B1G Session 4 (Finals) PBP / Comments

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

It goes back what I've been saying.....other teams' wrestlers need to do a better job of letting their opponent from Iowa win.

Plain and simple. No more trying harder against Iowa and pooping their pants against everyone else just to rub it in Iowa's face even more. That sh** needs to stop.

Thanks.

 

[TDJ7]

I look at the 2 eggs laid by Kelly & Moore as the difference. But overall we need to find some offense in the next 10 days.

 

[OldHawkFan]

We had 1 takedown in the final round (8 matches)and it was by our heavyweight.

 

[ghoopin]

Originally posted by TDJ7:
I look at the 2 eggs laid by Kelly & Moore as the difference. But overall we need to find some offense in the next 10 days.

Jewa's effort this weekend off sets that a little. Sure didn't see that coming.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Herky the Uruk-hai]

I didn't expect 4-0, I thought 3-1 was a fair shot, 2-2 was doable, 1-3 was likely, 0-4 - okay at some point the collective team performance needs to be examined and resolved. I cannot think of a more disappointing "co-champion" moment for the Hawkeyes. A terribly said ending to the tournament - it is hard not to be frustrated, Iowa must get some offense somewhere.

 

[xjohnx]

Originally posted by OldHawkFan:
We had 1 takedown in the final round (8 matches)and it was by our heavyweight.

This says it all.

 

[AW12]

Team title in St. Louis is in big trouble. Iowa isn't a favorite in any weight class and lack the offense to upset a few. Not a good feeling after today.

 

[overeasy]

Originally posted by payton7622:

Originally posted by overeasy:

Originally posted by 20X:
The difference between the good wrestlers and us is they can get a take down. We can't set anything up and finish for anything. The days of being "heavy on the head" and "outworking our opponents" are gone. Until Iowa starts to get slick and work on multiple ties and multiple take downs, this is where we will sit.

Yep. Iowa doesn't have any good wrestlers.

We absolutely have good wrestlers, We simply no longer have any great ones.

Don't disagree. However, there was only one bona fide great wrestler in the entire tournament: Stiebleurr. One, Martinez, might end up being great.

But that's not what he said. What he said wasn't even close to true.

However, I agree with the overall sentiment that wrestling has been getting worse over the last decade or two. Many of these matches were close to unwatchable. Nobody, especially the NCAA wrestling committee, should be proud. They have the responsibility and the power to change the trend. We need to demand that they do.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Originally posted by 20X:
co-1st. I could care less about co-champs. We have one tie and one take down and if opponents scout us and take it away we have nothing. Wrestling will lose what it is all about and fan bases will quit building. It's obvious the direction refs are taking wrestling...boring with no stall calls. Maybe the NCAA has to make new rules like no riding time points or something..I don't know. It has gotten worse and worse in the past 10 years. Count the number of take downs. I will be curious.

That's weak.

You're exaggerating.

Nobody is thrilled to share a team title, but it's our 35th Big Ten team championship, no matter how much you want to reject it as insufficient or complain about it.

I like our chances in St. Louis. I'll assume you don't. Knock yourself out with that winning attitude.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Originally posted by payton7622:

Originally posted by overeasy:

Originally posted by 20X:
The difference between the good wrestlers and us is they can get a take down. We can't set anything up and finish for anything. The days of being "heavy on the head" and "outworking our opponents" are gone. Until Iowa starts to get slick and work on multiple ties and multiple take downs, this is where we will sit.

Yep. Iowa doesn't have any good wrestlers.

We absolutely have good wrestlers, We simply no longer have any great ones.

I hear ya, bro, but great wrestlers are in damn short supply. Just not many out there.

 

[BIG10MANIAC]

We have a solid team but Iowa needs to quit missing out on top 100 recruits. We need to be recruiting and landing guys that can turn the tide. It hurts to keep seeing the top recruits go to Penn State or Ohio State.

If you have solid athletes you will have a solid team, and we do. If you want to be the best team, go after the best recruits. No disrespect to our guys but most (save Evans) were not top 10 in their own weight classes coming out of High School.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Originally posted by BIG10MANIAC:
We have a solid team but Iowa needs to quit missing out on top 100 recruits. We need to be recruiting and landing guys that can turn the tide. It hurts to keep seeing the top recruits go to Penn State or Ohio State.

If you have solid athletes you will have a solid team, and we do. If you want to be the best team, go after the best recruits. No disrespect to our guys but most (save Evans) were not top 10 in their own weight classes coming out of High School.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's exactly what we're trying to do.

 

[Shafthawk]

I was really hoping Telford would win so no one could claim sour grapes.

I just spent almost an entire weekend following this tournament. I had already made up my mind that even if Telford won, I will not be taking days off from work to follow Nationals from beginning to end.

I will follow the results on this site. But when I start being bored, even in wins, it becomes hard to justify that kind of time spent away from family.

I'll spend that time riding my Harley, spending time with the kids, and then just read the PBP thread at the end of the day.

The push out rule should be enacted starting next year if they want to bring any excitement back to the sport.

