Do you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior?

[like-woahh]

Fair enough.

I just hope people remember that pedos are everywhere, not just in the Catholic Church. It's terrible, but true.

Of course there are, but the Catholic Church actively covered it up and you're doing this weird deflecting nonsense of, "well they did other good stuff here."

Holy ****ing shit it's like speaking to my devoutly Catholic Grandparents all over again.

I don't get it, I will never get it, how you can support that organization in spite of all the shit they have done to people.

We're on opposite sides I guess.

 

[BrianNole09]

@BrianNole09 , I totally support you in your spiritual journey. I also pray you do not get all judgmental like so many christians. Don't succumb to the pressure from those false "christians" who try to scare you into sending them money.

I try not to judge, although I've done that, even when I was an Atheist.

The only money I give is to reputable charities.

 

[BrianNole09]

Of course there are, but the Catholic Church actively covered it up and you're doing this weird deflecting nonsense of, "well they did other good stuff here."

Holy ****ing shit it's like speaking to my devoutly Catholic Grandparents all over again.

I don't get it, I will never get it, how you can support that organization in spite of all the shit they have done to people.

We're on opposite sides I guess.

I've already explained why; sexual abuse happens at many organizations. It doesn't happen more often in the Catholic Church, according to the John Jay report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/16/AR2010041602026.html

I knew a football player in college that probably raped a guy (I didn't go to school in Iowa.) He left the team and transferred. He never got in trouble, as far as I know.

It doesn't mean I hate the entire football program now or blame them.

I can still support the Church's teachings and the fact that 90% of the people in the Church and their charitable activities are noble. The Catholic Church has over 1 billion members. You shouldn't condemn the entire Church because of an evil few that went against Church teachings, IMO.

I had a relative that was a Jesuit, and was a great guy. My Great Aunt was a Nun and was amazing. My Grandfather was a Deacon and was great.

I can't let the evil minority completely cloud my judgement, especially since they were directly going against Church teachings.

I hope you can understand this.

 

[like-woahh]

I've already explained why; sexual abuse happens at many organizations. It doesn't happen more often in the Catholic Church, according to the John Jay report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/16/AR2010041602026.html

I knew a football player in college that probably raped a guy (I didn't go to school in Iowa.) He left the team and transferred. He never got in trouble, as far as I know.

It doesn't mean I hate the entire football program now or blame them.

I can still support the Church's teachings and the fact that 90% of the people in the Church and their charitable activities are noble. The Catholic Church has over 1 billion members. I won't let the evil minority change that, especially now that the evil people have been booted.

We feel differently, if something that happened at Penn State happened an the University of Iowa, I'm done. I'm out. I will not actively support that organization.

The Catholic Church covered up cases of child molestation, which we know of 100%. I'm out with that organization, done, been that way for a long time, obviously. I think it's incredibly naive of you to think "all of the evil people have been booted" when your own book tells of an anti-christ that everyone will initially love and support.

 

[dbq hawk 32]

My rejection of God is simple. As long as there is 5 year old kid out there somewhere who has cancer than God can piss off. I'll punch him in his vagina when I see him for standing by and doing nothing. If that is the case, then that "God" is terrible. That is my benevolence test. Innocent children suffering from unpreventable catastrophe in the realm of a "benevolent" supreme being is the stuff of nightmares. On the flip side, ask any mother or father if they would trade their life to save their own child. Most would do it without question. That is the definition of love. Now ask God if he will do the same to his children created in his image. Que the people who's response is he sacrificed his own son to save us. My response would by why didn't he sacrifice himself.

Careful with all those edges.

In reference to the bold part, you should probably google the trinity.

 

[BrianNole09]

Damnit! Where was I when your football friend was raping dudes?

He wasn't my friend and that is a disgusting post. Even for HROT.

 

[BrianNole09]

We feel differently, if something that happened at Penn State happened an the University of Iowa, I'm done. I'm out. I will not actively support that organization.

The Catholic Church covered up cases of child molestation, which we know of 100%. I'm out with that organization, done, been that way for a long time, obviously. I think it's incredibly naive of you to think "all of the evil people have been booted" when your own book tells of an anti-christ that everyone will initially love and support.

It's a difference case than with a college. The Catholic Church is enormous. It's also the #1 charitable organization in the U.S. My parish never had any abuse, as far as I know.

Every religion has had sex abuse scandals. Should people stop practicing religion altogether?

