Will Nunge be an overall upgrade for the team?

[Jizzer]

Those numbers do not seem right - where did you get them? Per this site, Nunge averaged about 16 min/game (and I know he had lower minutes against tougher opponents). He averaged about 45% overall shooting, with about 34% from the 3, for only about 6 ppg. His other per game averages were 3 rbs, .7 steals, .8 blocks, but for a big man he had an excellent A/T ratio of 1.1/1. All this is considering that his minutes went down in B1G games. I don't think he was anywhere as productive as Cook. Not even close.

These are Per 40 Minute stats, at Basketball reference.com. How else do you compare two players effectiveness if they aren't playing the same minutes? I'm not saying Nunge will be an upgrad, I was just surprised that their effectiveness on the court Per 40 Min, was very close to being the same, if not actually favoring a Freshman Nunge. Again 51% 2 pt FG is what i used, because Tyler didn't shoot any 3 PT FGs. Nunge's overall FG% is going to be lower, because he actually shot some 3's.

 

[BBHawk]

These are Per 40 Minute stats, at Basketball reference.com. How else do you compare two players effectiveness if they aren't playing the same minutes? I'm not saying Nunge will be an upgrad, I was just surprised that their effectiveness on the court Per 40 Min, was very close to being the same, if not actually favoring a Freshman Nunge. Again 51% 2 pt FG is what i used, because Tyler didn't shoot any 3 PT FGs. Nunge's overall FG% is going to be lower, because he actually shot some 3's.

And his minutes were not against top opponents.

 

[Jizzer]

And his minutes were not against top opponents.

Why do you think that? I thought Nunge played quite a bit during games against other teams regulars. Do you believe Cook's stats reflect playing against top opponents all the time? Did Cook not get to dominate some lower level school bigs too?

 

[BBHawk]

Why do you think that? I thought Nunge played quite a bit during games against other teams regulars. Do you believe Cook's stats reflect playing against top opponents all the time? Did Cook not get to dominate some lower level school bigs too?

Nunge's minutes were lower during the B1G season. Cook's were higher.
From their stats over tha last 10 games:
Nunge - 15 mpg, 3.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg
Cook - 29.4 mpg, 10.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg

And Cook's minutes were not mop up minutes. And teams game-planned specifically for him.

 

[Jizzer]

Nunge's minutes were lower during the B1G season. Cook's were higher.

True. I still was surprised to see how close their advanced metrics per 40 minutes were. Again, one is a Junior we deem our best players, while the other was a Freshman we deem our 8th/9th best player.

 

[BBHawk]

True. I still was surprised to see how close their advanced metrics per 40 minutes were. Again, one is a Junior we deem our best players, while the other was a Freshman we deem our 8th/9th best player.

Look at my edits.

 

[crHawkeye92]

Post entry passes are not hard.

You sure about this? Our guards definitely make it seem pretty difficult at times lol.

 

[papabeef]

Runner-up Mr Basketball in Indiana. That Is quite the accomplishment. He was a late bloomer. But he is a big, and a lot of bigs take time to develop. Much more so than say a Joe T.

Most people only think of Jack Nunge from his freshman year, but forget he was playing out of position 85% of the time he was on the floor.

That is not a sample size for what he will be his next 3 years in a Hawkeye uniform.

He is almost 7feet, fairly athletic, runs the floor well, has a good stroke and great handles for a big. Throw on 25lbs of meat and the guy is going to be someone to handle.

If Nunge can work as well with Garza as Kriener does, RK will lose some minutes at the 4. Probably all of his minutes there, but a few. That'll be handled by Nunge and Pemsl, and Cook should he stay.

I am very much looking forward to it!

dont see pemsl getting more minutes than kriener most of the time .

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I was a harsh critic of Jack as a freshman. Like many freshman he was not physically close to ready to play heavy minutes in a P5 program. The experiment with Jack at 3 was nuts, one of those head scratchers where you start with the disclaimer "I don't get paid $2 million to coach Big Ten ball but...." He was completely terrible at everything but three point shooting out on the perimeter.

