Bright spots

owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
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Iowa, Cedar Rapids
lol

Look at him right now. If he entered the portal and you were a B1G coach in need of a 3/4, would you go after him? Keep in mind that B1G coaches not named Fran also have defense in mind.

Full candor — I‘m not crazy about either of his kids. Never have been. Never will be. To me, both of them (likely will be all three…ugh) soak up a high major, P5 scholly that likely could have and should have been given to a player that could improve the team more than either of them do. Sure…PMac is a legit D1 player. So what? Is he the best player at that position that Iowa could have offered a scholly to? Not sure at all about that. And that’s ok.

This idea that you have to love the coach’s kids in order to be a good fan is stupid.

P.S. Not crazy about his wife either.
So basically, you admit you are just jealous and that is why you can't be objective. Good to know.

You really think other P5 schools wouldn't take a guy with PMac's experience, pedigree, and overall production?
 
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Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
16,350
22,548
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This team is built for offense. Offense means shooting. If this team doesn't shoot well it's going to be in trouble against decent teams.

3-17 against TCU and 6/29 against Richmond in 3 pointers exposes any and all flaws this team has.

Iowa is not going to win many rock fights.
 

iabcuda

HR MVP
Gold Member
Mar 15, 2010
1,340
1,679
113
Our offense is built to run. Shooting threes on the break is part of that. I wish we had more shooters.
 
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Herklejerk

Team MVP
Jul 10, 2022
237
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So basically, you admit you are just jealous and that is why you can't be objective. Good to know.

You really think other P5 schools wouldn't take a guy with PMac's experience, pedigree, and overall production?
“jealous?” Huh?

”pedigree?” lol. WTF are you even talking about?

Are there P5 schools that would take PMac? Of course. Northwestern is one. Ga Tech is another. There are lots that would take him. He’s a legit P5 player (if you don’t care much about rebounding and defense).

However, — and this is nuance so try really, really hard to focus — that’s a very different question than “Are there better players than PMac that the university of Iowa could have landed?” To my mind, the answer is indisputably YES. Obviously the same answer for his sick post feeding, cerebral brother.

No sense in crying over spilled milk. Unfortunately, they have already soaked up the schollys and minutes and will continue to do so. I just want to see us make the most of it.
 
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owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
4,747
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Iowa, Cedar Rapids
Our offense is built to run. Shooting threes on the break is part of that. I wish we had more shooters.
The guy who is supposed to be the sharpshooter - Sandfort - is not really hitting anything. That is the main problem. If Sandfort shoots like he can/should, that opens up more space for everyone.

Also, the other two guys that would be considered "shooters" - Kris and PMac - have been inconsistent shooting at best and realistically have struggled against the better competition.

If those 3 can start hitting a clip closer to what is expected, that makes things a lot different.
 

owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
4,747
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
“jealous?” Huh?

”pedigree?” lol. WTF are you even talking about?

Are there P5 schools that would take PMac? Of course. Northwestern is one. Ga Tech is another. There are lots that would take him.

However, that’s a very different question than “Are there better players than PMac that the university of Iowa could have landed?” To my mind, the answer is indisputably YES. Same for his sick post feeding, cerebral brother.

No sense in crying over spilled milk. They have already soaked up the schollys and minutes. I just want to see us make the most of it.
Do you not understand what those words in quotes mean?

You think Iowa lands a lot of players that are better than the Composite 85th ranked player in the country most years?

You show your jealousy with your low hanging fruit jab at CMac. Rather than understand the games you are watching, your resentment takes over. It has been beaten to death what CMac's role on the team is/has been and been proven time and again why he has been valuable to what has been a good team during his time.

Hate to break it to you but so far CMac isn't even getting starter minutes but he has the 2nd best Defensive metrics of anyone in the rotation (behind Perkins) and is 2nd in Steals, 4th in Assists, and 5th in Rebounds. Also, he is shooting by far the best % from 3 and realistically should be shooting more.

Nobody said you have to love the coaches kids to be a good fan ... you also don't have to hate the coaches kids and have bias toward them that is illogical in order to be a "real" fan as you probably convince yourself you are.
 

Herklejerk

Team MVP
Jul 10, 2022
237
384
63
lol Telling the truth about these kids is “hating” them.

Whatevs…they’re both great, and of tremendous value to the team.

Let‘s win.
 

HawkLogic

HR Legend
Feb 20, 2011
14,212
10,582
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“jealous?” Huh?

