the impression Iowa fans disappointment with LaFrentz was magnified by his development and success in college.
Losing Lafrentz was a huge deal in the state when he was still in HS. Hayden Fry even commented on it
My immune system is failing, a little faster every day. I'm way past the point where I was supposed greet the Reeper but am proving exceedingly hard to kill. Exceedingly.
I've got at least one more football season in me and then, who knows.
Not good news. Sorry to hear. Continue to prove them wrong DSD.
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