Casser has zero quality wins in his career. He made a world team against abysmal competition. Maybe he'll be good, but he has literally proven nothing.
2017 NCAA National Championship
- Thread starter JustWrestle133
- Start date
Good post. PSU is primed for a run at titles into the foreseeable future, so I don't think Cael sits the better wrestler at this point unless it works for the team in the out years.
If Hall wrestles this fall, I'll donate to the GG fund.
Mayes will be a redshirt senior this upcoming 2016-2017 season.
He has the best upper weight training partners in the country, but I do think a lot of PSU folks are jumping the gun on him. I see him as a huge question mark. Might be an AA might go 0-2.
Cutch is not a 197. He's short for 184 as it is imo. Nevills had a pectoral injury while lifting. Hardly something you'd call injury prone. Stuff happens. Injury prone is chronic knee, back, and shoulder problems.
Or, it's not being able to wrestle for two straight years. The "reasons" don't really matter. Again, IF Nevills is healthy, I still think he's about a year away from points at Nationals. I HOPE, AGAIN I HOPE, he is healthy when the season rolls around.
Not sure who is jumping the gun.
It ain't me.
As I said, I think McCutcheon might move up to 197 this year. No, he is not a 197 pounder, but guess who else wasn't? Morgan MacIntosh. It's very common under Cael that we don't necessarily put everyone where they truly belong, sometimes guys go up for the good of the team, or down...remember, Shak Rasheed could not pull the weight to go at 165, which was why Morelli was there in the first place.
Suriano is going to be real stingy to score on, even as a freshman. With that said, I don't think his offense is there yet to be a high AA lock. I'm thinking a ceiling of low AA to a higher probability of going something like 1-2 at nationals.
Pretty decent Scuffle last year. He beat Palacio if I'm not mistaken. Also had a nice little run at UWW juniors last year.
He beat Ramos 4th at 165 in 2015
Pinned England Rd of 12 in 2015
And beat Palacio 4th at 157 this year
I know this is a Hawkeye board, but I feel like Gilman is getting a little too much benefit of the doubt about repeating so easily. The way I remember his match with Tomasello, I felt NATO was controlling most of the match and was more aggressive. If he stays at 125 and I have to bet my last $100 on the winner I think I'm leaning NATO.
The point being that obviously this isn't a slam dunk either way and NATO has beat Gilman more than Gilman has NATO. So to make the point relating to the thread topic, I don't think you can count a champ at 125 if NATO is still there.
You might want to check up on your facts Tennessee Jack.
OK so NATO won the Big 10 and NCAA title and was undefeated as a freshman right? I assumed since he was seeded higher going into the NCAA's this year that he built Gilan at least twice overall. I'm wrong I'm guessing?
I'll bet any amount of money you would like if those to meet in the finals next year Gillman wins. Micic is the one that scares me.
Gillman is 6-2 vs NATO in college.
I think you were watching a different match then I was.
Gillman is 6-2 vs NATO in college.
I think you were watching a different match then I was.
I can remember losses to waters, Peters, Gillman and Dance. I'm not sure who else.
Dropped a match to him one year at Fila junior trials but still won the overall series.
That was it, and this year his only loss was to Gillman again...if NATO is at 125 next year, I'll put my money on Gillman.
Cortez is probably going to be an upgrade from Conaway.
Gulibon AAed 2 years ago @ 133 and wasn't that far from AAing this year. Jimmy if he remains healthy most likely AAs.
Joseph at 165 will be about as difficult to beat as Nolf was this past season. Joseph in finals is not something that will shock me.
McCutcheon would have been top 8 this year if he had remained healthy. Next year whether McCutchen or Rasheed, Penn State has an AA at 184.
Not sure what to expect at 197. Cassar is intriguing, but he was not enrolled in classes this semester. Supposedly he wrestles McIntosh tough. Stout's father was a multiple AA at Clarion he also supposedly progressed I the room.
Nevills? If he had not missed 2 seasons of progression I think he would have been very good this past season. Right now he has serious catching up to accomplish.
Gulibon AAed 2 years ago @ 133 and wasn't that far from AAing this year. Jimmy if he remains healthy most likely AAs.
Joseph at 165 will be about as difficult to beat as Nolf was this past season. Joseph in finals is not something that will shock me.
McCutcheon would have been top 8 this year if he had remained healthy. Next year whether McCutchen or Rasheed, Penn State has an AA at 184.
Not sure what to expect at 197. Cassar is intriguing, but he was not enrolled in classes this semester. Supposedly he wrestles McIntosh tough. Stout's father was a multiple AA at Clarion he also supposedly progressed I the room.
Nevills? If he had not missed 2 seasons of progression I think he would have been very good this past season. Right now he has serious catching up to accomplish.