But....freshmen change. They get bigger, and Jack has supposedly gotten much bigger. They learn how to play the game. They learn how their opponents play the game.

It is completely both plausible and certainly as likely as not that Jack has significantly improved. At 6'11" and 250 he will be a big 4. Jack did show some nice inside moves and shots, especially a nice little hard to block hook shot. Well, he's probably going to get better position at 250 then he did at 215 or 220. Practicing all year if he's motivated and smart he's learned how to get that better position, after all he's got Luka, Ryan or TC guarding him in practice. Throw in a decent three ball, definitely something players can learn through practice and Jack already showed a decent shooting form, and you've got a pretty effective player.

Defense is almost entirely about effort. The common criticism of TC is generally poor interior defense. TC's has never really learned, or given the effort, to try to become a good position and help defender. If Jack makes that effort, given his height, opponents may find it hard to shoot over Jack.

There's no sure bets in life but Jack could be an overall improvement at the 4.

Having presented the optimistic scenario, assuming the injuries have not fatally slowed Cordell's bounce and quickness, and TC leaves my money's on the Big C to not only start but quickly develop into a very productive player at the 4; especially if Cordell has learned how to shoot facing the hoop from 15' (jumpers and free throws).

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Something not mentioned much, Nunge showed an ability to block shots, which we don't see much from our other interior players. He did this, despite mainly playing away from the basket. I am really looking forward to seeing Nunge and JoeT play next year to see what they add.

 

[unoHawkeye]

LOL. I’m not sure why the heck you quoted my post. I was replying to the post that said Nunge only played against “end of bench” guys and I responded saying “end of bench” players are the “garbage time” players who yes are the walk ons who Nunge did not exclusively play against. I have no idea what the point of your post is because it had nothing to do with who Fran’s “end of bench” guys was.

Omg I said “other” end of the bench players, implying other players like Nunge, who obviously wasn’t a walk-on and obviously got serious minutes against other teams’ contributors. Why you continue to dwell on my poor choice of words is confounding me

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Omg I said “other” end of the bench players, implying other players like Nunge, who obviously wasn’t a walk-on and obviously got serious minutes against other teams’ contributors. Why you continue to dwell on my poor choice of words is confounding me

Wasn’t replying to you.

 

[Jizzer]

Nunge's minutes were lower during the B1G season. Cook's were higher.
From their stats over tha last 10 games:
Nunge - 15 mpg, 3.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg
Cook - 29.4 mpg, 10.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg

And Cook's minutes were not mop up minutes. And teams game-planned specifically for him.

Are these stats for Cook's soph year, last ten games?

 

[BBHawk]

Are these stats for Cook's soph year, last ten games?

Yes.

 

[Jizzer]

Yes.

I think you mean 2018/2019
Weird, I see Nunge's stats the last 10 games as .37 2pFG%(no Bueno), 83% FT, 2.7 RBPG, 4.9 PPG, .9 TO, .4 Steals, .6 Blocks, .9 assists.

Tyler as a soph, last ten games: 62% 2 PT FG, 62% FT, 7.1 RPG, 16 PPG, 2.5 assists, .4 blocks, .6 steals, 2.7 TO.

Tyler as a Junior last 10 games: 42% 2 PT FG, 49% FT, 6.5 Rebounds, 10.3 ppg, 2.2 Turnovers, .5 blocks, .7 steals, 2.1 Assists.

In summary Tyler as a Junior had a slightly better FG%, worse FT%, slightly better PPG, RPG, APG, more Turnovers, less blocks, and less steals.

Shoulder shrug time, I don't know.

 

[BBHawk]

I think you mean 2018/2019
Weird, I see Nunge's stats the last 10 games as .37 2pFG%(no Bueno), 83% FT, 2.7 RBPG, 4.9 PPG, .9 TO, .4 Steals, .6 Blocks, .9 assists.

