How much is Nicky boy gonna have to pony up to gut these two? Should strongly consider diverting the NIL money that was supposed to go to recruits last offseason to rebuilding the coaching staff.
Brands Contract Buyout
- Thread starter Hawkfan019
- Start date
The obvious questions are:
1. Can you even divert NIL money to a coach? The donors may get very upset by that even if it is allowed to divert the funds. They donated with the understanding it was for NIL for athletes. Don't expect to see a bump in donations after the bait and switch of NIL money.
2. When you clean house and hire a new coach, you will have diverted funds, so now you have less NIL money for athletes... ey for recruiting, so
you are setting the next coach up for failure.
3. And, after firing the coaching staff, who do you get that is better?
Op, I had assumed your post was made last night after having a few drinks.... but, I double checked the time stamp. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are fighting a hang over. Your point is valid, but I am picking on you (unfairly perhaps, for the NIL comment).
However, Iowa is certainly not performing at expectations lately. But, most other programs would love to have the inflated standards of Iowa Wrestling and the scrutiny that goes with it. Why, because those inflated standards were earned and established through performance. Tom has still won 4 NCAA titles, and is still within one 4 year class of his last one. I personally don't think you can do better right now that TnT, but it is time to overhaul the assistant ranks and the HWC. High level recruits are not impressed when Morning* approaches them..... not really ever a marquee name..... Who are the marquee names in HWC other than Spencer (who has yet to do anything at the Senior level? But, he may earn the 57kg spot in the Trials and medal at the 2024 olympics, but as of yet, nothing... ) Recruits are starstruck/impressed with what is currently in the wrestling room, coaches and RTC athletes. Just my opinion, but Iowa needs to replace their assistants with well known, high level performers that made an Olympic run in 2024 etc. maybe they didn't quite make the team, or perhaps they competed in the 2024 Olympics and are in need of a career beyond competing. Look at Iowa during the heyday. Top level performers were in the room training, mentoring, competing.... Use funds to recruit/lure away top level guys to train in Iowa City under HWC.... It currently is not happening. Why? Is it TnT, and Daniel Dennis are not attracting those athletes, or is it they have not pursued them, but instead use the HWC to keep Iowa guys around helping the current group of Iowa wrestlers.... I love the guy, but The Bull is not going to cause a top level recruit with Olympic dreams to come to Iowa. But, look at what PSU has... Dake, Snyder, Gilman (none went to PSU) plus, Taylor, Retheford etc.... recruits want that kind of wrestler in the room regardless of whether or not they get to roll around with them. They know there is a knowledge base and the example being set they want to follow, especially the path to the Olympics they want to follow. When Iowa dominated, go back and recall who was in the room training for HWC....
Currently, there is not one member of the US National Team in the HWC... and only one wrestler that won an NCAA title, and not one US Open, or World Team Trials / Final X finalist... That is not cutting it. Tom is in charge, the AD should step in and tell Tom, the standards at Iowa for wrestling are ridiculously high, but only because Iowa is capable of reaching those standards, and we are not. Clean out the staff (except Terry) and get some real coaches that appeal to today's recruits.... The AD can't tamper with the RTC, but the overhaul of both should be done. If you want to know why PSU dominates, it is because Sanderson, in the beginning, had the allure Gable had back in the day.... then the powerhouse continues because the success brings in recruits, while the guys training in the room lead to better recruits, and are at a totally different level than what is at other schools (Dake, Snyder, Gilman, Retheford, Nolf, Taylor).
Clean out the assistant ranks, hire recently competing top level guys (not a fat IMar etc... like Illinois did...). Money should go to get new assistants, get HWC athletes that are actually relevant (go ahead and still retain what you have, The Bull, DeSanto, of course, Lee... and keep trying to increase NIL funds.... success breeds success, decline leads to further decline...