Again, I'm not willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. It's not as if the Catholic Church teaches that abuse is acceptable. It teaches that abusers go to the depths of Hell and some evil people violated that. A small percentage.

 

[strummingram]

Should people stop practicing religion altogether?

Ideally, yes. People usually wind up worshiping the religion, and "God" becomes a token figure in the mythologies. God is just as accessible without the religious clubs. I think organized religion is slowly dying out anyway. Its usefulness has run its course.

 

[like-woahh]

It's a difference case than with a college. The Catholic Church is enormous. It's also the #1 charitable organization in the U.S. My parish never had any abuse, as far as I know.

Every religion has had sex abuse scandals. Should people stop practicing religion altogether?

Again, I'm not willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. It's not as if the Catholic Church teaches that abuse is acceptable. It teaches that abusers go to the depths of Hell and some evil people violated that. A small percentage.

You're ignoring the fact that they actively covered up the abuse scandal, across the board. That's why it was so scandalous to begin with.

Shit, I'm anecdotal evidence of that.

Doesn't matter what they teach, if they don't follow it then why the hell should anyone else. Their actions contradicted their words and I can only assume it's because they wanted to protect their value, and by value I mean wealth.

C'mon, the Catholic Church is more about their pocket book than their spiritual value. If they weren't they wouldn't have covered up the abuse of children for years upon years. You keep bringing up how much money they raise as some sort of deflection to all of the crap they have covered up.

 

[strummingram]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogerwolsey/2015/03/to-hell-with-hell/

Jesus didn’t speak of Hell, but rather, of Gehenna, as a potential punishing realm for those deemed unworthy. Gehenna was the name of the burning garbage pits outside of Jerusalem. Jesus was speaking in hyperbole in such instances – as a teaching tool to help some people be motivated to do right in this life; i.e., as a metaphorical stick. That said, he rarely spoke about “the stick” and spent far more time offering “the carrot” – describing the kingdom of God/Heaven and the merits and blessings of living in godly ways that demonstrate we’re living “kingdom lives” in God’s beloved community and realm.

“The truth of the matter is that there is not one single word in the Hebrew and Greek Manuscripts of the Bible that means hell. …hell is a man-invented, pagan, unchristian, heretical belief that was first embraced and christianised by Roman Catholicism, and incorporated into the Bible by Jerome through his Latin Vulgate in the early history of Christianity.“

 

[BrianNole09]

You're ignoring the fact that they actively covered up the abuse scandal, across the board. That's why it was so scandalous to begin with.

Shit, I'm anecdotal evidence of that.

Doesn't matter what they teach, if they don't follow it then why the hell should anyone else. Their actions contradicted their words and I can only assume it's because they wanted to protect their value, and by value I mean wealth.

C'mon, the Catholic Church is more about their pocket book than their spiritual value. If they weren't they wouldn't have covered up the abuse of children for years upon years. You keep bringing up how much money they raise as some sort of deflection to all of the crap they have covered up.

What percentage of the clergy were involved in the abuse and cover up?

You keep ignoring that, too.

 

[LuteHawk]

The Roman Catholic Church allowed priests to be
married until the year 1075 A.D. It is time for the
RC Church to allow the marriage of priests again.
A priest has a tough time trying to live a celibate life
and at the same time attempting to do marriage
counseling for the members of his parish.

Bottom Line: Nothing in the Bible forbids a pastor or
priest from being married to one wife.

 

[ScoutRefugee]

Care to share any?

I don't remember them. That was a long time ago. Sorry.

 

[Urohawk]

So, you blame God for human beings screwing up? That's nice of you!

No I specifically used the example of a kid getting cancer. Hardly man's fault.

 

[LuteHawk]

The Christian perspective is that sin brought death
into the world. ("The wages of sin is death, but the
free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
Romans 6:23)

Cancer, heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, are all the
result of man's sin and bring death to humanity.

The Good News is that the grave does not have to be
a dead end for the Christian. We have the faith to
receive God's free gift of eternal life in the resurrected
Christ who rose from the grave.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Lift up the receiver, I'll make you a believer.

 

[HotelAlphaWilcoKilo]

@BrianNole09 , I totally support you in your spiritual journey. I also pray you do not get all judgmental like so many christians.

Have you read any of his posts? He had a really bad weekend a few months back and decided to look up an old frat buddy who's now a priest. He jumped back into that baptismal font with both feet and all he does is proselytize. Even got him a Tuesdays with Morrie man of the cloth he can bounce demon stories off of. He is definitely born again, hard.

