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Covid-19 is killing children at an astounding rate

I think one lesson we *should* have learned through all this is to wait until more data/information comes out. But being humans in 2020, we fail miserably.
"We seem to be heading toward a giant iceberg. Should we make a course change?"

"No, we've learned that lesson. We should wait until more information comes out. We shouldn't change course until then."

"And then what?"

"Well, obviously, once we have more information, we let the free market decide."
 
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https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(20)31103-X.pdf

Seems like the Italians warned us on this, but our media and CDC has been mostly silent on the coming outbreak of "Kawasaki-like disease" we will see in children, following large outbreaks of Covid.

This study has the limitations of a relatively small case series, requiring confirmation in larger groups. Genetic studies investigating the susceptibility of patients developing this disease to the triggering effect of SARS-CoV-2 should be done. Nonetheless, we reported a strong association between an outbreak of Kawasaki-like disease and the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in the Bergamo province of Italy. Patients diagnosed with Kawasaki-like disease after the viral spreading revealed a severe course, including KDSS and MAS, and required adjunctive steroid treatment. A similar outbreak of Kawasaki-like disease is expected in countries affected by the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic.

Instead, all we get is "Children are mostly immune to Covid-19."

We'd better hope this is not also a serious, long-term illness (where it's already causing inflammation leading to aortic aneurysms), because it seems like the US's inability to stem our number of cases will leave this as a legacy to the infants and toddlers of the 2020s.....:(
 
Huh?

They literally started sending out warnings to look out for these symptoms a month ago.
WHO has pushed out a memo for people to watch and track it.

This isn't a "CSI" episode. Until people know what a specific syndrome is, they have no idea what to call it or categorize it as. As I've noted already for you, several times, CDC just updated this "raw data" on their site late yesterday. The number has been there for <24 hours.

Nobody "on the ground" is going to know what's going on in a neighboring hospital, let alone across town or across the country. That's literally why we have the CDC to collect and track this data.
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/06/23/coronavirus-covid-deaths-us-age-race-14863

What is the disconnect with this report?? It has 13 kids in the US under 4 have died. And say the source is CDC.
 
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.c...py-talk-we-re-far-from-out-of-the-covid-woods

Viewpoint: Despite Happy Talk, We’re Far From Out of the COVID Woods

COVID-19 cases in many states have risen and the false narrative is that this is because of increased testing. But the rise in cases far outstrips the rise in testing.

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) epidemic has continued to spread with infections spiking in the southern States. Marked increases are seen in the states of Oklahoma, South Carolina, Arizona, Texas, and Florida. Over a two-week period, in Arizona, cases per day increased from 700 cases to over 3000, in Florida from approximately 800 to over 3000, and in Texas from 1545 to 3961. The false narrative that this is because the United States has increased testing is being spread in an attempt to mitigate these numbers. But the rise in cases far outstrips the rise in testing. And increased testing does not over the course of weeks increase COVID-19 case numbers; testing identifies and then through case-tracking and self-isolation results in decreased cases. This is how one stops an epidemic. Many countries are currently testing less than the United States, simply because their infection rates have
fallen and less tests for case-tracking are required.

The European Union has approximately the same population as the United States and the number of daily Sars-CoV-2 cases between the two is telling. Cases per day in both peaked at over 30,000. In the EU, they have fallen to a low level of 4000 per day, but in the United States they are rising, up to 24,000 and recently to over 30,000.

The narrative that the infection will burnout especially with the high rate of asymptomatic carriers is not supported by data. Recent observations in California1 and Sweden2 found lower than expected antibody levels in their populations. A recent study published in the Journal of Nature Medicine3 found that at eight weeks after discharge from a hospital, IgG coronavirus antibodies levels were decreased, with 40% of individuals who had asymptomatic infections and 13% of individuals who had symptomatic infections becoming seronegative.

The narrative that this peak in viral activity is not of concern since death rates are still falling is also misleading for three reasons. First, this new peak is being driven by a younger age group of patients as they attend bars, beaches, and college parties. They are less likely to have a fatal outcome with COVID-19 but can still easily spread the virus to their parents and grandparents. Second, deaths are a lagging indicator and may occur weeks after a positive test or symptoms develop. Finally, we now know how to better manage COVID-19 patients, including the proning of respirator-dependent patients, treating the common and deadly coagulopathies with anticoagulation, along with the use of dexamethasone, remdesivir and antibody containing serum.

Thus, death rates would be expected to fall, the best metric of this pandemic would be hospitalizations. Unfortunately, the impact of his epidemic is being mitigated by referring to patients who are discharged from the hospital as “recovered” in actuality, many are far from recovered, but merely have survived the acute viral episode.

