First party to the middle wins...

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
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Too bad neither are showing the slightest inclination in that direction. Massive self-own by both parties.

Must read here:

Overcoming the Democratic Party brand

Cliff notes...no matter how much the Democrats insist on this board that the Democrats are totally mainstream, they aren't convincing the public. Republicans are DEFINITELY considered extreme...but the Democrats equally so. And in fact since most people shade themselves center-right, they rate themselves further from the Democrats than the Republicans.

(Here's where we get a string of progressives insisting that somehow everyone is merely FOOLED into thinking the Democrats are extreme, despite progressives having captured every university, every major media outlet outside of Fox News, etc)

Which party blinks first? Do either?

I go back and forth on that. Sometimes I think the Democrats could shift so much damn easier, they will be the ones. I already saw it in my lifetime with Bill Clinton...the game plan is right there. They don't have a particular individual to overcome like the Republicans have.

On the flip side, maybe that makes it more difficult? The Democrats have been hijacked by more of a set of ideas than a person that they can theoretically just move beyond. They've already turned over their newsrooms, universities, foundations, campaign apparatus, etc to the shrill woke true believers, is that actually harder to dismantle than the Republicans band of idiots that have abandoned the vast majority of their principles?

My gut feeling is still that Democrats can still make the move center a little more smoothly should they choose to, because they don't actually have a single individual that can cause chaos. They just need the right person...but I'm not sure who that is.
 

Finance85

HR Legend
Oct 22, 2003
18,757
20,236
113
The thread title is correct. The problem for Dems is they won't want to slow down the worst of their agenda because that would be an admission they've been a bit overzealous, or just wrong. The problem for the GOP is they never actually accomplish anything, and the only play in their playbook is cutting taxes, even (and especially) when that's not an appropriate solution.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
11,045
113
The thread title is correct. The problem for Dems is they won't want to slow down the worst of their agenda because that would be an admission they've been a bit overzealous, or just wrong. The problem for the GOP is they never actually accomplish anything, and the only play in their playbook is cutting taxes, even (and especially) when that's not an appropriate solution.

And it's a massive game of chicken. The shittiness of one party enables the other party to be worse, they're both playing a game of "but not as bad as."

Eventually, it seems like one has to break.
 

West Duval Nole

HR Heisman
Dec 16, 2013
6,717
7,868
113
Jacksonville
And it's a massive game of chicken. The shittiness of one party enables the other party to be worse, they're both playing a game of "but not as bad as."

Eventually, it seems like one has to break.
Unfortunately I think the only way to break it is for another legitimate third party to be created. And there isn't enough time and money for that to happen in our life times. So the people stuck in the middle have to swing the elections to one party, then the other.
 

tarheelbybirth

HR King
Apr 17, 2003
68,825
53,911
113
Too bad neither are showing the slightest inclination in that direction. Massive self-own by both parties.

Must read here:

Overcoming the Democratic Party brand

Cliff notes...no matter how much the Democrats insist on this board that the Democrats are totally mainstream, they aren't convincing the public. Republicans are DEFINITELY considered extreme...but the Democrats equally so. And in fact since most people shade themselves center-right, they rate themselves further from the Democrats than the Republicans.

(Here's where we get a string of progressives insisting that somehow everyone is merely FOOLED into thinking the Democrats are extreme, despite progressives having captured every university, every major media outlet outside of Fox News, etc)

Which party blinks first? Do either?

I go back and forth on that. Sometimes I think the Democrats could shift so much damn easier, they will be the ones. I already saw it in my lifetime with Bill Clinton...the game plan is right there. They don't have a particular individual to overcome like the Republicans have.

On the flip side, maybe that makes it more difficult? The Democrats have been hijacked by more of a set of ideas than a person that they can theoretically just move beyond. They've already turned over their newsrooms, universities, foundations, campaign apparatus, etc to the shrill woke true believers, is that actually harder to dismantle than the Republicans band of idiots that have abandoned the vast majority of their principles?