 

[BrianNole09]

The ghost of Bill Hicks is stalking me.

 

[lawsonhawk]

The Christian perspective is that sin brought death
into the world. ("The wages of sin is death, but the
free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
Romans 6:23)

Cancer, heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, are all the
result of man's sin and bring death to humanity.

The Good News is that the grave does not have to be
a dead end for the Christian. We have the faith to
receive God's free gift of eternal life in the resurrected
Christ who rose from the grave.

So . . . there was no DNA in the beginning . . . got it . . .

 

[marisa45]

We feel differently, if something that happened at Penn State happened an the University of Iowa, I'm done. I'm out. I will not actively support that organization.

The Catholic Church covered up cases of child molestation, which we know of 100%. I'm out with that organization, done, been that way for a long time, obviously. I think it's incredibly naive of you to think "all of the evil people have been booted" when your own book tells of an anti-christ that everyone will initially love and support.

I'm just browsing around but I can't help but respond. "If what happened at Penn State happened at the University of Iowa, I'm done". What exactly happened at Penn State? No one truly knows the answer to that question. I'm not here to defend the football program or Joe Paterno but what exactly happened and how Penn State University is truly culpable is a completely different thing.

There are three executives at the time of the crime who "worked for" the university which stand accused but none of them have actually been convicted, at best the three failed to act on solid circumstantial evidence of abuse, not abuse itself. I will defend the University here. You cannot hold an entire organization responsible for the failure of a few. If you do, you are regurgitating a phony narrative of the press, because the facts don't support the position you're taking. I'm also a catholic, and those sins were much more clearly defined in terms of abuse and actual cover up of abuse. The two can't be compared.

I understand this is a message board and at the heart of sports message boards is a no holds barred approach to chastising your opponents interests, but please do this particular subject a bit of justice. There were many people who failed during the Sandusky Child Abuse case, many have yet to be named but most do not sit in positions at Penn State University.......they sit in organizations like the Children and Youth Program of the State of Pennsylvania, the State Government (specifically the Attorney Generals Office) and the Second Mile Charitable Organization........this is not just a Penn State scandal, it is far reaching, especially to those organizations specifically charged with the protection of youth. To think otherwise simply is not supported by the facts at this time. This was not a Penn State scandal, it was a state of Pennsylvania scandal. Either way, only individuals are culpable.

 

[BrianNole09]

I'm just browsing around but I can't help but respond. "If what happened at Penn State happened at the University of Iowa, I'm done". What exactly happened at Penn State? No one truly knows the answer to that question. I'm not here to defend the football program or Joe Paterno but what exactly happened and how Penn State University is truly culpable is a completely different thing.

There are three executives at the time of the crime who "worked for" the university which stand accused but none of them have actually been convicted, at best the three failed to act on solid circumstantial evidence of abuse, not abuse itself. I will defend the University here. You cannot hold an entire organization responsible for the failure of a few. If you do, you are regurgitating a phony narrative of the press, because the facts don't support the position you're taking. I'm also a catholic, and those sins were much more clearly defined in terms of abuse and actual cover up of abuse. The two can't be compared.

I understand this is a message board and at the heart of sports message boards is a no holds barred approach to chastising your opponents interests, but please do this particular subject a bit of justice. There were many people who failed during the Sandusky Child Abuse case, many have yet to be named but most do not sit in positions at Penn State University.......they sit in organizations like the Children and Youth Program of the State of Pennsylvania, the State Government (specifically the Attorney Generals Office) and the Second Mile Charitable Organization........this is not just a Penn State scandal, it is far reaching, especially to those organizations specifically charged with the protection of youth. To think otherwise simply is not supported by the facts at this time. This was not a Penn State scandal, it was a state of Pennsylvania scandal. Either way, only individuals are culpable.

As long as you agree that Paterno deliberately lied and covered up the abuse, then we're all good

 

[ConvenientParking]

I don't. Jesus is just alright with me.

 

[ConvenientParking]

It's extremely weird to have faith in basketball jesus. Or any form of jesus.

 

[NoleATL]

Have you read any of his posts? He had a really bad weekend a few months back and decided to look up an old frat buddy who's now a priest. He jumped back into that baptismal font with both feet and all he does is proselytize. Even got him a Tuesdays with Morrie man of the cloth he can bounce demon stories off of. He is definitely born again, hard.

View embedded media

That is fine...

