Electric car owners and enthusiasts, prepare yourself for the problem in your future.
- Thread starter abby97
- Start date
Costs were "the point".
When someone posted a false "story" about a battery costing "$14k" to replace.
When did brakes become part of the engine?
I already included water pumps in a previous post. Three on the Honda (as part of the timing belt change every 100-125k miles).
Never had to change an alternator. Figure probably four batteries at $100 each.
I had to replace one oxygen sensor on the Chevy. That was about $70.
One serpentine belt. That was about $30 and took me 5 minutes to replace.
Never had to replace a fuel filter. Oil filters were already discussed.
Dude, you still have about $50,000 to go in order to justify your earlier claim. You’re gonna have to start making up imaginary vehicle components. Really, really expensive ones.
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So what you’re saying is @abby97 is full of shit like usual?
When they recharge an EV battery, reducing the wear on pads and rotors, substantially.
Are they not a "cost" for vehicle maintenance? You never replaced any in "200k miles"?
LOLWUT?
You're well over 50% off your original "cost" claim. I'm sure there's more, because you don't seem to "remember" very well here.
You claimed it “EASILY” costs $14,000 in engine maintenance and repairs to drive a gas vehicle 150K to 200K miles.
If you extrapolate that over a period of 22 years and 780,000 miles driven, those maintenance and repair expenses should have added up to somewhere between $54,600 and $72,800.
780,000 miles divided by 200,000 miles equals 3.9.
3.9 times $14,000 equals $54,600.
780,000 miles divided by 150,000 miles equals 5.2.
5.2 times $14,000 equals $72,800.
Agreed?
I forgot about the $30 serpentine belt I replaced and apparently we’re including brake pads and rotors as “engine maintenance”, but I would have to remember a lot more shit to add up to $55,000.
And I've posted a link for you that substantiates that, for MANY luxury autos which are comparable in performance to a Tesla.
You posted a link that says if you drive a Mercedes-Benz, Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche, or BMW for 10 years then you will spend more than $14,000 in total vehicle maintenance and repairs. That assumes that you pay a mechanic to do absolutely every little thing and it doesn't differentiate between engine-related maintenance and repairs (which is the topic at hand) and non-engine-related maintenance and repairs, such as steering and suspension and tires and heating and air conditioning systems.
And when did you decide to change the discussion to strictly Teslas and high performance luxury vehicles? The vehicle in the OP was a Ford Fusion. I told you my expenses for a Honda Civic and a Chevy Impala. You know, the kinds of vehicles most Americans drive.
We can limit the discussion to Teslas and comparable vehicles if you want to. But you'll then have to consider the total cost of a Tesla. The base Model 3 starts at $47,000. The more luxurious Model S starts at $97,000 and goes well over $100K depending on the trim and options you want. And the battery unit are far more than $14,000 to replace when your 1500 charging cycles are used up after a few years. That's probably not a realistic option for most Americans.
And, oh yeah, if you want one this year then you're shit out of luck. Delivery on a new Tesla is sometime next year. Looks like you'll be Ubering a lot over the next 6-7 months while you wait for your new car to be built.
See, here's the thing - we weren't discussing any of those five vehicles makes and we were discussing only engine-related maintenance and repairs, not total vehicle maintenance and repairs.
Hopefully now you can finally see where you went wrong.
Hopefully now, you can see that the original post is a bunch of nonsense, and that it IS more expensive to maintain any ICE vehicle than an EV over the long haul.
Your link showed that five high performance luxury vehicle makes are expensive to maintain. These are brands that most Americans will never own.
Your link didn’t include Chevrolet, it didn’t include Ford, it didn’t include Honda, and it didn’t include Toyota. You know - the vehicles that the vast majority of Americans drive every day.
Even the vehicles it did include such as Lexus and Acura were well below the $14,000 mark you insisted they would cost.
#can’treadyourowngoddamnpostsandlinks
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Which are comparable to the EVs people are talking about.
And those are the ones that exceed the already highly inflated $$ posted, which we've already shown you is complete BS.
It's troubling that you cannot admit EVs are cheaper to maintain than ICE vehicles. Because that is the reality.
You’re moving goalposts again and tripping over yourself in the process.
It’s entirely possible that EVs are cheaper on average to maintain than ICE vehicles. But that’s not the claim you made and then failed to substantiate.