My gut feeling is still that Democrats can still make the move center a little more smoothly should they choose to, because they don't actually have a single individual that can cause chaos. They just need the right person...but I'm not sure who that is.
LOL...how old are you? Clinton was so "totally mainstream" and "centrist" that the GOP took 54 House and 9 U.S. Senate seats in 94 and flipped both to the GOP for the first time in over forty years. They held both throughout Clinton's presidency. Now tell me again how the electorate hasn't been fooled.
 

Finance85

HR Legend
Oct 22, 2003
18,757
20,236
113
Unfortunately I think the only way to break it is for another legitimate third party to be created. And there isn't enough time and money for that to happen in our life times. So the people stuck in the middle have to swing the elections to one party, then the other.
For reals. And they often don't have any say until the general election because of partisan primaries. The current game is the primaries give us more extremes, and we have to trust the nominees to gravitate back toward the middle, or else try to pick the less extreme candidate in the general election.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
11,045
113
LOL...how old are you? Clinton was so "totally mainstream" and "centrist" that the GOP took 54 House and 9 U.S. Senate seats in 94 and flipped both to the GOP for the first time in over forty years. They held both throughout Clinton's presidency. Now tell me again how the electorate hasn't been fooled.

That's a very fair point.

But it is undeniable that Clinton pulled the Democrats to the center after getting their dicks absolutely stomped for three presidential elections in a row. The examples are numerous, from welfare reform, to crime, to free trade, capital punishment, on and on and on. Clinton shed the vast majority of the Democrats most "unpopular with the masses" positions, and did it easily with barely a pushback.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
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113
I wish the middle would win. Before social media I think it could and did happen.

Well, here's the ironic thing. If Elon Musk destroys Twitter, or even just de-liberalizes it by 30-40%, that could be the best gift the Democratic party ever had.

Twitter in total is extremely far left. The mapping of all its political posts would put it at the most liberal state in the union (Hawaii I think?). But more so than that, a relatively small number of posters account for like 80% of the politics on Twitter, and they map to the most liberal district in the country.

Twitter is the germination point for SO much of what dogs people trying to position the Democrats more to the middle. Twitter is the source of the cancellation brigades, the purging of newsrooms and companies of anyone who dare question the furthest left orthodoxy. Tik Tok is probably equally liberal, but ultimately is not the home of journalism, news, politicians, companies, etc. Twitter crazies have a WAY outsized effect pushing the most extreme aspects of progressive causes into the "real world".

Put it this way...fill a bar with average democratic voters in any town outside Seattle, Portland or San Francisco. Walk in and say "You know what...13 year olds really shouldn't be having double mastectomies, don't you think? That's too permanent of a decision to make at that age." You would get 90% agreement.

But Twitter is the reason that no Democrats anywhere can express the same thought, nor can professors, board members at fortune 500 companies, authors, etc. Twitter is what convinces Democrats that things like college loan forgiveness is wildly popular, that makes Lynn Manuel Miranda apologize that "In The Heights" is racist, that Spike Lee supports white supremacy, etc. It's become the enforcement arm for the extreme.

If Elon Musk somehow runs Twitter into the ground, or the most liberal 20% quit in defiance, or anything else of that nature, it would largely disarm the worst elements afflicting the Democratic party.
 
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kc78

HR All-American
Nov 25, 2002
2,908
7,693
113
44
Pensacola, FL
That's a very fair point.

But it is undeniable that Clinton pulled the Democrats to the center after getting their dicks absolutely stomped for three presidential elections in a row. The examples are numerous, from welfare reform, to crime, to free trade, capital punishment, on and on and on. Clinton shed the vast majority of the Democrats most "unpopular with the masses" positions, and did it easily with barely a pushback.
They just need to focus on one process at a time. They used to do this well. They slow walked items and we had a very deliberate move to the left. However after Obama won they suddenly felt they needed to make a massive left turn. Now, aside from some minor health care reform, they really didn't move to the left, but they talked it a lot more. The embrace of the progressive wing has allowed them to be branded as far left even when most of their policy that they work on isn't even truly left wing.
 
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Feb 9, 2013
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We have a Senate race between Michael Bennet (D) and a GOP candidate named Joe O’Dea.

