Does Ahron Ulis Pass Joe Toussaint on the Depth Chart Next Year?

[IowasLaw]

The tv commentators absolutely rave about Toussaint every time he steps on the court. He's lightning quick and fun to watch, traits the Hawks desperately need. But in spite of the flash and swagger, the guy is a liability out there more often than not, and his minutes are down as a result.

Toussaint shoots just 25% from 3. While he can drive, it's generally reckless and out of control. If he doesn't get called for the charge or dribble it off his foot (he had 3 more turnovers today in limited mins vs. Northwestern), he shoots just 65% from the free throw line.

Granted, as long as a guard can protect the ball and feed the other shooters on the court, he can still be a valuable weapon without hitting shots (i.e. Connor). However, Toussaint hasn't yet figured out how to protect the ball (he ranks 1st on the team in turnovers despite being 9th in minutes played). His assist to turnover ratio is 36:23. By comparison, Connor's is 61:11 and Bohannan's is 69:20. Ulis, who doesn't play much, is 11:4.

So where does Ulis fit in next year when Bohannan moves on? Does he start over Toussaint? Ulis, a 4**** recruit, was higher rated coming out of high school. Given his pedigree, with a brother in the NBA, he probably has the higher ceiling.

The better point guard will get the bulk of the minutes next year and they will make or break whether it's an NCAA tourney year or a rebuilding year. Who will it be?

 

[unoHawkeye]

Toussaint starts, assuming he keeps putting in the work, but Ulis will have the opportunity to play more minutes off the bench imo. I still think Joe will be a heckuva player for the Hawks and starting Ulis over him would be a really good way to get Toussaint to look elsewhere. As usual, the better player in a given game will log the majority of the minutes

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Joe played his way up to ESPN 4*, ranked somewhere between 105 and around 120. Ahron did the same on Rivals.

Joe will start. More experienced and much quicker and probably much stronger (Joe is cut). Think Joey T is trying to do too much in limited minutes this season. Next season, back to starting, we'll see an even better Joey T. Obviously Ahron will get play what I'd guess to be around 15 minutes a game and heavier in the games where Joey T is in foul trouble, cuz there will be some of those as well.

 

[Bee93]

I hope so. I always want the younger unknown to be better than the guy he will be competing with/replacing. That’s how a program continues to grow and despite Fran having built a great team, Iowa is still a program that needs to continue growing. That being said, I think Toussaint has tremendous upside. Still learning and improving, and had a couple of sick dimes today. Future looks bright.

 

[24 so far]

The tv commentators absolutely rave about Toussaint every time he steps on the court. He's lightning quick and fun to watch, traits the Hawks desperately need. But in spite of the flash and swagger, the guy is a liability out there more often than not, and his minutes are down as a result.

Toussaint shoots just 25% from 3. While he can drive, it's generally reckless and out of control. If he doesn't get called for the charge or dribble it off his foot (he had 3 more turnovers today in limited mins vs. Northwestern), he shoots just 65% from the free throw line.

Granted, as long as a guard can protect the ball and feed the other shooters on the court, he can still be a valuable weapon without hitting shots (i.e. Connor). However, Toussaint hasn't yet figured out how to protect the ball (he ranks 1st on the team in turnovers despite being 9th in minutes played). His assist to turnover ratio is 36:23. By comparison, Connor's is 61:11 and Bohannan's is 69:20. Ulis, who doesn't play much, is 11:4.

So where does Ulis fit in next year when Bohannan moves on? Does he start over Toussaint? Ulis, a 4**** recruit, was higher rated coming out of high school. Given his pedigree, with a brother in the NBA, he probably has the higher ceiling.

The better point guard will get the bulk of the minutes next year and they will make or break whether it's an NCAA tourney year or a rebuilding year. Who will it be?

We haven't seen Ulis enough to really evaluate him thoroughly, but in his limited time I don't recall him doing anything bad(?) and he handles the ball well, active on Defense, great free throw shooter, nothing flashy.