You arrogantly insisted that “ANY” gas vehicle will “EASILY” cost $14,000 or more to maintain over a 10-year period. That claim is complete horseshit and YOUR OWN LINK proves it. Lexus and Acura don’t cost anywhere near $14,000 and your list didn’t even include the most commonly owned vehicles, which cost even less to maintain.
You lost. End of debate. Go shit in someone else’s sandbox for awhile.
Testosterone runs thick here on “HORT” even after a good night’s Sleep!
It's not "entirely possible"
It is being demonstrated for you. Along with the fallacy that battery replacements cost $15000
The number quoted was $14K, not $15K. But it doesn’t really matter because it’s not a fallacy unless you mean in the sense that they’re actually more expensive. Tesla batteries can cost as much as $20,000.
You are the type of American it is easy to hate.
Not to mention the uncomfortable reality of having to use coal/gas/diesel to produce the electricity to charge EV’s.
‘Green’ energy, though.
LOTS of people use their own solar to charge their EVs.
And with more and more wind energy coming online, there's ample green energy to charge them.
You're getting dumber with each new identity. Lol.
Well, Telsa, alone, has installed a quarter million of their "power walls" to charge their cars.
So, it's a reasonable bet that north of 500,000+ people charge their EVs with their own solar. Anyone with solar panels and an EV charges at home, overnight. So, look up solar panel installs in the US and EV sales if you want a rough picture of what those numbers look like.
Soon millions of EV owners will be towing trailers with solar panels or mini windmills, charging their batteries as they drive and making charging stations a thing of the past.
Green Revolution.
Green Revolution.
No.
You lose energy "towing a windmill". And you cannot charge an EV with a single set of panels on a trailer. But you can generate ample green energy to recharge them, which is pretty well established right now
Just as ICE have benefited from technological innovation ... so are EVs. Battery and battery-interface technologies are continuously evolving. Given the era of renewables - there is a coinciding need for electric energy storage. While folks over-emphasize Tesla's cars ... the REAL vision had by Tesla was the development of a electric infrastructure. Tesla sells solar-cells with electric-storage units (batteries) ... with the intent of decentralizing the power grid (and making it less dependent on production-on-demand).
As a flavor of the sort of developments in battery technology ...
Four-million-mile battery is now a reality
Dahn, a world-renowned battery scientist and NSERC/Tesla Canada Chair, presented the exciting news during his keynote presentation (titled: More than a million miles and a century of life) at the international battery seminar (IBS) held 28 -31 March 2022 in Orlando, Florida. The term “Million...
nickelinstitute.org
Probably meant facetiously ... but the caveat here with solar-panels is insufficient surface area and consistent sun (unless you're in southwest). The caveat of most windmill/turbine technology on a moving vehicle is the resulting turbulent eddies formed (i.e. causing "dead air"). This generates larger pressure differences, increasing drag. For a car - one of the main things you're energetically combating is drag.
Just as ICE have benefited from technological innovation ... so are EVs. Battery and battery-interface technologies are continuously evolving. Given the era of renewables - there is a coinciding need for electric energy storage. While folks over-emphasize Tesla's cars ... the REAL vision had by Tesla was the development of a electric infrastructure. Tesla sells solar-cells with electric-storage units (batteries) ... with the intent of decentralizing the power grid (and making it less dependent on production-on-demand).
As a flavor of the sort of developments in battery technology ...
Four-million-mile battery is now a reality
Dahn, a world-renowned battery scientist and NSERC/Tesla Canada Chair, presented the exciting news during his keynote presentation (titled: More than a million miles and a century of life) at the international battery seminar (IBS) held 28 -31 March 2022 in Orlando, Florida. The term “Million...
Liquid nanotech battery
You refuel basically like you would gas; drain the spent fuel, fill with charged fuel.
Illinois Tech ‘Spinout’ Startup Influit Energy Has Created the World’s First Rechargeable, Safe, Electric Fuel
It was only a matter of time—before Influit Energy would need to hire more scientists, before the 2,100-square-foot
www.iit.edu
“We have created a new type of flow battery that is predicated upon a composite material that we invented, which is a nanofluid where the nanoparticles are battery-active materials, which we called nanoelectrofuel, or NEF,” says John Katsoudas (M.S. PHYS ’03), co-founder and CEO of Influit Energy. “All of the technology has come together—we have a crystal-clear path before us.”
