I never said it was wrong...it was your Gish Gallop response to a simple question which I have asked again above. Can you respond on point?
Carl Sagan on the Existence of God
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
He was correct. The city fell to the Medo-Persian armies in 539. Although it didn’t happen immediately the prophecy that it would end up in ruins and uninhabited has proven true . Attempts were made in more modern times to restore Babylon And it’s never happened, fulfilling prophecy that it would never again be inhabited.
I’m curious about your extreme distrust on the details of this account . Is there a specific reason why you doubt the Bible’s prophecy regarding Babylon and Isaiah writing it down 200 years before it happened? Do you simply not believe that Isaiah was the writer ?
LOL...there was no "Medo-Persian" army. The Medes were conquered...they weren't allies. And the Persians didn't kill every single person in Babylon as "prophesied" - in fact, it appears there was minimal loss of life. And people continued to live there for hundreds of years. So you're rather cynically rewriting the truth to shoehorn it into Isaiah's incorrect "prophecy" just as I suspected you would.
How do you figure there was no army ? Do you have proof of that ? You seem to provide no real facts in your response. And yes you’re right people did live there for a time after 539 but it began a decline down to ruins and desolation and has remained there since .
And since you have the truth about that situation I’m eager to read of any facts or proofs you may have .
It appears through all this that you are simply wanting to prove the Bible false, and to challenge prophecy . For what purpose is the question?
Last edited:
Can you seriously NOT read what I posted. I never said there was no army, I said there was no "Medo-Perisan" army. You cynically make that claim to put the Medes at the fall of Babylon and it's total bullshit. The Medes were conquered by the Persians - they were NOT their allies. That's a fact.
MEʹNE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end. 27 “TEʹKEL, you have been weighed in the balances and found lacking. 28 “PEʹRES, your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and the Persians.
Sure looks like the prophet Daniel mentioned the Medes and Persians together. Is he wrong too ?
Sure looks like the prophet Daniel mentioned the Medes and Persians together. Is he wrong too ?
LOL...can you time stamp that statement? I'm sure you would contend it was written by Daniel himself. So how old was he when he wrote it?
so now you doubt that Daniel wrote the book of Daniel? LOL
It’s clear this is going nowhere . From your arguments it’s clear you are on some sort of crusade against the Bible.
Best we move on …
It is widely accepted among biblical scholars that Daniel was written in the second century BC. Daniel was almost certainly a fictional character - though largely drawn upon a real person from 600BC.
This stuff isn’t a crusade against the Bible. It’s simply academics.
Last edited:
I don't know that consensus is the right term.
Who Wrote the Book of Isaiah?
Scholars generally accept that the Book of Isaiah was at least partially written by the prophet Isaiah, during the eighth century BC. Evidence of other…
The statement the Bible attributes to Daniel was made on the night Babylon was conquered by Cyrus. But Daniel would have known that Cyrus had defeated the Medes more than a decade previously and overthrown their king. There was no Median empire for the Persians to split with. It was in all the papers.
And if I'm "on a crusade", it's against those who take the Bible as literal truth and history. The Bible itself is a great work of historical fiction. Lots of real history interwoven with made-up stories. You've acknowledged that Isaiah got it wrong and we can now demonstrate that whoever wrote Daniel...centuries after the fact...didn't have a tight grasp on history.
Last edited:
You’re right, 2 rocks colliding and all the bullshit that followed to “create life” is way more plausible 😳
Why does this bother you?
Think of "probably" as "best evidence." Do you have better evidence?
Would you rather Britannica tell us what crappy evidence shows?
LOL and what scholars are those that think Daniel was fictional ? Look if you choose to believe some imperfect men over the Bible that’s your choice. And there is more than enough evidence Daniel was a real person . In fact Your Lord and savior quoted from the prophet Daniel by name in his words at Matthew 24:15. You really think Christ would say that if Daniel wasn’t real ?
Again you’re more willing to believe human philosophy over accepting that the Bible as gods word.
Last edited:
@the24fan
Yet, you've already admitted the Bible got it wrong in regard to Babylon vis-a-vis Isaiah's apocalyptic "prophecy". And we've demonstrated that whoever wrote Daniel didn't work with an accurate timeline. It's got to be difficult to swallow that and still maintain inerrancy. The mental gymnastics have to be exhausting.
