Yes...Look back at the 2014, 2015 classes which were poor and ranked 59th and 58th respectively. Out of 41 recruits I see about 6 players that I would say have been a consistent starter on the team. The rest of the starters come from classes there were better in the lower 40 rankings...Weird how that works. Better recruiting classes of produced better players.
*Developments in SWARM19 Recruiting*
- Thread starter Harbinger273
- Start date
Not my monkeys not my circus but Iowa is the only program in the nation to have its recruitting rankings improve every year for the last 5 years.
I say good. But I find it weird that on here if you say you want better recruiting rankings you are committing some sort of sin.
O I fully agree. My angle is "you like how many 2 stars KF has put in the NFL, think about how many more 4 stars he would have placed." "You would like 4 stars just as much right?"
Iowa Fans:
I want Iowa to win the West Division: "Yes! I agree!"
I want Iowa to have great facilities: "Yes! "
I want Iowa to have a nice stadium: "Yes! That'll make the game experience better."
I want to recruit the very best athletes we possibly can: "No. Average recruiting classes are just fine and getting better recruits won't do any good."
I want Iowa to win the West Division: "Yes! I agree!"
I want Iowa to have great facilities: "Yes! "
I want Iowa to have a nice stadium: "Yes! That'll make the game experience better."
I want to recruit the very best athletes we possibly can: "No. Average recruiting classes are just fine and getting better recruits won't do any good."
Sorry let me change it to Rutgers. Rutgers out-recruited us based on rankings 3 years in a row (2013-2015). How is this acceptable and doesn't tick you off is beyond me.
Lolololol. I was wrong so let me change my previous statement real quick to fit my agenda.
What a loser. By the way, shitty article you wrote for the Daily Iowan today.
F it you guys can go back through the years although '13 was 1 spot better than '14 (nationally) so maybe it started in '14 and '19 was year 5. Carry on, who am I to interrupt a good pissing match.
Indiana the past few years have out recruited Iowa. Teams like Duke, Oregon State, Rutgers, get better recruiting classes consistently.
Just in my opinion if Iowa can get the recruiting classes into mid to top 30's, which doesn't seem impossible. They can be contending for Big Ten championships much more consistently.
Just in my opinion if Iowa can get the recruiting classes into mid to top 30's, which doesn't seem impossible. They can be contending for Big Ten championships much more consistently.
Sorry. Don't know what the Daily Iowan is.
Just say you enjoy being the bottom of the Big Ten in recruiting every year and get it over with.
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How dare you interrupt this pissing match with facts.
How don’t they out recruit Iowa every year? It is a miracle Rutgers has sucked forever considering their location. It really is incredible. They are the reverse Nebraska in 70s-90s.
Also, you’re an ass.
You see boys and girls, this is what happens when you don't finish school. .......LOL
I may have misunderstood. Sounds like you meant the last round of assistants under KFz, by "old regime". Got it.
Percy-how much would you like to wager that shady tactics are being employed at KU to bring kids in from SEC land? Whenever perennial doormats instantly become relevant (and Kansas is nowhere near relevant) you can pretty much guarantee shady stuff is going down.
Ferentz and company stirred the pot after the 14 season. They had gotten the message that the current level of performance wasn't going to cut it. Recruiting has trended up since then. No, they haven't had any top-25 classes, but they have been getting the bulk of their classes early from kids they identified early on and not relying as much on last-minute fall-back recruits. This year's class is an example of that. There are no players the national media will rave about but if you look at the film, these guys are good and they chose the Hawks early. I am as optimistic as I have ever been that the Hawks will be able to compete for the West going forward.
Ferentz and company stirred the pot after the 14 season. They had gotten the message that the current level of performance wasn't going to cut it. Recruiting has trended up since then. No, they haven't had any top-25 classes, but they have been getting the bulk of their classes early from kids they identified early on and not relying as much on last-minute fall-back recruits. This year's class is an example of that. There are no players the national media will rave about but if you look at the film, these guys are good and they chose the Hawks early. I am as optimistic as I have ever been that the Hawks will be able to compete for the West going forward.
Iowa has finished higher than Indiana in the recruiting rankings the last 3 years.
Over the last ten years, Duke has finished higher than Iowa in the recruiting rankings 3 times, with one of those years being 1 spot higher.
Why do you continue to make things up? Don't think anyone will actually take the time to fact check you?