”pedigree?” lol. WTF are you even talking about?

Are there P5 schools that would take PMac? Of course. Northwestern is one. Ga Tech is another. There are lots that would take him. He’s a legit P5 player (if you don’t care much about rebounding and defense).

However, — and this is nuance so try really, really hard to focus — that’s a very different question than “Are there better players than PMac that the university of Iowa could have landed?” To my mind, the answer is indisputably YES. Obviously the same answer for his sick post feeding, cerebral brother.

No sense in crying over spilled milk. Unfortunately, they have already soaked up the schollys and minutes and will continue to do so. I just want to see us make the most of it.

PMAC career is roughly on par with the Hauser guy that went to Marquette/MSU. Hauser was the board's wet dream for awhile--he has good offense, but is a defensive liability. I don't know that Fran missed out on guys because we took PMAC because I don't think Fran was in on any skilled/athletic 6'8 guys. That is why Fran took the chance on the unknown Murrays and that paid off better than anyone could have dreamed. I do agree most P5 teams would not want Pmac because he is a 6'9 wing that views rebounding/defense as optional,. PMACs offense would make him a decent guy to bring off the bench and he probably could go to lot of places to be a backup.

I think CMAC is the guy that cost us recruiting because there was a 3 year period during CMAC's senior year in high school to his 2nd year at Iowa where CMAC was being groomed as the PG of the future. Fran wasn't recruiting PGs with pedigree during that time because he had the dream that CMAC would be White Magic II.
We ended up with Ellingson/Dailey as backup PGs for 1 season, CW washed out and transferred, JBO had to start as a Freshman and then we ended up with JBO as starting PG for 5 years. JBO did bring shooting, but defense suffered.

So far we've had a Tom Davis type experience with Fran. Little bit above 0.500 B1G ball , ncaa tourney appearances, but sweet16 ncaa or better---so far elusisve.
 

Herklejerk

Team MVP
Jul 10, 2022
237
384
63
PMAC career is roughly on par with the Hauser guy that went to Marquette/MSU. Hauser was the board's wet dream for awhile--he has good offense, but is a defensive liability. I don't know that Fran missed out on guys because we took PMAC because I don't think Fran was in on any skilled/athletic 6'8 guys. That is why Fran took the chance on the unknown Murrays and that paid off better than anyone could have dreamed. I do agree most P5 teams would not want Pmac because he is a 6'9 wing that views rebounding/defense as optional,. PMACs offense would make him a decent guy to bring off the bench and he probably could go to lot of places to be a backup.

I think CMAC is the guy that cost us recruiting because there was a 3 year period during CMAC's senior year in high school to his 2nd year at Iowa where CMAC was being groomed as the PG of the future. Fran wasn't recruiting PGs with pedigree during that time because he had the dream that CMAC would be White Magic II.
We ended up with Ellingson/Dailey as backup PGs for 1 season, CW washed out and transferred, JBO had to start as a Freshman and then we ended up with JBO as starting PG for 5 years. JBO did bring shooting, but defense suffered.

So far we've had a Tom Davis type experience with Fran. Little bit above 0.500 B1G ball , ncaa tourney appearances, but sweet16 ncaa or better---so far elusisve.
Someone accuses you of wanting Lickliter back in 3…2…1…

lol
 

owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
4,747
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
PMAC career is roughly on par with the Hauser guy that went to Marquette/MSU. Hauser was the board's wet dream for awhile--he has good offense, but is a defensive liability. I don't know that Fran missed out on guys because we took PMAC because I don't think Fran was in on any skilled/athletic 6'8 guys. That is why Fran took the chance on the unknown Murrays and that paid off better than anyone could have dreamed. I do agree most P5 teams would not want Pmac because he is a 6'9 winhat views rebounding/defense as optional,. PMACs offense would make him a decent guy to bring off the bench and he probably could go to lot of places to be a backup.

I think CMAC is the guy that cost us recruiting because there was a 3 year period during CMAC's senior year in high school to his 2nd year at Iowa where CMAC was being groomed as the PG of the future. Fran wasn't recruiting PGs with pedigree during that time because he had the dream that CMAC would be White Magic II.
We ended up with Ellingson/Dailey as backup PGs for 1 season, CW washed out and transferred, JBO had to start as a Freshman and then we ended up with JBO as starting PG for 5 years. JBO did bring shooting, but defense suffered.

