Close friend pleading with me to not vaccinate our baby

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

My wife is 38+ weeks pregnant with child #1 and we are expecting the arrival any day. We have taken courses, read books on sleeping, etc., spent an outrageous amount of money on stroller, crib, etc. and are very excited.

I have been acutely aware of the controversy around vaccinations and an alleged link to autism, but because I had no kids, I never looked into it. From what I can tell, there have been no scientific studies that prove causation between the MMR vaccine (generally given at around 8 weeks) and autism. The anti-vaccination movement has been largely grassroots (parents of austistic kids who were supposedly healthy before the vaccine) and a Dr. Wakefield in the U.K. Hollywood types like Robert De Niro and Jenny McCarthy have also hopped on board.

Fast forward to today, a dear friend (well-educated, level-headed father of two) started pleading with me to not vaccinate. He went so far as to say that our friendship means far too much to him to allow me to make the mistake of vaccinating, and asked that I meet up with him to discuss. My friend believes that the vaccinations are a huge money-maker for "Big Pharma," who is in bed with the CDC. He is a great guy and friend, but his behavior seems almost cultish. We are both committed Christians, and he compared his pleading with me about vaccinations to sharing the Gospel of Christ with an atheist friend.

Obviously, we would not do anything that could increase the risk of our child having autism. With that said, my look at the data seems to indicate that the odds of vaccine-induced autism (or other complications) are less than the odds of contracting disease due to not vaccinating.

What say you, HROT?

 

[herkyhawk00]

May I ask if he is a brainwashed student from Palmer? Serious question.

 

[traderhawk]

My wife is 38+ weeks pregnant with child #1 and we are expecting the arrival any day. We have taken courses, read books on sleeping, etc., spent an outrageous amount of money on stroller, crib, etc. and are very excited.

I have been acutely aware of the controversy around vaccinations and an alleged link to autism, but because I had no kids, I never looked into it. From what I can tell, there have been no scientific studies that prove causation between the MMR vaccine (generally given at around 8 weeks) and autism. The anti-vaccination movement has been largely grassroots (parents of austistic kids who were supposedly healthy before the vaccine) and a Dr. Wakefield in the U.K. Hollywood types like Robert De Niro and Jenny McCarthy have also hopped on board.

Fast forward to today, a dear friend (well-educated, level-headed father of two) started pleading with me to not vaccinate. He went so far as to say that our friendship means far too much to him to allow me to make the mistake of vaccinating, and asked that I meet up with him to discuss. My friend believes that the vaccinations are a huge money-maker for "Big Pharma," who is in bed with the CDC. He is a great guy and friend, but his behavior seems almost cultish. We are both committed Christians, and he compared his pleading with me about vaccinations to sharing the Gospel of Christ with an atheist friend.

Obviously, we would not do anything that could increase the risk of our child having autism. With that said, my look at the data seems to indicate that the odds of vaccine-induced autism (or other complications) are less than the odds of contracting disease due to not vaccinating.

What say you, HROT?

You're friend is dumb. Herd inoculation is critical. If his major argument against vaccines is a monetary link to Pharma, ask him to explain the societal monetary costs drastically reduced by herd inoculation. It's truly a no brainer.

 

[The Tradition]

Tell your friend that it's none of his GD business and to step back, Jack!

 

[like-woahh]

Your cultish leanings are correct. I'm going to guess he's an Answers in Genesis Christian?

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Your friend doesn't sound like a very good friend.

 

[Raglefant]

Hrot is much more reliable.

 

[Bloody Run Hawk]

Please vaccinate your baby. Don't listen to your friend and all the fake studies out there.

 

[iahawks10]

I didn't see (no pic), so is that an option?
I'm gonna need a picture of your pregnant wife in order to pass judgement. It's kind of my fetish.

 

[Doodads and Hoohah]

all of the above

 

[BubsFinn]

Your close friend is an idiot.

 

[Hawkeye3087]

I try to at least appear open minded with people that have the opposite views of me.

