Will Nunge be an overall upgrade for the team?

[87alum87]

Just listened to a HN Podcast. The moderators agreed that while Cook is the most athletic player in the Fran era, his skill set does not pair well with the guards on the team. The argument seemed to be that since the guards aren't good at beating their man and driving into the lane, that the bigs must receive the ball farther from the basket. With Cook mostly unable to score beyond 8 feet, and his personal need to show the NBA he can shoot the mid-range jumper, he took too many low percentage mid-range shots. Meanwhile, Garza and Kreiner were able to hit the mid-range more consistently.

Assuming that Nunge has marginally improved since he last played in a game, and that he will be playing his natural position, will he be an overall upgrade for the team? I'm not suggesting he comes in as a superior athlete or individual player than TC, but I think his ability to shoot further from the hoop, and his better handles may be better for the team. And, on defense, I hope we finally get some rim protection.

 

[jasonrann]

I don't think Cook's deficiencies had anything to do with our guards. Cook wouldn't accept what he should have been doing all along, playing on the block with his back to the basket. Post entry passes are not hard. Our offense was most successful when Cook was doing this. It almost brought us all the way back in the Tennessee game. Unfortunately, we went away from it in OT.

 

[David1979]

No. Nunge is not an upgrade over Cook.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

Nunge will definitely make the team better, IMHO. The team will be better with him, than without him... He has the best handles on the team for a big. And probably the best shot. We will see how that has developed.

That is the offensive side. The bigger question will be his defense. How much has he improved? What about his attacking the glass? We need better rebounding.

One thing is for certain, his NOT playing the 3 spot will be hugely beneficial to himself, and the team. He is a 4 all the way. And he will stretch the floor with his play. That will help us out as a whole in a big way.

 

[CP84]

No. Nunge is not an upgrade over Cook.

Stats don't lie. Cook was a below average WS/40 in conference play. For all of his power dunks he averages a ton of turnovers, plays lackluster defense and can't shoot beyond 4 feet.

 

[David1979]

Stats don't lie. Cook was a below average WS/40 in conference play. For all of his power dunks he averages a ton of turnovers, plays lackluster defense and can't shoot beyond 4 feet.

Stats don't lie. Cook is far better than Nunge.

 

[Chicagohawk2019]

No

 

[IllQChawk]

No. Nunge is not an upgrade over Cook.

How do you know that?
Yes, very few players under Fran's tutelage improve much over their time at Iowa, but Jack at 6-11 or 7 feet tall has a much better skill set then the more athletic Cook.
Nunge, given the same amount of court time, will probably equal the same amount of rebounds that Tyler had, if not more, Jack has the range out to and beyond the 3 point line and having redshirted this past year to get stronger, it will require Iowa's opponents to guard Nunge all over the court instead of just around the basket.
The rumor that Cook is leaving, as of today is only a rumor. If he stays, I'm guessing his amount of minutes will diminish with the addition of Nunge. That's my opinion, Nunge has a lot of upsides to his game and I think it will work well with Garza, Kriener, and Pemsl.
For that reason I don't see much of a downside if Cook does decide to leave the program.

 

[fivecardstud14]

There's plenty of people around these parts that think Nunge is a savior. I guess they didn't watch the BTT in 2018. But he's a white guy who could theoretically stretch the floor so yeah! Fran better not play him on the wing next year.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Jack will be a 40% 3PT shooter who can get a shot off over about anyone. I don’t know if he will be better than cook but he is a lot different then cook and probably a better fit for our offense given his inside-outside game. Cook was not particularly efficient on offense, he just used a high number of our possessions to get his points.

People forget Jack was a Rivals150 talent until a late reshuffling of the rankings.

 

[owenhawk]

There's plenty of people around these parts that think Nunge is a savior. I guess they didn't watch the BTT in 2018. But he's a white guy who could theoretically stretch the floor so yeah! Fran better not play him on the wing next year.

If anyone thinks Nunge is the "savior", they are nuts. But he could be a better fit for this team offensively in that he is a big guy who can shoot outside and handle the ball and Iowa should be able to spread the floor more with him, which theoretically can isolate Garza, where we have seen he is a very effective low post scorer, as is Kreiner and Pemsl to a lesser extent.