Katsoudas calls Influit Energy a “spinout” of Illinois Tech. Leading the company alongside him are two co-founders: Elena Timofeeva, chief operating officer, director of research and development, and a research associate professor of chemistry at Illinois Tech, and Carlo Segre, chief technology officer, chief financial officer, and a professor of physics at Illinois Tech. Segre is also director of the Center for Synchrotron Radiation Research and Instrumentation at Illinois Tech, which operates two sectors of the Advanced Photon Source at Argonne National Laboratory, a resource that Influit Energy occasionally utilizes.
“[Influit Energy’s research] started back in 2009 as a basic science investigation when we were at Illinois Tech and Argonne National Laboratory, and we have taken our technology from basic science development, to applied science, to building prototypes, and now our first product development,” Katsoudas says.
The United States government has also played a critical role in Influit Energy’s growth, awarding the company more than $10 million in contracts to fund the design and fabrication of NEF flow battery prototypes that will allow several agencies to utilize Influit Energy’s batteries in electric vehicles and aircraft.
“The unique high-energy density liquid format of the NEF flow batteries allows use of the same fluids in different devices, meaning fluid, charged at the recharging station from renewable energy sources or a grid, can be used to rapidly refuel vehicles, or for stationary storage and other large portable applications,” Timofeeva says. “Discharged fluid can be returned to a recharge/refuel station for recharging or be charged inside the device by plugging into the power source.”
TECHNOLOGY | Influit Energy
www.influitenergy.com
How does this technology compare with other emerging solutions for this application, including Liion batteries and fuel cells?"
NEF Gen1 system will be 23% greater energy density for the same system volume than Li-ion at ½ the cost. Gen2 will be 5X increase at system level over Li-ion and 1/3 the cost.
If they even come close to meeting those goals, this is a new battery configuration paradigm.
A liquid "battery tank".
Lots of research on solid-state battery tech too.Liquid nanotech battery
You refuel basically like you would gas; drain the spent fuel, fill with charged fuel.
Illinois Tech ‘Spinout’ Startup Influit Energy Has Created the World’s First Rechargeable, Safe, Electric Fuel
It was only a matter of time—before Influit Energy would need to hire more scientists, before the 2,100-square-foot
“We have created a new type of flow battery that is predicated upon a composite material that we invented, which is a nanofluid where the nanoparticles are battery-active materials, which we called nanoelectrofuel, or NEF,” says John Katsoudas (M.S. PHYS ’03), co-founder and CEO of Influit Energy. “All of the technology has come together—we have a crystal-clear path before us.”Katsoudas calls Influit Energy a “spinout” of Illinois Tech. Leading the company alongside him are two co-founders: Elena Timofeeva, chief operating officer, director of research and development, and a research associate professor of chemistry at Illinois Tech, and Carlo Segre, chief technology officer, chief financial officer, and a professor of physics at Illinois Tech. Segre is also director of the Center for Synchrotron Radiation Research and Instrumentation at Illinois Tech, which operates two sectors of the Advanced Photon Source at Argonne National Laboratory, a resource that Influit Energy occasionally utilizes.“[Influit Energy’s research] started back in 2009 as a basic science investigation when we were at Illinois Tech and Argonne National Laboratory, and we have taken our technology from basic science development, to applied science, to building prototypes, and now our first product development,” Katsoudas says.The United States government has also played a critical role in Influit Energy’s growth, awarding the company more than $10 million in contracts to fund the design and fabrication of NEF flow battery prototypes that will allow several agencies to utilize Influit Energy’s batteries in electric vehicles and aircraft.“The unique high-energy density liquid format of the NEF flow batteries allows use of the same fluids in different devices, meaning fluid, charged at the recharging station from renewable energy sources or a grid, can be used to rapidly refuel vehicles, or for stationary storage and other large portable applications,” Timofeeva says. “Discharged fluid can be returned to a recharge/refuel station for recharging or be charged inside the device by plugging into the power source.”
TECHNOLOGY | Influit Energy
How does this technology compare with other emerging solutions for this application, including Liion batteries and fuel cells?"NEF Gen1 system will be 23% greater energy density for the same system volume than Li-ion at ½ the cost. Gen2 will be 5X increase at system level over Li-ion and 1/3 the cost.
If they even come close to meeting those goals, this is a new battery configuration paradigm.
A liquid "battery tank".
On top of that - in many instances for EVs, extended range versions of a vehicle don't involve a different battery ... but instead involve software that simply utilizes energy more effectively/efficiently. Thus, the interface controlling how the battery is used is also of critical importance.
