Great work, Dan. The PTL ought to draw a lot of interest this year and I can't wait to see how some of these recruits look in person.
Before the PTL: My Guesswork on the Newbies
- Thread starter DanL53
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If CW puts in the time that Dev did at Iowa, he will surpass him in several categories. That said, do not be surprised if he does not have the stats (other than percentages) that Dev had. As there will be a much better supporting cast than what Dev had for most of his career...
This isn't a knock on DanL or anything he wrote, I'm pretty excited about this class. I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic and will reserve judgement until we see them play with an Iowa uniform on. My only "cool the jets" comment would be there's probably a DanL at every school writing about their team and incoming recruits, and if you read them, you'd probably also have a drool pool. This is particularly true if you are a fan of that team and objectivity isn't quite as important. I remember back in the 90's reading reports from Hawkeyereport about different incoming recruits. Every recruit sounded like the next Michael Jordan coming to Iowa. Last year, we heard glowing reports about Dickerson (how he was the best PG we had and would start from day 1). I"m not saying everyone was saying this about Dickerson, but enough people were.
It's not going to be easy to replace one of the best players to ever wear an Iowa uniform, and another player who was a solid contributor inside.
It's not going to be easy to replace one of the best players to ever wear an Iowa uniform, and another player who was a solid contributor inside.
From the videos it looks like both like to get to the rim and tend to disdain the trey. Coach Francis said Moss's offense was "ready," but also admitted he lacked range.
It's way too early to call them identical. If we see them in person a couple times and think they are identical, then that's something. And, being identical isn't a bad thing. Weren't Horace and Harvey Grant literally identical Clemson Tigers who both played ten years or more in the NBA? Iowa would love to be the launching pad for such productive carbon copies.
And Moss/Williams can't possibly be as identical as the Danville High walk on twins.
By the way, has anyone noticed that the scout team will surely be more Big Ten like than the varsity? Ukah & the Twins may only trail Woodbury in the bulk department.
It's way too early to call them identical. If we see them in person a couple times and think they are identical, then that's something. And, being identical isn't a bad thing. Weren't Horace and Harvey Grant literally identical Clemson Tigers who both played ten years or more in the NBA? Iowa would love to be the launching pad for such productive carbon copies.
And Moss/Williams can't possibly be as identical as the Danville High walk on twins.
By the way, has anyone noticed that the scout team will surely be more Big Ten like than the varsity? Ukah & the Twins may only trail Woodbury in the bulk department.
Keep in mind Dickerson was the number one JUCO PG. Just sayn. ... That said, he couldn't play in control the way coach wanted him to. Fran knows what he is teaching. If you buy in, work hard, stay committed, you will do well.... But i get your point. It is easy to get too excited. But i am going to stay that way until it gets proven wrong...
I don't see anyone predicting B1G championship in their excitement....so cool the jets is not applicable. One can be excited and objective at the same time. Anyone who has been around & follows Iowa BB can see the state of the program....which right now is pretty good.
We have the same coach who recruited that player referenced as one of the best to ever wear an Iowa uniform ... 4 year players come & go...while I don't consider White as one of the best ever (he will be missed)... same token.. he can be replaced.
.. thus making Dan's newbies pre-PTL interesting to read...which is all we have at this point. Excitement is a good thing...beats the alternative.
We have the same coach who recruited that player referenced as one of the best to ever wear an Iowa uniform ... 4 year players come & go...while I don't consider White as one of the best ever (he will be missed)... same token.. he can be replaced.
.. thus making Dan's newbies pre-PTL interesting to read...which is all we have at this point. Excitement is a good thing...beats the alternative.
To my untrained eye, I would agree they both like to get to the rim, but Moss seems like a more athletic, explosive player. I think CW is a better Marble comp (not there yet but same mold) in that he is smooth and has the athleticism and leaping ability, but he isn't blowing you away with it. Moss on the other hand can really get up and in the games I watched seemed to like to show that off (thinking of a game against that giant kid from Texas where his shooting percentage went south when he missed a couple dunks I haven't seen anyone attempt at Iowa since Doug Thomas). They are similar size but I think Williams is more of a pg in the making and Moss more of a slasher who can hopefully develop an outside shot and the ability to break people down consistently. I think both have the ability to be very good.