But your friend is a moron and sounds like a total weirdo. I would assume someone was playing a joke on me if I dealt with this - it's that weird. Or maybe you're just trolling here......

Does he acknowledge the dangers of not vaccinating?

 

[jscott78]

Is a child worth losing a close friend over?

My wife is 38+ weeks pregnant with child #1 and we are expecting the arrival any day. We have taken courses, read books on sleeping, etc., spent an outrageous amount of money on stroller, crib, etc. and are very excited.

I have been acutely aware of the controversy around vaccinations and an alleged link to autism, but because I had no kids, I never looked into it. From what I can tell, there have been no scientific studies that prove causation between the MMR vaccine (generally given at around 8 weeks) and autism. The anti-vaccination movement has been largely grassroots (parents of austistic kids who were supposedly healthy before the vaccine) and a Dr. Wakefield in the U.K. Hollywood types like Robert De Niro and Jenny McCarthy have also hopped on board.

Fast forward to today, a dear friend (well-educated, level-headed father of two) started pleading with me to not vaccinate. He went so far as to say that our friendship means far too much to him to allow me to make the mistake of vaccinating, and asked that I meet up with him to discuss. My friend believes that the vaccinations are a huge money-maker for "Big Pharma," who is in bed with the CDC. He is a great guy and friend, but his behavior seems almost cultish. We are both committed Christians, and he compared his pleading with me about vaccinations to sharing the Gospel of Christ with an atheist friend.

Obviously, we would not do anything that could increase the risk of our child having autism. With that said, my look at the data seems to indicate that the odds of vaccine-induced autism (or other complications) are less than the odds of contracting disease due to not vaccinating.

What say you, HROT?

 

[ghost80]

Get the vaccination. Not likely vaccinations cause it although many parents with autistic kids like to think that it does.

There are plenty of autistic adults who were labeled as something besides autistic and did not receive childhood vaccinations. I know of one instance where the adult father has autistic characteristics and his son was diagnosed with autism.

Just curious, does your friend display autistic characteristics? Could be why he is on this unsubstantiated crusade against vaccinations.

Especially with the US becoming more of a melting pot over the years I'm a firm believer that the benefits outweigh the risks.

 

[stout1]

Get smarter/less crazy friends. This is just the beginning of crazy.

 

[ping72]

Be polite, take the meeting and listen to him. Tell him you'll think about it. Later politely explain you've decided to vaccinate. You're fine giving big pharma a few hundred bucks to prevent your child from suffering something like polio.

 

[FormerlyCyberCy]

My grandfather (no pics) lost 3 children to whooping cough and diphtheria and a wife and baby in childbirth before remarrying my grandmother (no pics). Can you imagine his horror and regret that he couldn't save those children from dying before his very eyes? Can you imagine him being transported into the future, seeing the amazing advancements in science and medicine?

Now crazies want to take that research in science and medicine away from your family and give you their superstition and conspiracy theory? Are you going to buy that insanity?

My kids (no pics...who started this stupid board rule) all were vaccinated. No brainer.

 

[gonegolfing]

Please share what idiot friend does for a living.

 

[ghost80]

My grandfather (no pics) lost 3 children to whooping cough and diphtheria and a wife and baby in childbirth before remarrying my grandmother (no pics). Can you imagine his horror and regret that he couldn't save those children from dying before his very eyes? Can you imagine him being transported into the future, seeing the amazing advancements in science and medicine?

Now crazies want to take that research in science and medicine away from your family and give you their superstition and conspiracy theory? Are you going to buy that insanity?

My kids (no pics...who started this stupid board rule) all were vaccinated. No brainer.

People who refuse to vaccinate their kids are selfish a$$holes. I know the thought process is that if everyone else's kids get shots mine won't need them. WRONG. What if everyone tried that or due to all the international travel what if they come into contact with someone who is infected? Even if they are willing to gamble their kids health, what if their kid gets infected and then infects an infant too young for immunizations?