I don't think there is anyway he plays the wing going forward, which you would think is backed up by him putting on 20 lbs.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

If anyone thinks Nunge is the "savior", they are nuts. But he could be a better fit for this team offensively in that he is a big guy who can shoot outside and handle the ball and Iowa should be able to spread the floor more with him, which theoretically can isolate Garza, where we have seen he is a very effective low post scorer, as is Kreiner and Pemsl to a lesser extent.

I don't think there is anyway he plays the wing going forward, which you would think is backed up by him putting on 20 lbs.

Correct, he will get zero minutes at SF. He’s a stretch 4/5 who will be asked to be our 5th offensive option at best. Perfect fit.

 

[mtdew_fever]

Replacing Cook is a group effort, but I think Nunge will provide something that Cook couldnt with the threat of an outside shot. The floor spacing will be less conjested on offense.

Ex - Nunge's 3 pt shot was 33%. If he hits 3 more, he would have been a 40% shooter which is considered pretty good and would command more respect.

 

[Hawkeye_311]

Stats don't lie. Cook was a below average WS/40 in conference play. For all of his power dunks he averages a ton of turnovers, plays lackluster defense and can't shoot beyond 4 feet.

The first 10 minutes of the Cincinnati game he couldn't shoot inside of 4 feet either.

 

[DanHawkPella]

The Nunge of 2 years ago wasn't better than Cook, but the Nunge of next season very well could be better than the Cook of this season.

Why?

[Note: All advanced stats from here: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/iowa/2019.html ]

• Nunge is now 250 lbs and will play with his back to the basket as often as he's facing up from 3 point land, much like Kriener and Garza do now. He's a true PF.
• Cook played best against Top 25+ teams, but when faced up with defenders he couldn't "out-athlete" he really struggled. His best attribute is his quick first step from 5 to 15 feet both facing up and with his back to the basket, and he drew a lot of fouls that way. But if that doesn't work, he's left with just a hook shot which is hot/cold or nothing. His skill level on offense is not very high and mostly one dimensional, even if that one dimension is a strong one.
• His effort on defense is inconsistent. Watch how Garza and Kriener run back on defense and ask yourself if you've ever seen Cook run that hard. He still gets caught loafing after failed offensive plays.
• He doesn't block shots or rebound (until this season) at the level of his athleticism.
  • Block % was 2.0%, behind Baer (6.2%), Kriener (2.8%), Garza (2.6%) and about equal with Wieskamp (1.9%)
  • Rebound % was better this year at 14.2%, ahead of Baer (13.9%), Kriener (12.3%), Garza (10.9%) and Wieskamp (10.2%)
• His total package isn't as impressive as his highlight dunks:
  • Win shares per 40 minutes was .122, below Garza (.166), Baer (.164), Wieskamp (.152) and tied with Kriener (.122)
  • His Player Efficiency Rating (PER) was 19.3 was below Garza (22.7), Baer (20.8) and equal to Wieskamp (19.1)
• He couldn't shoot outside, which hurt Garza's production since Cook's defender could sag off him and help double. Early in the year defenders picked him up at 20 feet and he drove past them or could feed the post. Late in the year they didn't pick him up until 14 feet and were able to slow down our other post at the same time.
• Using advanced stats from the prior year, Nunge:
  • Led the team in Block % at 4.9%
  • Was 3rd on the team in Steal % at 2.3%
  • Was 6th on the team in Rebound % at 10.0% - this needs to improve

All of our bigs suffered from our guard play, but it wasn't that they couldn't drive, it was either because they (A) couldn't shoot, so the defender could sag to deny post entry or double; or (B) they were horrible post passers (I'm looking at you Moss and Dailey).

Nunge is heavier, longer and more skilled than Cook. He can shoot A LOT better than Cook and has better post footwork and post shooting options. He is a better shot blocker and better at steals (more active than Cook). He hustles more consistently. He's a better passer and ball handler.