But we’ve done most of that before with no change in results. We’ve had Hand, Zadick, Schwab, Frayer, Backes, Lofthouse, Morningstar, Perry, Dennis, Telford, Rutt, Berhow, Eustice, etc. cycle through those positions. We’ve had Mocco, Zadick, Metcalf, Ramos, McDonough, Lee, Dennis, etc. cycle through the club. Results don’t change unless we make a change at the top.
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Who would be your number one, realistic choice? Honest question- I’m not against a change per se, but other posters, PSU fans included, seem to believe there’s no one out there who’s worth rolling the dice on
It’s not going appear like anyone is a better option if you’re only looking at the results of other head coaches’ teams because we have the second best results. That’s not in dispute. However, looking at it that way is not apples to apples because we also have an incredible tradition, administrative support, fan base, etc., which nobody else can match and which help to buoy our results. Because of this, we need to be willing to take a chance on someone.
Maybe we take a chance on someone with huge name recognition, such as someone with huge international success who has recently retired. Maybe we take a chance on someone outside the college ranks. Maybe we take a chance on another head coach who seems to have a knack for getting the best out of their guys or has a reputation for doing more with less. Or, potentially even a highly-respected assistant coach.
Given the above options, I think the following names should all be considered:
Jordan Burroughs (if retiring)
David Taylor (if retiring)
Kyle Snyder (if retiring)
Kyle Dake (if retiring)
Bill Zadick
Ben Askren
Pat Popolizio
Damion Hahn
Brian Smith
Rob Koll
Tom Ryan
Casey Cunningham
Cody Sanderson
Coleman Scott
Some are certainly more realistic than others and some are better options than others, but it’s time to take a chance. Brands is a good coach and I’m not taking that away from him. He’s especially good at producing top 10ish wrestlers. But, he hasn’t shown what is needed to unseat PSU even remotely consistently and he’s been at it for a long time.
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No, not really, your argument is grossly flawed and actually reinforces everything I posted. Lofthouse? not a factor, not a marquee name, not ever on US National Team... irrelevant...
same for Perry, came in having winning 2 NCAA titles, but he came as an out of shape HWC coach, was never EVER a factor on the freestyle scene... so irrelevant, and not a factor, not a draw. Morning* not a marquee name, not a factor, never sniffed any senior level success etc. Travis Rutt? What? Travis Rutt? Rutt was 1x AA at WI, did not AA at Oklahoma after he transferred... qualified for Olympic Trials once in Greco = not a factor or Marquee name, and he came in 1 year as strength coach... You fail again with your argument. You are actually proving my point. McD never had a career after Iowa, b/c shoulder etc. was torn apart, and he had to hang it up... McDonough did make 1 US National Team in 2014. McD was still in iowa City when Iowa landed Lee, but McD left for WI later in 2018. You listed some big names in Mocco, Ramos, Dennis, Lee, but I already acknowledged Lee, and you went over a span of about 15 years.... how many were here at the same time, and how was Iowa doing during that period? Correct, more big names coaching/HWC, the better the results. Thank you for acknowledging.
1 big name guy at Iowa at a time is not going to do it.
A carousel of a handful of mid-level guys rotating through, or one big name in town at a a time does not in any way address what I posted. a marquee name here and there over 15 years is a joke. Nice try. Give Tom the ultimatum. Get rid of your dead weight coaches (who I am sure are great people, and great coaches, but they are not going to get Iowa back on top with X's and O's, rolling on the mat with athletes, and they aren't going to impress recruits), they are not going to land the top recruits or develop them to the high standard Iowa wrestling demands. And, HWC needs to invest in wrestlers that actually make World Teams and win medals....
Or the simple answer is Tom isn’t going to do it and you’re scapegoating everyone else because you have some weird loyalty to the Brands bros. instead of to the program itself. Most of the guys in the Nittany Lion Wrestling Club were developed by Cael (Taylor, Nolf, Retherford, Nick Lee, Ruth when he was there, Megaludis when he was there, Nickal when he was there, Wright when he was there, Brooks, Starocci, Kerkvliet, etc.). Snyder and Dake are recent additions. Gilman left Iowa for NLWC right from under Tom’s nose.