IMO if you choose not to immunize your kid, they cannot attend a public daycare, a public school, any form of welfare, and cannot receive a passport even into adulthood.

 

[SSG T]

My wife is 38+ weeks pregnant with child #1 and we are expecting the arrival any day. We have taken courses, read books on sleeping, etc., spent an outrageous amount of money on stroller, crib, etc. and are very excited.

I have been acutely aware of the controversy around vaccinations and an alleged link to autism, but because I had no kids, I never looked into it. From what I can tell, there have been no scientific studies that prove causation between the MMR vaccine (generally given at around 8 weeks) and autism. The anti-vaccination movement has been largely grassroots (parents of austistic kids who were supposedly healthy before the vaccine) and a Dr. Wakefield in the U.K. Hollywood types like Robert De Niro and Jenny McCarthy have also hopped on board.

Fast forward to today, a dear friend (well-educated, level-headed father of two) started pleading with me to not vaccinate. He went so far as to say that our friendship means far too much to him to allow me to make the mistake of vaccinating, and asked that I meet up with him to discuss. My friend believes that the vaccinations are a huge money-maker for "Big Pharma," who is in bed with the CDC. He is a great guy and friend, but his behavior seems almost cultish. We are both committed Christians, and he compared his pleading with me about vaccinations to sharing the Gospel of Christ with an atheist friend.

Obviously, we would not do anything that could increase the risk of our child having autism. With that said, my look at the data seems to indicate that the odds of vaccine-induced autism (or other complications) are less than the odds of contracting disease due to not vaccinating.

What say you, HROT?

First, there are no ties between vaccinations and autism. The doctor that started that whole idea admitted he lied and falsified his paper. The problem is that the anti-vax people had that idea planeed in their head by that point, so no amount of data will change their mind.

Second, if (according to your friend) it's nothing more than a money grab, ask your friend this. If vaccinations are a big lie, why are there very rarely deaths from things like polio, smallpox, measles and the like? See what his answer is. If it's anything other than "because people have access to vaccinations" he's a nut case.

I'm not a big supporter of big pharma, and I do think they put money first. However, it's more a case of their practices with overcharging and the effects that has on limiting access to drugs than any idea that they are filling the world with crap vaccinations.

 

[FormerlyCyberCy]

Two of my kids (no pics) are serving in the military. They got a battery of immunizations on top of their childhood immunizations. Is this whacko against military service?

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

The great irony here is that the reason people like your friend think the way they do is that vaccines have been so successful. If it was about 1920, your buddy would be the first one clamoring for a vaccine for his kid.

 

[TexMichFan]

Listen to what he has to say and then do your own research and make the decision you feel is best for your child. I think you know what the answer is already but you have some time so listen and research. The least of the issues should be whether big Pharma is making money or not.

Congrats on the upcoming addition to your family.

 

[Joes Place]

One of the resident anti-vaxxer idiots on here linked "data" which "indicated" that measles had already decreased in the USA before the measles vaccine was rolled out.

I looked at his "wonderful data", went to the actual data sources and demonstrated for him that his "source" was mixing up measles vaccine rollout dates in Great Britain (4 years LATER than in the US) with the US measles incidence data. When using all US data, with the vaccines US rollout date, the decline in measles was stupidly obvious that it occurred WITH vaccinations; when you use the GB data with the GB vaccine rollout date, you get the same. That is either an insanely STUPID mistake and oversight, or it is intentional disinformation.

Take home message: DO NOT believe anything any anti-vaxxer blog tells you about vaccines - most of it is BS and provably wrong. Ask your damn pediatrician, and ask them what THEY do with THEIR kids (hint: they vaccinate!!).

FYI...I posted a thread on here a week ago that a pilot study identified with >80% accuracy early autism onset based on brain scans of babies at 12 months old....well BEFORE any MMR vaccines have been administered. If that result is replicated in a larger study, I suspect there are going to be prospective evaluations of autism onset vs. timing of vaccines within the next few years to conclusively settle any debate - the retrospective data already cannot find any correlations (which of itself, with the massive databases is highly reliable information): prospective data are how you formally prove no causation.