I think Bennet has always kinda sucked, not so much because of anything he’s done but because he’s just…there. Just cashing a check in his cushy Senate job. I hate rewarding that.

On the other hand there’s O’Dea, a mixed-bag Republican - typical GOP on taxes, crime and the border, but is pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, believes in climate change, and believes Biden win the election in 2020 and that Trump needs to go away and shouldn’t run in 2024. Trump hates O’Dea.

We say we want more moderate, less MAGA GOP candidates and O’Dea seems to be just that. But I know (believe?) that he’ll just be a vote for McConnell if elected. So I can’t
risk a vote for him.

But if O’Dea loses, I suspect the lesson the GOP will walk with is we can’t win with moderates/RINOs and they’ll go further MAGA in 2024. Unfortunately.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
11,045
113
They just need to focus on one process at a time. They used to do this well. They slow walked items and we had a very deliberate move to the left. However after Obama won they suddenly felt they needed to make a massive left turn. Now, aside from some minor health care reform, they really didn't move to the left, but they talked it a lot more. The embrace of the progressive wing has allowed them to be branded as far left even when most of their policy that they work on isn't even truly left wing.

Pretty much. Double whammy of:

- Believing that Obama victory was the fulfillment of "demographics as destiny", rather than the result of an excellent and very talented and charismatic candidate. Make no mistake, there were elements of the party that didn't believe a Republican could win a presidential election again.

- And then having an abhorrent foil in Trump, which it is almost impossible to look unhinged next to

Those things helped push an outsized amount of clout to some really loud and bad voices for the Democrats, and they're having a really hard time wrestling it back. I think some thought they had when Biden won the nomination, but that didn't work.
 
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Hoosierhawkeye

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Sep 16, 2008
48,168
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Well, here's the ironic thing. If Elon Musk destroys Twitter, or even just de-liberalizes it by 30-40%, that could be the best gift the Democratic party ever had.

Twitter in total is extremely far left. The mapping of all its political posts would put it at the most liberal state in the union (Hawaii I think?). But more so than that, a relatively small number of posters account for like 80% of the politics on Twitter, and they map to the most liberal district in the country.

Twitter is the germination point for SO much of what dogs people trying to position the Democrats more to the middle. Twitter is the source of the cancellation brigades, the purging of newsrooms and companies of anyone who dare question the furthest left orthodoxy. Tik Tok is probably equally liberal, but ultimately is not the home of journalism, news, politicians, companies, etc. Twitter crazies have a WAY outsized effect pushing the most extreme aspects of progressive causes into the "real world".

Put it this way...fill a bar with average democratic voters in any town outside Seattle, Portland or San Francisco. Walk in and say "You know what...13 year olds really shouldn't be having double mastectomies, don't you think? That's too permanent of a decision to make at that age." You would get 90% agreement.

But Twitter is the reason that no Democrats anywhere can express the same thought, nor can professors, board members at fortune 500 companies, authors, etc. Twitter is what convinces Democrats that things like college loan forgiveness is wildly popular, that makes Lynn Manuel Miranda apologize that "In The Heights" is racist, that Spike Lee supports white supremacy, etc. It's become the enforcement arm for the extreme.

If Elon Musk somehow runs Twitter into the ground, or the most liberal 20% quit in defiance, or anything else of that nature, it would largely disarm the worst elements afflicting the Democratic party.

The problem that I see is that the media especially the right wing media conflates twitter leftists with actual policy.

It's not like the Dems have enacted a policy that specifically makes it legal for a child to go get a sex change operation.

Don't get me wrong they arn't going to vote to make it illegal either because they don't want to tick off their base. But I'm not sure how much the Dems actual extreme views get translated into policy.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
11,045
113
Interesting segment on 60 minutes last night that I just happened to catch. They said 7% of the extreme right and left drive the narrative. The middle 86% are either scared to speak up and be demonized by their own side or too apathetic to get involved.

