For all posters (hereby remaining unnamed) that rip on Ellingson...
- Thread starter hackeysack
- Start date
Are you claiming that I made a personal derogatory comment to you? If that is what you meant, please point out the comment.
I suggested you read the post out of context and suggested you re-read it to gain clarification.
I'm stooping low? You just insulted me saying you are not surprised I took something out of context. Did you not notice that I removed the poster's handle from the title almost an hour ago? Again, insulting me personally is far worse than using his handle in a title indicating that he rips on Ellingson, which he readily admits he's been doing for years.
Please read my posts entirely. I never once insulted you. I even suggested that you re-read my post to gain further clarification of the context of it. It was not surprising that you took my post out of context because it is an easy thing to do (for anyone) which is I then said please re-read the post.
If you are going to continue to accuse me of things that are not true and continue calling out poster, then I am done with you.
Actually, we know very little about Brady. His role is pretty limited this year but he's done nothing really bad nor good.
As for his minutes, whose minutes should he take, AC, Mike or Peter? Hawks go big when any one of those three are out. The opponent's have obviously scouted Brady because he's always tightly guarded, which helps the other guys on the floor.
On the other hand, if I'm Andrew I'd be thinking I can beat this guy for PT next year if not later this year. Brady hasn't shown anything that looks like a place holder for now. There's a credible argument both ways.
I cannot imagine anyone is cheering any Hawk to fail. I hope Brady becomes a Ben Brust like player because that means we've got a hell of a player on the roster. Its pretty hard to see that a clear answer is available from the limited sample of Brady's play thus far available.
As for his minutes, whose minutes should he take, AC, Mike or Peter? Hawks go big when any one of those three are out. The opponent's have obviously scouted Brady because he's always tightly guarded, which helps the other guys on the floor.
On the other hand, if I'm Andrew I'd be thinking I can beat this guy for PT next year if not later this year. Brady hasn't shown anything that looks like a place holder for now. There's a credible argument both ways.
I cannot imagine anyone is cheering any Hawk to fail. I hope Brady becomes a Ben Brust like player because that means we've got a hell of a player on the roster. Its pretty hard to see that a clear answer is available from the limited sample of Brady's play thus far available.
Matt Costello from MSU disagrees with you about Jok's finishing capabilities. That little body move into Costello then to the left hand was freaking money. Costello's a pretty damn good defender and is a 6'9" physical power forward type, and he got taken to the cleaners by Jok...and it was a very skillful finish. I'm just saying...film doesn't lie.
I stand by it. It is not okay for someone to call out another poster. Many others agree. I understand why you and others don't like the negativity Dan. However, calling out other posters seriously needs to end.
Then I am surprised that the OP took my long post out of context (I should have known it would happen given how I worded it). The OP took it as me comparing Aaron White's draft situation to Brady's division one caliber situation. Again, I am not the one saying Brady is not capable of playing at this level. However, I am going to stand up against those calling others out and now falsely accusing me of insulting them and then saying what I did was worse than calling another poster out.
So yes, I am serious.
FWIW, I think that Ellingson has showed that he has the potential to be a contributor to the team within the next couple of years. I realize that his scoring outburst earlier in the season was against a pretty mediocre opponent, but it isn't a stretch to think that he can begin to have more success against bigger programs with more confidence.
You don't often notice when Ellingson is in the game, but when you are a redshirt freshman, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. He keeps the offense moving and doesn't take many shots. I think Baer's success has heightened expectations a lot for freshmen/redshirt freshmen, when he is a bit of an anomaly.
If Fran didn't see any hope for Brady, then he wouldn't play, and wouldn't have been one of the first guys off the bench to start the year. Fran has already shown that he can be honest with his players (I don't know what was said behind closed doors) with guys like Kyle Meyer, Darius Stokes, and Pat Ingram, who knew they weren't going to get much PT and left on good terms. Again, if Brady wasn't good enough, he wouldn't play.
You don't often notice when Ellingson is in the game, but when you are a redshirt freshman, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. He keeps the offense moving and doesn't take many shots. I think Baer's success has heightened expectations a lot for freshmen/redshirt freshmen, when he is a bit of an anomaly.
If Fran didn't see any hope for Brady, then he wouldn't play, and wouldn't have been one of the first guys off the bench to start the year. Fran has already shown that he can be honest with his players (I don't know what was said behind closed doors) with guys like Kyle Meyer, Darius Stokes, and Pat Ingram, who knew they weren't going to get much PT and left on good terms. Again, if Brady wasn't good enough, he wouldn't play.
Does that mean I can get back to liking any post without being call out for which ones I do?
