Xavier Foster

IowaPride95

All-Conference
May 18, 2016
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I dont Understand Iowa State fans bagging on Iowas program right now. Over the last two years we have more wins, and more NCAA tournament wins. I dont think what we’ve done is impressive by any meams, but ISU is right there with us. Finally, their last two recruiting classes have been just like ours, what am I missing?
I think your point is a fair one. Prohm's resume over the last three years is not much better than Fran's during that time, but it is years 1-3 of Prohm and years 7-9 of Fran. I hope by year 8 of Prohm we are not missing the Dance, but a fan can hope for whatever they want, it does not mean they will get it. I think ISU fans are looking at the programs as ISU having gone to the Dance 7 of the last 8 years when comparing them and obviously that means they are using Hoiberg's success too which is not a reflection of what Prohm can or cannot do.
I will say this though the primary difference between ISU and Iowa, and it is a big one, is you cite recruiting classes being similar (and I understand this was prior to Foster so we will just ignore him) and that is kind of true, Fran and Prohm have had similar prep recruiting classes. What you do not mention is Prohm continuing Hoiberg's use of transfers to bolster the prep recruiting and fill gaps. He has taken Shayok and Jacobson who have been key pieces. Hopefully Johnson, Nixon and Bolton will be as well. This is where Fran is failing IMO. He is ignoring key chances to upgrade talent because of his dislike, or whatever it is, of transfers. Instead of using the spot he was saving for Foster on a mid-year transfer, he will likely use it on a spring prep or even possibly leave it empty for a 2021 kid. If he is not going to be able to land 4 star caliber recruits each year, he really needs to land impact transfers to bolster his roster IMO and that is what Prohm has continued to do that Hoiberg started. Again, I agree with your point, years 1 through 3 of Prohm had not been starkly better than the last three years of Fran, but I think Fran largely ignoring transfers is going to be the defining difference that will hold Iowa back.
 
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Jizzer

HR All-State
Oct 9, 2002
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I think your point is a fair one. Prohm's resume over the last three years is not much better than Fran's during that time, but it is years 1-3 of Prohm and years 7-9 of Fran. I hope by year 8 of Prohm we are not missing the Dance, but a fan can hope for whatever they want, it does not mean they will get it. I think ISU fans are looking at the programs as ISU having gone to the Dance 7 of the last 8 years when comparing them and obviously that means they are using Hoiberg's success too which is not a reflection of what Prohm can or cannot do.
I will say this though the primary difference between ISU and Iowa, and it is a big one, is you cite recruiting classes being similar (and I understand this was prior to Foster so we will just ignore him) and that is kind of true, Fran and Prohm have had similar prep recruiting classes. What you do not mention is Prohm continuing Hoiberg's use of transfers to bolster the prep recruiting and fill gaps. He has taken Shayok and Jacobson who have been key pieces. Hopefully Johnson, Nixon and Bolton will be as well. This is where Fran is failing IMO. He is ignoring key chances to upgrade talent because of his dislike, or whatever it is, of transfers. Instead of using the spot he was saving for Foster on a mid-year transfer, he will likely use it on a spring prep or even possibly leave it empty for a 2021 kid. If he is not going to be able to land 4 star caliber recruits each year, he really needs to land impact transfers to bolster his roster IMO and that is what Prohm has continued to do that Hoiberg started. Again, I agree with your point, years 1 through 3 of Prohm had not been starkly better than the last three years of Fran, but I think Fran largely ignoring transfers is going to be the defining difference that will hold Iowa back.
Man, had something really long typed up, but Rivals is stupid and the page shut down.
Fran sucks at Transfers no doubt, I'm not happy with our recruiting classes or teams play. I'd be fine with we fired Fran. I just don't understand how ISU fans are so happy with their program under Prohm.
15-16
Transfers: Ashton and Weiler Babb, coming before Prohm.
Recruits: Noskowiak, Ernst, and Carter. Awful and none did anything.
Team itself goes 23-12 and completely underperforms winning two NCAA tourney games against 12 and 13 seeds. Team led by all Hoiberg guys, that should have gone a lot further. Niang, Morris, Thomas, Mckay, Burton, and Nader. Are you kidding me?
16-17
Transfers: Jackson(good), Bowie, Holden, and Kasongo.
Recruits: Long, Lard, and Young. Very below average. Young may do something before he graduates, but I personally think he is not a good player.
Team goes 24-11 with again, Hoiberg guys, Wins big 12 tourney to save season IMO, wins one game in NCAA tourney against 12 seed.

17-18
Transfers: Beverly(bad), Brase(bad),Talley(bad), Shayok(great), Jacobson(good).
Recruits: Wiggs (great recruits, good career, left with 0 tourney wins in 1.5 season played), Lewis(average).
Team goes 13-18, bad year with Prohms first with all HIS guys.