 

[PCBHAWK]

I grew up in the Catholic Church, and you know what here it is, I don't talk about this but whatever. I was molested as a young man by a Catholic Priest. AKA, "Father"

And that **** fled to Oregon and there is no justice for me because of the organization that is the Catholic Church. So **** off about your perceptions of me and what I've been through.

1970 doesn't mean crap to me because I was born in '85 and got abused by an organization that has covered this shit up thousands of times since then. The stories are endless.

The vast majority of Priests, Nuns, and Bishops are better than me? **** right off with that shit.

Now you know why I'm "mad bro." Because they ****ing aren't. They are people, simple as that and they are capable of inhumane shit. The difference is they hide their flaws behind the Catholic Church and they were more than capable of protecting them to save face. Yeah, shove them off to another Parish. They're just confused, demons are influencing their thoughts.

Cool, the Catholic Church has dropped some cash, good for them. Doesn't ****ing help me or the thousands of others who have been taken advantage of as children and then covered up so I can get no justice.

Enjoy being a part of that shit organization.

Wow, sorry for what you went through at the hands of people that should be keeping you safe. Catholic priests are no more Godly than you or me. They are human with flaws. I swear many guys become priests due to their sexual urges. The priest that committed this horrific crime against you as a child should be killed and let God deal with him.

In was raised Catholic and my family were huge supporters of the church/congregation. When I was around 12, they shipped in a new priest. One day I was left alone with him at the church. This dude creeped me out and made me feel uncomfortable. He would look at me with a look that is hard to describe. I always managed to get away from him and the uncomfortable feeling because I knew something was not right with this dude . A few months later he was transferred, out of the blue, to another church. Fast forward 15 years and he is in the paper for abusing boys at his church. I feel lucky that I had a feeling that this dude was bad news and had the mental ability to understand this.

Again, sorry for your past BS. No kid deserves this and the church is to blame as much as the priest.

 

[naturalmwa]

I'm just browsing around but I can't help but respond. "If what happened at Penn State happened at the University of Iowa, I'm done". What exactly happened at Penn State? No one truly knows the answer to that question. I'm not here to defend the football program or Joe Paterno but what exactly happened and how Penn State University is truly culpable is a completely different thing.

There are three executives at the time of the crime who "worked for" the university which stand accused but none of them have actually been convicted, at best the three failed to act on solid circumstantial evidence of abuse, not abuse itself. I will defend the University here. You cannot hold an entire organization responsible for the failure of a few. If you do, you are regurgitating a phony narrative of the press, because the facts don't support the position you're taking. I'm also a catholic, and those sins were much more clearly defined in terms of abuse and actual cover up of abuse. The two can't be compared.

I understand this is a message board and at the heart of sports message boards is a no holds barred approach to chastising your opponents interests, but please do this particular subject a bit of justice. There were many people who failed during the Sandusky Child Abuse case, many have yet to be named but most do not sit in positions at Penn State University.......they sit in organizations like the Children and Youth Program of the State of Pennsylvania, the State Government (specifically the Attorney Generals Office) and the Second Mile Charitable Organization........this is not just a Penn State scandal, it is far reaching, especially to those organizations specifically charged with the protection of youth. To think otherwise simply is not supported by the facts at this time. This was not a Penn State scandal, it was a state of Pennsylvania scandal. Either way, only individuals are culpable.

This strikes me as a very odd post. You don't want to condemn a university for the actions of its employees on its property, but you do think we should condemn charities and even the State of Pennsylvania for those same actions. Weirdest standard ever.

 

[BrianNole09]

Wow, sorry for what you went through at the hands of people that should be keeping you safe. Catholic priests are no more Godly than you or me. They are human with flaws. I swear many guys become priests due to their sexual urges. The priest that committed this horrific crime against you as a child should be killed and let God deal with him.

In was raised Catholic and my family were huge supporters of the church/congregation. When I was around 12, they shipped in a new priest. One day I was left alone with him at the church. This dude creeped me out and made me feel uncomfortable. He would look at me with a look that is hard to describe. I always managed to get away from him and the uncomfortable feeling because I knew something was not right with this dude . A few months later he was transferred, out of the blue, to another church. Fast forward 15 years and he is in the paper for abusing boys at his church. I feel lucky that I had a feeling that this dude was bad news and had the mental ability to understand this.

Again, sorry for your past BS. No kid deserves this and the church is to blame as much as the priest.

That is terrible.

I knew a lady that was abused by a Protestant preacher. Lots of deviants out there.

