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Are we witnessing the beginning of the end of the country created by our founding fathers?

That’s not critical thinking. Quite the opposite.

Actually, people who vote a certain way because they don’t have convictions based on anything AND they are afraid to be seen as different than what’s popular is the opposite of critical thinking.

As a Christian, this is absolutely true.
 
Actually, people who vote a certain way because they don’t have convictions based on anything AND they are afraid to be seen as different than what’s popular is the opposite of critical thinking.

As a Christian, this is absolutely true.
Agreed. So, you clearly understand my argument. I accept your concession.
 
To a large extent I agree with you, but there have also been tremendous areas of improvement that have coincided with America’s steady descent into secularism.

I would add the advent of TV evangelism also corrupted religion in this country, providing us the leaven of the Pharisees. As Jesus quoted the prophet Isaiah, and I’ll paraphrase: “Many Americans honor God with their mouths, but their hearts are far from Him.”
Amen!
Evangelical Christianity and its churches and their leaders chase for money is the equal of the moneychangers working in the temple of Christ's time. What America needs now is Christ to come back and run the moneychangers out of the temple!
Sadly, these modern-day pharisees work their crime under the protection of our Constitution. Truly I say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. .
 
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No sir, I think you’re the confused one. In some translations 1 Peter 2:9 Christians are considered “a peculiar people”. Which deviates from what the secular world considers norms.
😆

1 Peter 2:9 does not repudiate my point. Keep trying. This is getting good.
 
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1 Peter 2:9 does not repudiate my point. Keep trying. This is getting good.

It absolutely does when it comes to politics which changes as often as the wind blows. You took me for conceding some point to you that you were trying to make.

When in actuality I was trying to practice Mathew 10:14. Trust me, my nature is closer to Peter.
 
Amen!
Evangelical Christianity and its churches and their leaders chase for money is the equal of the moneychangers working in the temple of Christ's time. What America needs now is Christ to come back and run the moneychangers out of the temple!
Sadly, these modern-day pharisees work their crime under the protection of our Constitution. Truly I say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. .
Jesus clearly repudiated the idea that His kingdom and ministry were to be advanced through government. It is therefore a complete farce of an idea that American government has ever been “Christian.” In fact, the Bible clearly states Satan is in charge of all governments, as evidenced by Jesus’s temptation in the desert in which Satan announced he would give Jesus all the kingdoms of the world if Jesus would bow down and worship him. This is very much allegorical and very much has direct application today.

Regardless, Jesus founded one Church, and that is most definitely not the church of Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, or any other charlatan leading an apostate church. So, a lot of these idiots doing this and that in the name of Jesus most likely aren’t in Jesus’s purview in terms of admonition and correction, anyway. As the saying goes: God doesn’t spank the devil’s children.
 
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It absolutely does when it comes to politics which changes as often as the wind blows. You took me for conceding some point to you that you were trying to make.

When in actuality I was trying to practice Mathew 10:14. Trust me, my nature is closer to Peter.
I’m not questioning your faith or Bible literacy. I’m simply repudiating the idea that trends in voting among (e.g) evangelicals reflect anything other than groupthink. In other words, stating you’re voting for Trump because you’re against abortion and gays is not novel or reflective of critical thinking. It’s about as status quo in evangelical circles as it gets.
 
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It absolutely does when it comes to politics which changes as often as the wind blows. You took me for conceding some point to you that you were trying to make.

When in actuality I was trying to practice Mathew 10:14. Trust me, my nature is closer to Peter.
And I was being facetious about the “conceding” part. 😉
 
Should it really be a surprise the constitution was set up that way? The founding fathers were very wary of a strong central government. The intent was to set up a union where power was concentrated in the states. I just don't see where that makes it inherently flawed.

This is a very distorted lens to look through, and ignores most if not all of the debates by the founding fathers.
 
Their rhetoric is getting more unhinged and dangerous. Back to my original point earlier.
Rhetoric is just that…rhetoric. Granted, it absolutely can be dangerous and inspire catastrophe, but that still does not rise to the level of barbaric brutality and evil perpetrated by the Taliban.