So based on just that, he does good things out there, he's My starter, and frankly for me it's an easy choice.

Joe T does some really good things, in spurts, but backs that up with really bad things too. His offense is marginal at best.

It's Aaron Ulis for me, because he appears to be a more steady hand.

 

[RocknRollface]

I think they play close to the same minutes next year.

Iowa will still be a very deep experienced team next year.

Im guessing

1.Joe T/Ulis
2. CJ, Perkins
3. Weez, Pat, Kris
4. Connor, Keegan
5. Nunge, JO

I can't believe I'm typing a line up that doesn't have Keegan as a starter because I think he's probably the best player on the team next year. Should get starter minutes.

Without question this will be Frans best defensive team.

 

[Steve Waite]

Ulis is going to be the starter next year by the time Big Ten season starts. Joe T is too inconsistent. Joe T needs to continue to work on his shot. Ulis will have a better assist to turnover ratio, better ft shooter. They’ll both play a lot but Ulis is the better PG.

 

[kcgolfer]

The tv commentators absolutely rave about Toussaint every time he steps on the court. He's lightning quick and fun to watch, traits the Hawks desperately need. But in spite of the flash and swagger, the guy is a liability out there more often than not, and his minutes are down as a result.

Toussaint shoots just 25% from 3. While he can drive, it's generally reckless and out of control. If he doesn't get called for the charge or dribble it off his foot (he had 3 more turnovers today in limited mins vs. Northwestern), he shoots just 65% from the free throw line.

Granted, as long as a guard can protect the ball and feed the other shooters on the court, he can still be a valuable weapon without hitting shots (i.e. Connor). However, Toussaint hasn't yet figured out how to protect the ball (he ranks 1st on the team in turnovers despite being 9th in minutes played). His assist to turnover ratio is 36:23. By comparison, Connor's is 61:11 and Bohannan's is 69:20. Ulis, who doesn't play much, is 11:4.

So where does Ulis fit in next year when Bohannan moves on? Does he start over Toussaint? Ulis, a 4**** recruit, was higher rated coming out of high school. Given his pedigree, with a brother in the NBA, he probably has the higher ceiling.

The better point guard will get the bulk of the minutes next year and they will make or break whether it's an NCAA tourney year or a rebuilding year. Who will it be?

Joe will start. Book it. He is not a liability. He changes the game every time he comes in.

 

[MAXIMUSHAWKEYE]

I hope Joe T really improves by next year. Somewhat disapointed in his maturation. I figured he would be much more polished by now. He has so much athletic ability. If he figures it out he still could be the best player on this team by next year.

 

[Sheahawk]

Ulis can also play the two, so there may be times (next year) where they'll both be on the floor together although it won't typically be for very long.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

To use baseball terms, Joe T is a great reliever with a 100mph fastball. You get used to the starters playing at their speed and then he comes in throwing fireballs that you just can’t recreate in practice. Sometimes you get wild pitches or a bad turnover. But often times you get plays other guys just can’t make.

I like Joe coming off of the bench for that reason right now. If he can get rid of the bad plays and improve his outside shooting a bit, I could see him starting in the future. But at his age, shooting isn’t something that you significantly improve in the offseason. The mistakes will be the big thing that he can work on with more experience and confidence.

 

[natchrlman]

so is Perkins a off guard... he came off the bench first and wondered if Ulis was hurt.... I thought he looked good too.... I’m an old wrestler and don’t know much about basketball...... Iowa men and women’s teams all I watch

 

[Hawksfor3]

Ulis can also play the two, so there may be times (next year) where they'll both be on the floor together although it won't typically be for very long.

Yeah, I'd like to see them both on the floor together, dishing dimes and creating havoc for defenses. Should be fun and speedy as well with Perkins in there with them.