We watched it as well. Very well done. Social media is what has given those 7% on each side the power to intimidate the others.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

HR Legend
Sep 16, 2008
48,168
40,920
113
40
Interesting segment on 60 minutes last night that I just happened to catch. They said 7% of the extreme right and left drive the narrative. The middle 86% are either scared to speak up and be demonized by their own side or too apathetic to get involved.

I'm not scared to get demonized by my own side because I don't really have one.

But at the same time I am somewhat scared of friends and family refusing to speak to me because I expressed the wrong opinion. Which is one of the reasons I kind of try to avoid political debates on FB where my friends and family can see that stuff.

Another reason is people are crazy and you never know when someone on FB is going to target you or your family for violence because of your wrong opinions.

A big thing that is helping the extremists is the less extreme people don't want to lose friends and family over politics and the extremists think that having dinner with someone who disagrees with them would be the same as having dinner with Hitler.
 

BelemNole

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
34,027
71,559
113
Well, here's the ironic thing. If Elon Musk destroys Twitter, or even just de-liberalizes it by 30-40%, that could be the best gift the Democratic party ever had.

Twitter in total is extremely far left. The mapping of all its political posts would put it at the most liberal state in the union (Hawaii I think?). But more so than that, a relatively small number of posters account for like 80% of the politics on Twitter, and they map to the most liberal district in the country.

Twitter is the germination point for SO much of what dogs people trying to position the Democrats more to the middle. Twitter is the source of the cancellation brigades, the purging of newsrooms and companies of anyone who dare question the furthest left orthodoxy. Tik Tok is probably equally liberal, but ultimately is not the home of journalism, news, politicians, companies, etc. Twitter crazies have a WAY outsized effect pushing the most extreme aspects of progressive causes into the "real world".

Put it this way...fill a bar with average democratic voters in any town outside Seattle, Portland or San Francisco. Walk in and say "You know what...13 year olds really shouldn't be having double mastectomies, don't you think? That's too permanent of a decision to make at that age." You would get 90% agreement.

But Twitter is the reason that no Democrats anywhere can express the same thought, nor can professors, board members at fortune 500 companies, authors, etc. Twitter is what convinces Democrats that things like college loan forgiveness is wildly popular, that makes Lynn Manuel Miranda apologize that "In The Heights" is racist, that Spike Lee supports white supremacy, etc. It's become the enforcement arm for the extreme.

If Elon Musk somehow runs Twitter into the ground, or the most liberal 20% quit in defiance, or anything else of that nature, it would largely disarm the worst elements afflicting the Democratic party.

Here's the ironic thing - democrats aren't promoting surgery in teens. That's just more right wing talking points you feast on and believe we all push. You probably think that there are kids out there peeing in litter boxes because they identify as cats too.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
11,045
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The problem that I see is that the media especially the right wing media conflates twitter leftists with actual policy.

It's not like the Dems have enacted a policy that specifically makes it legal for a child to go get a sex change operation.

Don't get me wrong they arn't going to vote to make it illegal either because they don't want to tick off their base. But I'm not sure how much the Dems actual extreme views get translated into policy.

When no prominent Democrat will disavow sex change operations for children, something that at least 90% of the population would oppose, doesn't that mean there's something freaking bananas there?

That is where social media, and Twitter in particular, is having crazy handcuffs on Democrats. I by NO means think that the majority of Democrats think children should be allowed to get sex change operations, that elementary school children should be getting lessons on gender identity, or that America is a fundamentally racist country founded on racism. I know that's not what the average Democrat believes.

However, a Republican has to assume, until proven otherwise, that the full on silence means that elected democrats, and prominent progressives in the media, have been captured by this extreme.

I mean, I can find dozens and dozens of Republicans that acknowledge that Joe Biden defeated Donald Trump for president. Even a disaster like Herschel Walker himself acknowledged it in the debate. That there are still plenty that haven't is to the Republicans' shame.

So when will we see cracks on the Democratic side on "gender affirming care", 1619 Project, etc? They've been getting some push back finally from within the party on the border, which is a good sign.

I mean, I get that you don't think those matter, but if they don't matter it should be so easy to shrug them off.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
11,045
113
Here's the ironic thing - democrats aren't promoting surgery in teens. That's just more right wing talking points you feast on and believe we all push. You probably think that there are kids out there peeing in litter boxes because they identify as cats too.