Why hasn’t Tom built the HWC stable with his own guys like Cael did if that’s the biggest problem? And if that’s the biggest problem, why are you under the impression Tom can suddenly change this issue? Sounds like another strike against Brands to me. But you want to focus on addressing the symptom instead of looking at the source.
And, as far as hiring assistant coaches with great wrestling resumes, was Cunningham better than Terry? Was Cody drastically better than Morningstar? Was Kennedy drastically better than Telford? Were they drastically better than Schwab, Zadick, Frayer, Perry, Dennis, Eustice, etc.?
You sound angry and arrogant. Did I ruffle your feathers by disagreeing with you? Did I touch on a sensitive subject for you? Why the emotional outburst? Does this mean I’m over the target and this triggers you?
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So what if a lot of the NLWC were "developed" by Cael et al? Why did they go there in the first place? They were already top level recruits coming in and they saw PSU as the best place to grow and become Olympic and World Champions... I don't believe TnT take a back seat to that. Where Iowa is clearly deficient is in the rest of their staff, and with the HWC athletes... Gilman left because of Lee - Lose gilman, but you have Lee, is a wash in my book if Lee is able to get back to what we thought he would be.. And, the more recent additions of wrestlers to the NLWC (Snyder, Dake etc.) is exactly my point. While NLWC adds Dake, Snyder, etc.. Iowa adds Warner, Marinelli, etc. See the difference yet?
The PSU wrestlers you mentioned went there because of the belief they could achieve their Olympic Dreams by going there. Kirkveliet left Ohio State (do you remember Kirkvliet was at Ohio State, and he left almost immediately after Snyder left... Why, because as a recruit, Kirkvliet went to Ohio State because of his wanting to be around Snyder... The recruit's decision was based on the RTC athlete(s) training there... Which Iowa does not have except for Lee...
you keep supporting my point (other than our disagreement on Tom and Terry hitting the road). BTW, Megaludis is working in finance in Pittsburg and has been finding time to train while still working a real job... he isn't at NLWC. The ultimatum to make is, Tom, you need to make the changes to your staff, or bye, bye.... Tom's stubbornness / loyalty is holding him back. I don't think you will get a better coach, so try and keep him, but have him make the changes he needs to make. If he doesn't make them and adjust, then, bye bye Tom.... Btw, I'm not arrogant, or emotional, just typing out my thoughts...
We agree to some extent. A change needs to be made. The change you want is for Tom to be gone. Clean house from the top down... I want TnT to stay, but they must implement needed changes or else they should be gone. I thought I stated that in my previous post. Make the changes Tom or hit the road.
HWC board members??? What is the mission?
"The Hawkeye Wrestling Club Exists to promote wrestling in Iowa and America by producing honorable elite level athletes through high level wrestling opportunities.
There are very few who can deny the sense of pride felt when one of our nation’s athletes stands atop the podium on the world stage, with a gold medal draped around his neck. Especially when it’s a homegrown talent from the state of Iowa."
Is there such a commitment to Iowa wrestlers that prevents the HWC from recruiting and retaining elite wrestlers who wrestled elsewhere? If so, then expectations of the Iowa program should be downgraded considerably.
What's Jake Hebert up to? Or Chance for assisiants.
NO need to move on from the Brands.
This is just a perfect storm down year.
Things happen.
This is just a perfect storm down year.
Things happen.
JB supposedly not interested in coaching so not including him. Dake, Taylor and Snyder all big name recognition guys. I'd put Taylor and Dake a bit higher than Snyder on coaching confidence. Askren obviously knows what he is doing, I think he would excel. Pat Pop's accomplishments at NCST have been impressive. I think he would level up with the Iowa brand at his disposal. Cunningham is a star in coaching ability, couldn't go wrong there.
It's more than a 1 year issue. He's not turning anything around.