I like Cook and would love to see him back - he had a good year in many respects. However, there are A LOT of scenarios where Nunge helps our team be more efficient both on offense or defense imo, especially against the types of teams we need to beat to get to the next level (MSU, Michigan, Tennessee, Wisconsin, etc.)

 

[Kurt Warner]

You guys saying no have no clue how nunge will play next year.

 

[iahawks10]

I don't think Cook's deficiencies had anything to do with our guards. Cook wouldn't accept what he should have been doing all along, playing on the block with his back to the basket. Post entry passes are not hard. Our offense was most successful when Cook was doing this. It almost brought us all the way back in the Tennessee game. Unfortunately, we went away from it in OT.

Just my opinion, but I don’t know if it was as much as “Cook wouldn’t accept” playing on the block as much as it was other teams figured out how to stop him on the block quickly with a double team. I believe Cook thought he’d have a better shot at a one on one match up starting out top. It’s too bad getting to the block from the top of the key was obviously not Cook’s game.

I do wish Cook would have played more underneath and recognized the double teams quicker. I think that was something in Cook’s game that never quit developed like the coaching staff had hoped for.

 

[David1979]

You guys saying no have no clue how nunge will play next year.

True. But neither do the people saying ‘yes’. At least the people saying no have things to point to instead of just guessing.

 

[NevadaHawk]

Have to remember that Nunge sat out all last year. He may have to shake out a few cobwebs before he can reach his full potential. I have no clue as to whether he is as good or better than Cook. I think he brings a different skill set to the team and it remains to be seen if that difference helps the team. Once Nunge gets up to speed, I think what he brings to the offensive part of the game will be better. What I am really hoping for is a defensive upgrade from him. We need that more than anything.

 

[Ronman]

I just hope that Nunge has found the confidence to play with (semi)reckless abandon. I thought he was much too tentative as a freshman.

 

[David1979]

Don't get me wrong either, I like Nunge's skill set and upside. But to think he is going to be better than a Junior Cook is kinda crazy. Also, don't think they need him to be better than Cook. They just need him to play his role. Bohannon, Moss, Wieskamp and Garza will be the main focus of the team.

 

[brokenarrow73]

No. Nunge is not an upgrade over Cook.

. Well I would say he's a different skill set and will be an upgrade as far as shooting and passing. Wouldn't take much to be a better rebounder then cook either.

 

[Hawk94Mn]

I think Nunge complements our style of play more. Cook was prone to being a black hole and would usually take a long time sizing his defender up before taking him off the dribble. This style of ISO basketball can be effective if your whole team works in a similar manner, but that is not the case.

The hawks offense thrives when the ball is moving quickly and they can take advantage of everyone demanding attention, because they all can shoot. M Because Nunge can shoot the 3 and jumper he will fit great in our pick and pop game.

I don’t see how he will be worse than Cook on defense. I liked Cook but he gave of up a lot of layups simply because of his positioning. I hope Nunge can be a shot blocker too.

Pemsl will replace Cook from an offensive perspective. A guy you can throw it to late in the clock when you have nothing going and can get a decent look. He’s also a better passer than Cook. He just won’t supply the highlight play.

Because cooks biggest addition was scoring I’m not overly upset by his departure. We have plenty of guys who can score and fit our collective style of play a little more.

 

[icwesthawk]

Savior, lol. Nobody is saying he is going to be a savior for this team. He is a big body that moves well. He can shoot from outside and handle the ball a little bit, something Cook never mastered. Will he be an upgrade, time will tell but I doubt he scores as many points in 3 years as Cook did.

 

[David1979]

. Well I would say he's a different skill set and will be an upgrade as far as shooting and passing. Wouldn't take much to be a better rebounder then cook either.

He was the best rebounder on the team this year. led the team in total rebounding percentage. Grabbed 20% of defensive rebounds when he was in which is a good number. Also had a really good Assist percentage as well. But he turned it over too much.

But yes Nunge has a better jumper.

