Anti-vaccination stronghold in North Carolina hit with state's worst chickenpox outbreak in 2 decade

[rocketclone]

The Somalians would not vaccinate and ended up with a measles outbreak a few years ago in mpls area.

So if you don't believe in vaccination because of religious beliefs do we like steralize them so they cant reproduce?

How would you handle punishment?

Bad behavior? Premarital sex? Talk about opening up a can of worms.

The Somalis were targeted by anti-vax/pro-disease groups as soon as they arrived, scaring them into not vaccinating.

No major or major-ish religion prohibits vaccinating.

So take the religion out of it. It's a personal freedom.

You dont address the punishment for not vaccinating.

If a woman gets pregnant before she is able to care for a child should we exclude insurance benefits?

Lots of crazy things have been mentioned.

I am all for vaccinations, but not everyone is.

 

[Hawk and Awe]

The Somalians would not vaccinate and ended up with a measles outbreak a few years ago in mpls area.

So if you don't believe in vaccination because of religious beliefs do we like steralize them so they cant reproduce?

How would you handle punishment?

Bad behavior? Premarital sex? Talk about opening up a can of worms.

You took bad behavior and punishment more literally than I meant it.

The punishment I referred to was that they should have to pay for the damage their unwillingness to vaccinate cost. We aren’t willing to do that as a country in a similar way we want to give health care treatment to people that can’t afford it

Those costs are then absorbed by the system. It’s BS and the worst of it is these anti-vaccine people are getting others sick in addition to the financial damage.

 

[rocketclone]

The Somalians would not vaccinate and ended up with a measles outbreak a few years ago in mpls area.

So if you don't believe in vaccination because of religious beliefs do we like steralize them so they cant reproduce?

How would you handle punishment?

Bad behavior? Premarital sex? Talk about opening up a can of worms.

You took bad behavior and punishment more literally than I meant it.

The punishment I referred to was that they should have to pay for the damage their unwillingness to vaccinate cost. We aren’t willing to do that as a country in a similar way we want to give health care treatment to people that can’t afford it

Those costs are then absorbed by the system. It’s BS and the worst of it is these anti-vaccine people are getting others sick in addition to the financial damage.

I have all the vaccination goodies I can get. If a person is vaccinated against chicken pox, then they wont get chicken pox so the people not getting vaccinated are the ones suffering.

When I was young I ended up with measles, mumps and chickenpox. No vaccine back then.

There really wasn't any hardships except I had to miss school for a week.

 

[Hawk and Awe]

I have all the vaccination goodies I can get. If a person is vaccinated against chicken pox, then they wont get chicken pox so the people not getting vaccinated are the ones suffering.

When I was young I ended up with measles, mumps and chickenpox. No vaccine back then.

There really wasn't any hardships except I had to miss school for a week.

I agree that doesn’t sound like a hardship, but what about when it’s an infant?

The reason we want to immunize against these diseases isn’t about 1 week of school.

 

[rocketclone]

I have all the vaccination goodies I can get. If a person is vaccinated against chicken pox, then they wont get chicken pox so the people not getting vaccinated are the ones suffering.

When I was young I ended up with measles, mumps and chickenpox. No vaccine back then.

There really wasn't any hardships except I had to miss school for a week.

I agree that doesn’t sound like a hardship, but what about when it’s an infant?

The reason we want to immunize against these diseases isn’t about 1 week of school.

Infants would be at risk for a short time but running around punishing people for exercising their freedom of choice just seems like a waste of time and money.

I wish we could prevent a lot of things, especially with infants, but it just isnt feasible. Unfortunately bas things happen at times.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

You all may think putting mind control nano-bots into your blood stream to give you Autismis a good idea, but no sane thinking person does.

Damn...I'm itchy.

 

[Hawk and Awe]

Infants would be at risk for a short time but running around punishing people for exercising their freedom of choice just seems like a waste of time and money.

I wish we could prevent a lot of things, especially with infants, but it just isnt feasible. Unfortunately bas things happen at times.