Man, it would make it so easy then if Democrats would just stand up and say "Heck no, a 13 year old shouldn't get a mastectomy or puberty blockers. That idea is nuts."

It's the easiest thing in the world to solve. But Democrats on this board even struggle to say that.
 

BelemNole

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
34,027
71,559
113
Man, it would make it so easy then if Democrats would just stand up and say "Heck no, a 13 year old shouldn't get a mastectomy or puberty blockers. That idea is nuts."

It's the easiest thing in the world to solve. But Democrats on this board even struggle to say that.
lol, see how you've pivoted when called out?
First it was those crazy dems are for double mastectomies!!!
Then when called out you slip in puberty blockers as if they are equivalent. That's how your side works. Next you'll probably call me a groomer.
 

ThorneStockton

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2009
25,124
36,326
113
The problem that I see is that the media especially the right wing media conflates twitter leftists with actual policy.

It's not like the Dems have enacted a policy that specifically makes it legal for a child to go get a sex change operation.

Don't get me wrong they arn't going to vote to make it illegal either because they don't want to tick off their base. But I'm not sure how much the Dems actual extreme views get translated into policy.

Not even policy, but even elected officials/candidates or party leadership.

No doubt there are left/liberal/Dem users on twitter who come off as batshit crazy, there's some posters here that fit that, I'm sure you can find them on DemocratUnderground or reddit and elsewhere. I'm sure to people locked into the conservative media ecosystem, those people ARE the Democrats. Radical communists, hate America, want us to be Venezuela, grooming our kids, etc. etc.

Of course that's always been a technique, use the most extreme part of the opposing team and label the whole accordingly. Democrats have been running on Trump and the dangers of MAGA and the destruction of Democracy, etc. A reasonable person knows that not all Republicans are that twisted.

But when you look at the reality of the parties and who they are putting up as candidates and who is getting elected, the crazy concentration is lopsided. There's a handful of Dems that are "out there" and punch above their weight in terms of attention (AOC/squad) but not too much that's truly crazy.

Then flip over to the Rs with Trump, and everything that has come with him regarding Q, MTG, Boebert, Jim Jordan, Gaetz, and on and on. The 2020 election was stolen is practically a Republican purity test for those running. Some ~2/3rd of R's believe it was stolen, should be it shocking that the candidates reflect the base?

TLRD: R crazies are winning primaries and elections, D crazies dominate twitter?
 

tarheelbybirth

HR King
Apr 17, 2003
68,825
53,911
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That's a very fair point.

But it is undeniable that Clinton pulled the Democrats to the center after getting their dicks absolutely stomped for three presidential elections in a row. The examples are numerous, from welfare reform, to crime, to free trade, capital punishment, on and on and on. Clinton shed the vast majority of the Democrats most "unpopular with the masses" positions, and did it easily with barely a pushback.
If he pulled the Dems to the center it never…ever…produced results with voters. Given the opportunity during relatively good times to continue with Clinton minus the charisma, voters said, “Nah, let’s go with that doofus from Texas”.

The idea that there’s some middle-of-the-road politician out there who could unite the country is hogwash. Why? Because the American people are f’n idiots. That’s how you get a reprehensible human being like Trump in the WH. And even after he spent four years demonstrating that he was far more disgusting and evil than anyone had suspected, he still got 74 million people to vote for him. Over an absolute CENTRIST like Biden. No matter how flawed Biden is, he is still so much better than Trump that they shouldn’t even exist in the same reality. Maybe they don’t.

And American voters will probably demonstrate again tomorrow just how idiotic they are when they hand state and federal control to a party that is a demonstrated threat to democracy. Don’t “both sides” that.
 
Feb 9, 2013
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I mean, I can find dozens and dozens of Republicans that acknowledge that Joe Biden defeated Donald Trump for president. Even a disaster like Herschel Walker himself acknowledged it in the debate. That there are still plenty that haven't is to the Republicans' shame.

