You do realize that relatively speaking, McC is not a highly-paid coach. He's not in the top half of the league. Are you confused about this?
Curtis Jones transfer
- Thread starter CP84
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Fran is the 10th highest paid coach in the B1G and #37th overall. Take a look at some of these salaries and compare that to our expectations.
- Chris Holtmann, Ohio State – $7,149,849* (3rd nationally)
- Tom Izzo, Michigan State – $4,359,979 (4th)
- John Beilein, Michigan – $3,370,000 (9th)
- Archie Miller, Indiana – $3,200,000 (10th)
- Brad Underwood, Illinois – $2,755,450 (18th)
- Mark Turgeon, Maryland – $2,700,915 (20th)
- Matt Painter, Purdue – $2,478,795 (29th)
- Tim Miles, Nebraska – $2,250,080 (33rd)
- Greg Gard, Wisconsin – $2,250,000 (34th)
- Fran McCaffery, Iowa – $2,225,000 (37th)
- Richard Pitino, Minnesota – $1,957,753 (49th)
- Steve Pikiell, Rutgers -$1,600,000 (56th)
- Chris Collins, Northwestern – $1,434,725 (60th)
Holy shit at Chris Holtmann. Had no idea he got paid that much.
Looks like we have a pretty good bargain with Fran.
No doubt! Making damn near $3 million more/year than Izzo. Yikes.
Those two are the only consensus 4 star players as recruits. If you use all the services out there, you could find a 4 star rating for most of them, but not all. Depending on who you have in your starting 5....
Potential starters for me are several at this point, but most on our slim roster.
Garza
Joe W
JBo
Nunge
CJ
Connor
Joe T
Pemsl
Joe T was raised to a 4 star by one service. Connor too, I believe. But only one of those two would start. If either one does.
Nunge wasn't a 4 star by any service, nor JBo, nor Pemsl, nor CJ.
I would be happy to see Fran just bring in a transfer to add depth and fill holes in the roster every few years. Unfortunately, the trend is to need to do even more in the transfer market or be very successful at developing players.
If you are using ESPN for recruiting services then I cannot help you.
I'm asking about the 300+ D1 teams that take transfers or have the opportunity to compared to Iowa. Not your one team that makes your argument.
I "believe" Holtmann's $7 million + includes a balloon payment or bonus up front. Apology for not remembering the specifics ... But I don't think his ongoing salary is $7 + million ...
Go look at all the teams taking advantage of transfers. Does Fran have such an abundance of talent that he can't add to or upgrade any spot on the floor? If that is the case we should see the weekend of the BTT and the Sweet 16 right? Kansas and UNC taking advantage of graduate transfers but not Fran. Got it.
Now you want to compare Iowa to blue bloods? Again how did it work out for the 300+ teams who didn't make it as far as Iowa.
The other coaches have
If I only I could use sidewalk chalk maybe you would comprehend my point. If better teams than Iowa are utilizing graduate transfers then clearly Iowa should. So this might sink in let me restate it. If teams that can recruit 4 and 5 star kids recognize that graduate transfers can help fill holes then a team like Iowa who will never sniff a 5 star and unlikely an out of state 4 star sure as hell can benefit from them.
The other 300 teams you reference are not all P5 programs with a coach and staff that has been in place for going on 10 years that hasn't prove he can do more than win a first round NCAA game. If that is where your bar is set then clearly Fran is doing a great job.
Kansas and UNC have both pursued graduate transfers from mid-major programs. If they recognize these guys add value then why doesn't Fran? I get that many Iowa fans drink gallons of kool-aid and think every transfer is a thug or malcontent. Remove your head from the sand and look at the landscape of college basketball once in a while.
Reading comprehension on this board is priceless.
The fact that Painter is 7th in the league is a little bonkers.
The actual ESPN 4*s on roster are, in what I believe is descending order:
P McC
Joey W
Luka
C McC
Jordan
Joey T
As for me I read the other services but find ESPN to be the most reliable in predicting difficult outcomes. Only use ESPN when citing a kid's rank or score in discussion. Maintain a consistent(ish) metric from year to year and have the most scouts and contributors. Plus, in the coastal disregard of places like Iowa ESPN under rates our recruits so there's a little erring on the side of caution with their group. Joey T is the first kid I remember climbing after signing with Iowa, an enormously optimistic omen.
The best way to appreciate the talent level on the team is comparison to what the coach inherited. The lowest ranked recruits, CJF, Cordell, Ryan and Jack, would have been the stars of first McC roster, other than Matt G of course.
Although this team is shallow at most positions the first six guys are all big recruits for a school like Iowa. They should play well and, if well coached, will be back in the NCAAs. The last two groups of players seemed very disjointed, never really seemed to play cohesively both in game and long term.
Perhaps the next group will less spectacular but more consistent. There should not be low expectations at this point. The boys will need a little luck but the basketball gods still owe us quite a few strokes of good luck.