 

[unoHawkeye]

so is Perkins a off guard... he came off the bench first and wondered if Ulis was hurt.... I thought he looked good too.... I’m an old wrestler and don’t know much about basketball...... Iowa men and women’s teams all I watch

Yeah he’s more of a 2/3 and Ulis is a PG with the size to play some off guard as well. I think Perkins came in first because Fran was trying to get Toussaint some extra minutes and build confidence

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I think they play close to the same minutes next year.

Iowa will still be a very deep experienced team next year.

Im guessing

1.Joe T/Ulis
2. CJ, Perkins
3. Weez, Pat, Kris
4. Connor, Keegan
5. Nunge, JO

I can't believe I'm typing a line up that doesn't have Keegan as a starter because I think he's probably the best player on the team next year. Should get starter minutes.

Without question this will be Frans best defensive team.

Spot on! In just one season Ke Murray has gone from unknown unranked two star recruit to I assume leader for Big Ten 6th MoY. Keegan impacts the games in so many different ways. Great move to work open for that short hopper in the lane today, two blocked shots, etc...

Keegan and Patrick consume significant court space defensively, disrupting 30 feet from the basket and blocking shots. Joey T is a ball hawk and a stopper and CJ is pretty good defender and ball stopper. C McC and Joe Dubya are not bad defenders. While I think Jack will lose a lot of deep positional battles I also think he will block quite a few shots.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

The tv commentators absolutely rave about Toussaint every time he steps on the court. He's lightning quick and fun to watch, traits the Hawks desperately need. But in spite of the flash and swagger, the guy is a liability out there more often than not, and his minutes are down as a result.

Toussaint shoots just 25% from 3. While he can drive, it's generally reckless and out of control. If he doesn't get called for the charge or dribble it off his foot (he had 3 more turnovers today in limited mins vs. Northwestern), he shoots just 65% from the free throw line.

Granted, as long as a guard can protect the ball and feed the other shooters on the court, he can still be a valuable weapon without hitting shots (i.e. Connor). However, Toussaint hasn't yet figured out how to protect the ball (he ranks 1st on the team in turnovers despite being 9th in minutes played). His assist to turnover ratio is 36:23. By comparison, Connor's is 61:11 and Bohannan's is 69:20. Ulis, who doesn't play much, is 11:4.

So where does Ulis fit in next year when Bohannan moves on? Does he start over Toussaint? Ulis, a 4**** recruit, was higher rated coming out of high school. Given his pedigree, with a brother in the NBA, he probably has the higher ceiling.

The better point guard will get the bulk of the minutes next year and they will make or break whether it's an NCAA tourney year or a rebuilding year. Who will it be?

Using this years stats to say “Joe is a 25% shooter from 3 and 65% shooter from the FT line” is not really fair to Joe. Last year’s stats may be better indication as there was no Jordan B so was counted on for more minutes. Joe shot the ball much better last year than I expected. Would it be fair to say Ullis has only shot 5 less 3 point shots than Joe but has missed every one he has taken so Joe is the better 3 point shooter? I mean Ulis is shooting 0% from 3! My God!..... I’m just wondering why Joe is “25% from 3 and 65% FT shooter” and not 30% 3 point shooter and 83% FT shooter he was last year from a larger sample size. I think last year’s or combine them is a better indication.

 

[aurorabimmer]

Fran had both JT and Ulis playing at the same time in the game.

 

[mooresville hawk]

We have a very fickle fan base. Earlier this year, there was a rather vocal contingent on this board calling for Joe T to start over Jordan. Now, Joe T is going to be passed by Ulis. This could happen, but I fully expect Joe to start the year as the starter since he has more experience.

I believe this year will not count for Ulis and Perkins and they will still have four more to play. I expect them to get a lot of minutes next year.

 

[24 so far]

We have a very fickle fan base. Earlier this year, there was a rather vocal contingent on this board calling for Joe T to start over Jordan. Now, Joe T is going to be passed by Ulis. This could happen, but I fully expect Joe to start the year as the starter since he has more experience.

I believe this year will not count for Ulis and Perkins and they will still have four more to play. I expect them to get a lot of minutes next year.