Lasting effects of COVID-19 are all too common in patients who have been hospitalized. Unlike the flu, Sars-CoV-2 can affect almost every organ in the body. Up to 20% will develop heart damage4. COVID-19 patients are complaining of chronic fatigue5. In past SARs infections, 27% of hospitalized patients met the CDC criteria for chronic fatigue syndrome6. If a patient requires respiratory support, either oxygen administration or ventilation, pulmonary fibrosis and disability will be very common. Renal insufficiency can occur in up to a third of ICU patients. The hypercoagulability caused by the virus can cause strokes in the young7 and in children, the virus can be associated with a delayed inflammatory response, multisystem inflammatory syndrome.8

Thus, the young are not shielded from the viruses’ devastating effects. We need to take this pandemic seriously, the public needs to wear masks and practice social distancing. As stated by Avindra Nath, MD, the senior investigator at the Section of Infections of the Nervous System at National Institutes of Health: “It’s quite possible some will never get their health back.”5

 
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/06/23/coronavirus-covid-deaths-us-age-race-14863

What is the disconnect with this report?? It has 13 kids in the US under 4 have died. And say the source is CDC.

As I've noted; that WAS what CDC said as of June 17th.

Yesterday, June 23rd, they updated the demographics raw data at the link, and it stated "482" deaths for 0-4.

Yesterday evening, that was updated to "1582", and has not changed anytime today, June 24.

Only CDC knows the answers to this.
 
"We seem to be heading toward a giant iceberg. Should we make a course change?"

"No, we've learned that lesson. We should wait until more information comes out. We shouldn't change course until then."

"And then what?"

"Well, obviously, once we have more information, we let the free market decide."
Question: do we know what the iceberg will do to us and have a reasonable understanding, based off past experience, how much damage it can create? Do we know how big our boat needs to be to withstand the damage or how far off course we need to go to avoid the iceberg? Dumb analogy is dumb.
 
How exactly does anything in the thread in any way change what I posted? I'll ask again, IF children under 4 actually were succumbing to a secondary consequence of COVID why does it generally matter what the exact demographics are? TIA
As stated before, infants are different than toddlers. In order to really know how the virus affects humans, these demographics need to be separated. I assumed you hadn’t read because all of this was stated on page 1.
 

And, as has been posted: Do you see any column in that data which indicates "Kawasaki syndrome" or "MIS-C"?

Because the infants and children generally being referred to here have allegedly "cleared" the Covid-19, and developed those conditions 3 weeks later. Those numbers from the other CDC page will easily fit into the "general" bucket.

Are we hiding these numbers from the general public, because we don't want to stop our "reopening" and crash our stock market? The numbers on the raw data page still have not changed.
 
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Wow 15 whole deaths caused by COVID out of 7700 total for those 4 and under. Gee Joe, why is no one talking about it? Maybe because it’s not a fuc*** problem and you’re pushing bs to scare people.

Perhaps you should read the thread and follow the links.
 
As stated before, infants are different than toddlers. In order to really know how the virus affects humans, these demographics need to be separated. I assumed you hadn’t read because all of this was stated on page 1.
Damn...again...this is immaterial to the point. IF the information posted is accurate, it demonstrates the falsity of the claim that COVID doesn't adversely affect small children. Why you seem to think your point is important in that context is baffling. It isn't. At all.
 
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Wow 15 whole deaths caused by COVID out of 7700 total for those 4 and under. Gee Joe, why is no one talking about it? Maybe because it’s not a fuc*** problem and you’re pushing bs to scare people.

‘.....START’ calling people stupid????

Does he ever stop?


Here's your answer:

The CDC chart you linked is simply citing the Covid-19 deaths by ICD code U07.1, the official code set up for Covid-19:

https://www.icd10monitor.com/icd-10-cm-codes-spark-great-interest

Over the past few months, the folks at ICD10monitor have seen an increase in website searches regarding two specific ICD-10-CM codes: U07.1 (COVID-19) and F32.9 (Major depressive disorder, unspecified).

Some say that this is a sign of the times, and that may be absolutely true, considering what has gone on in the past four months in healthcare, across our nation and the world. I know I have read a lot about COVID-19, both clinically and regarding the diagnostic and HCPCS/CPT® coding. The diagnosis and topic of depression has also had seen an uptick in interest during our current public health emergency (PHE) timeframe. So let us take a closer look at both of these codes.

We all are very aware that as of April 1, a new code was initiated to capture and report the coronavirus, or COVID-19: code U07.1 2019, Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19). The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) released a MLN Matters edition on April 1, which also announced the new code.
But it is NOT Covid-19 directly that is killing children. It is "Kawasaki-like" syndrome, MIS-C.

And, guess what? There is NO ICD code for it.

https://www.icd10monitor.com/no-codes-for-covid-manifestations

Some doctors don’t understand how coders compliantly select codes. This can set up coding-clinical disconnects. Frankly, I don’t always get it myself, and I’m pretty good at this coding thing.