So far we've had a Tom Davis type experience with Fran. Little bit above 0.500 B1G ball , ncaa tourney appearances, but sweet16 ncaa or better---so far elusisve.
Jesus Christ man ... how many times do you have to post wrong information until you stop.

You don't think most P5 teams would not take PMac on their team to be part of their rotation?

Your CMac take is ridiculous. Ellingson was at Iowa 3 yrs before CMac. Dailey was there the year before. In the 2 years before CMac, they offered SEVEN 4 star PG's (Glynn Watson, Traci Carter, Tony Carr, Payton Pritchard, Zavier Simpson, Charlie Moore, & TJ Gibbs) before getting JBo, who was supposed to be the PG of the future (not CMac, who wasn't even recruited as a PG) and in CMac's first two years, they were trying to lure in big fish DJ Carton, as well as other 4 Star guys in Tyger Campbell, Tyrell Terry, & Tre Wood.

JBo was there BEFORE CMac and they continued to try and get 4 star PG's after CMac was there - and probably was hopeful they were going to land Carton specifically.

Also, the difference between Dr. Tom and Fran is that Fran's program continues to get better ... Dr. Tom's did not. Fran had to burn the Licklighter residue and start from scratch. Now, in the past 5 years Fran is winning at a 60% clip in Big Ten, they have won a Conference Tournament Championship, been ranked every year and in NCAA Tourney every year (Dr. Tom missed on NCAA 3 of his last 6 yrs) and have 3 4-Star and 2 high 3-Star players coming in the next two years.

The next step is Sweet 16 but the program is trending in the right direction overall.
 

owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
4,747
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
The Hawkeyes need to improve rebounding
Patrick is not sufficiently motivated to rebound
Sandfort would sharp elbow his mother to get a rebound.
Give Sandfort more of Patrick's minutes
They are virtually the same in Rebounds Per 40 Minutes. Both players have been inconsistent this year but reality is neither one is playing much better than the other.
 
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ROHawk 44

Team MVP
Jan 1, 2022
185
290
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This is spot on, and has nothing to do with taking a shot at his Dad. He is not built for this level, athletically or mentally. The game is more than hanging out around the perimeter waiting for the ball to find you, while others are in mixing it up. He's 6'9" and 3 years in. AAU ball ended long ago. Been there, done that.
You nailed it right there. He defends and rebounds like he is playing AAU. He kind of goes for rebounds but not really. He rotates, but always a little late.
 
May 27, 2021
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It’s all right to say that our recruiting the three through five the past ten years has been outstanding. And also fair to say our recruiting of guards has been below average to poor. Hopefully Tony, Bowen and co are changing that narrative. I think it’s all right to say Connor has been playing well and maybe deserves to play more now. And also all right to say he probably deserved to play a lot less minutes the past two seasons.
 
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Bulldogs1974

HR Legend
Oct 16, 2012
10,379
10,096
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I can't believe we are still complaining about either of the McCaffery boys being allowed to play. No one complained about Patrick after the Clemson game and Connor, while not getting that many minute to start with, makes the best of them when he's in. It's just taking an underhanded shot at the coach.
no one has ever complained about pmacs lack of defense/rebounding/toughness. lol. He has an occasional good shooting game, the rest is not good.
Cmac has improved in the area he needed to to earn minutes....shooting. he's earned them. I would just ask what fran player has played an entire half and should that player have been cmac?
you can't tell me that resting a guy one minute before a tv timeout hurts anyone in the long run.
 

Bulldogs1974

HR Legend
Oct 16, 2012
10,379
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For the most part Josh is a liability defensively.

He can hold his own the 3 or 4 times a game someone tries to back him down or score over him but he struggles big time in ball screens and thats most of what defense is anymore at his position.

He is a good rebounder though.
I think he is a solid back up post defender. should warrant 6-8 minutes a game, every game.
 

owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
4,747
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
It’s all right to say that our recruiting the three through five the past ten years has been outstanding. And also fair to say our recruiting of guards has been below average to poor. Hopefully Tony, Bowen and co are changing that narrative. I think it’s all right to say Connor has been playing well and maybe deserves to play more now. And also all right to say he probably deserved to play a lot less minutes the past two seasons.
I agree with your first 3 points but not with your last one ... CMac literally had the EIGHT most minutes last year. I am not sure where people come up with this narrative that he plays all of these minutes and is scavaging minutes from other players. He has played the minutes of an off-the-bench versatile but not great scorer role player ... which he has always been. But if he keeps hitting 2-3 3's a game on top of that at the shooting pct clip he has been ... he probably should play starter minutes.
 

owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
4,747
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
no one has ever complained about pmacs lack of defense/rebounding/toughness. lol. He has an occasional good shooting game, the rest is not good.
Cmac has improved in the area he needed to to earn minutes....shooting. he's earned them. I would just ask what fran player has played an entire half and should that player have been cmac?
you can't tell me that resting a guy one minute before a tv timeout hurts anyone in the long run.
At this point, the rebounding and defensive stats don't back-up Sandfort OR PMac playing the majority of the minutes over the other.