 

[David1979]

I remember when people said Jok could be easily replaced.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

There is in no way at this time enough information to say what Nunge will bring to the team after his redshirt year. His court time in his first season was completely unimpressive and he was playing out of position much of the time.
Supposedly more mature body. Hopefully playing the 4/5. Who knows what that will translate to until we see it in game action.

 

[CanadaHawk]

No. Nunge isn’t more athletic than Cook. He’s certainly not a more explosive player. But the OP podcast didn’t once mention Nunge. What was intriguing in that podcast to me was the idea that Cook’s talent didn’t mesh well with the up and coming scorers Garza and Wieskamp. That Cook hadn’t found his midrange game or the defensive intensity he needs ALL THE TIME except perhaps the 2nd half vs TN. That in order for Cook to return to the current Iowa collection of team talent, he’d need to accept being the 2nd or 3rd offensive option, become a board monster and always intense defensively. Now, this role would probably be his only pro ticket. But he hasn’t shown a willingness to accept that except perhaps earlier in the year- and that’s after the NBA evaluation. That’s why the team MIGHT be better off without him.

 

[Suterman]

I do not believe Nunge will be better next year than Cook was this past season. I will be very surprised if he is Iowa's leading scorer or rebounder. Nunge may be better defensively and he can definitely shoot better, but only time will tell. Nunge shouldn't have to play any 3, so he won't be playing out of position. What we don't know is how much has he improved? How well does he play with the other players? Has Jack bought into playing lights out on the defensive end of things? Nunge is a wild card at this point and he could be a great addition or he could be a 5 minute a game guy.

 

[87alum87]

I agree with Suterman. As the OP, I never meant to suggest Nunge was better than Cook. But, the team might be a better with Nunge in the line-up, if he is playing in his natural position. The extra weight should help with rebounds and interior defense. He might be faster and more agile than Garza, and both in the game at the same time will work well with pick and pops. Without TC as the lead dog, Weiskamp should become the leading scorer. All five players being able to space the floor will give JW more opportunities to pull-up, or drive as Garza's and Nunge's defensive man must respect them enough to follow them a little farther away from the basket. Moss might also get more opportunities to pull-up or drive.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I agree with Suterman. As the OP, I never meant to suggest Nunge was better than Cook. But, the team might be a better with Nunge in the line-up, if he is playing in his natural position. The extra weight should help with rebounds and interior defense. He might be faster and more agile than Garza, and both in the game at the same time will work well with pick and pops. Without TC as the lead dog, Weiskamp should become the leading scorer. All five players being able to space the floor will give JW more opportunities to pull-up, or drive as Garza's and Nunge's defensive man must respect them enough to follow them a little farther away from the basket. Moss might also get more opportunities to pull-up or drive.

Agree as well. This is not a "who's better?" discussion - OP was suggesting the team "might" be better with Nunge, I think it's "possible". Not a knock on Cook at all IMO.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

Runner-up Mr Basketball in Indiana. That Is quite the accomplishment. He was a late bloomer. But he is a big, and a lot of bigs take time to develop. Much more so than say a Joe T.

Most people only think of Jack Nunge from his freshman year, but forget he was playing out of position 85% of the time he was on the floor.

That is not a sample size for what he will be his next 3 years in a Hawkeye uniform.

He is almost 7feet, fairly athletic, runs the floor well, has a good stroke and great handles for a big. Throw on 25lbs of meat and the guy is going to be someone to handle.

If Nunge can work as well with Garza as Kriener does, RK will lose some minutes at the 4. Probably all of his minutes there, but a few. That'll be handled by Nunge and Pemsl, and Cook should he stay.

I am very much looking forward to it!

Jack will be a 40% 3PT shooter who can get a shot off over about anyone. I don’t know if he will be better than cook but he is a lot different then cook and probably a better fit for our offense given his inside-outside game. Cook was not particularly efficient on offense, he just used a high number of our possessions to get his points.

People forget Jack was a Rivals150 talent until a late reshuffling of the rankings.

 

[icantfindausernamethatisntused]

I remember when people said Jok could be easily replaced.

Interestingly Iowa's offense improved after Jok graduated, but the defense was much worse.

