Stats lie, always have. On court performance and results are the only thing that matter. Trying to use stats to cushion the blow of a shitty season, after which all of their best miscreants will be leaving, is desperation at it's best.
Wigginton....He Gone
- Thread starter TCOOL
- Start date
Oh...Absolutely. Still doesn’t stop clone fans from trying to debate how dominant they think ISU has been in football.
Like I said, very important spring for Prohm recruiting wise. I think Tre Jackson's film looks tremendous and he could be a hidden gem like Haliburton was, but I am not expecting much from Anderson or Leech. I do think a frontcourt of Jacobson, Young and Conditt will be very solid.
Nixon will do some things well. He forced like 40% of the turnovers CSU's defense created between his steals and charges drawn. He gets to the line frequently and shoots a high percentage there. He will need to be much smarter with shot selection than he was at CSU.
But ISU needs at least two more consistent perimeter players with Haliburton and Nixon. Could be Jackson and someone not yet on the roster. Could be Lewis or Leech. But they have to have two more guys to go with them. Curious to see who else Prohm can land.
Then how the heck was his DRtg at 111.2 his junior season and how did he only average 1.5 steals per game if the bolded is true?
I dunno, let’s go with 7 of last 10? I know court storms can bother you when you blow 20 point leads on big brothers home court where you can’t win. So close though!
The bolded is not true, I was going off of memory which failed me. But here are the actual numbers, 55 charges drawn + 40 steals = 23.4% of the opponents turnovers. I remembered the number being higher, but still a pretty big number for one player to create nearly a quarter of the opponents turnovers.
I have a feeling your defensive rating stats do not tell the whole story. One player can only defend so well on a team. The better the team defends, the better each individual can defend. For example, Tariq Owens last year on a St Johns team that was ok on defense was a 99.4 DRtg (per Fox Sports, not sure which site you use), this year he is a 84.6DRtg. I doubt he got that much better defensively (though I am sure he has improved), he just plays on a team that is that much better with team defense and therefor it is helping his rating as well. Colorado State had the 237th ranked defense according to Ken Pom last year when Nixon played there. This year ISU was a top 50 defense. Nixon's 110.5 ranking was one of the better ones on his team, but his team defended poorly. On a better defensive team, I think his number would ramp up similar to Tariq Owens or, for example, Lindell Wigginton who saw his DRtg go from 109.2 last year to 101.1 this year as ISU as a team improved a ton on defense.
I am very thankful that Iowa State has gotten to the point that a shitty season is defined as:
- a road win at a team playing for the national title
- a double digit road win at the conference champs
-two very nice road wins at Ole Miss and Oklahoma
-a Big 12 tournament title
-a six seed in the Dance
This is so much better than the McDermott era was.
But ISU loses 5 of the top 7 off that team. Depending on Nixon to be your go to guy on offense and defensive stopper is a huge reach.
Not saying you are doing that here but there are a lot of Clone fans on CF thinking he will be a major difference maker next season.
Easy little bro.
Iowa results head to head with ISU this year:
Football- W
Men's Basketball- W
Women's Basketball- W
Wrestling- W
Baseball- n/a
Yes, ISU loses 5 of it's top 7. Who knows where their defense will be next year. What I do know is both Larry Eustachy and Prohm have raved about Nixon's defense. I tend to take them at face value on those comments as neither was asked specifically about his defense in the comments I have seen. I am most certainly taking a wait and see approach in regards to next year.
With that said, I am intrigued by this thread. A question for you:
-You and others have said Prohm does not develop his players. What is your opinion on Fran? Only Baer saw his field goal percentage go up this season over last. Every other Hawk rotation player saw theirs go down I believe including Bohannon who was moved off the ball where he was supposed to be more comfortable. That move led him to have his assist numbers go down quite a bit. Garza saw his rebound numbers go down. Did these players improve? I think many did but their numbers were affected by adding players like Weiskamp who made the team better, but when discussing Prohm, that was never considered by Iowa fans that I saw.