But based on your logic, wouldn’t Gilman want to train with Lee since these guys want to be around the best guys? If Gilman left because of Lee, why didn’t Brooks leave because of Taylor? Why didn’t Nolf leave because of Dake?
You’ll notice I said Megaludis when he was there. Based on that, you tell me. Does it seem like I think he’s still in the NLWC?
You say they went to PSU because they believed that’s where they needed to go to be the best in the world. At the beginning, the NLWC didn’t have the big names. So, why did they go? Why did they believe that’s where they’d be able to accomplish those lofty goals? Because of Cael, right? Then Cael helped them accomplish those goals and they stayed. Why is this not happening at Iowa?
This begs the question, why hasn’t Tom built the HWC to the same level with the guys that came through his program the way Sanderson did with the NLWC? Don’t you think maybe that’s on Tom? No? You still think that’s on our many assistants over the course of Tom’s tenure? Let’s keep changing that and see if things suddenly change? Really?!?
I can’t see hiring a head coach that has never recruited let alone been the head of a college program.
But if I can get past that, Askren would be an interesting choice. The kids know him from being on FRL, his MMA career and he’s shown he can develop young wrestlers. And he’s got personality.
Was shocked to see Tom Ryan named. I think he runs a great program but I don’t see him as a step up from Brands.
You’re missing Mike Grey on your list though. If a move was made now, you’d want him IMO.
Maybe Coleman Scott in a couple years if the success at OKST continues.
But the whole thing is silly. You’ve been 1-3-2 the past three seasons and were the favorites the cancelled postseason before that. No one gets fired with that recent success.
But if I can get past that, Askren would be an interesting choice. The kids know him from being on FRL, his MMA career and he’s shown he can develop young wrestlers. And he’s got personality.
Was shocked to see Tom Ryan named. I think he runs a great program but I don’t see him as a step up from Brands.
You’re missing Mike Grey on your list though. If a move was made now, you’d want him IMO.
Maybe Coleman Scott in a couple years if the success at OKST continues.
But the whole thing is silly. You’ve been 1-3-2 the past three seasons and were the favorites the cancelled postseason before that. No one gets fired with that recent success.
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Yeah, I think Tom Ryan is a lateral move and the weakest name on the list I provided probably. Mike Grey is a great mention.
It’s not silly. We’ve won one team title in 13 years and not been close the other years (even when finishing 2nd). This is Iowa wrestling. The standard is higher. It’s not silly.
Did Lee Kemp win the Olympics in 1980?
I said, early on, Sanderson had the allure of Gabje and that led to the building and reloading of the program. We all know Gilman left b/c he saw Ler as a top contender, and wanted to be in n another room b/c of that.
For those mentioning Tom Ryan, he is a terrible choice. Personally, I may be one of the few people on the board that love the guy, but he is not better than TnT, not even close. Tim b befits greatly from having the state of Ohio to recruit from, and western PA is just a couple hours away. As of now, Ohio State also has the best facilities which helps. Ohio State guys (except for a select few) don’t develop. Tom Ryan runs a great program, but his strengths lie in creating a culture of positive support, and a close knit brotherhood. There are reasons why Tomasello won the NCAAs as a freshmen, then list to Gilman, Clark, and Lee in the NCAA semis three consecutive years after NATO beat them in the Big tournament. Quite simply my, Ryan and company were out coached, and had a specific game plan for victory. Also, the guy really getting his hands dirty with the day to day coaching was Liu Roselli, and the Ohio State slide coincided with Lou going to Oklahoma. Now that Lou is back in Columbus, we’ll see if his impact returns as well.
If Tom leaves, I think the formula is obvious: Get a David Taylor, Dake,or Burroughs etc. and bring in big name RTC athletes and assistant coaches with them.
While it may be off the wall and probably not possible I keep wondering if anyone has approached Jody Strittmatter. He coaches one of the most successful clubs in America and has handled plenty of high level wrestlers.