You might be focusing to much on the word punishment. I think they should be held responsible and liable for the damage they cause. Their freedom of choice is infringing on the liberty of others. That’s pretty foundational, forefathers type stuff.

I’m really not educated enough to say right now if I’d actually vote to require immunizations. I definitely acknowledge it’s complicated, but this problem feels like it’s growing. However, that feeling may be entirely artificial and created by the opposition, but their fears seem more plausible to me.

 

[Rifler]

The Somalis were targeted by anti-vax/pro-disease groups as soon as they arrived, scaring them into not vaccinating.

No major or major-ish religion prohibits vaccinating.

I'm familiar with the anti-vaxer movement but I've never heard of groups that are actually pro-disease,... Do we really have people out there that favor the proliferation of disease?....

 

[IamHawkeye]

I'm surprised this was in Asheville. Yeah, the surrounding areas are full of hillbillies, but the city itself is very progressive.

You don't know that many anti-vaccine parents are middle class?

 

[JWolf74]

I'm familiar with the anti-vaxer movement but I've never heard of groups that are actually pro-disease,... Do we really have people out there that favor the proliferation of disease?....

If you are anti vaccine, then you are pro-disease and death of children.

 

[Wendy79]

I'm familiar with the anti-vaxer movement but I've never heard of groups that are actually pro-disease,... Do we really have people out there that favor the proliferation of disease?....

There are still people who have chicken pox parties, etc. So, yes, there are pro-disease people.

I've also seen posts on Facebook where people claim they would go into hiding if smallpox ever got loose so they wouldn't have to get the vaccine, and they would rather get it "naturally."

There are people who refuse antibiotics, instead opting for colloidal silver (including in nebulizers) or whatever BS essential oils they can think of.

There's also the whole freebirth movement that is gaining steam, where women refuse any/all medical intervention the entire pregnancy and birth - no prenatal ultrasounds, no test for group B strep, home birth (or outdoor birth), no vitamin K shot, no heel prick, nothing. This resulted in the death of a fetus about a month ago...amniotic sac broke, baby wasn't ready to come out, mom was GBS positive, uterus got infected, they finally went to the hospital when the mother wasn't feeling well and had dark/stinky discharge (nevermind the baby hadn't moved for a couple of days at this point), and the baby died.

There is an incredible number of anti-science/anti-medicine people out there. There are a few Facebook pages I follow that expose these people (names have to be redacted) and CPS and/or the employer (in cases where the person works at a hospital) are notified when needed.

 

[Rifler]

There are still people who have chicken pox parties, etc. So, yes, there are pro-disease people.

I've also seen posts on Facebook where people claim they would go into hiding if smallpox ever got loose so they wouldn't have to get the vaccine, and they would rather get it "naturally."

There are people who refuse antibiotics, instead opting for colloidal silver (including in nebulizers) or whatever BS essential oils they can think of.

There's also the whole freebirth movement that is gaining steam, where women refuse any/all medical intervention the entire pregnancy and birth - no prenatal ultrasounds, no test for group B strep, home birth (or outdoor birth), no vitamin K shot, no heel prick, nothing. This resulted in the death of a fetus about a month ago...amniotic sac broke, baby wasn't ready to come out, mom was GBS positive, uterus got infected, they finally went to the hospital when the mother wasn't feeling well and had dark/stinky discharge (nevermind the baby hadn't moved for a couple of days at this point), and the baby died.

There is an incredible number of anti-science/anti-medicine people out there. There are a few Facebook pages I follow that expose these people (names have to be redacted) and CPS and/or the employer (in cases where the person works at a hospital) are notified when needed.

OK,... So you're saying they become pro-disease by extension,... I can buy that...

 

[hawkifann]

Infants would be at risk for a short time but running around punishing people for exercising their freedom of choice just seems like a waste of time and money.

I wish we could prevent a lot of things, especially with infants, but it just isnt feasible. Unfortunately bas things happen at times.

I love personal freedom. At my barest bones politically, I'm small government, moderate state/local government and big personal freedom guy. But there are things that we decide as a society that are sort of best for everybody. I'm not free to kill. I'm not free to steal. Well, technically, I am, but those decisions have consequences.