The minute CMac came in, they played better and he was a stabilizing force the whole 2nd half. I doubt Fran wanted to play ANY of those guys that played most of the minutes in the 2nd half as much as he did ... but he obviously felt comfortable that they were going to bring it home down the stretch. I don't know how many times over the years I have seen fans constantly complain about Fran playing too many guys and making wholesale substitutions ... we can't now be mad that he's playing guys too much when they are the guys playing well. I mean, Kris played 39 minutes.
 
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iahawks10

HR Legend
Nov 3, 2001
12,736
16,244
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no one has ever complained about pmacs lack of defense/rebounding/toughness. lol. He has an occasional good shooting game, the rest is not good.
Cmac has improved in the area he needed to to earn minutes....shooting. he's earned them. I would just ask what fran player has played an entire half and should that player have been cmac?
you can't tell me that resting a guy one minute before a tv timeout hurts anyone in the long run.

How can a player who didn’t start either half play the entire half?
 
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jonesy5960

HR Heisman
Sep 6, 2012
6,697
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At this point, the rebounding and defensive stats don't back-up Sandfort OR PMac playing the majority of the minutes over the other.

The minute CMac came in, they played better and he was a stabilizing force the whole 2nd half. I doubt Fran wanted to play ANY of those guys that played most of the minutes in the 2nd half as much as he did ... but he obviously felt comfortable that they were going to bring it home down the stretch. I don't know how many times over the years I have seen fans constantly complain about Fran playing too many guys and making wholesale substitutions ... we can't now be mad that he's playing guys too much when they are the guys playing well. I mean, Kris played 39 minutes.
I'm kind of the same mindset right now. Neither Patrick nor Sandfort is playing particularly well. Let's be honest and agree that these 2 guys are getting paid to make 3's and they have the worst EFG% on the team so far. Patrick looked like he was going to take rebounding more seriously but the last few games have looked more like the rest of his career. Sandfort looks a lot more like his first games last year than his last. Hopefully both of these guys can turn it around because this team isn't going to be very good with only Kris, Tony, and Rebraca playing efficient basketball out there.

I'd be in favor of giving Bowen some additional minutes in place of Sandfort, Pmac, or Cmac to see what he can do. He seems to have a lot of upside.
 
May 27, 2021
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I agree with your first 3 points but not with your last one ... CMac literally had the EIGHT most minutes last year. I am not sure where people come up with this narrative that he plays all of these minutes and is scavaging minutes from other players. He has played the minutes of an off-the-bench versatile but not great scorer role player ... which he has always been. But if he keeps hitting 2-3 3's a game on top of that at the shooting pct clip he has been ... he probably should play starter minutes.
Yea. You are probably right about last year. Maybe I was thinking more of Keegan’s freshman year, so two years ago.
 

owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
4,747
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
I'm kind of the same mindset right now. Neither Patrick nor Sandfort is playing particularly well. Let's be honest and agree that these 2 guys are getting paid to make 3's and they have the worst EFG% on the team so far. Patrick looked like he was going to take rebounding more seriously but the last few games have looked more like the rest of his career. Sandfort looks a lot more like his first games last year than his last. Hopefully both of these guys can turn it around because this team isn't going to be very good with only Kris, Tony, and Rebraca playing efficient basketball out there.

I'd be in favor of giving Bowen some additional minutes in place of Sandfort, Pmac, or Cmac to see what he can do. He seems to have a lot of upside.
I have said it in other thread ... I am not in favor of CMac giving up minutes right now. I am fine if he plays a lot with the way he is playing. Besides Kris, he is the guy I have most confidence in when taking a 3 pt shot right now.

Sandfort and PMac - they need to get their heads on straight because the team will need them to be able to hit shots down the stretch.

But CMac is doing well at basically everything. Besides his leadership and ability to calm the team down, he is the best passer (both as a post feeder and just finding the open man), he is rebounding and defending at a high level, he takes care of the ball, and the cherry on top is his shooting. He is playing as efficient as the 3 guys you mentioned.
 