Rutgers and OSU did fare better than us just about half the time over that same 10 year period, but our classes the last few years seem to be consistently improving while theirs are getting quite a bit worse.
In general, the more higher rated recruits you get, the better your team potential but even when recruiting 4 and 5 stars who have to be able to evaluate talent and fit. In addition, while the percentage hit on the top 100 or so is pretty high, after that it gets to be more and more about evaluation and development. Remember that part of the ranking is how good they are at this moment and not what they will be in a few years. In addition, kids that get seen more and play on a bigger stage tend to get rated better than small state kids that aren't seen as much and aren't in front of scouts as much. Also, you will see some kids rated differently by different services. Just this year for example Miller and Endres are 4 stars on other sites and so is Lee but Rivals has them as 3 stars.
Also, no one is ever saying they wanted lower rated recruits over higher rated recruits. What people do say is that Iowa staff has a history with identifying under the radar talent and developing them into very good players.
Also, no one is ever saying they wanted lower rated recruits over higher rated recruits. What people do say is that Iowa staff has a history with identifying under the radar talent and developing them into very good players.
The article I read said Iowa was 1 of only 2 teams, the other being Washington State.
Question for you ... and others who are interested in answering .... the Hawkeye coaches have a ton of guys who they evaluate based on their own criteria (a recipe that they know typically leads to success). They offer a large number of those guys ... and when they offer, they're not looking at the recruiting ratings that recruiting services supply. Instead, they're looking at their own evaluation notes (that are far more exhaustive) AND they're all accounting for the fact that they're actively recruiting guys who demonstrate reciprocal interest in the Hawks.
So here's the question ... isn't it a good thing when the Hawkeye coaches are landing guys who are at the top of their recruiting boards? Does it matter what the "stars" say ... if the guys we land are the guys who the coaches wanted the most anyhow?
Lastly, this is a point I frequently make ... but few folks who complain about Iowa's recruiting ever seem to truly think about it and/or address it ... the coaches contact almost all of the no-brainer talent too. However, how many of the no-brainer talent guys do you think actually respond to their social media inquiries, texts, phone-calls, and messages through their HS coaches? If the coaches are shouting from the trees ... but are responded to with silence ... is it the best allocation of their time and resources to chase after guys who have no interest in our program?
The only thing you can ultimately do to get your foot in the door with those sorts of guys is to win. However, sometimes, even that is not enough. Sometimes such guys are looking for the latest flavor of O or D ... and that is something that the Hawks cannot offer. Sometimes the guys are looking for 100 or 1000 dollar handshakes ... and again, that is not something that the Hawks can offer. Lastly, sometimes those guys are looking for guarantees ... guarantees that they'll start ... and that's something that philosophy goes against everything our program stands for. Thus, for many high-end recruits ... the Hawks doesn't even get in on the ground floor (to garner their interest). For those guys ... I don't feel bad about missing on them.
Hey Homer,
Welcome Back I have not seen you around as much lately. I will take a shot at it. Yes, it is 100% better the coaches are getting guys "higher on the list" as fit is way more important than any site ranking. As to the question about "what should they do about guys that dont respond?" (paraphrasing) they can sell certain positions and push harder on some aspects. There is no reason we shouldn't be getting a stud RB every class, this has improved as of late. You are correct and you can talk to people who are also interested. Continuing to focus on win% would be wise of the staff. KF's numbers are pretty well set but defensive talent hasnt been the issue. If I were "selling" Iowa. I would really start to focus on the win% of the "new" staff.
Welcome Back I have not seen you around as much lately. I will take a shot at it. Yes, it is 100% better the coaches are getting guys "higher on the list" as fit is way more important than any site ranking. As to the question about "what should they do about guys that dont respond?" (paraphrasing) they can sell certain positions and push harder on some aspects. There is no reason we shouldn't be getting a stud RB every class, this has improved as of late. You are correct and you can talk to people who are also interested. Continuing to focus on win% would be wise of the staff. KF's numbers are pretty well set but defensive talent hasnt been the issue. If I were "selling" Iowa. I would really start to focus on the win% of the "new" staff.
If Iowa isn't taking 1/3 of their recruiting class in the last week it is a good thing that means they hit on their top tier guys with better frequency, this class is a good example , The last 3 classes have been solid , if attrition doesn't hurt these last classes too hard Iowa will win a lot of football games . The quality and depth of the roster going forward is very good.
......