We had polio, measles, mumps, smallpox all but eradicated in first world nations 15-20 years ago. That was a big win for society, as we have any number of higher-risk groups for whom the disease isn't just a week of fever and inconvenience, it's life-threatening. In all seriousness, if you're an anti-vaxxer, then when you're doing The Wave at Kinnick, just wave the one finger and be honest about it.

 

[hawkifann]

You might be focusing to much on the word punishment. I think they should be held responsible and liable for the damage they cause. Their freedom of choice is infringing on the liberty of others. That’s pretty foundational, forefathers type stuff.

I’m really not educated enough to say right now if I’d actually vote to require immunizations. I definitely acknowledge it’s complicated, but this problem feels like it’s growing. However, that feeling may be entirely artificial and created by the opposition, but their fears seem more plausible to me.

You can't explicitly require vaccines unless you document in a list of exceptions for all the people who are immuno-compromised and can't have them....plus it would be one of those rules that's almost unenforceable. But the reality is, those who are anti-vax and don't get sick don't get sick because 3-4 generations of Americans were vaccinated and basically knocked the disease back to nothing. Now it's making a comeback because there are more people deciding it's their free right to put immuno-compromised patients at higher risk. It's selfish.

 

[hawkifann]

OK,... So you're saying they become pro-disease by extension,... I can buy that...

Just as there are extreme groups for everything else in life, there are extremists who believe that if we would drop the pharma and all and let diseases progress "naturally", that some would die, but then those remaining would be naturally immune. It sounds awesome. We can knock out a superbug by letting it wipe out 1/3 of the world's population every few decades.....when instead we have the knowledge to handle it now.

 

[shank hawk]

While no one can deny that fascism as a political ideology took a major hit during WWII, if HROT is any indicator fascism of the medical sort appears to be thriving in the Land of the (asserted) Free and the Home of the (alleged) Brave.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

If you are anti vaccine, then you are pro-disease and death of children.

A 2013 report noted that "About 11,300 newborns die within 24 hours of their birth in the U.S. each year, 50 percent more first-day deaths than all other industrialized countries COMBINED.", another report earlier this year reported that American kids are 70% more likely to die before adulthood than kids in other rich countries.
https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/more-us-babies-die-their-first-day-68-other-countries-6C9700437
https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/1/8/16863656/childhood-mortality-united-states

1 in 6 children in the US has a developmental disability, 54% of children have a chronic illness, 1 in 36 ASD.

This....in the country with the most aggressive child vaccination schedule in the world. The country with the best hospitals, best doctors, best scientists.

 

[fsu1jreed]

A 2013 report noted that "About 11,300 newborns die within 24 hours of their birth in the U.S. each year, 50 percent more first-day deaths than all other industrialized countries COMBINED.", another report earlier this year reported that American kids are 70% more likely to die before adulthood than kids in other rich countries.
https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/more-us-babies-die-their-first-day-68-other-countries-6C9700437
https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/1/8/16863656/childhood-mortality-united-states

1 in 6 children in the US has a developmental disability, 54% of children have a chronic illness, 1 in 36 ASD.

This....in the country with the most aggressive child vaccination schedule in the world. The country with the best hospitals, best doctors, best scientists.

Did you really try to link newborn deaths to vaccines????????

Never mind the fact that in the article itself it explains the disparity:

“Many babies in the United States are born too early. The U.S. preterm birth rate (1 in 8 births) is one of the highest in the industrialized world (second only to Cyprus). In fact, 130 countries from all across the world have lower preterm birth rates than the United States,” the report reads.

Teen births are partly to blame, the report says – echoing other research that has shown this. The U.S. has the highest teenage birth rate of any industrialized country.

“Teenage mothers in the U.S. tend to be poorer, less educated, and receive less prenatal care than older mothers. Because of these challenges, babies born to teen mothers are more likely to be low-birthweight and be born prematurely and to die in their first month. They are also more likely to suffer chronic medical conditions, do poorly in school, and give birth during their teen years (continuing the cycle of teen pregnancy),” the report says.