Well, then Cyclones.com is wrong. Per his bio: "2017-18 (Colorado State)
Started 25 of the 27 games he played in, missing five contests due to a pair of injuries … led the team in scoring and was 10th in the Mountain West averaging 16.1 points … hit a team-best 66 three-pointers at a 33 percent clip … was fourth in the conference averaging 1.5 steals and second shooting 84.3 percent at the free-throw line … scored in double figures in in 22 games, leading the Rams in scoring in 15 games … drew 55 offensive fouls on opponents and had a team-high 40 steals, creating 23.4 percent of CSU’s opponent turnovers … scored a career-high 31 points at Arkansas and followed with 31 points at Oregon … topped 1,000 career points to become the 28th Ram to reach the mark when he scored 27 points at Nevada."
https://cyclones.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=9929
And the appear to have just copied it from Colorado State's website.
https://csurams.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4482
Said it 2 years ago after Monte Morris and that class graduated and sure enough they did the next year and finished last in the conference.
It is wise for you to live in the last century. There is no place for you in the present or future.
Bohannon: struggled in the noncon shooting the 3 but came around in B1G play. Fran took a kid that was ranked in the 300+ range out of HS and turned him into a 3rd team all league player by his junior season.
Garza: battled ankle injury early in conference play but had a solid year. He did hit a wall towards the end of the season and needs to make a jump forward next year.
Something you didnt mention was pretty much the same Iowa team plus Wieskamp jumped over 130 spots in AdjD from one season to the next. If you are looking at big picture development, that has to be worth something. Its still not where they need to be in terms of defense but they made substantial progress.
Working on my selective time frame to fit my opinion skills. I haven’t quite mastered it. I am learning a great deal about how it works from ISU fans.
Ranked much of the season, set the record for most road wins over top 25 teams, and had a 6 seed, a seed higher than any Iowa has had since NW St. If that is a shitty season according to Iowa fans how does Fran still have a job?
For all that NBA talent compared to Iowa’s, ISU should not only ever lose to Iowa, they should be winning by double digits. Yet, since Prohm’s been there that’s not the case.
And even other ISU fans know that calling Iowa lil bro is ridiculous. ISU hasn’t beat Iowa in one sport this year.
See this is where I get a little confused. Earlier in this thread you asked how much improvement Shayok actually made and now cite Bohannon being third team all Big Ten as proof Fran can coach. Shayok was first team All Big 12 this year. He was not all anything at UVA. Does that not count as proof of improvement and player development?
Garza did battle through an injury. So did Wigginton yet according to this thread, Wigginton regressed while you say Garza had a solid season. I agree with you on Gara, but find it interesting that no consideration was given to the fact that Lindell was out for 6 weeks by Hawk fans, they simply stated he regressed even though his stats do not reflect that.
Iowa State also improved their defense roughly 100 spots but it was with some new players, though starting 2 freshman usually does not equal better defense. Those players that did return like Wigginton, Weiler-Babb and Lard did have their defensive rating go up.
Like I said, I find the comments about Prohm odd when the exact same things are happening in Iowa City. Both coaches did excellent jobs turning the programs back around after crappy years last year. Not sure why that is not obvious to everyone, but apparently it isn't.
Prohm added 4 new starters this year and had a much better team than last year. Fran took the same team and added Wieskamp and had a much better team than last year and made it further in the NCAA tourney than Prohm did.
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I love when fans talk about top 25 wins even though those teams didnt finish in the top 25. Iowa State only beat two teams on the road that finished in the top 25. Iowa did the same thing in 2015-16, and 2016-17. It's not some sort of record breaking accomplishment.
You really can't measure top 25 wins halfway through the season. Remember when Iowa State had the upset of the decade against West Virginia and stormed the field? Yea, West Virginia finished the season 8-4 and got smoked by Syracuse in their bowl game. The field storm seems a little silly in hindsight.
Okay, we can isolate it to road wins against tourney teams and it was still outstanding.
They did have a lot of those. I still think the Big 12 was weaker than KenPom says but Iowa State had a good season. I would take a Tournament Championship any year
Big 12 was good this year, and it's tourney performance was just good.
Not very likely. Pollard will get rid Prohm if the program doesn't show growth.
Year 1: Sweet 16
Year 2: Round of 32
Fred's roster turns over
Year 3: Last in the Big 12 by 4 full games
Year 4: Round of 64, contract extension at the end of the year
Year 5: Looking very bleak
Yep. three trips to the dance, one sweet 16 and one conference tournament title in the first four years. And next year is essentially a rebuild. So we'll see.
So once Prohm got his roster together its been rebuild, first round loss in the dance and then rebuild?
Tremendous growth that is.
Pretty much, yeah it's rebuild time again. It's what teams do when when their best players declare for the draft.