We have a typical fan base. There isn't anything special about the "fickleness" of it.

This year doesn't count for anybody. Whomever wants to come back can, except you might run into a little scholarship issue (not sure how that is being handled).

Iowa only has one scholarship out to Sandfort, and Garza won't be coming back, so just that alone Iowa is in a good place from that perspective. JBo gone too I'm sure. (he could make a run at an overseas payday I believe, not sure how realistic but everybody needs shooters)

 

[UncannyNanny]

Joe T needs to realize he will never be a shooter. If he accepts that and focuses on being a manager he will be good. Joe T could be really good while only average 8 points a game. If Ulis is a better shooter he will probably get the keys.

 

[BirdistheWord]

Yes. He is a better pure point guard in my eyes. I think they both play quite a few minutes. Fran's teams have some grey area on traditional positions, and he likes to have more passers, so should continue to see a lot of 4 guard lineups on the floor.

 

[24 so far]

I'm still surprised Joe T doesn't get called more often for a carry the way he dribbles up by his head in the open court. Think it's only happened once IIRC.

 

[unoHawkeye]

I think they play close to the same minutes next year.

Iowa will still be a very deep experienced team next year.

Im guessing

1.Joe T/Ulis
2. CJ, Perkins
3. Weez, Pat, Kris
4. Connor, Keegan
5. Nunge, JO

I can't believe I'm typing a line up that doesn't have Keegan as a starter because I think he's probably the best player on the team next year. Should get starter minutes.

Without question this will be Frans best defensive team.

It’s comforting knowing that, should Wieskamp decide that this is it, we’ve got another Murray waiting in the wings to take substantial minutes

 

[jonesy5960]

I think they play close to the same minutes next year.

Iowa will still be a very deep experienced team next year.

Im guessing

1.Joe T/Ulis
2. CJ, Perkins
3. Weez, Pat, Kris
4. Connor, Keegan
5. Nunge, JO

I can't believe I'm typing a line up that doesn't have Keegan as a starter because I think he's probably the best player on the team next year. Should get starter minutes.

Without question this will be Frans best defensive team.

I'm thinking Keegan starts next year. After Garza he's the best all around player on the team and I don't think it's all that close. Logically speaking, the only way to get starter's minutes is to start, sooo... I agree this will be Fran's best defensive team by far.

 

[unoHawkeye]

I'm thinking Keegan starts next year. After Garza he's the best all around player on the team and I don't think it's all that close. Logically speaking, the only way to get starter's minutes is to start, sooo... I agree this will be Fran's best defensive team by far.

The dynamic of next year’s team is going to be very interesting. I think it’s safe to say that overall shooting will take a dip losing Bohannon and Garza. It’s one reason I really hope Wieskamp chooses to stay, but if he goes, then it may be more valuable having a guy who can pass other players open and make the offense run like Connor starting over Keegan (though I agree with you and RocknRoll that Keegan is the better overall player). Keegan will log heavy minutes regardless, and almost certainly be in in crunch time

If Joe goes, then I’d be willing to bet that both Connor and Keegan start

 

[ObeseMuffins]

I would like to see this lineup: Ulis, JT, CJ, Wiesy, and Keegan.

 

[pocha444444]

I'm still surprised Joe T doesn't get called more often for a carry the way he dribbles up by his head in the open court. Think it's only happened once IIRC.

His hand is usually on top of the ball, but yes I agree, it's shocking college refs aren't fooled by this more often like they are with everything else.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

so is Perkins a off guard... he came off the bench first and wondered if Ulis was hurt.... I thought he looked good too.... I’m an old wrestler and don’t know much about basketball...... Iowa men and women’s teams all I watch

You got it wrastler. Perkins is not a point guard. You probably know more about bb than many of the posters on here who THINK they know a lot (like me).

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

I would like to see this lineup: Ulis, JT, CJ, Wiesy, and Keegan.

Wow, Keegan guarding a Kofi Cockburn and Weisy guarding the 4? Might struggle a bit rebounding.