Relax, Chris. 😁
 
I’m not questioning your faith or Bible literacy. I’m simply repudiating the idea that trends in voting among (e.g) evangelicals reflect anything other than groupthink. In other words, stating you’re voting for Trump because you’re against abortion and gays is not novel or reflective of critical thinking. It’s about as status quo in evangelical circles as it gets.

You’re half right. I’m anti-abortion, due to my own experiences of being a young father and “allegedly” helping to fund one, plus the damage I saw it inflict emotionally.

As far as the gay thing, that’s their perspective and I can’t cast stones as I’m also a sinner, homosexuality isn’t my sin of choice but I’m a sinner nonetheless.

That being said, I find it fascinating as it seems to me you’re almost saying anyone that would have chosen to vote for one over the other isn’t capable of critical thinking which in itself is astonishing.

Also, I’m not sure if I’m totally considered an evangelical. You brought up two issues but I also like lower taxes, believe in school choice and not a huge fan of the death penalty (although can be persuaded in certain situations).
 
Religion is important for America because that is what people across the country were able to agree on and belong to a common group.

Religion should help build and unite the community. Religion teaches us common values that we all should agree on. You dont even have to believe in a god to agree that we shouldn't steal, cheat, kill, etc. The act of believing in god is less important than the sense of community, belonging to a common group, and having good morals.

In our world we are encouraged to create our own reality. The truth doesn't matter when you can create your own reality. Social media allows us to find others who will go along with that demented reality.
 
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That being said, I find it fascinating as it seems to me you’re almost saying anyone that would have chosen to vote for one over the other isn’t capable of critical thinking which in itself is astonishing.
That is not what I’m saying at all. As a currently non-practicing Catholic, I understand how important the abortion issue is for many. And I genuinely respect the sincere conviction of many hearts who feel compelled to vote based on that issue alone. On a personal note, if I could have genuinely believed that (e.g.) casting a vote for Donald Trump would have saved every unborn baby that has been aborted since the election, and that all children who would have otherwise been aborted would be loved for and taken care of, I would have done so. Even in the face of everything I despise about a Donald Trump presidency, I would have still voted for the man based on that single issue and outcome. Unfortunately, the notion that outcome was even remotely possible violated every part of my intellect that is logical, and therefore I voted according to what I believed to be pragmatic and most efficacious in producing the best result for the United States of America. To this day, I still do not regret any vote I cast against Donald Trump and the current GOP.

As far as single-issue voters who voted for Donald Trump from a sincerely convicted heart are concerned, I find no fault with them, even in disagreement. Furthermore, I do not believe because someone is a single-issue voter means they are incapable of critical thinking. My one and only point is that voting based on the status quo of supporting unborn children and traditional marriage is not critical thinking, as you suggested. It’s simply not (regardless of sincere conviction). The fact you threw out a lot of window dressing to obfuscate this point tells me you understand this also.

God bless you, swag. 😁
 
I don't think it's such a stretch of what we once thought would be impossible...

This woman won't likely win but others like her are... We have people in the military, police, politicians, legal community, etc that are supporting these idiots. Sometimes with insurrectionist force and their numbers are growing.

Cultist Wisconsin AG Candidate Vows To Prosecute Doctors And Hospitals For Not Prescribing Horse Paste​

March 31, 2022 Republicans, Trump cultists


The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reports:


We’ll be fine…we’ve been through worse
 
That is not what I’m saying at all. As a currently non-practicing Catholic, I understand how important the abortion issue is for many. And I genuinely respect the sincere conviction of many hearts who feel compelled to vote based on that issue alone. On a personal note, if I could have genuinely believed that (e.g.) casting a vote for Donald Trump would have saved every unborn baby that has been aborted since the election, and that all children who would have otherwise been aborted would be loved for and taken care of, I would have done so. Even in the face of everything I despise about a Donald Trump presidency, I would have still voted for the man based on that single issue and outcome. Unfortunately, the notion that outcome was even remotely possible violated every part of my intellect that is logical, and therefore I voted according to what I believed to be pragmatic and most efficacious in producing the best result for the United States of America. To this day, I still do not regret any vote I cast against Donald Trump and the current GOP.