Edit to correct auto-correct. Smh.
This thread was just about the potential, admittedly as yet unrealized, of our newbies.
DanL Quixote has yet to strike. When I aim to put down the Thirteen Dragons of the Big Ten, I'll use the true sword of our 2015/16 team. That's for another thread, soon.
Oh, and bring on these Proclivity to Postulate the Positive Imposters from Opposing Teams! I'll literally literally shred them to pieces and make a fine pate to spread on toast!
I hope posters are patient with this influx of potential. Many won't light the court on fire this year but the foundation has been laid. I am excited for where Fran is taking us.
The days of a freshman coming in and lighting it up are probably gone. That is not to say Fran won't land some blue chippers because I think he will. But we better be used to the upper classmen dominating the minutes. This is generally a good thing.
I'm sure you can DanL, and I'm sure they can do the same with yours. It's called looking at things through black and gold glasses, or crimson red glasses, etc. That's the point I'm making.This thread was just about the potential, admittedly as yet unrealized, of our newbies.
DanL Quixote has yet to strike. When I aim to put down the Thirteen Dragons of the Big Ten, I'll use the true sword of our 2015/16 team. That's for another thread, soon.
Oh, and bring on these Proclivity to Postulate the Positive Imposters from Opposing Teams! I'll literally literally shred them to pieces and make a fine pate to spread on toast!
Goes well with Chianti!
I have no doubt that if Little Lick had come to Iowa (and dad not coaching Iowa), your scouting report of him would have been "glowing in praise of his talent", calling him "an incredibly smart basketball player, who won't turn the ball over, a gifted passer, and the potential to shoot the ball like Luke Recker. If he's not a 30 minute a game starter, he'll see a lot of minutes and could be one of the best 6th men in the Big Ten".
You didn't invent the overhype and you won't be the last one to adopt this strategy. There have been hundreds/thousands of DanL since the dawn of basketball, and there will be hundreds/thousands of DanL's long after you die. Que sera, sera.
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Fair enough, fans have every right to be overly optimistic about their team's chances even if they have the talent level of a 20 game loser (and no, I'm not saying that is the case with Iowa, just speaking hypothetically). I never claimed anyone was predicting B1G championship for Iowa, however, we read similar "the stars the limits" breakdown on players, every year. The names change, the hype never does. Every fan base does it, even NFL fans after their teams draft (OMG, we had an awesome draft. These guys are all future all pro players).
Again, none of this is new. This has been going on for decades with Iowa fans. If you look at the scouting reports of guys who never played more than mop up minutes at Iowa, you would have been wetting your pants in excitement before they came to Iowa, and some DanL Sr was saying, "Player X could be the best PG we've seen since Ronnie Lester. The kid does all the little things well, and is going to be a monster.'. We've seen the same thing with football recruits with people getting all worked up because Player X is a stud linebacker, only to find that Player X sucks, and never saw the field.
If White isn't one of the best bigs to ever wear an Iowa uniform (notice I didn't say best), then I'd sure like to see the long list of names ahead of him. I also, never said he can't be replaced. Michael Jordan could be replaced, even as good as he was. However, if won't be easy to replace him. It's not like Iowa has a lot of big depth, now with Gabe and White gone.
Excitement is great. The alternative, a little calm, is also great. A little objectiveness, a little temperance, isn't a bad thing. It keeps people bringing too much expectation and pressure, on players and the teams. Many Hawk fans have blown gaskets the past couple years with the football team not winning more games. The schedule has been cupcakeville so it's understandable their optimism. The problem is they overhyped the talent Ferentz was bringing into Iowa. Just like above, the local writeups of these players, before coming to Iowa, sounded more like a team fielding talent on level with the NE Patriots. Ok, that's a slight exaggeration, but the point remains. It was overhyped. Most of these kids were 2-3 star players and people are wondering why they aren't playing better, beating teams with more 4-5 star players.