So when will we see cracks on the Democratic side on "gender affirming care", 1619 Project, etc? They've been getting some push back finally from within the party on the border, which is a good sign.

I mean, I get that you don't think those matter, but if they don't matter it should be so easy to shrug them off.
There is no equivalency between election denials and 1/6 and gender-affirming care. They’re not even close. Yes, those issues (and stuff like CRT) matter to some voters because they’ve been fed a steady diet of this garbage on FOX and RW media for a couple years now, but they should be way down on the list of voter concerns, if at all.

It’s just hard to take a party seriously when they talk ad nauseam about CRT and child sex changes but won’t even talk about gun control or blow off Jan 6 and election deniers as if those are Lib fantasies.
 

Rudolph

HR Legend
Oct 18, 2001
33,747
56,030
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If he pulled the Dems to the center it never…ever…produced results with voters. Given the opportunity during relatively good times to continue with Clinton minus the charisma, voters said, “Nah, let’s go with that doofus from Texas”.

The idea that there’s some middle-of-the-road politician out there who could unite the country is hogwash. Why? Because the American people are f’n idiots. That’s how you get a reprehensible human being like Trump in the WH. And even after he spent four years demonstrating that he was far more disgusting and evil than anyone had suspected, he still got 74 million people to vote for him. Over an absolute CENTRIST like Biden. No matter how flawed Biden is, he is still so much better than Trump that they shouldn’t even exist in the same reality. Maybe they don’t.

And American voters will probably demonstrate again tomorrow just how idiotic they are when they hand state and federal control to a party that is a demonstrated threat to democracy. Don’t “both sides” that.
Given the tenor of ads and debates and such, the slide is simply ramping up. America is in such bigger trouble than people realize.
 

DooBi

HR Heisman
Sep 18, 2006
7,588
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Man, it would make it so easy then if Democrats would just stand up and say "Heck no, a 13 year old shouldn't get a mastectomy or puberty blockers. That idea is nuts."

It's the easiest thing in the world to solve. But Democrats on this board even struggle to say that.
Not much different than Republicans standing up and saying the election wasn't stolen. A lot of our problems would be solved with civil conversations. That doesn't happen and never will with social media.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
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Not much different than Republicans standing up and saying the election wasn't stolen. A lot of our problems would be solved with civil conversations. That doesn't happen and never will with social media.

But I can point to plenty of Republicans who have said that. Should be all, but there are plenty.

Where are the Democrats breaking on gender theory or legal abortion through nine months?
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,222
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lol, see how you've pivoted when called out?
First it was those crazy dems are for double mastectomies!!!
Then when called out you slip in puberty blockers as if they are equivalent. That's how your side works. Next you'll probably call me a groomer.

So should mastectomies for minors who are trans be legal?
 
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ThorneStockton

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2009
25,124
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But I can point to plenty of Republicans who have said that. Should be all, but there are plenty.

Where are the Democrats breaking on gender theory or legal abortion through nine months?

You can point to those Republicans who acknowledge reality, but you'll be pointing at a group of Republicans like Liz Cheney who were pushed out via primaries or retired to avoid being flogged by the MAGA crazies. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the party.
 

tarheelbybirth

HR King
Apr 17, 2003
68,825
53,911
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So when will we see cracks on the Democratic side on "gender affirming care"
Shouldn’t you see cracks in what health care professionals recommend first? Providing appropriate care to children suffering from gender identification issues SAVES LIVES. That’s just fact. Advocating for accepted and recommended medical care really shouldn’t be demonized, yet here you are.
 

Nole Lou

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ThorneStockton

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No, he is not an example of who I am thinking of, he is what I would consider an exception, but I do think that is also illustrative of what has happened to the Republicans.

Just a handful of years ago, McConnell would be public enemy number one for a lot of Democrats. Now, since he's merely willing to acknowledge reality with respect to an election (what a high bar!) he's arguably one of the more admirable and respectable Republican politicians left. Of course it probably helped that he won a 6 year term in 2020 (fair or stolen?! people are saying it!) so he has a bit of latitude, but I can also admire his comments regarding the obvious "candidate quality".