As far as single-issue voters who voted for Donald Trump from a sincerely convicted heart are concerned, I find no fault with them, even in disagreement. Furthermore, I do not believe because someone is a single-issue voter means they are incapable of critical thinking. My one and only point is that voting based on the status quo of supporting unborn children and traditional marriage is not critical thinking, as you suggested. It’s simply not (regardless of sincere conviction). The fact you threw out a lot of window dressing to obfuscate this point tells me you understand this also.

God bless you, swag. 😁

It’s fine with me, I live with not having my guy won. Plus it’s ALWAYS easier to play offense rather than defense. I do believe you called me a partisan hack, which maybe I am more of now since I am a voter (I hadn’t voted before 2020).
 
This is a very distorted lens to look through, and ignores most if not all of the debates by the founding fathers.
Well sure. But the Federalists were advocating for the passage of the constitution, i.e. the creation of a republic at all. At the time many wanted a very loose collection of states with very little power at the federal level. It’s hard to put the context of our current government and try to envision if the framers of the constitution could even begin to envision what the future was going to hold.
 
And, bringing this back to the OP, the masses and positions in society of the people who do support this insanity is what leads me to believe we are at a tipping point...
Already long ago tipped. Lots of tells just in this thread.
 
Well sure. But the Federalists were advocating for the passage of the constitution, i.e. the creation of a republic at all. At the time many wanted a very loose collection of states with very little power at the federal level. It’s hard to put the context of our current government and try to envision if the framers of the constitution could even begin to envision what the future was going to hold.
And the Federalists saw the FAILURE of the first government set forth by "the United States of America"....So they convened the Constitutional Convention, replaced the Article s of Confederation with a Constitution of the United Staes. They designated powers to the FEDERAL government, reserved the balance of powers to the states and created a national court to settle the disputes that would undoubtedly arise. And because of this document, this is where we are today......and there shouldn't be any "do-overs" ...we as a nation will constantly review our past works and "modernize" our Constitution to fit today's needs. This is how civilizations move on. We don't choose a year gone by and unilaterally decide, "That's where we need to be!"
 
America has been in a decline for decades. We're just in the final death throes now.
No, not even close. America has evolved! Tat is exactly why this nation is the envy of people all over the world! We adjust. We don't castigate our shortcomings, we live with them and move on! AMERICANS understand that the sun rises every morning giving us a new day! The American spirit looks forward to the next sunrise.......it doesn't settle for what happened a week ago. We bury our dead and We celebrate their life!
 
Well sure. But the Federalists were advocating for the passage of the constitution, i.e. the creation of a republic at all. At the time many wanted a very loose collection of states with very little power at the federal level. It’s hard to put the context of our current government and try to envision if the framers of the constitution could even begin to envision what the future was going to hold.
You're severely downplaying the Federalist position at the founding of the nation. There were plenty of very highly respected and powerful people advocating for a strong central government.

And of course it's hard to imagine even the most brilliant minds of the day being able to forsee the expansion of the the nation and government, and no less important the advances in technology, 250 years out. If they had that ability they would probably have been a little more proactive on the slavery issue.
 
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You're severely downplaying the Federalist position at the founding of the nation. There were plenty of very highly respected and powerful people advocating for a strong central government.

And of course it's hard to imagine even the most brilliant minds of the day being able to forsee the expansion of the the nation and government, and no less important the advances in technology, 250 years out. If they had that ability they would probably have been a little more proactive on the slavery issue.
I don’t really disagree. I think the only point of contention is that ‘strong central government’ is a relative term. I would argue that after the passage of the constitution the federal government was still considerably weaker than the European monarchies the framers were familiar with.
 
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I do worry about the internet and cable news propaganda problem. There are a hundred million Russians fully convinced that they are winning a war against Nazis and providing humanitarian aid.

I never thought a fresh generation not raised in that environment (see, North Korea) would be susceptible to that.
 
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