Bernie Sanders: I cannot understand the absurdity that it costs 10x as much for insulin in the USA as it does for the same exact drug in Canada

[theiacowtipper]

They're charging what the market will bear.

Healthcare is not a market. There’s no such thing as free market healthcare in this country. If Hostess overpriced cupcakes in an attempt to gouge customers the market will move elsewhere. With healthcare you have no choice. Or at least very little. Every form of insulin is overpriced. The consumer has no choice because if they don’t buy the product they’ll die.

Some forms of healthcare are market based. See LASIK surgery. In those cases, the market regulates price pretty well. Drugs are an example of when tha cant happen. .

 

[The Tradition]

Because losers like you are against socialized healthcare.

JFC! We don't have socialized breakfast cereal, or cars, or soda pop, or clothes.

In virtually every other market, competitors try to cut into the "name brand's" market share by selling a cheaper version of the same product.

But this doesn't happen in the drug business.

Why O why is that, HROT? Please enlighten me.

 

[theiacowtipper]

They're paying "less" in other countries because the market (which includes the regulatory costs of doing business) is different in other countries.

Bullshit. Unmitigated bullshit. The drugs cost more because there is a total lack of government regulation of price, combined with a broken insurance system. What’s common in those other countries is a strong government run healthcare program.

 

[lucas80]

So you'd think someone would come out with a cheaper version. Why doesn't that happen?

If we were talking about virtually any other product except medicine, cheaper alternatives would flood the market if the "brand name" is perceived to be priced too high.

But not with drugs. Think... I mean REALLY THINK about why that might be.

Sometimes I really wonder if you are this dense, or you are working hard to appear this dense. Insulin has been around for 100 years. It is the equivalent of aspirin when it comes to R&D.

 

[The Tradition]

Healthcare is not a market. There’s no such thing as free market healthcare in this country. If Hostess overpriced cupcakes in an attempt to gouge customers the market will move elsewhere. With healthcare you have no choice. Or at least very little. Every form of insulin is overpriced. The consumer has no choice because if they don’t buy the product they’ll die.

Some forms of healthcare are market based. See LASIK surgery. In those cases, the market regulates price pretty well. Drugs are an example of when tha cant happen. .

WHY can it not happen with insulin? Because it's necessary? That's bullcrap. If the price is "exorbitant" then someone would undercut the competition.

The problem is the regulatory barrier to entry. End of story.

 

[The Tradition]

Bullshit. Unmitigated bullshit. The drugs cost more because there is a total lack of government regulation of price, combined with a broken insurance system. What’s common in those other countries is a strong government run healthcare program.

You say "total lack of regulation of price" like that's a bad thing.

 

[The Tradition]

Sometimes I really wonder if you are this dense, or you are working hard to appear this dense. Insulin has been around for 100 years. It is the equivalent of aspirin when it comes to R&D.

I didn't say anything about R&D. I'm talking about the number of competitors who can bring it to market.

Start your own insulin company and see how hard it is to break into that market and report back.

 

[billanole]

JFC! We don't have socialized breakfast cereal, or cars, or soda pop, or clothes.

In virtually every other market, competitors try to cut into the "name brand's" market share by selling a cheaper version of the same product.

But this doesn't happen in the drug business.

Why O why is that, HROT? Please enlighten me.

So tell us. We are on the edge of our seats. Spill the beans.

 

[billanole]

I didn't say anything about R&D. I'm talking about the number of competitors who can bring it to market.

Start your own insulin company and see how hard it is to break into that market and report back.

I would bet my house that some of the same companies who sell insulin in the US also sell in Canada for dramatically lower prices. You are a stubborn defender of price gouging, and you don’t even get a cut.

 

[The Tradition]

So tell us. We are on the edge of our seats. Spill the beans.

Stifling government regulations, you moron. It creates a barrier to entry that's too high for anyone else to break into the market. Hell, even Bill Gates ain't trying that.

 

[The Tradition]

I would bet my house that some of the same companies who sell insulin in the US also sell in Canada for dramatically lower prices. You are a stubborn defender of price gouging, and you don’t even get a cut.

It's not "gouging" if you're selling it at the price the market (with all the regulatory hoopla) will bear in any particular market.

Gas costs $4.50 in California, but $3.25 here in Florida. Are the gas companies "gouging" Californians?

 

[BelemNole]

Most of the medications we take in the US are made for pennies in India. Next time you get your pills read the box.
The pharma companies sub the work out to India but charge the shit out of you and me. Meanwhile anyone else gets the same meds for dirt cheap. But trad thinks this is the best system.

 

[BelemNole]

It's not "gouging" if you're selling it at the price the market (with all the regulatory hoopla) will bear in any particular market.

Gas costs $4.50 in California, but $3.25 here in Florida. Are the gas companies "gouging" Californians?

CA has more in state and local taxes dummy. Plus it’s not the same market.

 

[The Tradition]

Most of the medications we take in the US are made for pennies in India. Next time you get your pills read the box.
The pharma companies sub the work out to India but charge the shit out of you and me. Meanwhile anyone else gets the same meds for dirt cheap. But trad thinks this is the best system.

No, I think our system sucks.

You think the drugmakers have to spend billions of dollars making the Indian version of the FDA happy? Hell, no.

 

[The Tradition]

CA has more in state and local taxes dummy. Plus it’s not the same market.

Neither is the US and Canada.

 

[BelemNole]

No, I think our system sucks.