P McC
Joey W
Luka
C McC
Jordan
Joey T
As for me I read the other services but find ESPN to be the most reliable in predicting difficult outcomes. Only use ESPN when citing a kid's rank or score in discussion. Maintain a consistent(ish) metric from year to year and have the most scouts and contributors. Plus, in the coastal disregard of places like Iowa ESPN under rates our recruits so there's a little erring on the side of caution with their group. Joey T is the first kid I remember climbing after signing with Iowa, an enormously optimistic omen.
The best way to appreciate the talent level on the team is comparison to what the coach inherited. The lowest ranked recruits, CJF, Cordell, Ryan and Jack, would have been the stars of first McC roster, other than Matt G of course.
Although this team is shallow at most positions the first six guys are all big recruits for a school like Iowa. They should play well and, if well coached, will be back in the NCAAs. The last two groups of players seemed very disjointed, never really seemed to play cohesively both in game and long term.
Perhaps the next group will less spectacular but more consistent. There should not be low expectations at this point. The boys will need a little luck but the basketball gods still owe us quite a few strokes of good luck.
Explain it? “Why waste time look lot team when one team do trick” Is this English?
As per the ESPN statement above:
Some of the 3-star (when offerred) gems McC has brought in:
Bryce Cartwright - ?
Melsahn Basabe - 3*
Roy Marble - 3*
Gabe Olaseni - ?
Aaron White - 3*
Josh Oglesby - 3*
Anthony Clemmons - 3*
Mike Gesell - 4*
Peter Jok - 3* (prolly would have been a 4* had he not committed + injuries)
Jordan Bohannon - 4*
Ryan Kriener - 2*
Cordell Pemsl - 3* (like PJ, early 4* that fell in HS 'cuz injuries)
Jack Nunge - 3*
Luka Garza - 4*
CJ Fredrick - ?
Joe Toussaint - 4*
Plus the McC boys, both 4*, TC 4*, Woody 4*, Moss 4* and Ute high 3*.
White was obviously 4* talent from day one. The ESPN dis hurt him. Blew up huge senior year but didn't move up the recruiting rankings.
Olesani, Cartwright and CJF were also dissed by ESPN. They were NRs. Olesani had a very big recruit teammate so I know ESPN scouts were watching his games. Gabe dropped from a 3* to NR after signing with Iowa.
Isaiah was a 4* in his class, TC and Jordan 4* in their class, Luka and P McC were 4* in their class, Joey W another 4* in his class and Joey T and P McC are both 4* in their class. That is consistently good recruiting by Iowa-five consecutive classes with one or more 4* recruits. Three of those were out of state.
Compare McC with Alford recruiting. Two best recruits were Smith and Pierce: both criminal psychopaths that were damaging to Iowa's reputation, played collectively only 5 semesters. Recker and Evans were both benched for their selfish play and terrible effect on the team. The next class, Reiner Worley Brady, didn't qualify for the NCAAs their sophomore, junior or senior seasons. The next group, Bru Horner teams that had multiple 4* and high 3* guys, missed two years and never won an NCAA game. Even Mike Henderson was ineligible and tangled up in some petty shoplifting off that team.
Compare that with Lick recruiting.
The University will not allow an Iowa coach to run a pirate ship or gypsy caravan. Reliance on transfers and JUCOS work in other places-like ISU and Nebraska because of a more relaxed behavioral climate. So the risk of taking some 23 year old that has already transferred twice - pretty good evidence of either or both a malcontent or poor student - is much greater in Iowa City than Ames or Lincoln (or a lot of other places).
Its taken a long time to dig out of the hole dug during the Alford/Lick years. I strongly suspect we are getting much more consideration from good players, in part because McC is bringing in at least one top 120 player every year, than was possible 8 or 10 years ago.
Some of the 3-star (when offerred) gems McC has brought in:
Bryce Cartwright - ?
Melsahn Basabe - 3*
Roy Marble - 3*
Gabe Olaseni - ?
Aaron White - 3*
Josh Oglesby - 3*
Anthony Clemmons - 3*
Mike Gesell - 4*
Peter Jok - 3* (prolly would have been a 4* had he not committed + injuries)
Jordan Bohannon - 4*
Ryan Kriener - 2*
Cordell Pemsl - 3* (like PJ, early 4* that fell in HS 'cuz injuries)
Jack Nunge - 3*
Luka Garza - 4*
CJ Fredrick - ?
Joe Toussaint - 4*
Plus the McC boys, both 4*, TC 4*, Woody 4*, Moss 4* and Ute high 3*.
White was obviously 4* talent from day one. The ESPN dis hurt him. Blew up huge senior year but didn't move up the recruiting rankings.