I could be upset that Kyle Hendricks isn't pitching at a Cy Young level, but that would be silly on my part. While some people had hyped expectations of his abilities before he was called up to the Cubs, those people weren't looking at his number/film very objectively. He's still a nice pitcher, but he's not a top of the rotation caliber pitcher.
No what you typed was 'one of the best players to ever wear an Iowa uniform'...so now its "best bigs"...maybe you should read what u post...
Iowa fans have every right to be excited and optimistic....who cares whether they do or not....
I get your point, that anyone who has a view more positive than yours has tainted vision. My simple reply is don't worry about it, I won't be coming to you for a vision prescription and I'm sure you won't do the same to me.
You want to know WHY I'm excited about the incoming players? Because as I've taken a more positive outlook, it has proven out to be correct more often than not.
I did enjoy your mention of White and Olaseni as being tough players to replace. Two unranked three star players. In Olaseni's case, check out one of the players that he was compared with:
http://sports.yahoo.com/highschool/basketball/recruiting/player-Gabe-Olaseni-119980
Frank Kaminsky! Wow, who knew he'd become the Naismith College Basketball Player of the Year!?!?!? Probably some Badger pelt wearing DanL type in Wisconsin I suppose.
(One may have to mess with this as several groups of three come up. Search, Gabe Olaseni Rivals, click on "Gabe Olaseni - Yahoo Sports". If Kaminsky doesn't' appear in the first group of three hit the back button and keep trying. The players will change, he will appear.)
Twelve wins, Six Losses. Better than I expected last year! I gotta get my eyes checked.
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How come every time folks want to post a video or 2 of an incoming recruit and post their thoughts on what positives and potential they bring to the table folks have to come on here and shit on it by saying its overhyping? Nothing was overhyped. No where were these players anointed. No one is suggesting anyone starting from the moment they walked on campus. Vids were posted and their games were explained a bit. It's the off season. This board is always notoriously slow. Dan's post offer some insight on what we can expect coming into the PTL season. Why shit on it in any way, shape, or form? Phantom, take your negativity to the OT board please. If ya can't enjoy some of this insight and a highlight vid or 2 then GTFO.
And to bring up John Licklighter, 5'10" coaches son walk on, and to compare a preseason video/discussion about potential to any of these recruits. Give us more credit then that!
I really enjoyed the TV station video of Dale Jones that DanL posted...I like listening to a recruit as much as their playing videos (which in some cases are highlights)...I also know that Dan might be one of the very few posters who will watch an 'entire' game of a recruit...so it is not like he is not spending the time to view as much as he can.
this was a great pre-PTL thread...thanks again Dan..
OH he did say "guesswork"...that's not a hype.
this was a great pre-PTL thread...thanks again Dan..
OH he did say "guesswork"...that's not a hype.
My pleasure. My favorite was the ten questions asked of Christian Williams, that reporter was really putting him on the spot.
You mean people don't dig through the net looking for basketball games in May?
Good grief. Fine. He's still one of the best players to ever wear an Iowa uniform. Geez, you are being a db, just to be a db. But, yeah, he's not one of Iowa's best players. LOL. So, I'll ask again. If you don't think White is one of the best players to ever wear an Iowa uniform, I sure want to see your long list of better players. Ignore the numbers bob, I hate to stop you from a good rant based on your "unbiased" observations.