Yet, you've already admitted the Bible got it wrong in regard to Babylon vis-a-vis Isaiah's apocalyptic "prophecy". And we've demonstrated that whoever wrote Daniel didn't work with an accurate timeline. It's got to be difficult to swallow that and still maintain inerrancy. The mental gymnastics have to be exhausting.
LOL yeah ok . We’ll have a nice day sir. Good luck with your future . I’m sure it’s gonna turn out well .
And by the way you haven’t presented anything as fact , just your own opinions. And don’t give me your encyclopedia stuff. Like I said you’re a non believer I get it .
The creeping Charlie in my grass warrants more attention than continuing in this endless arguement with you I’m afraid .
We will end just having to disagree .
As I said, the book of Daniel seems to have used a real person as the inspiration. But unlike Isaiah - which is generally believed to have at least partly have been written by him - Daniel appears to have been written by a group of writers, none of whom were the actual man himself.
This is a case of either blindly following a book based on its own claim to have been divinely inspired, or to search for truth using our reasoning skills. I has nothing to do with "human philosophy" and everything to do with an earnest search for truth based on best evidence.
The Jehovah's Witness cult is dripping with mental gymnasts.
The overthrow of the Median empire in 550 BC is fact based on the records. The fall of Babylon in 539 BC - more than a decade later - is also fact. That you ignore those facts is part of the mental gymnastics you play to maintain your belief system. That you can ADMIT Isaiah is wrong yet still maintain otherwise...that's just dumb.
Hope you have better luck with your weeds.
you’re the expert apparently. Thanks for the best wishes on my weeds . Maybe we can agree on Petras needs to play a heck of a lot better for the Hawks to have a good season .
Of course not. Does anyone?
Mutations are generally considered to be random, but once we had replicating molecules, the evolution of RNA and DNA became pretty much inevitable.
Nope...nothing "random" about it. You put certain building block molecules together in the right environment and they will assemble with no need for divine intervention.
So something like that....a code or medium if you will....came from just randomness?
I have no idea what you mean by that. You can push the "God created the medium" angle...but that's just a god of the gaps - the idea that god exists in those areas of science we don't yet understand. That's a recipe for a god that gets smaller and smaller and smaller as science advances.
As Carl Sagan said in the clip that (I'm guessing) few here actually watched, if you want to call the laws of nature "God" . . . go right ahead.
I mean we already have a perfectly good term for that, namely "the laws of nature" but "God" is easier to type.
Just remember that God, so defined, doesn't listen to prayers, grant salvation, or any of that nonsense.
If I accept the laws of nature as my Lord and Savior, do I get a prize?
@JRHawk2003 you're wasting your time. @tarheelbybirth doesn’t believe in a creator or intelligent design . However we agree on the complexity of life and the wonders of our planet being just the right distance to the sun , all the natural systems in place etc to conclude there was intelligence in the creation of life. The evidence is there. People just choose to ignore it .
Romans 1:20 describes it perfectly :
For His invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even His eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable
The Old Testament has over 100 prophecies of Jesus, some with amazing detail, all written 100-1000+ years before His arrival.
The Bible also correctly prophesies the restoration of Israel in the modern day and its success, which considering the circumstances, is like saying Ball State will make the CFP, win it all, and continue to roll for years to come!
None of this means you should automatically accept the God and Jesus in one breath. However, for these facts alone it should spark an incredible amount of academic and intellectual curiosity. The fact that our resident lovers of academia wish to brush this aside is astonishing. A book written hundreds and thousands of years prior made astonishing claims that came true. That is worthy of lifelong curiosity and inquiry at the least.
The Bible also correctly prophesies the restoration of Israel in the modern day and its success, which considering the circumstances, is like saying Ball State will make the CFP, win it all, and continue to roll for years to come!
None of this means you should automatically accept the God and Jesus in one breath. However, for these facts alone it should spark an incredible amount of academic and intellectual curiosity. The fact that our resident lovers of academia wish to brush this aside is astonishing. A book written hundreds and thousands of years prior made astonishing claims that came true. That is worthy of lifelong curiosity and inquiry at the least.
I love calling Nature "God." It makes sense and feels better. God likes it, too.
Similar threads