I feel that the hawk offense is very hard to recruit to. Especially at wr but that appears to be changing under copeland. Example the freshman tracy coming in from indy. Kirk has made some good hires on defense and strength coach. On offense and OC kind of miss matches for what he wants to run.. i dont think the stars matter much unless someone is in the top half of the five stars. I kind of cringe when kirk poor mouths his own program. I wish he would quit that. It is pretty hard to understand how we dont recruit more college ready olinemen. It appears like they need two years with doyle before they are ready. When they play early its down goes the iowa quarterback. It appears like we run a offensive system that takes to long to learn to get up to speed on blocking. While other teams can plug and play. We have got to keep that indy pipeline going. We cant let purdue shut it down.
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The whole recruiting debate can be settled with a simple phrase: "I wish the coaching staff would have less misses in recruiting." Every point all boils down the the same thing, we all want Iowa to have the best players on the field.
The perception, perhaps reality, is that the higher the ranking the higher the chance of the prospect will be a high performing player. Having a class full of higher rated prospects increases the likelyhood of having better players. This might be true, but it ignores the fact that some lower ranked players have all-american/NFL status in them.
Asking for a mix of these recruits isn't the answer either. Willingly taking a lower chance of a higher performer in hopes that you've found a diamond in the rough is a poor strategy. Even if talent evaluators aren't good at finding everyone, something the Iowa staff has taken advantage of, it doesn't make the probablity any less.
In the end you can fix both issues with the statement I presented in the beginning, if the staff has zero misses in recruiting; all prospects are higher performers. It doesn't matter their ranking, all five* or all 1*. What matters is what's on the field come gameday. If you want to debate on the how to get a close to zero misses, I'll agree with the higher rankings by experts is the best opportunity, but I'll also admit to the staffs ability to finding the under the radar recruits. Which is probably why I always get excited for every recruit we land till they prove they were a miss.
The perception, perhaps reality, is that the higher the ranking the higher the chance of the prospect will be a high performing player. Having a class full of higher rated prospects increases the likelyhood of having better players. This might be true, but it ignores the fact that some lower ranked players have all-american/NFL status in them.
Asking for a mix of these recruits isn't the answer either. Willingly taking a lower chance of a higher performer in hopes that you've found a diamond in the rough is a poor strategy. Even if talent evaluators aren't good at finding everyone, something the Iowa staff has taken advantage of, it doesn't make the probablity any less.
In the end you can fix both issues with the statement I presented in the beginning, if the staff has zero misses in recruiting; all prospects are higher performers. It doesn't matter their ranking, all five* or all 1*. What matters is what's on the field come gameday. If you want to debate on the how to get a close to zero misses, I'll agree with the higher rankings by experts is the best opportunity, but I'll also admit to the staffs ability to finding the under the radar recruits. Which is probably why I always get excited for every recruit we land till they prove they were a miss.
when looking at the team rankings too many vairables can affect the final rankings the number of signees plays a big part, say if team A signs 20 players that total is set
if team B signs over 20 the lower rated player point total is replaced by the higher point total player.
take this year for example unless there is a a major attrition that happens this years class may only have 17 commits.
when looking at the classes from 2013 thru 2015 KF was overhauling his staff so there was no stability in recruiting, 2016 the staff started seeing stability and it showed with a #42 class.
as of now there are 7
brand new coaches on his staff in these
WR Coach Copeland
OL Coach Polasek
OC/TE Coach Brian Ferentz
ST Coach Woods
LB Coach Wallace
RC/Assistant DL Coach Bell
RB Coach Foster.
all these are young and energized coaches, not only that but they bring their connections to states that the borders were closed to Iowa before. this class is on a breakout year in recruiting. as all the coaches are now on the same page.
if team B signs over 20 the lower rated player point total is replaced by the higher point total player.
take this year for example unless there is a a major attrition that happens this years class may only have 17 commits.
when looking at the classes from 2013 thru 2015 KF was overhauling his staff so there was no stability in recruiting, 2016 the staff started seeing stability and it showed with a #42 class.
as of now there are 7
brand new coaches on his staff in these
WR Coach Copeland
OL Coach Polasek
OC/TE Coach Brian Ferentz
ST Coach Woods
LB Coach Wallace
RC/Assistant DL Coach Bell
RB Coach Foster.
all these are young and energized coaches, not only that but they bring their connections to states that the borders were closed to Iowa before. this class is on a breakout year in recruiting. as all the coaches are now on the same page.