Tyler as a soph, last ten games: 62% 2 PT FG, 62% FT, 7.1 RPG, 16 PPG, 2.5 assists, .4 blocks, .6 steals, 2.7 TO.

Tyler as a Junior last 10 games: 42% 2 PT FG, 49% FT, 6.5 Rebounds, 10.3 ppg, 2.2 Turnovers, .5 blocks, .7 steals, 2.1 Assists.

In summary Tyler as a Junior had a slightly better FG%, worse FT%, slightly better PPG, RPG, APG, more Turnovers, less blocks, and less steals.

Shoulder shrug time, I don't know.

I think you are right about the last 10 games - the links are misleading as I clicked on that from the 2017-2018 page but it looks like the 2018-2019 season.

Regardless, Cook was clearly an emphasis of opponents and was often double or triple teamed, where as Nunge never commanded that kind of attention. The stats for each are skewed because of that. Iowa will miss Cook, for sure, but I am hoping that Nunge is enough of an unknown and has improved enough to where he will be point of emphasis for other teams down the road.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I think you are right about the last 10 games - the links are misleading as I clicked on that from the 2017-2018 page but it looks like the 2018-2019 season.

Regardless, Cook was clearly an emphasis of opponents and was often double or triple teamed, where as Nunge never commanded that kind of attention. The stats for each are skewed because of that. Iowa will miss Cook, for sure, but I am hoping that Nunge is enough of an unknown and has improved enough to where he will be point of emphasis for other teams down the road.

TC did not always display a great court awareness in those double and triple teams. You don't have to pass like Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Walton to find the open man more often than TC. Not a selfish player, just more one dimensional in his court vision. The immortal Am Idol judge Randy Jackson best described TC's court vision: "The kid may be a one trick pony but its a hell of a trick".

TC was as much a liability as an asset during the last six games of the reg season. Missed free throws alone were a critical failing. That doesn't erase everything he did before that slide but it makes it easier to project improved play at the position. Just hope that comes true.

 

[Y2KG21]

NO!

 

[Packer54]

Upgrade is probably the wrong word, but he might be a better fit.

Our defense gets better automatically and out turnovers go down by 3 a game. We will also have another outside shoot which will help keep the lane free for the bigs.

 

[Bro D]

It doesn't matter if they (pemsl and nunge) are an upgrade over TC or not (they're not).. the real question is will the improvements of wieskamp and garza, plus the additions of pemsl/nunge, make up for the loss of cook? The answer is a resounding yes.

 

[unIowa]

No. Nunge is not an upgrade over Cook.

This. If he somehow happened to be, well, freaking awesome but I wouldn’t count on it.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Had a chance to sit around with a couple of guys today and kill time during a mediation. One of the other guys provided the best analysis I've heard on this topic.

If Nunge or Pemsyl, or Patrick shoot a layup its two points. If TC dunks its two points. If Nunge or Pemsyl or Patrick make the right help on defense we still get the two points without the defensive lapse that gives those two points right back to the other team.

Thought that was well put. Bro D has some good analysis. Absolutely essential, and I think probable, the other four returning starters need to lift their games. Even with the mental errors TC is leaving big shoes and filling them will be a collective effort.

 

[longliveCS40]

I will never understand the delusional hatred Iowa fans have for Tyler Cook. He was the most important player on the team and people are acting like any replacement will be an upgrade somehow.

 

[iabcuda]

Tyler isn’t a shot blocker, but he does have a physical presence he used in college. You may drive around him, but no one attempts to drive through Tyler to the hoop.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

I will never understand the delusional hatred Iowa fans have for Tyler Cook. He was the most important player on the team and people are acting like any replacement will be an upgrade somehow.

Tyler was a good player, but it is very debatable if he was the most important player. Other than dunking, I am not sure you can say he was a great player in any other aspect of the game. We won't know what Nunge brings until he starts playing in the fall.

 

[RandyTPB]

Tyler isn’t a shot blocker, but he does have a physical presence he used in college. You may drive around him, but no one attempts to drive through Tyler to the hoop.