I was thinking about people like these: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/13/cheney-10-house-republicans-trump-impeachment-00050991

Then just look around at the races that will be decided tomorrow and the candidates views regarding the stolen election.

Would Herschel Walker sniff the Senate if he was honest about the 2020 election?

Elsewhere in Georgia, Marjorie Taylor Greene is likely looking at leadership position precisely because of her craziness, because she's in a party that currently values crazy over reality, but at least there's Mitch to point to.
 

kc78

HR All-American
Nov 25, 2002
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I'm not scared to get demonized by my own side because I don't really have one.

But at the same time I am somewhat scared of friends and family refusing to speak to me because I expressed the wrong opinion. Which is one of the reasons I kind of try to avoid political debates on FB where my friends and family can see that stuff.

Another reason is people are crazy and you never know when someone on FB is going to target you or your family for violence because of your wrong opinions.

A big thing that is helping the extremists is the less extreme people don't want to lose friends and family over politics and the extremists think that having dinner with someone who disagrees with them would be the same as having dinner with Hitler.
I had a double whammy of shifting political and religious beliefs at about the same time. I lost almost all my friends and much of my family became hostile at times. As long as I remain quiet and don't talk about anything I believe and stay quiet when they go off on rants it's fine... But I've had to block a few relatives which was sad.
 

FAUlty Gator

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Too bad neither are showing the slightest inclination in that direction. Massive self-own by both parties.

Must read here:

Overcoming the Democratic Party brand

Cliff notes...no matter how much the Democrats insist on this board that the Democrats are totally mainstream, they aren't convincing the public. Republicans are DEFINITELY considered extreme...but the Democrats equally so. And in fact since most people shade themselves center-right, they rate themselves further from the Democrats than the Republicans.

(Here's where we get a string of progressives insisting that somehow everyone is merely FOOLED into thinking the Democrats are extreme, despite progressives having captured every university, every major media outlet outside of Fox News, etc)

Which party blinks first? Do either?

I go back and forth on that. Sometimes I think the Democrats could shift so much damn easier, they will be the ones. I already saw it in my lifetime with Bill Clinton...the game plan is right there. They don't have a particular individual to overcome like the Republicans have.

On the flip side, maybe that makes it more difficult? The Democrats have been hijacked by more of a set of ideas than a person that they can theoretically just move beyond. They've already turned over their newsrooms, universities, foundations, campaign apparatus, etc to the shrill woke true believers, is that actually harder to dismantle than the Republicans band of idiots that have abandoned the vast majority of their principles?

My gut feeling is still that Democrats can still make the move center a little more smoothly should they choose to, because they don't actually have a single individual that can cause chaos. They just need the right person...but I'm not sure who that is.
The problem is, the people “in the middle” have lives and families to care for and don’t have time to live on Twitter and going to rallies and arguing about mundane shit every waking moment of the day. The crazy fringe people do that and those are the folks most of the politicians are in constant contact with. So they “play to the rooms” they’re in.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
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No, he is not an example of who I am thinking of, he is what I would consider an exception, but I do think that is also illustrative of what has happened to the Republicans.

Just a handful of years ago, McConnell would be public enemy number one for a lot of Democrats. Now, since he's merely willing to acknowledge reality with respect to an election (what a high bar!) he's arguably one of the more admirable and respectable Republican politicians left. Of course it probably helped that he won a 6 year term in 2020 (fair or stolen?! people are saying it!) so he has a bit of latitude, but I can also admire his comments regarding the obvious "candidate quality".

I was thinking about people like these: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/13/cheney-10-house-republicans-trump-impeachment-00050991

Then just look around at the races that will be decided tomorrow and the candidates views regarding the stolen election.

Would Herschel Walker sniff the Senate if he was honest about the 2020 election?

Elsewhere in Georgia, Marjorie Taylor Greene is likely looking at leadership position precisely because of her craziness, because she's in a party that currently values crazy over reality, but at least there's Mitch to point to.

There are some embarrassing election deniers among Republicans and Republican candidates. One is too many, and unfortunately there are plenty more than one. But you are seeing more than there are. Walker doesn't deny the election...