The reason the anti-vaxxers can keep maintaining this myth is because the typical timeframe that autism symptoms are noticed by parents happens to occur around the same age range that MMR vaccines and boosters are delivered. It gives rise to loads of anecdotal stories, which have the same scientific merit as "wearing your favorite T-shirt helps your team win ball games"....

 

[joelbc1]

Hime....sometimes you just have to tell others to mind their own business. This is sometimes awkward but sometimes it is liberating. Do yourself and momma favor and have your child vaccinated as advised.

 

[Joes Place]

Listen to what he has to say and then do your own research and make the decision you feel is best for your child. I think you know what the answer is already but you have some time so listen and research. The least of the issues should be whether big Pharma is making money or not.

Congrats on the upcoming addition to your family.

No; listen to your damn doctor. Too many people "do their own research" and do not have the critical thinking skills (EDIT: nor the time and effort) to parse the BS from the actual science.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Get the vaccines.

One of the big reasons our population has jumped so much is because we invented vaccines and kids stopped dying of diseases at young ages. There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism but even if they did I'd rather have him have autism then have him dead. This is one of the things about the anti-vaxxer movement that doesn't make sense to me. For all their incorrect beliefs, they prioritize "preventing autism" over protecting their child's lives.

I have 3 kids, they are all vaccinated.

One thing I will note is that the MMR vaccine is scheduled at about 1 year of age. At about this time kids start transitioning from baby into toddler. So one can easily see how someone might get their kids vaccinated and start noticing changes soon after.

For example my youngest just got the MMR vaccine this last week on Thursday. This last weekend when I was changing him on an ottoman, he got mad about the whole being changed thing and purposefully knocked the bottle I had offered him and the new diaper I was putting on him off the ottoman. Previously I he would just cry because I was interrupting his play to change him, but now he got mad and started knocking stuff on the floor on purpose.

Now I could blame the MMR vaccine and say that made my son turn into a total jerk. Or I could recognize that he's becoming a toddler and toddlers are jerks by their very nature.

 

[joelbc1]

No; listen to your damn doctor. Too many people "do their own research" and do not have the critical thinking skills to parse the BS from the actual science.

So, there was no terrorist attacks in Sweden? If you can't trust FOX, who can you trust?

 

[TexMichFan]

No; listen to your damn doctor. Too many people "do their own research" and do not have the critical thinking skills to parse the BS from the actual science.

Part of the research would be talking with the doctor.

Give the guy some credit to be able to listen to different views and then make a decision.

 

[joelbc1]

Get the vaccines.

One of the big reasons our population has jumped so much is because we invented vaccines and kids stopped dying of diseases at young ages.

I have 3 kids, they are all vaccinated.

One thing I will note is that the MMR vaccine is scheduled at about 1 year of age. At about this time kids start transitioning from baby into toddler. So one can easily see how someone might get their kids vaccinated and start noticing changes soon after.

For example my youngest just got the MMR vaccine. This last weekend when I was changing him on an ottoman, he got mad about the whole being changed thing and purposefully knocked the bottle I had offered him and the new diaper I was putting on him off the ottoman. Previously I he would just cry because I was interrupting his play to change him, but now he got mad and started knocking stuff on the floor on purpose.

Now I could blame the MMR vaccine and say that made my son turn into a total jerk. Or I could recognize that he's becoming a toddler and toddlers are jerks by their very nature.

At some point, Hoosier, genetics has to become a factor.

 

[Joes Place]

Part of the research would be talking with the doctor.

Give the guy some credit to be able to listen to different views and then make a decision.