Why not have it as it will also prepare College Wrestlers for it in International competition.

I just feel right now, even if we win, College Wrestling has become a poor product for spectators.

 

[therasslinfan]

Originally posted by BIG10MANIAC:
We have a solid team but Iowa needs to quit missing out on top 100 recruits. We need to be recruiting and landing guys that can turn the tide. It hurts to keep seeing the top recruits go to Penn State or Ohio State.

If you have solid athletes you will have a solid team, and we do. If you want to be the best team, go after the best recruits. No disrespect to our guys but most (save Evans) were not top 10 in their own weight classes coming out of High School.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Evans was fourth overall. Moore was eleventh.

 

[20X]

Been a fan for 35 years...yes..maybe some exaggeration, however, there has been a huge difference in the last decade, and it is ruining college wrestling. Whether it's the fault of refs, NCAA, style..I don't know. Somehow changes need to be made. I just don't like how some of our wrestlers look so good with riding and take downs as freshmen and seem to stall. I will be cheering for them at NCAA's but predict more of the same. Hope they surprise me and win it all. Still love the Hawks also so don't get on me just because I state an opinion of an observation based on the last four years of wrestling.

 

[therasslinfan]

Originally posted by therasslinfan:

Originally posted by BIG10MANIAC:
We have a solid team but Iowa needs to quit missing out on top 100 recruits. We need to be recruiting and landing guys that can turn the tide. It hurts to keep seeing the top recruits go to Penn State or Ohio State.

If you have solid athletes you will have a solid team, and we do. If you want to be the best team, go after the best recruits. No disrespect to our guys but most (save Evans) were not top 10 in their own weight classes coming out of High School.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Evans was fourth overall. Moore was eleventh.

Apparently I didn't read the whole post.

 

[hawkssox1]

Originally posted by HemiHawk:
Wow. All four finalists lose.

It was like watching "Dancing with the stars".

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Originally posted by over easy:

However, I agree with the overall sentiment that wrestling has been getting worse over the last decade or two. Many of these matches were close to unwatchable. Nobody, especially the NCAA wrestling committee, should be proud. They have the responsibility and the power to change the trend. We need to demand that they do.

Completely agree. There was a lot of boring wrestling today. A lot of scoreless first periods, a lot of matches with no TDs, and a lot of overtime ride-outs to secure a 2-1 win. Had I known how today's session would unfold, I would have done something else with my afternoon. There were less than a handful of entertaining matches all day; most were snoozers.

It's pretty clear that good defense is much easier to master than good offense. I think rule changes are in order to emphasize scoring and make attacking more rewarding. These ideas aren't original, but maybe 3 points for an attacking TD and 1 point for a counter TD. Put guys back on their feet after 40 seconds on the mat with no scoring. And eliminate the stall warning - hit guys immediately and consistently with a penalty point for backing up or not engaging.

Not saying these are the answers, but something needs to be done. Football and baseball changed their rules/parameters when scoring was perceived as too difficult - wrestling should do the same.

 

[CFNiteHawk85]

I think every non-Iowa final was more entertaining than any Iowa final.

 

[Shafthawk]

I just don't think its as easy as saying our guys need to be more Offensive. I'm sure there is some of that going on.

But, anyone who tries to force their Offense against Tsirtsis is playing right into his hands. There is a reason the guy does not end up in many shootouts, and that is not just against our guys.

The wrestlers that have perfected Defensive-minded wrestling are hoping to frustrate the guy pushing the pace into bad shots. Evans got third by not falling into that trap, but playing that game himself. You can be upset with Evans, but I don't think he even does as well as third place if he tried to force the action. How many times are you going to lose to this strategy before you say "I can play that game to".

I dare anybody on this board to tell Metcalf he isn't a good Offensive wrestler. Yet, he had to play things smarter against Palmer. He had to slow down his aggression and only committ to real solid shots.

I'm really sick of guys backing to the edge so that they have the advantage of space to finish their shot, while we have the misfortune of finishing ours out of bounds. We should stop chasing them to the edge. Back up to the center, make it obvious to the ref that they are backing up. Don't hangout where they have a clear advantage on the edge.

I don't blame our guys for riding the ankles, stall riding, etc. when they are getting beat by others employing these tactics. I don't blame our guys for adapting to what is allowed, even if it is boring.

I blame the people in charge of the sport, the rulemakers, the referees. They are the ones that have to put in place rules, and make calls that demand action and engagement. They are the ones that need to put rules in place to make it so the best wrestler is decided by wrestling, instead of by boring strategies of stalling and ankle riding for 4 seconds...continually over and over.

Martinez/Ness was a great match because both guys decided they were going to decide it wrestling. We need more of that in this sport. And it is obvious that the only way were getting it, is by making Offensive wrestling rewarding again.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Time to get rid of riding time?

 

[PackerHawk51]

Hey Big10maniac you obviously have no clue wussy your talking about!! Gilman was top 3 Clark was top 3 dziewa was the number 1 kid in the country Moore was number 2 Sammy brooks was top 3 and Telford was top 2 so I guess you couldn't be more wrong...