You need to use exact verbiage…except when you don’t. Like no doctor is ever going to say, “hemorrhagic disorder due to extrinsic circulating anticoagulants.” The wording of many of the social determinants of health (SDoH) will not be matched precisely by the provider’s documentation.

Sometimes, Coding Clinic gives guidance on what verbiage is allowed to go to what code, and sometimes coders just use common sense. The indexing of the verbiage of “Kawasaki disease” goes nowhere, but “Kawasaki” is a nonessential modifier for the code titled Mucocutaneous lymph node syndrome, M30.3, and “Kawasaki’s syndrome” does index there. However, a clinical documentation improvement specialist (CDIS) or coder would meet with annoyance and resistance if they asked the provider to clarify, did they mean “Kawasaki’s syndrome” when they documented “Kawasaki disease?”


Why am I bringing this up today? There are multiple manifestations of COVID-19 that make for clever acronyms, but won’t yield an ICD-10-CM code. The pediatric Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome of Children (MIS-C) is quite serious, and is manifested by different body parts becoming inflamed, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, and/or gastrointestinal organs. It is described as having Kawasaki disease-like features. There is no indexing for MIS-C. “Kawasaki disease-like features” isn’t going to get you anywhere either.

You would need the provider to specify which organs are inflamed, again, using codable terminology. Is it an unspecified arteritis (because it isn’t a chronic ischemic issue)? Is it a sequela of COVID-19, or an acute manifestation? An infective myocarditis or infective pericarditis implies that the heart is infected by the virus currently, whereas I40.8, Other acute myocarditis, might be more appropriate with B94.8, Sequelae of other specified infectious and parasitic diseases.

In the same vein, Multiple Organ Dysfunction Syndrome (MODS) indexes nowhere. Speaking as a clinician, if I had a patient with MODS from an infection, I would call that sepsis. I recommend that you educate your providers to diagnose “sepsis from COVID-19 with acute sepsis-related organ dysfunction, as evidenced by (and here they should list the specific organ dysfunctions).”

How about “COVID toes,” described as red or purple discoloration of the toes with paresthesia? Dermatologists liken it to chilblains or pernio, which is a reaction to cold exposure. They may also describe it as a vasculitis. It may be optimal for the provider to expound upon “COVID toes,” because there is no specific code for it, and the medical community is trying to maintain a registry. Perhaps “COVID toes (i.e., pernio)” would work.

Be on the lookout for new acronyms and abbreviations that may crop up as COVID-19 medicine evolves. If the provider documents a diagnosis for which there is no indexing or advice to assign a code, you may need to educate and query. We can’t monitor what we can’t measure, and we need accurate codes to measure the manifestations of COVID-19.

In other words, they aren't in your chart, because there's no place for them in the chart.
 
As stated before, infants are different than toddlers. In order to really know how the virus affects humans, these demographics need to be separated. I assumed you hadn’t read because all of this was stated on page 1.

So old people and babies don't count...got it.
 
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Damn...again...this is immaterial to the point. IF the information posted is accurate, it demonstrates the falsity of the claim that COVID doesn't adversely affect small children. Why you seem to think your point is important in that context is baffling. It isn't. At all.

He cares more about Trump getting reelected than he does children...sad.
 
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Never thought I would see the day that @unIowa would become @Joes Place’s lackey.

Me and him don't agree on a whole lot of things but taking this virus seriously is one of those things that we do share similar beliefs on.

Also I find it disturbing that so many are wanting to put their trust in politicians over medical professional especially since this is a medical crisis. My standing here simply reaffirms my anti-political stance that I consistently carry forward.
 
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Has anyone cross-checked the ICD code for vaccine damaged kids (VAERS) that have symptoms matching Kawasaki’s, PMIS, MODS, MIS-C, etc?

I have a friend that posed that rhetorical question to me, so there may be something relevant lost in the translation.

He/she was also wondering if maybe the forever ethically compromised CDC was using the real/imagined Covid crisis to shift some attention on their potential liability to another culprit.

Needless to say my friend is kind of a cynic and a conspiracy buff.

:p:p:p
 
https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(20)31103-X.pdf

Seems like the Italians warned us on this, but our media and CDC has been mostly silent on the coming outbreak of "Kawasaki-like disease" we will see in children, following large outbreaks of Covid.

This study has the limitations of a relatively small case series, requiring confirmation in larger groups. Genetic studies investigating the susceptibility of patients developing this disease to the triggering effect of SARS-CoV-2 should be done. Nonetheless, we reported a strong association between an outbreak of Kawasaki-like disease and the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in the Bergamo province of Italy. Patients diagnosed with Kawasaki-like disease after the viral spreading revealed a severe course, including KDSS and MAS, and required adjunctive steroid treatment. A similar outbreak of Kawasaki-like disease is expected in countries affected by the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic.