Bulldogs1974

HR Legend
Oct 16, 2012
10,379
10,096
113
How can a player who didn’t start either half play the entire half?
You really want to quibble over the 30-40 seconds before sandfort was subbed out. Fran usually subs around the 13 min mark and maybe goes 13 total before subbing stars.
Cmac playing 19 is highly unusual.
 

kceasthawk

HR Legend
Nov 5, 2016
12,999
15,167
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lol

Look at him right now. If he entered the portal and you were a B1G coach in need of a 3/4, would you go after him? Keep in mind that B1G coaches not named Fran also have defense in mind.

Full candor — I‘m not crazy about either of his kids. Never have been. Never will be. To me, both of them (likely will be all three…ugh) soak up a high major, P5 scholly that likely could have and should have been given to a player that could improve the team more than either of them do. Sure…PMac is a legit D1 player. So what? Is he the best player at that position that Iowa could have offered a scholly to? Not sure at all about that. And that’s ok.

This idea that you have to love the coach’s kids in order to be a good fan is stupid.

P.S. Not crazy about his wife either.
And you know his wife how exactly, other then the rumor mill?
 

kceasthawk

HR Legend
Nov 5, 2016
12,999
15,167
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What conclusions?

Were there ever any threads praising John Lickliter’s sick post feeds or his “cerebral“ play? lol. Because we have had plenty of those here about CMac.

Posts drooling over highlight vids of Frans youngest kid scoring against 5’0“ 8th graders on some horse shit AAU team? lol. It’s cult level delusion for many (not all) here.

Learn to read a room, dummy.
Have you ever had a kid play high level AAU ball? I have, and many travel extensively and play top teams from around the country. If he's a name on the AAU circuit, then be assured its not some "horse shit AAU team". I sense that your just here to throw shade on anything to do with Fran and his family, so do what you do, and I'm sure you'll get the appropriate response.
 

Buffalo43

HR MVP
Sep 20, 2011
2,286
2,144
113
Pmac is in a tough spot because he and Fran believe his game is suited for driving/slashing to the hoop. In reality, he doesn't have the frame, handles or left hand to play this style effectively. IMO, Pmac adds the most value as a catch and shoot guy whether it be beyond the arc or mid-range. He has a decent arsenal of floaters, runners and step backs but all require space that he struggles to create himself. Fran could help out by running some sets for him to get some clean looks.
Agree isolate him
 

Buffalo43

HR MVP
Sep 20, 2011
2,286
2,144
113
I have said it in other thread ... I am not in favor of CMac giving up minutes right now. I am fine if he plays a lot with the way he is playing. Besides Kris, he is the guy I have most confidence in when taking a 3 pt shot right now.

Sandfort and PMac - they need to get their heads on straight because the team will need them to be able to hit shots down the stretch.

But CMac is doing well at basically everything. Besides his leadership and ability to calm the team down, he is the best passer (both as a post feeder and just finding the open man), he is rebounding and defending at a high level, he takes care of the ball, and the cherry on top is his shooting. He is playing as efficient as the 3 guys you mentioned.
I say let's start kris sanfort Ulis perkins and Rebracha pmac off the bench
 

jonesy5960

HR Heisman
Sep 6, 2012
6,697
11,731
113
I have said it in other thread ... I am not in favor of CMac giving up minutes right now. I am fine if he plays a lot with the way he is playing. Besides Kris, he is the guy I have most confidence in when taking a 3 pt shot right now.

Sandfort and PMac - they need to get their heads on straight because the team will need them to be able to hit shots down the stretch.

But CMac is doing well at basically everything. Besides his leadership and ability to calm the team down, he is the best passer (both as a post feeder and just finding the open man), he is rebounding and defending at a high level, he takes care of the ball, and the cherry on top is his shooting. He is playing as efficient as the 3 guys you mentioned.
I have no problem with Cmac getting minutes. He's a fine role player and plays as hard as anyone on the court. What he does he does pretty well. He just doesn't do enough of it IMO to warrant starter minutes and he's averaging 26.5 over the last 2 games.

You say he is rebounding and defending at a high level. He's OK, but he's really not doing either of those things at a high level. He's rebounding at a slightly lower rate than Pmac and Sandfort putting him at 6th on the team. He's definitely a solid defender but he's often out-quicked by guards and shot over by bigger forwards.