18-19
Transfers: Nixon(average)
Recruits: THT (great recruit, played one year and left, 0 tourney wins), Tyrese (ok recruit, great find, likely 0 tourney wins as he'll leave after this year), Griffin #42 SF(we will see), Conditt #45 PF(we will see).
Team goes 23-12, big 12 tourney once again is highlight of season, no NCAA tourney win. Is this good?

19-20
Transfers: Bolton #206, Johnson NR.
Recruits: Grill 175, Jackson 209, Leech gone, Anderson gone.
Team 1-1, likely on outside looking in of tourney, much like Iowa I might add. They will lose Nison, Tyrese and Jacobson.

20-21
Recruits: Foster 59th(Nice get damnit), Blackwell 150(good recruit), Walker 290, and Dubar 360. This class could be nice, but really early.
Team: Key players: Griffin, Young, Bolton, Conditt, Lewis, and Maybe Foster. I'm sorry, this doesn't look like an NCAA Touney team to me again.

I'm not saying all this to bash ISU, I'm very unhappy where Iowa sits right now, I'm just confused why ISU fans are so optimistic. I think this is just the difference between fan bases. I think this is reflective in how games are attended as well. Iowa fans, if Iowa isn't good, find something else to do. ISU fans, no matter how bad ISU is, they will go to every game. Why? I don't really get it, I personally, find something better to do. This is then some sticking point for ISU fans about having 600 more fans in attendance per game as some winning argument. I, personally, think it's kind of pathetic you can't find something better to do then watch below average bball.
 

anon_bb9wlf9kj42py

HR All-American
Nov 28, 2005
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Team itself goes 23-12 and completely underperforms winning two NCAA tourney games against 12 and 13 seeds.

Team goes 24-11 with again, Hoiberg guys, Wins big 12 tourney to save season IMO, wins one game in NCAA tourney against 12 seed.

Team goes 23-12, big 12 tourney once again is highlight of season, no NCAA tourney win. Is this good?

I'm not saying all this to bash ISU, I'm very unhappy where Iowa sits right now, I'm just confused why ISU fans are so optimistic. I think this is just the difference between fan bases. I think this is reflective in how games are attended as well. Iowa fans, if Iowa isn't good, find something else to do. ISU fans, no matter how bad ISU is, they will go to every game. Why? I don't really get it, I personally, find something better to do. This is then some sticking point for ISU fans about having 600 more fans in attendance per game as some winning argument. I, personally, think it's kind of pathetic you can't find something better to do then watch below average bball.
To your highlighted points above:
1. It's impossible to underperform by going to the Sweet 16 at ISU. It's happened 5 times in the program's history. Great season.

2. Again, going to the tourney, winning the Big 12 tourney, and winning a game in the tournament is a good season at ISU.

3. Again, they won the Big 12 tourney. They made the tournament. Had a bad game in the tournament against a bad matchup team with a great big guy. Always been a weakness for ISU.

The three seasons above were 4, 5, and 6 seeds. That's a great regular season regardless of the record.

The recruiting class next year is currently 14th. They'll take another kid probably. What isn't there to be excited about currently?

Finally, supporting your team is pathetic? Well yes, I think that would perfectly demonstrate the difference in fanbases then.
 
Nov 9, 2019
13
4
3
Man, had something really long typed up, but Rivals is stupid and the page shut down.
Fran sucks at Transfers no doubt, I'm not happy with our recruiting classes or teams play. I'd be fine with we fired Fran. I just don't understand how ISU fans are so happy with their program under Prohm.
15-16
Transfers: Ashton and Weiler Babb, coming before Prohm.
Recruits: Noskowiak, Ernst, and Carter. Awful and none did anything.
Team itself goes 23-12 and completely underperforms winning two NCAA tourney games against 12 and 13 seeds. Team led by all Hoiberg guys, that should have gone a lot further. Niang, Morris, Thomas, Mckay, Burton, and Nader. Are you kidding me?
16-17
Transfers: Jackson(good), Bowie, Holden, and Kasongo.
Recruits: Long, Lard, and Young. Very below average. Young may do something before he graduates, but I personally think he is not a good player.
Team goes 24-11 with again, Hoiberg guys, Wins big 12 tourney to save season IMO, wins one game in NCAA tourney against 12 seed.

17-18
Transfers: Beverly(bad), Brase(bad),Talley(bad), Shayok(great), Jacobson(good).
Recruits: Wiggs (great recruits, good career, left with 0 tourney wins in 1.5 season played), Lewis(average).
Team goes 13-18, bad year with Prohms first with all HIS guys.