"Finished his Iowa career ranked first in Iowa games played (140), and free throw makes (618) and attempts (800), second in scoring (1,859), third in rebounding (901), and 14th in double-doubles (16)... made more free throws (618) than any Big Ten player the last 50 years and ranks third all-time in conference annals... first Hawkeye to lead the team in rebounding four straight years... his 195 free throw makes in 2015 are the most by any Iowa senior in program history and is second overall (218 by Reggie Evans in 2001)... shattered Iowa's career free throw makes record (618); Roy Marble is second with 516... only Hawkeye with 1,800+ points, 900+ rebounds, 175+ assists, and 125+ steals... scored in double figures 95 career times... posted 16 career double-doubles... pulled down double-digit rebounds 17 career times... score 20-points-or-more 20 times in his career... first Hawkeye ever to register 1,300+ points, 650+ rebounds, 100+ steals and 100+ assists by his junior season... p
http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/aaron_white_737355.html
Nice strawman too. Iowa fans "Have every right to be excited and optimistic". Actually you are wrong, they have every right to be excited/optimist OR depressed/pessimistic. Fans have the right to feel whatever they want about the team.
"I get your point, that anyone who has a view more positive than yours has tainted vision."
Uh, LOL, you clearly didn't get my point, because in no way, shape or form, did I say this and I welcome you to provide quotes to the contrary.
Good grief, Dan, are you still preaching the rankings don't mean anything mantra? Who won the NCAA championship this season? What were the rankings of those players? They were probably all unranked 3 star players. LOL. How about the team that finished runner-up this season? LOL.
I guess you must have missed my post yesterday where I was talking about Iowa going after market inefficiencies in recruiting. Specifically mentioned Stephen Curry, who wasn't recruited by a single major conference school, including his father's alma mater. I know, that would interrupt you from one of your nonsensical rants, like rankings don't matter. Get over yourself. Yep, you are the poster child of objectivity when evaluating Iowa recruits. And Iowa will win the NCAA basketball tournament next season.
It was an exaggeration to make a point. Tell me an Iowa scholarship player either of you haven't glowed about under Fran (hell probably even under Lick)? Let's try it another way. Based on your/Dan's incoming evaluations of the "newbies", how many players have performed better than you expected (be honest), and how many have performed worse (again, be honest)?
Aaron White had a very good career.. for a 4 year player and 140 games played. And some of the stats totals are reflective of those 140 games... former players did not get to play 140. Freshman could not play until 1973...had Kevin Kunnert been allowed to do so...who knows what totals he would have had. Same with Andre Woolridge...so totals are a little deceiving when you consider actual games played.
Its also very difficult to compare players of generations ago...the college game is not the same today as what it was say when John Johnson & Fred Brown played...can you imagine if the 3 pt shot had been around then? Me thinks they would have averaged a few more than the 27 pts they did score per game.
If you want to use 4 year players' only & since the 3 pt shot clock came into play...White is one of the very best.
If you want to use all generations....here is my list ahead of White...since I have followed Iowa BB.
Chris Pervall
Sam Williams
Chad Calabria
John Johnson
Fred Brown
Kevin Kunnert
Ronnie Lester
Greg Stokes
Roy Marble
BJ Armstrong
Andre Woolridge
......
a few more that are close to even:
George Peeples
Glenn Vidnovic
Bruce King
Jess Settles
Dean Oliver
Reggie Evans
Jeff Horner
Greg Brunner
Adam Haluska
Matt Gatens
Devyn Marble
I'm sure I missed someone....since its just off the top of my head...comparing career totals to someone who played 140 games to someone who played 48 is all well and good..
Its also very difficult to compare players of generations ago...the college game is not the same today as what it was say when John Johnson & Fred Brown played...can you imagine if the 3 pt shot had been around then? Me thinks they would have averaged a few more than the 27 pts they did score per game.
If you want to use 4 year players' only & since the 3 pt shot clock came into play...White is one of the very best.
If you want to use all generations....here is my list ahead of White...since I have followed Iowa BB.
Chris Pervall
Sam Williams
Chad Calabria
John Johnson
Fred Brown
Kevin Kunnert
Ronnie Lester
Greg Stokes
Roy Marble
BJ Armstrong
Andre Woolridge
......
a few more that are close to even:
George Peeples
Glenn Vidnovic
Bruce King
Jess Settles
Dean Oliver
Reggie Evans
Jeff Horner
Greg Brunner
Adam Haluska
Matt Gatens
Devyn Marble
I'm sure I missed someone....since its just off the top of my head...comparing career totals to someone who played 140 games to someone who played 48 is all well and good..