You say he's a great passer which I won't argue with, because he is, but his assist rate is 6th best on the team, behind Tony, Ulis, Ogundele, Sandfort, and Bowen. Probably the biggest factor behind that is because he
rarely if ever breaks down a defense resulting in open looks for others. That's what Tony, Ulis and Bowen are able to do.

With respect to his shooting percentage he looks great, but he rarely shoots resulting in just 5.4 pts per game. I used to make fun of people saying CJ was this lights out offensive weapon. Yeah, he shot a high percentage but it was only to the tune of around 8 points per game. The guy only shot it when he was wide open which wasn't often enough.

In terms of overall efficiency, Cmac's PER is seventh putting him below everyone getting minutes except for Bowen and Ulis. His 16.8 rating is actually way below the three that I mentioned. As a point of reference Kris, Tony and Rebraca are at 31.4, 22.5, and 21.7 respectively so no, he's not as efficient as they are.

As an aside, he catches a lot of crap on here, but Ogundele's numbers in his limited minutes have been excellent. On a per 40 basis, he's 2nd in blocks, 1st in steals, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 2nd in EFG%, and all of that results in the 2nd best PER on the team. Crazy right? I don't think he gets enough credit for what he can do.
 
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RocknRollface

HR Legend
Dec 21, 2011
11,456
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I have no problem with Cmac getting minutes. He's a fine role player and plays as hard as anyone on the court. What he does he does pretty well. He just doesn't do enough of it IMO to warrant starter minutes and he's averaging 26.5 over the last 2 games.

You say he is rebounding and defending at a high level. He's OK, but he's really not doing either of those things at a high level. He's rebounding at a slightly lower rate than Pmac and Sandfort putting him at 6th on the team. He's definitely a solid defender but he's often out-quicked by guards and shot over by bigger forwards.

You say he's a great passer which I won't argue with, because he is, but his assist rate is 6th best on the team, behind Tony, Ulis, Ogundele, Sandfort, and Bowen. Probably the biggest factor behind that is because he
rarely if ever breaks down a defense resulting in open looks for others. That's what Tony, Ulis and Bowen are able to do.

With respect to his shooting percentage he looks great, but he rarely shoots resulting in just 5.4 pts per game. I used to make fun of people saying CJ was this lights out offensive weapon. Yeah, he shot a high percentage but it was only to the tune of around 8 points per game. The guy only shot it when he was wide open which wasn't often enough.

In terms of overall efficiency, Cmac's PER is seventh putting him below everyone getting minutes except for Bowen and Ulis. His 16.8 rating is actually way below the three that I mentioned. As a point of reference Kris, Tony and Rebraca are at 31.4, 22.5, and 21.7 respectively so no, he's not as efficient as they are.

As an aside, he catches a lot of crap on here, but Ogundele's numbers in his limited minutes have been excellent. On a per 40 basis, he's 2nd in blocks, 1st in steals, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 2nd in EFG%, and all of that results in the 2nd best PER on the team. Crazy right? I don't think he gets enough credit for what he can do.
A lot of good points here.

Playing against a zone is a perfect scenario for Connor. Against a good man to man team, which is most BIG teams, he doesn't have nearly the impact because as you said he really can't create off the bounce.

This teams reaching its potential depends much more on Bowens development.
 

jonesy5960

HR Heisman
Sep 6, 2012
6,697
11,731
113
lol

Look at him right now. If he entered the portal and you were a B1G coach in need of a 3/4, would you go after him? Keep in mind that B1G coaches not named Fran also have defense in mind.

Full candor — I‘m not crazy about either of his kids. Never have been. Never will be. To me, both of them (likely will be all three…ugh) soak up a high major, P5 scholly that likely could have and should have been given to a player that could improve the team more than either of them do. Sure…PMac is a legit D1 player. So what? Is he the best player at that position that Iowa could have offered a scholly to? Not sure at all about that. And that’s ok.

This idea that you have to love the coach’s kids in order to be a good fan is stupid.

P.S. Not crazy about his wife either.
Wow. Normally people using the "hater" label irritate me to no end, but you really do take this "I don't like the McCaffery family" stuff quite literally. I can maybe understand the scholly thing although it seems like they've always been available anyways. But what do you have against the wife?
 

Ronman

HR Heisman
Jan 4, 2004
9,919
8,763
113
Planet Iowa
How often have we heard people bitch about McCaffery not playing his best players? Well, like it or not, right now Connor is one of his best players. So he should sit more just because of his last name? Over this past week, we don't beat Clemson without Patrick and we don't beat Georgia Tech without Connor.
 

shudaddy

Team MVP
Jul 27, 2021
168
243
43
A lot of good points here.