 

[Ladell-hawk]

The tv commentators absolutely rave about Toussaint every time he steps on the court. He's lightning quick and fun to watch, traits the Hawks desperately need. But in spite of the flash and swagger, the guy is a liability out there more often than not, and his minutes are down as a result.

Toussaint shoots just 25% from 3. While he can drive, it's generally reckless and out of control. If he doesn't get called for the charge or dribble it off his foot (he had 3 more turnovers today in limited mins vs. Northwestern), he shoots just 65% from the free throw line.

Granted, as long as a guard can protect the ball and feed the other shooters on the court, he can still be a valuable weapon without hitting shots (i.e. Connor). However, Toussaint hasn't yet figured out how to protect the ball (he ranks 1st on the team in turnovers despite being 9th in minutes played). His assist to turnover ratio is 36:23. By comparison, Connor's is 61:11 and Bohannan's is 69:20. Ulis, who doesn't play much, is 11:4.

So where does Ulis fit in next year when Bohannan moves on? Does he start over Toussaint? Ulis, a 4**** recruit, was higher rated coming out of high school. Given his pedigree, with a brother in the NBA, he probably has the higher ceiling.

The better point guard will get the bulk of the minutes next year and they will make or break whether it's an NCAA tourney year or a rebuilding year. Who will it be?

Joe T will start and Ahron will play a lot too. Ahron will be a combo guard who can play both guard spots. Joe T is a great defender, and does a great job of getting the ball inside and running the break. Ahron looks like he too will be an excellent defender. I believe Joe T will cut down his turnovers as he plays more.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

His hand is usually on top of the ball, but yes I agree, it's shocking college refs aren't fooled by this more often like they are with everything else.

If the game were called like it was 40-50 years ago there would be 30 “carrying” calls a game.

 

[retrohawki]

I’ve never been sold on Joe T being a P5 basketball player. Can’t dribble can’t shoot and he plays the pg position.

 

[RocknRollface]

I'm thinking Keegan starts next year. After Garza he's the best all around player on the team and I don't think it's all that close. Logically speaking, the only way to get starter's minutes is to start, sooo... I agree this will be Fran's best defensive team by far.

The only scenario I see for him to start is Connor starts at the 1. I don't see that happening.

6th men often play close to as many minutes as the starters.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

My hunch is Joe T is pressing a little too much trying to earn more playing time. I'd like to see how Joe looks as a starter and evaluate from there.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

I’ve never been sold on Joe T being a P5 basketball player. Can’t dribble can’t shoot and he plays the pg position.

Wrong.

 

[kceasthawk]

We have a very fickle fan base. Earlier this year, there was a rather vocal contingent on this board calling for Joe T to start over Jordan. Now, Joe T is going to be passed by Ulis. This could happen, but I fully expect Joe to start the year as the starter since he has more experience.

I believe this year will not count for Ulis and Perkins and they will still have four more to play. I expect them to get a lot of minutes next year.

I still find it amazing that many people think these kids are going to stay in college for five years because of covid. Sure it could be an option of course, but I'd bet about 90% of these kids are not going to be here for five years barring an injury. Its great for fans who like to see these kids as older mature players, but most will play next level or move on with their lives.

 

[pocha444444]

If the game were called like it was 40-50 years ago there would be 30 “carrying” calls a game.

Man that had to be terrible to watch.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Man that had to be terrible to watch.

Watch Ronnie Lester in 1980. He wasn’t terrible to watch.

 

[retrohawki]

Wrong.

You think he plays a position other than pg?

 

[Hawkfan_08]

My hunch is Joe T is pressing a little too much trying to earn more playing time. I'd like to see how Joe looks as a starter and evaluate from there.

I absolutely have wondered the same thing. A kid who was a starter for Bohannon or at least had tons of minutes has now been buried. He's great off the bench and is an immediate spark plug but there has to be part of him thinking that he played a ton more last year and wants that opportunity.