1. Most people look at average ranking per recruit.
2. I missed you Kilroy. (Brand new coaches, smh)
Hawk in mo, I wish I could find that article, maybe it was only iowa is looking like they will continue the trend.
2. I missed you Kilroy. (Brand new coaches, smh)
Hawk in mo, I wish I could find that article, maybe it was only iowa is looking like they will continue the trend.
here is a better metric
2013 on a 5.0 scale 2.77
2014 2.75
2015 2.71
2016 2.88
2017 2.91
2018 3.0
2019 3.0 and the class is not done. with Miller and Endres being 4*'s by 2 other sites. give them that 4th * and the avg goes to a 3.15
yes over hauling a staff does have a big affect, remember reading about GD and BF accusing the other assistant coaches of just punching a time clock when it came to recruiting.
in the previous 2 classes there have been 3 US Army AA Game starters, that's the most since they had 7 in that 11th rated class in 2005.
the 2017 class saw 2 other players in AA Games
DB Hankins in the North/South who started as a FR
QB Mansell who RS'd in the Blue/Gray game.
the US Army AA were these
OL Wirfs who is a starter as a True FR
DE 5* Epenesa who is the backup to 3 year starter Hesse
DT Linderbaum who looks to RS this fall.
yes the recruiting is getting better. Bell will be a 4* addition. if they get Hinrich they will get their 4th US Army AA in 3 years.
2013 on a 5.0 scale 2.77
2014 2.75
2015 2.71
2016 2.88
2017 2.91
2018 3.0
2019 3.0 and the class is not done. with Miller and Endres being 4*'s by 2 other sites. give them that 4th * and the avg goes to a 3.15
yes over hauling a staff does have a big affect, remember reading about GD and BF accusing the other assistant coaches of just punching a time clock when it came to recruiting.
in the previous 2 classes there have been 3 US Army AA Game starters, that's the most since they had 7 in that 11th rated class in 2005.
the 2017 class saw 2 other players in AA Games
DB Hankins in the North/South who started as a FR
QB Mansell who RS'd in the Blue/Gray game.
the US Army AA were these
OL Wirfs who is a starter as a True FR
DE 5* Epenesa who is the backup to 3 year starter Hesse
DT Linderbaum who looks to RS this fall.
yes the recruiting is getting better. Bell will be a 4* addition. if they get Hinrich they will get their 4th US Army AA in 3 years.
I saw the article/info on Twitter. I thought it said Iowa was the only team, but maybe Washington State has as well?
Idk and the search engine on Twitter is horrible, nevertheless, Iowa has done well for itself.
The other thing about getting higher rated recruits or more talented players is in an injury situation you are not up the creek. Everyone likes to point out we were down to "2 freshman tackles" last year but the facts are they were the most talented and ready to play guys. Iowa does a great job taking a "Jack Plumb" and turning him into an NFL Tackle but if everything goes right he will be in the system for 3 years before he even sees the field. If you are relying on that much development you can be in deep water if the injury bug hits.
*****
Nah the 2014 and 2015 classes were bad because i said they were bad. It had nothing to do with the star system and class rankings.
That's speculating a bit but too that point, think of how many we would have lost if the 4 star freshman would have been a more developmental guy and one of the older, not as good/ready players would have had to play.
you talk about Plumb but leave these out
Cody Innce
Jeff Jenkins
6'6 Kallenberg who is listed as the back up to Wirfs at LT as a RSFR, these 3 were in that 2017 class. and both were listed at OT
Rivals sucks for midwest kids - use 247 non-composite instead.
Kallenberger was 4* #242 overall and Jenkins is 4* #206 overall. I expect both of them to contribute heavily in the 2019 season.
I brought up plumb because he is a perfect example of a developmental player Iowa can work wonders with. Nothing against the guy in any way, I believe he is rated the way he is because he has amazing potential, but it's going to take time. Jenkins today is probably closer to his maximum potential and a heck of a recruit himself, but all of the names you listed are going to need time before b10 FB. Whereas with a high rated 4 star you have someone who is physically more ready to play, in case of an injury, and may have a higher ceiling also. Another guy I think is a great example of a developmental player Iowa can work with is Levi Duwa. That dude has the footwork to play TE at the highschool level, and the nasty of a DEn they are going to make a C/G out of him. Ya think he is going to be animal pulling out in front of a running back in our O? Absolutely, but it takes time to build that body.