Lighten up, Francis.
"How come every time folks want to post a video or 2 of an incoming recruit and post their thoughts on what positives and potential they bring to the table folks have to come on here and shit on it by saying its overhyping?"
Shall I chalk this up as your use of an exaggeration, since I haven't visited the basketball board in months. And I rarely comment on an incoming recruit, because I haven't watched them play. It's kind of my point. I'll reserve judgement until I see them play in an Iowa uniform against other D1 athletes. I'm amazed you get your nose so out-of-joint by my saying that you are overhyping these recruits. I'm hardly calling you a four letter word, or saying these recruits suck. Read this slowly, so you don't miss the point. EVERY fan overhypes their players. It's human nature. This is especially true when we are talking recruits or drafts. I do it ALL the time. I think the Bears had a dynamite draft and think the WR they selected with their 1st pick is going to be a stud. He might, but that doesn't mean my objectivity probably isn't colored by a little navy blue/orange glasses.
You don't believe I'm being fair using the term "overhyped"? Fine, go to other fans boards and look at their evaluation of those players. They may underhype these players because they are going to Iowa. Look at independent scouting services, who don't have an allegiance to any school. Look at the schools that offered these players scholarships.
There's no need for you to erect strawmen to make your point. Never did I claim you were "anointing players" or "suggesting anyone starting from the moment they walked on campus". You are projecting.
How did I "shit on it in any way, shape, or form"? Did I critique one single player in this class? All I stated was the obvious, is that fans have biases, we has Hawk fans overhype our recruits. If anything I'm doing the players a favor, tempering expectations, much like people will do if some fans say we are going to go 12-0 next season and win the BCS championship.
Finally, I have said nothing "negative" and specifically said my comments weren't a knock on DanL. I will visit the basketball board as often as I like. If you don't like it don't read my comments, STFU, or put me on ignore. I don't care. But I'll make comments on this board, whether you like it or not, so deal with it.
Some of what you said is based on "what ifs". How about "what did"? Staying healthy shouldn't be a knock against him . The fact he was good enough to start as a freshman shouldn't be a knock against him.
Great, so Iowa basketball has been around 100+ years, with anywhere from 10-15 players on a team (most under scholarship), and you came up with 11 players you think are better than White.
You talk about Johnson and Brown and imagining them with the 3 pt line. Fair point. How about imagining them playing against the defense teams play today. Good lord, they didn't play defense back in those days, which is why 100 pt games were no big deal. We agree, the games different, so it's hard to make comparison. It's like comparing Koufax to Maddux. Different eras, different game.
I don't think White ranks below a single player on your 2nd list. However, who cares? Because you've made my point. I never said he was the best, I said one of the best. If you don't think someone, who ranks as high as 12, on your list, isn't one of the best players to play for Iowa, then your are just disagreeing to disagree. I think you are selling White short if you don't think he's one of the best to walk through Iowa. His numbers don't lie.
"I get your point, that anyone who has a view more positive than yours has tainted vision."
Uh, LOL, you clearly didn't get my point, because in no way, shape or form, did I say this and I welcome you to provide quotes to the contrary.
Good grief, Dan, are you still preaching the rankings don't mean anything mantra? Who won the NCAA championship this season? What were the rankings of those players? They were probably all unranked 3 star players. LOL. How about the team that finished runner-up this season? LOL.
I guess you must have missed my post yesterday where I was talking about Iowa going after market inefficiencies in recruiting. Specifically mentioned Stephen Curry, who wasn't recruited by a single major conference school, including his father's alma mater. I know, that would interrupt you from one of your nonsensical rants, like rankings don't matter. Get over yourself. Yep, you are the poster child of objectivity when evaluating Iowa recruits. And Iowa will win the NCAA basketball tournament next season.