How about these numbers? Around 1 percent of children born in 2014 will die before they reach the age of 20, compared with 11 percent of children born in the early 1930s...........much of that is directly attributed to vaccines.

 

[BelemNole]

Did you really try to link newborn deaths to vaccines????????

Never mind the fact that in the article itself it explains the disparity:

“Many babies in the United States are born too early. The U.S. preterm birth rate (1 in 8 births) is one of the highest in the industrialized world (second only to Cyprus). In fact, 130 countries from all across the world have lower preterm birth rates than the United States,” the report reads.

Teen births are partly to blame, the report says – echoing other research that has shown this. The U.S. has the highest teenage birth rate of any industrialized country.

“Teenage mothers in the U.S. tend to be poorer, less educated, and receive less prenatal care than older mothers. Because of these challenges, babies born to teen mothers are more likely to be low-birthweight and be born prematurely and to die in their first month. They are also more likely to suffer chronic medical conditions, do poorly in school, and give birth during their teen years (continuing the cycle of teen pregnancy),” the report says.


How about these numbers? Around 1 percent of children born in 2014 will die before they reach the age of 20, compared with 11 percent of children born in the early 1930s...........much of that is directly attributed to vaccines.

Don't feed the troll/lunatic.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

While no one can deny that fascism as a political ideology took a major hit during WWII, if HROT is any indicator fascism of the medical sort appears to be thriving in the Land of the (asserted) Free and the Home of the (alleged) Brave.

Yes medical fascism is alive and well on HROT. Also I think that the perception is that only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction question vaccines. Although you and I know that if you look at the odds based on a 2016 poll, we know nearly 1/4 of all people who supported either Clinton or Trump believe that it's probably true that vaccines cause autism.

Then we learn that according to another study the vaccine hesitant are middle and upper class and....gulp....educated.

Many people are not interested in sharing their convictions publicly but the time isn't right. When the government starts mandating the schedule for adults and takes away all exemptions, the time will be right.

 

[fsu1jreed]

Yes medical fascism is alive and well on HROT. Also I think that the perception is that only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction question vaccines. Although you and I know that if you look at the odds based on a 2016 poll, we know nearly 1/4 of all people who supported either Clinton or Trump believe that it's probably true that vaccines cause autism.

And roughly the same amount of the population can't find the Pacific Ocean on a map, so that's not saying a lot. Why you didn't break it down by party? I think we all know why.

Then we learn that according to another study the vaccine hesitant are middle and upper class and....gulp....educated.

I'll just leave these here:

 

[ferentzin04]

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Why you didn't break it down by party? I think we all know why.

Sure, nearly 1/3 Trump, nearly 1/5 Clinton. And only less than 1/2 of the Clinton supporters felt confident that vaccines don't cause autism, along with just over 1/5 of Trump supporters.

 

[BelemNole]

Yes medical fascism is alive and well on HROT. Also I think that the perception is that only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction question vaccines. Although you and I know that if you look at the odds based on a 2016 poll, we know nearly 1/4 of all people who supported either Clinton or Trump believe that it's probably true that vaccines cause autism.

Then we learn that according to another study the vaccine hesitant are middle and upper class and....gulp....educated.

Many people are not interested in sharing their convictions publicly but the time isn't right. When the government starts mandating the schedule for adults and takes away all exemptions, the time will be right.

 

[JWolf74]

A 2013 report noted that "About 11,300 newborns die within 24 hours of their birth in the U.S. each year, 50 percent more first-day deaths than all other industrialized countries COMBINED.", another report earlier this year reported that American kids are 70% more likely to die before adulthood than kids in other rich countries.
https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/more-us-babies-die-their-first-day-68-other-countries-6C9700437
https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/1/8/16863656/childhood-mortality-united-states

1 in 6 children in the US has a developmental disability, 54% of children have a chronic illness, 1 in 36 ASD.

This....in the country with the most aggressive child vaccination schedule in the world. The country with the best hospitals, best doctors, best scientists.

You're trying to make a point about vaccines by talking about the infant mortality rate. Brilliant. this is like arguing Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time because bananas grow on trees.