Playing against a zone is a perfect scenario for Connor. Against a good man to man team, which is most BIG teams, he doesn't have nearly the impact because as you said he really can't create off the bounce.

This teams reaching its potential depends much more on Bowens development.
Conner made a HUGE difference against their zone D when he entered the game in 2nd half.
 

iahawks10

HR Legend
Nov 3, 2001
12,736
16,244
113
You really want to quibble over the 30-40 seconds before sandfort was subbed out. Fran usually subs around the 13 min mark and maybe goes 13 total before subbing stars.
Cmac playing 19 is highly unusual.

Actually Sandfort was subbed in. He didn’t start either half as well. The box score says 70 seconds before Sandfort and Connor came in for Ulis and PMac. But your numbers are probably more accurate.

Of course I’m guessing the start of the 2nd half and GT’s run had something to do with early substitutions. PMacs misses a three and then got beat on a curl cut for two. Next time down, Ulis got beat on a back cut, but at least made GT earn the two at the FT line. Then both got pulled.

Fran does like to sub the starters around the 13 minute mark, but we’ve seen him pull them earlier when the other teams get off to fast starts. We just saw it happen Saturday vs TCU. We saw at Maryland back when Luka was here. It happens. CMac playing 19 is unusual in the past two seasons, but you can’t sit there and say that he didn’t earn every minute he got on Tuesday. Besides Kris and that pink shoes Kelly kid from GT, Connor played the best out there.

Fran was asked about it in the post game and repeated what several in the game thread had said. “It was a weird game” and he wanted to get a few other guys in (assuming Bowen, Dix, Ogundele). But I don’t believe he named any one in particular. He said that he has a lot of confidence in the guys who played in the 2nd half and rode with them. I don’t get the butt hurt about minutes after a win. X played this many minutes Y only got that. It baffles me. And yes, I’d like to see Bowen get more minutes, PT, etc…. I think the kid is going to be a good one and an asset even this season.
 
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owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
4,747
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
I have no problem with Cmac getting minutes. He's a fine role player and plays as hard as anyone on the court. What he does he does pretty well. He just doesn't do enough of it IMO to warrant starter minutes and he's averaging 26.5 over the last 2 games.

You say he is rebounding and defending at a high level. He's OK, but he's really not doing either of those things at a high level. He's rebounding at a slightly lower rate than Pmac and Sandfort putting him at 6th on the team. He's definitely a solid defender but he's often out-quicked by guards and shot over by bigger forwards.

You say he's a great passer which I won't argue with, because he is, but his assist rate is 6th best on the team, behind Tony, Ulis, Ogundele, Sandfort, and Bowen. Probably the biggest factor behind that is because he
rarely if ever breaks down a defense resulting in open looks for others. That's what Tony, Ulis and Bowen are able to do.

With respect to his shooting percentage he looks great, but he rarely shoots resulting in just 5.4 pts per game. I used to make fun of people saying CJ was this lights out offensive weapon. Yeah, he shot a high percentage but it was only to the tune of around 8 points per game. The guy only shot it when he was wide open which wasn't often enough.

In terms of overall efficiency, Cmac's PER is seventh putting him below everyone getting minutes except for Bowen and Ulis. His 16.8 rating is actually way below the three that I mentioned. As a point of reference Kris, Tony and Rebraca are at 31.4, 22.5, and 21.7 respectively so no, he's not as efficient as they are.

As an aside, he catches a lot of crap on here, but Ogundele's numbers in his limited minutes have been excellent. On a per 40 basis, he's 2nd in blocks, 1st in steals, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 2nd in EFG%, and all of that results in the 2nd best PER on the team. Crazy right? I don't think he gets enough credit for what he can do.
I respect the opinion and we can agree to disagree.

I know it is not always cut and dry with advanced stats but CMac is either almost dead even or ahead of Sandfort and PMac in most cases.

Of the 8 guys who are playing most of the minutes (cut off after Bowen but before Josh O), he has the 2nd best DBPM, only behind Perkins. Sandfort is actually 6th out of those 8 and PMac is actually above him in 5th ... and they both are a good amount behind CMac.

OBPM they are all virtually the same but CMac's Offensive Rating is actually the BEST of on the team of guys in the regular rotation. Defensive Rating those 3 are all virtually the same.