Not to worry about me quote chasing Phantom, you are clearly in one of those moods where all you want to do is argue. I'm not interested. If you have a problem with a thread that started out with the word "Guesswork" in the title, that's your business.
Phantom...no ...what you said was one of the best players EVER...and that's ok...your opinion is yours...and you call me a DoucheBag for saying he had a very good career..disagreeing with the one of the best players EVER part.
You asked me for a list....I gave you one...I only included players I actually saw in person.
How bout your list?
Dan did a player analysis for the newcomers...and clearly stated pre-PTL guesswork in his thread title...numerous posters replied they enjoyed the posts'''' its called talking Iowa BB...there is nothing in his posts that suggest any of the newcomers are the next Aaron White...there is also nothing in his posts that says one or more won't have a career as good as White's. He doesn't know...no one does...its just talking basketball...
you come along and play the Iowa fans overhype and have rose colored glasses card...just because someone post some positive opinions about these 6 new guys...
You asked me for a list....I gave you one...I only included players I actually saw in person.
How bout your list?
Dan did a player analysis for the newcomers...and clearly stated pre-PTL guesswork in his thread title...numerous posters replied they enjoyed the posts'''' its called talking Iowa BB...there is nothing in his posts that suggest any of the newcomers are the next Aaron White...there is also nothing in his posts that says one or more won't have a career as good as White's. He doesn't know...no one does...its just talking basketball...
you come along and play the Iowa fans overhype and have rose colored glasses card...just because someone post some positive opinions about these 6 new guys...
That was the biggest douche bag post I have read on this board in a long time.
This is why I knew we would be better even after losing Marble.
The majority of the starters went from under to upper classmen.
We don't need most of these freshman to do much next year. Utoff is money, Jok just needs to eliminate the inconsistency and he'll be money too.
And the thing I think will surprise people is one or maybe two of Sapp, Mike and Woody will likely take a nice big step forward and be a force on offense.
The important thing for the frosh is to get some experience for the next year when we lose 4 seniors.
I think some of the excitement we are seeing here is due to the fact that some of these players come from premier high schools like #1 in the nation Oak Hill Academy and top ten teams like Simeon. These schools play the best competition, have the best coaching and play a schedule almost double of what most schools play because of all the tournaments and invitational they play. This gives their players a big head start toward being ready to play college level basketball. They will be disciplined players and have a leader's attitude. They have been putting in the extra work these top programs demand and I am real excited to see what they can do.
I think it's very logical to expect that Iowa will be as good if not better next year with that many seniors. Especially when one is a POY candidate.
It's also logical to expect that some of the incoming freshman will not turn out that great. He'll, it's likely a few of them won't last. It happens. We all get that.
Dan is choosing to expect the best and there's nothing wrong with that. There's no reason to be pessimistic about any of them at this point.
Dan I enjoy the reads. Keep it up.
It's also logical to expect that some of the incoming freshman will not turn out that great. He'll, it's likely a few of them won't last. It happens. We all get that.
Dan is choosing to expect the best and there's nothing wrong with that. There's no reason to be pessimistic about any of them at this point.
Dan I enjoy the reads. Keep it up.
I think peoples veiw of White is simmilar to Gatens the very end of their career greatly effects their perception.
Both were good players but only great for the last 16th of their careers.
I would have to think long and hard about taking AW over Evans, Brunner, Settles, Earl, and Street.
Both were good players but only great for the last 16th of their careers.
I would have to think long and hard about taking AW over Evans, Brunner, Settles, Earl, and Street.
That's my bet as well. There is nothing like a senior year to motivate a player to leave it all on the court. All three of the guys you mention showed glimmers of a breakout last season.
I could really see Woodbury being a nice low post scorer if they can knock down 3s around him to allow him space to operate.
Cop out, because you know you made it up. LOL. Your responses to me should begin "Dan's fictional tales". You're just making sh*t up as usual. You are the guy who started the argument, not me. It's DanL's bizzaro world, welcome everybody.