No one does that because its a charge. Lol

 

[longliveCS40]

Tyler was a good player, but it is very debatable if he was the most important player. Other than dunking, I am not sure you can say he was a great player in any other aspect of the game. We won't know what Nunge brings until he starts playing in the fall.

Right. All he could do was dunk. He was 2nd team All Big-Ten but you aren't sure if you could say he was a great player in any aspect of the game other than dunking? What is your criteria for a great player? I think you need to lower your standards or become a Duke or Kentucky fan.

There were many MANY times that our offense was completely stagnant without Cook's ability to create. He would catch the ball on the wing and take his man one on one. We would have been blown out in a lot of games had he not been able to bale us out in this manner. As I've said previously, this doesn't mean he didn't turn the ball over too much but teams knew exactly what we were going to do when we got into this situation and he still managed to carry us in a lot of games. His size and defense were possibly the biggest key to the team. He had the size to matchup with physical opposition and the athleticism to stay with faster players without getting into foul trouble.

I think it's pretty ridiculous to say that "all he could do was dunk" and I hear it all the time on this board. He's one of the all-time leading scorers at Iowa in 3 years! He didn't ascend to that ranking by just dunking the ball.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Right. All he could do was dunk. He was 2nd team All Big-Ten but you aren't sure if you could say he was a great player in any aspect of the game other than dunking? What is your criteria for a great player? I think you need to lower your standards or become a Duke or Kentucky fan.

There were many MANY times that our offense was completely stagnant without Cook's ability to create. He would catch the ball on the wing and take his man one on one. We would have been blown out in a lot of games had he not been able to bale us out in this manner. As I've said previously, this doesn't mean he didn't turn the ball over too much but teams knew exactly what we were going to do when we got into this situation and he still managed to carry us in a lot of games. His size and defense were possibly the biggest key to the team. He had the size to matchup with physical opposition and the athleticism to stay with faster players without getting into foul trouble.

I think it's pretty ridiculous to say that "all he could do was dunk" and I hear it all the time on this board. He's one of the all-time leading scorers at Iowa in 3 years! He didn't ascend to that ranking by just dunking the ball.

I said Cook was a good player, and I am not going to list his shortcomings out of respect to him. If you think he was a good defensive player, although he improved this year, you need to watch much more carefully.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I will never understand the delusional hatred Iowa fans have for Tyler Cook. He was the most important player on the team and people are acting like any replacement will be an upgrade somehow.

Hatred? I think most people are simply looking at the stats.

 

[longliveCS40]

Hatred? I think most people are simply looking at the stats.

Which stats would those be?

 

[longliveCS40]

I said Cook was a good player, and I am not going to list his shortcomings out of respect to him. If you think he was a good defensive player, although he improved this year, you need to watch much more carefully.

Whether he was good at defense or not is irrelevant. Whether he was better at defense than the rest of the big men on the roster this season and next season is the question. He was the best front court defender on the team this season. Next year hasn't happened so it's impossible to say but I'd speculate that no-one will be as good one on one defending quality opposing big men.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Whether he was good at defense or not is irrelevant. Whether he was better at defense than the rest of the big men on the roster this season and next season is the question. He was the best front court defender on the team this season. Next year hasn't happened so it's impossible to say but I'd speculate that no-one will be as good one on one defending quality opposing big men.

He was the best front court defender the second half of the Tennessee game, when he looked like an All-American, but Kriener, Baer, and even JoeW were better interior defenders most of the time.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Which stats would those be?

The fact that he took a lot of shots away from more efficient offensive players.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

TC wasn't really a terrible man on man defender and he did take up a lot of space around the basket.

TCs problem on D was help or zone concepts. He always seemed a split second late on his decision. I don't want that to be construed as saying TC was dumb. My theory is he never really got comfortable in the zones and hence he thought rather reacted.

Although I don't think he's an NBA quality player....there really aren't very many after all, if TC is allowed to mostly guard his man without much help responsibility he could be a better defender in the NBA than college. I don't really watch the NBA but assume they still mostly play man defense.