 

[ferentzin04]

this is like arguing Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time because bananas grow on trees.

That checks out. I’d like to see anyone prove it wrong.

 

[Hawk and Awe]

You can't explicitly require vaccines unless you document in a list of exceptions for all the people who are immuno-compromised and can't have them....plus it would be one of those rules that's almost unenforceable. But the reality is, those who are anti-vax and don't get sick don't get sick because 3-4 generations of Americans were vaccinated and basically knocked the disease back to nothing. Now it's making a comeback because there are more people deciding it's their free right to put immuno-compromised patients at higher risk. It's selfish.

Would it be that hard though? You have a criteria for exceptions and applications are submitted to a review board. You, me and a couple doctors could put that together in a day.

Is it important enough to warrant that? I’m not sure, but the process isn’t that overwhelming.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You're trying to make a point about vaccines by talking about the infant mortality rate. Brilliant. this is like arguing Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time because bananas grow on trees.

I know, it's completely outrageous that I would even think such a thing. You feel so compelled to claim the mortality possibilities have so obviously been completely eliminated, yet fail to stake similar claim on the other outrageous statement "1 in 6 children in the US has a developmental disability, 54% of children have a chronic illness, 1 in 36 ASD." Maybe that's a clue to how you truly feel about the morbidity aspect. Just an observation that I felt was worth mentioning.

The flu shot vaccination rate for pregnant mothers is 35%, Pregnant mothers who do choose to vaccinate will often get flu and dtap. Have those two vaccines been studied together on pregnant mothers to see if they have any effects on preterm births (since it's been pointed out to me that teen births are only "partly to blame"), or anything else for that matter? Even the Fluzone Quadrivalent insert says safety has not been established for pregnant mothers and infants less than 6 mo, and flu vaccine inserts state they should not be given to a pregnant women unless "clearly needed". Never mind the recent study that indicated pregnant mothers who received the flu vaccine are nearly 8 times more likely to miscarry.

Infants receive 20 different vaccines by their first birthday, 12 by 4 months. The Hep b vaccine, administered w/in 24 hours from birth is even recommended for 4.4 lb babies and up. Has that early schedule been tested for any possible effects on infant mortality, or anything at all for that matter? I'd be interested to see the evidence you have that would back your Peyton Manning - banana comparison.

 

[artradley]

CHICKENPOOOOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dose of reality:

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I'm familiar with the anti-vaxer movement but I've never heard of groups that are actually pro-disease,... Do we really have people out there that favor the proliferation of disease?....

Ummm...yes. They have chicken pox parties to pass it around. I think they should have small pox parties and polio parties as well.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

"1 in 6 children in the US has a developmental disability

*cough*bullshit*cough*

 

[naturalbornhawk]

*cough*bullshit*cough*

You must have trust issues with the CDC as well. I don't blame you.

https://www.disabilityscoop.com/2011/05/23/cdc-1-in-6/13146/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21606152

 

[tarheelbybirth]

You must have trust issues with the CDC as well. I don't blame you.

https://www.disabilityscoop.com/2011/05/23/cdc-1-in-6/13146/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21606152

I sure don't. Funny that you do, though. Directly from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db291.htm

Key findings
Data from the National Health Interview Survey

• During 2014–2016, the prevalence of children aged 3–17 years who had ever been diagnosed with a developmental disability increased from 5.76% to 6.99%.
• During this same time, the prevalence of diagnosed autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability did not change significantly.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Never underestimate human ignorance

I agree....
"In one of the largest studies to date, an international consortium led by researcher in the Dan L Duncan Comprehensive Cancer Center at Baylor College of Medicine reported an inverse relationship between a history of chicken pox and glioma, a type of brain cancer, meaning that children who have had the chicken pox may be less likely to develop brain cancer.

They found a 21 percent reduced risk of developing glioma with a positive history of chicken pox. Furthermore, they identified the protective effective was greater in higher grade gliomas.

The large study validates earlier studies showing this link, Bondy said. "It provides more of an indication that there is some protective benefit from having the chicken pox," she said. "The link is unlikely to be coincidental.""