Offensive/Defensive Efficiency Rankings:

• 2017 (Jok's Senior Year):
  • Offense: 43
  • Defense: 123
• 2018:
  • Offense: 19
  • Defense: 242

 

[RocknRollface]

Just listened to a HN Podcast. The moderators agreed that while Cook is the most athletic player in the Fran era, his skill set does not pair well with the guards on the team. The argument seemed to be that since the guards aren't good at beating their man and driving into the lane, that the bigs must receive the ball farther from the basket. With Cook mostly unable to score beyond 8 feet, and his personal need to show the NBA he can shoot the mid-range jumper, he took too many low percentage mid-range shots. Meanwhile, Garza and Kreiner were able to hit the mid-range more consistently.

Assuming that Nunge has marginally improved since he last played in a game, and that he will be playing his natural position, will he be an overall upgrade for the team? I'm not suggesting he comes in as a superior athlete or individual player than TC, but I think his ability to shoot further from the hoop, and his better handles may be better for the team. And, on defense, I hope we finally get some rim protection.

Cook deficiencies are the same as 90% of big men in college basketball.

The real deficiencd in his game was that he didn't do normal big guy stuff. He didn't compete for rebounds, didn't run the court, didn't play much defense and didn't contest shots.

If you watched the big men in the title game last night you saw effort that was almost never present with Cook.

His athleticism was rarely put to use for anything besides offense and even that was sporadic.

 

[Suterman]

Interestingly Iowa's offense improved after Jok graduated, but the defense was much worse.

Offensive/Defensive Efficiency Rankings:

• 2017 (Jok's Senior Year):
  • Offense: 43
  • Defense: 123
• 2018:
  • Offense: 19
  • Defense: 242

And the irony here is that Pete was anything but a defensive specialist.

 

[owenhawk]

Cook deficiencies are the same as 90% of big men in college basketball.

The real deficiencd in his game was that he didn't do normal big guy stuff. He didn't compete for rebounds, didn't run the court, didn't play much defense and didn't contest shots.

If you watched the big men in the title game last night you saw effort that was almost never present with Cook.

His athleticism was rarely put to use for anything besides offense and even that was sporadic.

Good post. Saying some of the things I’ve been trying to say but maybe not clear as you just stated. I don’t care if Cook scores less if it meant he was doing the things we see big men do on these really good teams. That’s what Iowa needs and would better serve the team since his offensive game is limited to 5 ft from the basket.

You will get the response that he was leading rebounder but if you watched a lot of his rebounds were Defensive rebounds where he was competing for them - such as FT misses or when offense was retreating and he didn’t have to battle for them. He is a decent rebounder but could be so much more if he decided to compete regularly and use that athleticism.

 

[danny14]

I have been told by someone who watched every practice this year that Nunge will be one of the best players on the team next year. He has gained 20 lbs. and a couple inches, is a good shot blocker, and has improved his inside play...gives Garza a tough time at practice in the post. My expectations for him are high...he should have red-shirted his 1st year, but stepped in a little over his head as a freshman. He should be ready to step up next year.

 

[Kurt Warner]

And the irony here is that Pete was anything but a defensive specialist.

I was thinking this too lol

 

[Underscore2]

Just listened to a HN Podcast...

The moderators you speak of are good a creating the illusion of knowledge.

It's relatively easy to take something that is all common sense, that anyone could figure out, and then twist certain parts around to invoke some kind of emotional response. Or dream up some controversy that isn't really there, but is spoken in a way that makes them sound knowledgable.

Cook would be an asset on any team. He will be missed next year, and any deficiencies could be marginalized if the coaching effectively plays to his talents. Not exclusively. Effectively.

The simple fact is he had some bad moments, and that's all people choose to dwell on.

Fact is, Iowa has enough returning talent, and incoming talent, to be a good team next year. That really has nothing to do with Cook, but "moderators" like you speak of will continue to impart their contrived knowledge as if it's a revelation.

They also tried to marginalize Ward, which was completely laughable. I think maybe this episode was meant to be a comedy.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Guys, guys, guys...It's okay. You know why?



National championship.