Instead, all we get is "Children are mostly immune to Covid-19."

We'd better hope this is not also a serious, long-term illness (where it's already causing inflammation leading to aortic aneurysms), because it seems like the US's inability to stem our number of cases will leave this as a legacy to the infants and toddlers of the 2020s.....:(

Pretty sure you have preached over and over that we need larger sample sizes to come to a conclusion. Yet, this very quote you posted said it is very limited due to a small Amount of cases. However, here you are, being a hypocrite. Shocker. Maybe you should chill out so we can actually hear some explanations for these sudden increase. You really need a new hobby. Maybe go out and get laid by an actual woman would do you well?? Maybe?
 
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Damn...again...this is immaterial to the point. IF the information posted is accurate, it demonstrates the falsity of the claim that COVID doesn't adversely affect small children. Why you seem to think your point is important in that context is baffling. It isn't. At all.
Goodness gracious....
 
@Joes Place we are serious here. When are you going to drop your findings to every liberal media outlet? You have a chance to be on Don Lemon for two weeks straight if you reach out to them with this information. If this is true, it should be leading every news outlet and every state should lock back down. It’s one thing for an 85 year old to die but it’s another thing when 6% of babies that get it are dying. You are a baby killer if you don’t get the message out instead of just trying prove how smart you are on HROT.
 
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@Joes Place we are serious here. When are you going to drop your findings to every liberal media outlet? You have a chance to be on Don Lemon for two weeks straight if you reach out to them with this information. If this is true, it should be leading every news outlet and every state should lock back down. It’s one thing for an 85 year old to die but it’s another thing when 6% of babies that get it are dying. You are a baby killer if you don’t get the message out instead of just trying prove how smart you are on HROT.

You've set too low of a bar. Don Lemon for two weeks!? Puh-leeeeeze!! @joesplace should take over for Fauci, and also be Surgeon General and maybe even take over the CDC. He clearly has the time and energy.
 
Pretty sure you have preached over and over that we need larger sample sizes to come to a conclusion. Yet, this very quote you posted said it is very limited due to a small Amount of cases. However, here you are, being a hypocrite. Shocker. Maybe you should chill out so we can actually hear some explanations for these sudden increase. You really need a new hobby. Maybe go out and get laid by an actual woman would do you well?? Maybe?

Seems like the cognitive dissonance is finally getting to you now.:cool:
 
You've set too low of a bar. Don Lemon for two weeks!? Puh-leeeeeze!! @joesplace should take over for Fauci, and also be Surgeon General and maybe even take over the CDC. He clearly has the time and energy.

You were given the answer as to why the CDC site didn't include those deaths. It's literally in the column label.

Rather than even attempt to understand it, and recognize your actions may contribute to lots and lots of infants and babies being harmed by the spread of this, you choose personal attacks and disinformation.

Maybe some self-reflection is in order.
 
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Pretty sure you have preached over and over that we need larger sample sizes to come to a conclusion.

The "sample size" here is (apparently) 26,000 children diagnosed with Covid-19 who had recovered, but nearly 1600 of them are now dead.

6%

That's an appreciable "sample size"; the Italian paper literally predicted it. Yet you want to ignore it, because it will paint your bud Trump in a bad light.

Amazing. Utterly, bafflingly, amazing.
 
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so what? Hospitalizations and deaths are down. Keep moving those goalposts. Seriously, you need to get a life.

You seem to have forgotten in March how you and others were so badly schooled on "geometric growth" and how the deaths numbers lagged the case numbers.

Also, as I've stated already, perhaps the deaths are down, because doctors are no longer dosing (and killing) patients with HCQ that was so widely pushed by the WH....
 
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You were given the answer as to why the CDC site didn't include those deaths. It's literally in the column label.

Rather than even attempt to understand it, and recognize your actions may contribute to lots and lots of infants and babies being harmed by the spread of this, you choose personal attacks and disinformation.

Maybe some self-reflection is in order.

Maybe reading comprehension is in order for you. My only comment on this particular topic is the link to the CDC YOU provided, which is CURRENT, says there isn't YET any direct evidence of COVID-19 being the CAUSE.

Your reply above, to my quote, has nothing to do with my post. Nothing whatsoever. I was promoting you for much bigger things than HROT, because you clearly have more knowledge than anyone else in the entire world on this subject. Your talent is clearly being wasted. It could actually be considered criminal if you sat by and watched people die.
 
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We have kept our four year old daughter home from school since March, despite it being open. Today, two staff members are going for Covid tests. Either way, I am happy we have decided to still keep her home.
 
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Also, as I've stated already, perhaps the deaths are down, because doctors are no longer dosing (and killing) patients with HCQ that was so widely pushed by the WH....
Perhaps? Is that confirmed data? You're guessing based on... your dislike of Trump?

Keep politicizing it. That's your true agenda.
 
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