.....but good thing they were saved from the dreaded chickenpox. So I wonder how many other undiscovered inverse relationships with other cancers and other serious disease there are?

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2016...4jXKMb2AMAeJmTUD9V4cB2zPDx4mC0wbMjRn56JW_0UPk

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cam4.682

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I agree....
"In one of the largest studies to date, an international consortium led by researcher in the Dan L Duncan Comprehensive Cancer Center at Baylor College of Medicine reported an inverse relationship between a history of chicken pox and glioma, a type of brain cancer, meaning that children who have had the chicken pox may be less likely to develop brain cancer.

They found a 21 percent reduced risk of developing glioma with a positive history of chicken pox. Furthermore, they identified the protective effective was greater in higher grade gliomas.

The large study validates earlier studies showing this link, Bondy said. "It provides more of an indication that there is some protective benefit from having the chicken pox," she said. "The link is unlikely to be coincidental.""

.....but good thing they were saved from the dreaded chickenpox. So I wonder how many other undiscovered inverse relationships with other cancers and other serious disease there are?

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2016...4jXKMb2AMAeJmTUD9V4cB2zPDx4mC0wbMjRn56JW_0UPk

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cam4.682

Wow! That's HUGE!

Let's see...the incidence of gliomas is around 2.5/100,000. A 21% drop puts the risk at....a hair under 2.0/100,000. Meanwhile, in otherwise healthy children aged 1-14 years, the mortality rate for chicken pox is estimated at 2 deaths per 100,000 cases. The fatality rate in the general population...6.7/100,000. The risk for complications including pneumonia and encephalitis is 1/50.

Yeah...genius...let's give people chicken pox to potentially prevent a very rare form of cancer in a tiny number of people. Kill many more with chicken pox to prevent a few deaths from brain cancer. Brilliant. Really. I mean it. Seriously.

Of course, I didn't consider that not a single one of the children who died from chicken pox grew up to get brain cancer...100% prevention rate for gliomas there. So...yeah...there's that silver lining.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Wow! That's HUGE!

Let's see...the incidence of gliomas is around 2.5/100,000. A 21% drop puts the risk at....a hair under 2.0/100,000. Meanwhile, in otherwise healthy children aged 1-14 years, the mortality rate for chicken pox is estimated at 2 deaths per 100,000 cases. The fatality rate in the general population...6.7/100,000. The risk for complications including pneumonia and encephalitis is 1/50.

Yeah...genius...let's give people chicken pox to potentially prevent a very rare form of cancer in a tiny number of people. Kill many more with chicken pox to prevent a few deaths from brain cancer. Brilliant. Really. I mean it. Seriously.

Of course, I didn't consider that not a single one of the children who died from chicken pox grew up to get brain cancer...100% prevention rate for gliomas there. So...yeah...there's that silver lining.

So again, I wonder how many other undiscovered inverse relationships with other cancers and other serious disease there are? Just a thought.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

So again, I wonder how many other undiscovered inverse relationships with other cancers and other serious disease there are? Just a thought.

You just keep thinking, Butch. That’s what you’re good at. /sarcasm

 

[Chewback]

So again, I wonder how many other undiscovered inverse relationships with other cancers and other serious disease there are? Just a thought.

Correlation is not necessarily causation.

 

[BelemNole]

So again, I wonder how many other undiscovered inverse relationships with other cancers and other serious disease there are? Just a thought.

Yep, when you get schooled by actual numbers resort to wild speculation- a true anti-vaxxer

 

[tarheelbybirth]

So again, I wonder how many other undiscovered inverse relationships with other cancers and other serious disease there are? Just a thought.

So stop vaccinating. Because I wonder how many "undiscovered inverse relationships" exist with smallpox...polio...hell, let's stop worrying about rabies! I'm sure having rabies prevents some other serious disease in the future.

In fact, I guarantee that having rabies will almost always prevent every other serious disease/cancer that exists. Why don't you test that theory. It will also prevent autism in dogs and cats...another silver lining.