 

[RocknRollface]

Whether he was good at defense or not is irrelevant. Whether he was better at defense than the rest of the big men on the roster this season and next season is the question. He was the best front court defender on the team this season. Next year hasn't happened so it's impossible to say but I'd speculate that no-one will be as good one on one defending quality opposing big men.

No he wasn't. Baer was significantly better. Kriener too.

He would literally jump sideways out of the way of guards driving to the hole. If he jumped at all.

He played decent defense the first half of the season and slowly progressed back to being awful by the end of the year.

Jogging back, slow to no help, making no effort to contest the majority of the time.

 

[longliveCS40]

No he wasn't. Baer was significantly better. Kriener too.

He would literally jump sideways out of the way of guards driving to the hole. If he jumped at all.

He played decent defense the first half of the season and slowly progressed back to being awful by the end of the year.

Jogging back, slow to no help, making no effort to contest the majority of the time.

Baer was not guarding the opposing team's big men. It's a ridiculous comparison. Kriener was NOT a better defender than Tyler. He was extremely foul prone due to his lack of athleticism and his tendency to reach and commit dumb fouls.

 

[RocknRollface]

Baer was not guarding the opposing team's big men. It's a ridiculous comparison. Kriener was NOT a better defender than Tyler. He was extremely foul prone due to his lack of athleticism and his tendency to reach and commit dumb fouls.

Baer did play at the 4 at times.

Kriener is a significantly better defender than Cook who is one of the least motivated and least instinctual defenders I've seen in a long time.

 

[longliveCS40]

Baer did play at the 4 at times.

Kriener is a significantly better defender than Cook who is one of the least motivated and least instinctual defenders I've seen in a long time.

"At times" and the 4 is not the 5. It's a stupid comparison.

As for Kriener, he averaged 13.9 minutes per game and committed a foul every 7.9 minutes. Cook, on the other hand, averaged 30.9 minutes per game and committed a foul every 13.25 minutes.

With his average foul rate, Kriener would have fouled out of every game he played if he played a whole game. That foul rate is being fresh because he didn't log the minutes Cook did, either. With more minutes, he would be more fatigued and his foul rate would undoubtedly increase.

I'm not claiming Cook was a lock down defender with no mental lapses or times of apathy. I am claiming he's 10 times the defender that Kriener is or that Luka is. I get it, you hate him, you think he's lazy and he didn't fulfill his potential. Try to put your bias aside and realize that he was our best player and our most important player for most of the games this season.

 

[EveryoneOnWrestlingForum]

"At times" and the 4 is not the 5. It's a stupid comparison.

As for Kriener, he averaged 13.9 minutes per game and committed a foul every 7.9 minutes. Cook, on the other hand, averaged 30.9 minutes per game and committed a foul every 13.25 minutes.

With his average foul rate, Kriener would have fouled out of every game he played if he played a whole game. That foul rate is being fresh because he didn't log the minutes Cook did, either. With more minutes, he would be more fatigued and his foul rate would undoubtedly increase.

I'm not claiming Cook was a lock down defender with no mental lapses or times of apathy. I am claiming he's 10 times the defender that Kriener is or that Luka is. I get it, you hate him, you think he's lazy and he didn't fulfill his potential. Try to put your bias aside and realize that he was our best player and our most important player for most of the games this season.

You don't commit many fouls when you don't challenge ANYONE. Cook was atrocious on defense. He took ole` defense to another level this year.

 

[Bro D]

He was the best front court defender the second half of the Tennessee game, when he looked like an All-American

I think this is where most of the criticism stems from. His varying effort levels were incredibly frustrating.

If he would have accepted and relished the role of a garbage man.. somebody who has a high motor ALL the time and uses their athleticism to block shots, rebound and defend (See: Taj Gibson), he would have had a much different legacy at Iowa and a MUCH better chance to have an NBA career. Instead his effort levels came and went and he continually tried to be a player that he wasn't.

That's not hatred, its constructive criticism. I am rooting for him big time though.