Cortez won so reason to be optimistic.
JG is an enigma. Very difficult to predict his results.
Joseph is really good. I think he will AA, how high?
A healthy MM splits matches with a bunch of guys in the low AA-R16. Rasheed has a good skill set but need to see him @184 before I would lock either as an AA. Not saying they won't.
197 is a big?
Nevills- no reason to think the guy has forgotten how to wrestle during the injury plagued 2 years he's been on campus. Needs to stay healthy to see what he can really do.
We'll see Joseph at his new Beefed up weight this weekend....Hall, Valencia, Massa. Etc.
This tournament is absolutely loaded.
Speaking of leightweight problems. Michigan has assad, Youtsey and Micic all at 25. I'm sure a couple other schools wouldn't mind having one of them.
This tournament is absolutely loaded.
Speaking of leightweight problems. Michigan has assad, Youtsey and Micic all at 25. I'm sure a couple other schools wouldn't mind having one of them.
Micic entered at 60k/132 lbs. been discussed some whether he will be 125 or 133. Not like he was cutting all year and this is an offseason bump up for him. Seems he is going 133, but a lot can change I suppose.
The Nevills concern isn't that he forgot how to wrestle. It is the progression the kids make from physically wrestling every day in the room and the experience of the competition against other talented kids. It's that progression that he needs to do some catching up with.
McCutcheon when healthy has managed to beat Dudley several times and of course Sammy. McCutcheon also when healthy has some peculiar losses. My thought process on Rasheed has 2 prongs, but is simple. If the gas tank issue is strictly weight loss related then he has shown he can wrestle competitively against upper level kids and that should translate to 184. Also, since I think McCutchen is not bad and very close to AA caliber - if it turns out Rasheed beats Matt out then the expectation of AA is definitely not out of line.
Joseph - I've heard it from Patakey, Taylor, Brown, Quentin and other guys who frequently attend practice that Joseph is the real deal and I am anxious to see him compete.
We shall see how things play out.
Right now I am more concerned with my lack of anything consistent when swinging a golf club.
If this is how PSU finishes, I like our chances of finishing higher quite a bit if we stay healthy and wrestle a solid tournament. Of course, tOSU and Okie State will have a say, too, as could a couple of others.
Gilman was 4-0 against Tomasello at Junior World Team Trials. 6-1 and 7-2 in 2013, 8-4 and 3-2 in 2014.
They have wrestled three times in college, a 2-1 win in the 2015 dual meeting, a 3-2 loss at the 2015 Big's, and a win by fall at the 2016 NCAA's.
I guess I am corrected with authority LOL. I still maintain that it isn't a shoe in for Gilman to beat NATO given how close it has been between them.
How about this... sig bet for 12 months. I take NATO and you take Gilman. If one wins the NCAA championship the person who is betting on them gets to choose the signature for a year for the loser? I'll take a 50/50 bet if you are willing?
I've seen Suriano enough to think this - I believe he will be better than Nico was a freshman and has a shot to be better than Nico as a senior. Whether he places higher is another question. His defense is at a crazy level and from what I've seen, he may be better than Nico in the other two positions. To give an anecdotal example, I saw Nick wrestle Vitali Arujau twice this year and Arujau didn't really get close to taking him down in either match. Arujau wrestled Brian Courtney this weekend and was taking down Courtney at will. Suriano's feet defense is at another level. Iirc, he was taken down one time in four years of high school competition.
The op did a great job on his analysis. I think he overestimated a couple of Iowa wrestlers and underestimated a couple of PSU guys but that's sort of "we'll see" stuff. Bonus points are the big thing. I believe PSU will have 4-5 guys that will get significant bonus points and three (Zain, Nolf and Nickal) that will pile them up. If Penn State can stay healthy, which they really haven't done over the last six years, those bonus points will add up to another championship.
Oh, I think Cortez might have been overrated a bit. I think he's a 5/6 guy, but who knows? Getting to the razor-thin area.
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Total wild card. His upside coming out of high school seemed tremendous. Wrestled in a middling, at best, high school program. Didn't qualify for states as a junior. Came back as a senior and went 47-0 to win an NJ championship. Was a really light 197 his redshirt year but adjusted to college grappling pretty well. Did very well for an inexperienced freestyle wrestler last summer, then got hurt. He could shock either way this year.
If this is how PSU finishes (2 champs, 3 finalists, 7 AAs, 2 R12s, 1 R16) they will most likely win the title. That's 130+.
Everyone overestimates how their teams (including PSUs) will ultimately do come NCAA time. There's lots of other schools with lots of talented wrestlers to knock all the top teams off. You're not going to have 4 teams with 120+ points next year.