You're the clown that thinks rankings are meaningless then cite Kaminsky as your proof. Not reasoning there, Dan, the exception proves the rule. Ignore the fact he had 5 D1 offers, including at least 2 in the B1G. Ignore the fact that Wis also has Dekker (5 star), Hayes (4 star), Koenig (4 star), and Kaminsky, Gasser, and Jackson were all 3's stars.
But hey, you're such an awesome evaluator talent, nobody hires you to do this for a living. If you have a problem with making a harmless, general observation about overhyping, then that's your problem. If you don't like what I have to say, prove where I'm wrong, or don't bother responding. It's not really that hard. This is a message board, we are free to express opinions.
I don't have a list, and if I did it would include more than 11 names. I called you a db because I thought you were nitpicking with the best big men comment. Fine, I'll stick to he's one of the best players to don an Iowa jersey. Now, watch me be a db by doing to you what I thought you did to me. I never said he "was one of the best players EVER". I said he was "one of the best players to ever wear an Iowa uniform." I don't think he belongs in with Jordan, Magic, Bird, Barkley, etc. "Maybe you should read what u/I post". Now do you understand why it came across as a little db'ish to me, even if it wasn't meant to be?
Why do I need to provide a list? I've provided the stats as the basis for my reasoning. He ranks 1st in numerous categories. You want me to apply subjective standards you are using to come up with a list. You are talking about players from different eras. One of your reasons you gave against White was freshman didn't play prior to '73. Yet half of your list is made up of players post '73.
Why get upset? If you disagree with me that Dan's analysis isn't a little rose colored, so what? Don't I have a right to my opinion? If it upsets you or others to admit that maybe, just maybe, you maybe overhyping these players a tiny bit, then just move on your way. No one is forcing you to comment. You are free to disagree with me. Why the hostility though because I state the obvious? Has it become a rule around here where only saying rosy things is allowed? Good grief, if you don't agree with me or even if you don't like what I say, get over it. Move on. Ignore it. Or at the very least show me where I"m wrong. All anyone has done has claimed I said things I didn't and acted like I pissed in your cheerios because I doubt these players will be as good as Dan (and others here) have said they are. History and human nature are on my side that I'm correct. I'm sorry if this offends you.
Returning so much experience really helps, and should make it much easier on the fresh to ease their way in. I think only the big guy might see major minutes, because the Hawks don't have a lot of big bodies, outside of Woody. They have some decent size with guys like Uthoff, but they'll get pushed around by bigger bodies, they just don't have much weight, strength to play inside for long periods of time.
Different types of players. Evans was a bricklayer on the FT, had little offensive game, but a stud rebounder. Settles was great before the back injuries, where he became a shell of himself after. Earl was a great shotblocker. None of those guys, including Street, ran the floor as well as White. None could shoot FT's as well or get to the FT line as well.
White's biggest problem was he played on 3 teams that never had a pure shooter to stretch the floor (he had Gatens for his FR season) and open it up for him to create havoc inside. Nor did he play with a PG that could consistently break a defender down off the dribble. Evans had Recker. Brunner had Pierce and Horner. Earl had Val Barnes, Settles had Woolridge. Street, Barnes, and Earl played together, so they all benefited from playing with other talented players.
White has played mostly with teams that had no outside shooting threat beyond the arc, nor a PG who could break down guys, necessitating double teams. Teams just packed it inside and dared Iowa to shoot the 3 ball. This didn't allow White maximize his skills. I think it would be scary to think about the damage White could have done playing for some of the teams, Evans, Bru, Settles, Earl, and Street played for.
I also disagree with the notion he was only great the last 16th of his career. White was one of the better freshman in the country his freshman year. He was named to the B1G all freshman team, and all conference honorable mention. He led the team in rebounding, 3rd in scoring and steals. Scored a career high 25 pts in their opening NIT win against Dayton. He also tallied 11 rebounds which equals the highest total by an Iowa player in an NIT game. He got 22 points and 8 rebounds in their 2nd round game against Oregon.
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