Nonsense. You want informed opinions, you go to the experts that can provide them. You don't "do your own research" if you do not have background in the area. "Your anti-vaxxer neighbor" is neither a credible source of information, nor is it anyone who's opinion should carry any weight. OP should slap his neighbor down and tell him to mind his own f****ing business and never "advise" him again on his children's medical care. Tell him flat out: "I don't listen to crackpots; go away"

 

[herkyhawk00]

My wife is 38+ weeks pregnant with child #1 and we are expecting the arrival any day. We have taken courses, read books on sleeping, etc., spent an outrageous amount of money on stroller, crib, etc. and are very excited.

I have been acutely aware of the controversy around vaccinations and an alleged link to autism, but because I had no kids, I never looked into it. From what I can tell, there have been no scientific studies that prove causation between the MMR vaccine (generally given at around 8 weeks) and autism. The anti-vaccination movement has been largely grassroots (parents of austistic kids who were supposedly healthy before the vaccine) and a Dr. Wakefield in the U.K. Hollywood types like Robert De Niro and Jenny McCarthy have also hopped on board.

Fast forward to today, a dear friend (well-educated, level-headed father of two) started pleading with me to not vaccinate. He went so far as to say that our friendship means far too much to him to allow me to make the mistake of vaccinating, and asked that I meet up with him to discuss. My friend believes that the vaccinations are a huge money-maker for "Big Pharma," who is in bed with the CDC. He is a great guy and friend, but his behavior seems almost cultish. We are both committed Christians, and he compared his pleading with me about vaccinations to sharing the Gospel of Christ with an atheist friend.

Obviously, we would not do anything that could increase the risk of our child having autism. With that said, my look at the data seems to indicate that the odds of vaccine-induced autism (or other complications) are less than the odds of contracting disease due to not vaccinating.

What say you, HROT?

Hime, I stand by my question. Is this a former student at Palmer? Lisfen, I had my own issues with the same situation and wanted to punch my friend in the face. He came across that I was a terrible father for doing that to my kids. It is people like him that we have alerts going out in the school system that students have measles or mumps. If there was a polio scare again, your friend most likely wouldn't even get his kids vaccinated for that. It is the people that have vaccinated their kids that make it possible for him to even have a choice. The fact that he is pushing it so hard is very similar to a cultish belief and he is putting his own kids lives in danger. Every parent needs to do what they feel is best for their child, but don't do so becasuse some psycho friend is filling your head with things.

 

[Jan Itor]

Your friend doesn't sound like a very good friend.

Oh that bullshit. His friend obviously strongly believes this. So he feels he's looking out for his friends and family's best interest.

That said, his friend is full of shit.

 

[UNIHawkfan]

Unless your friend is a pediatrician or infectious disease Dr, don't even take the time to hear him out. We hesitated for about 30 seconds with our first and then I realized I trust actual doctors (like the ones who eradicated small pox), more than I do Jenny McCarthy or a chiropractor (and I have nothing against chiropractors). Watch this video, it's obviously supposed to be funny, but puts it in good perspective, "parents here are more scared of gluten than they are of smallpox"....so true.

 

[hawkmart]

I've got a friend from HS that's been brainwashed by that crap as well with constant postings of 'findings' on her facebook. My wife works in the medical field and would've kicked my a$$ if I would've brought up the hey let's not vaccinate our kids belief. Listen to your doc, get the vaccinations. The second you lay eyes on your child your friends friendship will become secondary. Congrats.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Looks like an unusual moment of near unanimity on HROT. Ignore everything you've read or been told except the part about talking to your child's pediatrician.

 

[UKGrad93]

OP's gonna need one of these:

At 38 weeks, it could be too late.

 

[eightno2002]

There are plenty of smart people that choose not to vaccinate. I disagree with them and we have vaccinated all four of our children. The only anti vaccine people I know, however, are above average intelligence.

 

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

Thanks guys. Like I said, I was 99.6% certain of my stance, but wanted to run it by this esteemed group to not only get opinions on the issue, but also to see if anybody has encountered cult-like behavior from this viewpoint.

Friend is not a chiropractor. Was educated at Hillsdale in Michigan.

 

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

And I must say, this is the most agreement I have ever seen on this board.