With the PER, all 3 again are right in a row with CMac at the bottom of the 3 and PMac actually higher than both Sandfort and CMac.

Like I said, I never know how serious or not serious to take these advanced metrics - and things can be cherry picked - but looking at them all in Offensively and Defensively, CMac has performed at a little higher level than those two guys. So I do want him on the floor over those guys more until either Sandfort or PMac picks up their game and plays more consistently.

With rebounding, I might have overstated. Probably recency bias from the other night. But he does a solid job and definitely isn't a "liability" in that sense.

With the scoring/shooting ... you are right ... he should be shooting more, especially with how confident he has been and looked this year. I think his nature is to get his teammates involved and always look for the "best shot", not worry about getting his points. I even pointed out to my son at the game to watch CMac when he gets the ball - he is the one guy who catches the ball and immediately looks down low to the post or guys cutting. He understands the idea more than anyone else on the team of getting the guys and team an easy bucket if it is there. Yeah, he is a great passer and he doesn't do that breaking down defenders like Perkins, Ulis, and Bowen can but he also doesn't force bad shots - like those 3 do occasionally when driving.

To your point about defending, I don't agree and the metrics would back-up that he is defending at a high-level on this team. I think it is exactly because he is able to defend Guards and Forwards that make him so valuable. I watched him closely the other night on defense and saw him cut of the drive of quicker, smaller Guards a couple of times that I don't see from some of the other players. He used angles and positioning. Just like Woodbury never got as much credit as he deserved Defensively because he didn't block shots but he was really good at the little minute things like positioning, using angles, using the sideline/baselines.

I think the issue in your comparison is you are using stats for the year while comparing that he has had starter minutes just the last 2 games.

I am not comparing CMac to Kris, Perkins, or Rebraca. Those guys should play the most minutes and they are the top 3 in minutes - CMac is only 6th on the team in minutes. But at this point, CMac should be getting more minutes than Sandfort and PMac because he is more consistent and more versatile.

The team has noticeably been more calm and under control when CMac has come in for Sandfort or PMac. I know people on here like to make fun of CMac and intangibles but it's obvious he is a floor general, a coach on the floor that they look for to calm things down and he is smart and makes good decisions.

Are Sandfort and PMac maybe more talented and have more potential - yeah, probably - but until they can harness that, I have no problem with him getting more of their minutes and being on the floor in crunch time.

As for Josh O, that interesting on his advanced stats ... I do wonder how they would look if he logged more minutes and if they would regress because he still doesn't seem to be in shape to log serious minutes.

Lastly, like everyone ... I do want to see Bowen get some more time. I think Fran is struggling how to use him and just has a lot of trust in Perkins and Ulis right now (I don't think a line-up of Perkins, Ulis, and Bowen on the floor is a great idea most of the time).
 

owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,068
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Iowa, Cedar Rapids
Actually Sandfort was subbed in. He didn’t start either half as well. The box score says 70 seconds before Sandfort and Connor came in for Ulis and PMac. But your numbers are probably more accurate.

Of course I’m guessing the start of the 2nd half and GT’s run had something to do with early substitutions. PMacs misses a three and then got beat on a curl cut for two. Next time down, Ulis got beat on a back cut, but at least made GT earn the two at the FT line. Then both got pulled.

Fran does like to sub the starters around the 13 minute mark, but we’ve seen him pull them earlier when the other teams get off to fast starts. We just saw it happen Saturday vs TCU. We saw at Maryland back when Luka was here. It happens. CMac playing 19 is unusual in the past two seasons, but you can’t sit there and say that he didn’t earn every minute he got on Tuesday. Besides Kris and that pink shoes Kelly kid from GT, Connor played the best out there.

Fran was asked about it in the post game and repeated what several in the game thread had said. “It was a weird game” and he wanted to get a few other guys in (assuming Bowen, Dix, Ogundele). But I don’t believe he named any one in particular. He said that he has a lot of confidence in the guys who played in the 2nd half and rode with them. I don’t get the butt hurt about minutes after a win. X played this many minutes Y only got that. It baffles me. And yes, I’d like to see Bowen get more minutes, PT, etc…. I think the kid is going to be a good one and an asset even this season.
It was definitely 18 minutes and something mark in 2nd half that he pulled Patrick and Ulis (I believe). He was pissed, as he should of been, because they gave up 7 quick points in under 2 minutes to cut the lead to 4 I think.

Nothing wrong with that and it was the right move.