Olesani, Cartwright and CJF were also dissed by ESPN. They were NRs. Olesani had a very big recruit teammate so I know ESPN scouts were watching his games. Gabe dropped from a 3* to NR after signing with Iowa.
Isaiah was a 4* in his class, TC and Jordan 4* in their class, Luka and P McC were 4* in their class, Joey W another 4* in his class and Joey T and P McC are both 4* in their class. That is consistently good recruiting by Iowa-five consecutive classes with one or more 4* recruits. Three of those were out of state.
Compare McC with Alford recruiting. Two best recruits were Smith and Pierce: both criminal psychopaths that were damaging to Iowa's reputation, played collectively only 5 semesters. Recker and Evans were both benched for their selfish play and terrible effect on the team. The next class, Reiner Worley Brady, didn't qualify for the NCAAs their sophomore, junior or senior seasons. The next group, Bru Horner teams that had multiple 4* and high 3* guys, missed two years and never won an NCAA game. Even Mike Henderson was ineligible and tangled up in some petty shoplifting off that team.
Compare that with Lick recruiting.
The University will not allow an Iowa coach to run a pirate ship or gypsy caravan. Reliance on transfers and JUCOS work in other places-like ISU and Nebraska because of a more relaxed behavioral climate. So the risk of taking some 23 year old that has already transferred twice - pretty good evidence of either or both a malcontent or poor student - is much greater in Iowa City than Ames or Lincoln (or a lot of other places).
Its taken a long time to dig out of the hole dug during the Alford/Lick years. I strongly suspect we are getting much more consideration from good players, in part because McC is bringing in at least one top 120 player every year, than was possible 8 or 10 years ago.
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You are assuming Fran is not pursuing transfers. We hear about a couple of them and assume that that is all that are being recruited.
Forget it. This poster is just not accepting anything other than Fran-hate. And he assumes that the kids that UNC and Kansas are pursuing are interested in Iowa, then he assumes that Iowa wastes too much time recruiting HS kids that are getting interest from schools like Kansas and UNC.
Forget it. This poster is just not accepting anything other than Fran-hate. And he assumes that the kids that UNC and Kansas are pursuing are interested in Iowa, then he assumes that Iowa wastes too much time recruiting HS kids that are getting interest from schools like Kansas and UNC.
Interesting narrative. Where did I say that Fran should go after the same kids UNC and KU are? I stated that when teams like KU and UNC see value in graduate transfers (teams who can recruit 4-5 star kids) then a program like Iowa certainly should. Your spin is entertaining, but far from factual.
Fran has done a poor job of utilizing transfers to fill roster gaps. That is irrefutable. Instead he has offered countless mid-major kids, given them years to prove they are mid-major kids only to see them transfer to basketball obscurity (exception being Moss). Give me some guys who can contribute 5, 10, 15 minutes per game for 1 year vs. kids who ride the pine and never improve before transferring.
When other programs that are equal to or inferior to Iowa are more successful in this space, what else can I assume? Graduate transfers aren't a silver bullet but when Iowa has had gaping holes on the roster while rolling Dailey, Ellingson, etc., out there with minimal returns, it would seem to scream upgrade to even the casual observer.
Fran considers this "free agency" and isn't a fan so how motivated do you think he is to bring a graduate transfer in to show up one of his "guys"?. When it becomes about the team and not Fran's ego, I will gladly compliment him for getting outside of the box.
Bakari will be the 4th transfer fran has tried to bring on campus this year . . . that we know of. What else do you want him to do?
This transfer narrative is a little worn-out. It's cherry picking to point at Texas Tech and say "see! transfers win games!!" Handfuls of other schools grab transfers and dont experience the same success. Iowa State gets a lot of transfers and they've won 1 NCAA game in three years (the same as us). Fran brought in 2 transfers in the last 5 years (Dale Jones and Trey Dickerson) and he got burned on both of them. Maybe Fran should just focus on getting better talent, regardless of where it comes from.
You are spinning, not I. There have been plenty of transfers contacted by Iowa and some have visited. One is coming this weekend and may be here already. Just because you are unaware of something does not mean it isn't happening. Get over it.
ESPN is the worst recruiting service of the main 3 and its not even close really.
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anon_likibb9jzd3e0
Guest
That would be great except it isn't up to him. Unless people want him to join the pay for play league.
We have a grad transfer on campus now through Saunday that is on an official visit. Does Evelyn not count?
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You think? Just curious as to why? They advertise, which means its probably mostly true, the largest data base, the most scouts and the most analysts. They lean to important media programs but so do Rivals and 247.
I've read that 247 provides a composite of where AAU coaches want to see their guys play. Have no independent way of knowing that to be true. Rivals seems just weird. Used to follow it closely but quit because they seemed to even more biased against places like Iowa than ESPN and farther off on a lot of players. Didn't have a ton of information on the players.
However, I'm open to change. I do not like ESPN as a company. Abandoning ESPN wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.