Isn't he like 45 now? Gable became Iowa head coach at 28. Cael became head coach of ISU at 27 and of PSU at 30. John Smith became head coach of OSU at 26. Brands became head coach of VT at 26, and of Iowa at 28. There is a trend there. Get your head coach while they are still young and front page news. Newer ideas. Name recognition. Still full of vim and vigor.
That said, I don't advocate Tom's departure. No one I would select at this point has coaching experience. Instead, I would send Terry to the HWC and hire one of the current Olympic studs as Asst Head Coach. A Head-coach-in-waiting as they say. Dake is 32. DT is 33. JB is 35. SLee is 25. Nolf is 28.
FYI - Every one of Gable/Cael/Tom/John was an assistant for at least one year before becoming a head coach.
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DT, Dake, Nolf, and anyone with ties to the PSU culture ain't interested in anything Iowa until after Tom and Terry are long gone.
No one can say that before the discussion is had. The problem is that none of them have HC experience or even assistant HC experience. That said, if Iowa offered one of them $500k per year with a >$1M annuity for meeting certain goals, and full autonomy on assistants, I am positive at least one of them would listen, and listen hard to the pitch.
... and if a rich alum could pony up several million to fund the HWC, then all the better.
Tom just helped raise $30+ million for a new facility. He isn't being fired any time soon.
Brands was 28 when he won the 1996 gold medal, so I think you're off by about a decade for him.
You are right. My counting was poor lol. Still, innovating a program is a younger man’s game.
Bringing in someone like Retherford or Nolf following this upcoming olympic cycle in my view would infuse some different/good energy into the room and recruiting. Both those guys seem like they would 'fit' the culture while also expanding it in a positive way. A little harder to identify 'obvious' guys at heavier weights, but the timing seems right to expand in those directions as well: some guys will be looking for a change or simply to move on after this upcoming cycle, and it makes way more sense, to me, to bring in some talent/fresh energy than it does to mess with the operation in a top down way. Signed, Captain Obvious
Some of you are taking the last two losses a little hard. Everyone knew this year was going to be extra tough bc of the gambling situation. Iowa is still contending to finish as high as second, let's see how this season plays out. Nobody was touching Penn state this year. They may have the best team in history even with two of their starters out.
I did think the last extension was too much. There should be some good talent retiring after this Olympic cycle. Get Jordan Burroughs! There's no way he walks away from the sport but I don't see him competing anymore after this year.
I did think the last extension was too much. There should be some good talent retiring after this Olympic cycle. Get Jordan Burroughs! There's no way he walks away from the sport but I don't see him competing anymore after this year.
I understand that probably does factor in, but goodness gracious that should be so far down the list when it comes to evaluating a coach.
I've been saying what people are thinking/saying now for a few years.
Minus a year or so, PSU has been a dynasty for over a decade now.
Wake up people, unless you enjoy second place.
We need to CHANGE something.
Some of you are taking the last 13 years a little easy.
I'm all for getting another coach. Cael and team are steps ahead right now. Iowa needs a new look imo I'm just not sure who moves the needle drastically. Needs to be a JB, Dake or Taylor type guy.
I have nothing against the Brands. Maybe what needs to be done is replacing the assistant coaches with coaches that the younger kids have heard of.
can't speak for everyone here but my concerns started in 2012 when it became apparent that the 2010 class was not a reload and PSU was off an running. That concern continued until 2020-21 when I had some hope it was changing.
Now I'm back to concerned.
Taylor and Ruth were the blueprints. Nolf, Nickel, and Retherford laid the foundation.
kills me to think Iowa almost had 2/3.
Getting spencer gave Iowa wrestling a false sense of rejuvenation imo. An all timer can make any program look like it’s turning around but unless you get a Spencer Lee every other year, it’s doesn’t sustain itself.
None of the names you mentioned will ever do any better than Tom. I do agree that assistant shakeup is probably needed, but your hating on TB in every f'ing post won't help us either. I'll leave it to the guys around here who are associated with the HWC to defend whatever is going on over there. My guess is that the HWC would benefit far more if you wrote them a check instead of sharing your "advice."
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