You think the drugmakers have to spend billions of dollars making the Indian version of the FDA happy? Hell, no.

Jesus, you’re stupid.

 

[billanole]

Most of the medications we take in the US are made for pennies in India. Next time you get your pills read the box.
The pharma companies sub the work out to India but charge the shit out of you and me. Meanwhile anyone else gets the same meds for dirt cheap. But trad thinks this is the best system.

Trad is a minion plying the trade. He cannot see out of his box.

 

[The Tradition]

Trad is a minion plying the trade. He cannot see out of his box.

Trad understands that socialism does not work.

Unfortunately, we do not have capitalism in the pharma market in this country, because of stifling regulation. You have a handful of players who are authorized to control the market by the feds, and the barriers to entry are too steep to allow any new upstarts into the game.

If you can't see this, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[BelemNole]

Trad understands that socialism does not work.

Unfortunately, we do not have capitalism in the pharma market in this country, because of stifling regulation. You have a handful of players who are authorized to control the market by the feds, and the barriers to entry are too steep to allow any new upstarts into the game.

If you can't see this, then I don't know what to tell you.

Right, socialized medicine works so poorly that it works everywhere in the world.

 

[The Tradition]

Right, socialized medicine works so poorly that it works everywhere in the world.

See the VA for a preview of what socialized medicine would look like in this country.

 

[BelemNole]

See the VA for a preview of what socialized medicine would look like in this country.

Right, we’re back to the argument that the US is special and that things that work everywhere else can’t work here. It’s magic.

 

[HugeEddie]

Not even slightly.

In a sane society, his views would define "centrist" or "moderate."

Whatever comrade

 

[billanole]

Right, we’re back to the argument that the US is special and that things that work everywhere else can’t work here. It’s magic.

Yep. Magic. Many Trads are saying it. Regulatory stuff, you know.

 

[The Tradition]

It's cute how people think everything will be "free" if it's socialized.

 

[billanole]

It's cute how people think everything will be "free" if it's socialized.

It’s cute how some people don’t understand we pay far more for healthcare per capita, yet we are way down the charts in most health metrics, including life expectancy.
Simply, we pay far more and get much shittier care and results.
You will never get it. You are a minion plying the trade and arguing the indefensible.

 

[The Tradition]

It’s cute how some people don’t understand we pay far more for healthcare per capita, yet we are way down the charts in most health metrics, including life expectancy.
Simply, we pay far more and get much shittier care and results.
You will never get it. You are a minion plying the trade and arguing the indefensible.

We have bad outcomes because we're a nation of fatties. Socialism isn't going to fix that.

 

[billanole]

We have bad outcomes because we're a nation of fatties. Socialism isn't going to fix that.

…arguing the indefensible.

 

[The Tradition]

…arguing the indefensible.

Derp.

 

[Whatsgoingonwitgyouguys0190]

JFC! We don't have socialized breakfast cereal, or cars, or soda pop, or clothes.

In virtually every other market, competitors try to cut into the "name brand's" market share by selling a cheaper version of the same product.

But this doesn't happen in the drug business.

Why O why is that, HROT? Please enlighten me.

Dear lord you’re a moron.

 

[The Tradition]

Dear lord you’re a moron.

So, no answer to the question? Figures.

 

[Whatsgoingonwitgyouguys0190]

So, no answer to the question? Figures.

Plenty of answers. None idiots like you who think social programs equals socialism. You’re not smart enough for this adult conversation.

 

[The Tradition]

We have bad outcomes because we're a nation of fatties. Socialism isn't going to fix that.

And one more point before I go to bed and you socialists can circle jerk without me:

If we were not a nation of fatties there would not be such a high demand for insulin in this country.

Good night, fatties.

 

[billanole]

Derp.

Most former Coasties I know have pretty good common sense, can do basic math, and don’t fall for the same bull poop repeatedly.
Most former coasties…

 

[brownd7949hawks]

Maybe one of you super smart libe should argue the points he’s making rather then name calling and snarky comments.

 

[Hawk sauce]

 

[HawCory]

Insulin is $25 at WalMart and you don't even need a prescription to buy it.

It doesn't come in the kwikpen form though, which is the only reason I can think of that more people who need it don't take advantage of this.

 

[praguehawk]

No one is going to enter the market to sell insulin cheaper and undercut big pharma.

Stop and think why that paradigm exists.

So there are no generic medicines out there and no new drug companies have entered the market in the last 25 or so years? Because it’s impossible due to regulations? Or actually both of those things have happened and you are just wrong.

 

[seminole97]

Ther is no r&d on insulin. It was developed decades ago. Stop defending the indefensible.

Wrong.

According to a 2017 Lancet paper on insulin price increases, “Older insulins have been successively replaced with newer, incrementally improved products covered by numerous additional patents.” The result is that more than 90 percent of privately insured patients with Type 2 diabetes in America are prescribed the latest and costliest versions of insulin.

 

[NoleATL]

I’m curious what all GoodRx covers? I’ve had to use it before for a drug my insurance didn’t cover and the price went from like $300 to about $18.

I"ve used it a few times myself and it can be a good alternative for common prescriptions. Not sure you can get insulin with it.

 

[Tfxchawk]

Right, we’re back to the argument that the US is special and that things that work everywhere else can’t work here. It’s magic.

It works there because we pay for it. We subsidize their medical systems especially on drugs and innovation. They get to offer what they do because the US and it's citizens pay for it.