 

[LuteHawk]

Whether it was TV Evangelist Jimmy Swaggart or
President Bill Clinton, it is wrong to force yourself
on the opposite sex. Both Jimmy and Bill were just
rednecks from the South and thought that women
were their personal toys.

Bottom Line: A good marriage is suppose to curb
your appetite for having affairs. Yet, Jimmy and Bill
proved that cold wives make for a chilly marriage.

 

[BrianNole09]

Whether it was TV Evangelist Jimmy Swaggart or
President Bill Clinton, it is wrong to force yourself
on the opposite sex. Both Jimmy and Bill were just
rednecks from the South and thought that women
were their personal toys.

Bottom Line: A good marriage is suppose to curb
your appetite for having affairs. Yet, Jimmy and Bill
proved that cold wives make for a chilly marriage.

How do you know their wives were "cold"?

 

[LuteHawk]

Hillary Clinton has a better relationship with Huma
her assistant than she does with Bill. Listen to some
of the "friends" of the Clintons and you will know the
truth about Hillary and the truth shall set you free.

Jimmy Swiggart's wife is Francis and she is not
a warm and fuzzy person. She thinks foreplay is
watching Monday Night Football before you go to
bed with your husband.

 

[strummingram]

Hillary Clinton has a better relationship with Huma
her assistant than she does with Bill. Listen to some
of the "friends" of the Clintons and you will know the
truth about Hillary and the truth shall set you free.

Jimmy Swiggart's wife is Francis and she is not
a warm and fuzzy person. She thinks foreplay is
watching Monday Night Football before you go to
bed with your husband.

I love it when this guy posts. His eyes have GOT to be brown.

 

[strummingram]

A good marriage is suppose to curb
your appetite for having affairs.

What qualifies as "good?" You're so simple-minded. I'm envious... except that I'm not, really. It's more like I'm amazed at how simple you can be and I know you represent a lot of people like you.

Here's a thought; Why have marriage at all? That way, affairs wouldn't even be a thing to be identified!

Human beings are not inherently "mate for life"-types. The notion that it's preferred that every one of us love only ONE PERSON unconditionally is a certain formula for problems. And, true to form, that's exactly what we have. If we all treated everyone else as a "partner", then it would be a totally different understanding.

 

[strummingram]

By the way, for all of you religious people:

These words I am typing- right here and now- are the WORDS OF GOD! In fact, every word in all of these threads are also THE WORDS OF GOD.

Religion has a lot of people believing that God stopped formally communicating with us a long time ago. Or, at least the communication worth writing down, preserving, and making more religions out of them, anyway.

 

[BrianNole09]

By the way, for all of you religious people:

These words I am typing- right here and now- are the WORDS OF GOD! In fact, every word in all of these threads are also THE WORDS OF GOD.

Religion has a lot of people believing that God stopped formally communicating with us a long time ago. Or, at least the communication worth writing down, preserving, and making more religions out of them, anyway.

I don't think you're God.

No offense

 

[BrianNole09]

What qualifies as "good?" You're so simple-minded. I'm envious... except that I'm not, really. It's more like I'm amazed at how simple you can be and I know you represent a lot of people like you.

Here's a thought; Why have marriage at all? That way, affairs wouldn't even be a thing to be identified!

Human beings are not inherently "mate for life"-types. The notion that it's preferred that every one of us love only ONE PERSON unconditionally is a certain formula for problems. And, true to form, that's exactly what we have. If we all treated everyone else as a "partner", then it would be a totally different understanding.

The purpose of marriage is to create and raise the next generation in the best possible environment, in my opinion.

Children raised by single Mother's generally do much worse in life. That's a fact.

 

[cigaretteman]

I don't accept that I have any need for a personal lord or savior.

 

[strummingram]

I don't think you're God.

No offense

I don't think the Roman Catholic Church is the authority on who or what is God. So, we're even.

 

[BrianNole09]

I don't think the Roman Catholic Church is the authority on who or what is God. So, we're even.

Fair enough.

 

[LuteHawk]

It takes a humble person to admit the need for
Jesus Christ in his or her life. Proud people prefer
to be independent and do not want Christ as the
Lord of their life. Proud people refuse to admit they
are sinners who need Jesus Christ as their Savior
who forgives their sin.

Bottom Line: Proud people dismiss the person of
Jesus Christ because they live in a man-centered
world rather than a God-centered world.

 

[strummingram]

The purpose of marriage is to create and raise the next generation in the best possible environment, in my opinion.

Well... it's time for a newer, better system.

I see "marriage" as a dying, archaic institution.