18-19
Transfers: Nixon(average)
Recruits: THT (great recruit, played one year and left, 0 tourney wins), Tyrese (ok recruit, great find, likely 0 tourney wins as he'll leave after this year), Griffin #42 SF(we will see), Conditt #45 PF(we will see).
Team goes 23-12, big 12 tourney once again is highlight of season, no NCAA tourney win. Is this good?

19-20
Transfers: Bolton #206, Johnson NR.
Recruits: Grill 175, Jackson 209, Leech gone, Anderson gone.
Team 1-1, likely on outside looking in of tourney, much like Iowa I might add. They will lose Nison, Tyrese and Jacobson.

20-21
Recruits: Foster 59th(Nice get damnit), Blackwell 150(good recruit), Walker 290, and Dubar 360.
You are making this harder than it needs to be. Iowa State currently has the 14th ranked recruiting class in the country. Their best class ever. The Iowa fanbase would be excited too. In the past 3 of 4 years Prohm has landed near five star players (Wigginton, THT, Foster) supplemented with several top 150 players (Lewis (bust), Griffin, Haliburton, Blackwell) and a few high-level transfers (Shayok, Jacobsen, Bolton).

That is 9 extremely high-level players in the past four recruiting cycles. Doesnt even include George Conditt who the fanbase is likely most excited about.

A future frontcourt of Conditt, Foster, Griffin and Blackwell is enough to get excited about.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
26,297
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To your highlighted points above:
1. It's impossible to underperform by going to the Sweet 16 at ISU. It's happened 5 times in the program's history. Great season.

2. Again, going to the tourney, winning the Big 12 tourney, and winning a game in the tournament is a good season at ISU.

3. Again, they won the Big 12 tourney. They made the tournament. Had a bad game in the tournament against a bad matchup team with a great big guy. Always been a weakness for ISU.

The three seasons above were 4, 5, and 6 seeds. That's a great regular season regardless of the record.

The recruiting class next year is currently 14th. They'll take another kid probably. What isn't there to be excited about currently?

Finally, supporting your team is pathetic? Well yes, I think that would perfectly demonstrate the difference in fanbases then.
As Iowa fans, expectations for basketball are foreign concepts. That might be what's generating some of the confusion.
 

Hkfan23

HR MVP
Nov 12, 2019
1,519
1,242
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ISU is the better program right now. Accept it. I have. Now their fans should accept Iowa football is way better. And wrestling for them is laughable. Until we have a change basketball will be where it is. I guess how far has Prohm gone in the tourney? I have no clue. But my guess is listening to ISU fans they are final 4 every year. I think Iowa has won what 17 out of 20 in the last few years in major sports. At least they are the bear.
 

Jizzer

HR All-State
Oct 9, 2002
775
857
93
To your highlighted points above:
1. It's impossible to underperform by going to the Sweet 16 at ISU. It's happened 5 times in the program's history. Great season.

2. Again, going to the tourney, winning the Big 12 tourney, and winning a game in the tournament is a good season at ISU.

3. Again, they won the Big 12 tourney. They made the tournament. Had a bad game in the tournament against a bad matchup team with a great big guy. Always been a weakness for ISU.

The three seasons above were 4, 5, and 6 seeds. That's a great regular season regardless of the record.

The recruiting class next year is currently 14th. They'll take another kid probably. What isn't there to be excited about currently?

Finally, supporting your team is pathetic? Well yes, I think that would perfectly demonstrate the difference in fanbases then.
Are you an ISU or Iowa fan? Your message reads a lot of ISU.
Let me dive in a bit more here, as apparently it wasn't clear in my previous message. Everything I posted was referring to Prohm, who runs the program.
Sweet sixteen's are nothing to scoff at, that's not what I was saying, however he walked into an absolute goldmine those first two years. Every single ISU fan was talking Final Four, etc etc, and that team lost in the sweet sixteen. That team lost 12 games. You and I could have coached that team to the sweet sixteen, I'm not kidding, and most ISU fans were disappointed how it ended. They won't admit it now, but it's the truth.
The following year, was a good season, but again, you and I could have coached that team to a tournament win.
Having tourney seeds, which I feel was completely irrelevant to what I was saying by the way, of 4,5, and 6 seeds, while only winning 3 games total in the tourney, actually proves my point that he underperformed when it comes to the NCAA tourney. Which by the way, whether anyone likes it or not, is the measuring stick for how your season is ultimately judged.
"They made the tournament. Had a bad game in the tournament against a bad matchup team with a great big guy. Always been a weakness for ISU." Isn't this Prohms fault? I'm confused that he gets an excuse, again.

Finally, their recruiting class is now 14th because of Foster committing, but 25 of the top 100 kids haven't committed yet, around 40 of the top 150. Being ISU isn't getting any of those kids, I have a feeling that saying 14th, right now, is just a little silly. In fact, their average ranking per recruit, falls 53rd. Feels about as irrelevant as saying ISU was ranked when we played them.