Let's be honest, playing time will be even more of a premium for him once Jordan (next year) and Connor ('17) both get on campus. Don't forget we have Fleming chomping at the bit to get his share of glory. This was Ellingson's year to make his bones and solidify some time in the rotation. Doesn't appear he was ready to grab the bull by the horns and he's going to be fighting an up hill battle now Odds are he ends up transferring out. Sorry, nothing personal, it's science.
you could be right... IMO he made some bones by beating out Fleming & Williams in non-conference. Not unusual for some redshirt freshman to struggle with their first go around in the B1G. Premature to suggest odds are he ends transfers but your guess may be right. My opinion is he has taken a step back but certainly not off the cliff.
I think the thing that separates Jok from Ellingson is height and quickness of release. The critical 3 that Jok hit against Michigan was basically a contested shot, but because of the two factors that I just mentioned, Jok got a clean enough look and drained it. No way that Ellingson could get that shot off, and I'm not sure he will ever be able to do that.
I think Ogelsby is a better comparison for Ellingson. It took a lot of work to get Ogeslby free for a 3-point shot. At the time, we were such a poor three point shooting team that we ran a lot of screens to get him free. But now we have several players that can get a decent look pretty easily: Jok, Uthoff, Uhl, and Baer. In the end, the problem most posters had with Ogeslby is that he didn't make enough shots. It's too early to draw such conclusions with Ellingson. If he can hit near a 40% clip, then he will be a valuable asset.
It should be a good competition between Moss, Ellingson, and Bohannon for minutes at the 2 next year.
I think Ogelsby is a better comparison for Ellingson. It took a lot of work to get Ogeslby free for a 3-point shot. At the time, we were such a poor three point shooting team that we ran a lot of screens to get him free. But now we have several players that can get a decent look pretty easily: Jok, Uthoff, Uhl, and Baer. In the end, the problem most posters had with Ogeslby is that he didn't make enough shots. It's too early to draw such conclusions with Ellingson. If he can hit near a 40% clip, then he will be a valuable asset.
It should be a good competition between Moss, Ellingson, and Bohannon for minutes at the 2 next year.
That wasn't me that "called" you out on liking posts. I really don't care which posts you like. I think you have me confused with Hansen.
I think it only appears he has taken a step back because the competition is a bit higher. He is still shooting over 50% from the field and is only turning the ball over an average of 0.5 a game. I think if he could knock down a couple threes here, it could really boost his confidence. Sometimes, it's really just a confidence issue.
I find it interesting that posters are offended by the OP's thread title but stand by their personalized uncalled for attacks on an Iowa player. Just amazing! You would not say it to his face you should not say it here.
I thought he played pretty well at the beginning of the year but looks like he is struggling in B1G play. Let's face it we have played some pretty good competition so that's understandable for a freshman/RS freshman.
What concerns me most about him is lateral quickness and foot speed. Watch Jok run sideline to sideline working off of screens to get open, then watch Brady. Night and day difference. Brady will have to work very hard on his off-the-ball game to get open at this level of play.
Bottom line is I trust Fran on players after what I have seen over 6 years. Lots of time for Brady to develop.
What concerns me most about him is lateral quickness and foot speed. Watch Jok run sideline to sideline working off of screens to get open, then watch Brady. Night and day difference. Brady will have to work very hard on his off-the-ball game to get open at this level of play.
Bottom line is I trust Fran on players after what I have seen over 6 years. Lots of time for Brady to develop.
Good fair post but some on here would say he sucks and has D III lateral quickness and can't understand Fran's reasoning for playing a player with such crapy skills! Funny how that works.
Just because you do not agree with someone's assessment of a player's skills does not make it a personal attack.
Specifically calling out another poster is against the rules. I don't care what the circumstances are. It is completely unacceptable to do this. This happened a few days ago and it needs to stop.
Very true but it is also against attacking a player! I guess you want the wriggle room to be subjective on what is or is not attacking. Well if you do not have the character to realize what is over the line or not is not my problem. Or shall I say i will be just as subjective and call out the stupid attacks on players.
I agree that attacking a player is unacceptable. I do not think that assessing a player's skills (Ellingson in this case) and making an individual determination (such as Hansen did) that the player does not have the skills to be a D1 player and instead has D3 skills, as a personal attack.
Again, I think Ellingson has a place on this team. However, there were several players that played under Lickliter that I thought were D3 players and I don't believe that is a personal attack. It is a mere assessment of one's skills in basketball. Scouts do it all the time. You may not agree with that assessment and that is everyone's right. However an assessment is not a personal attack
You are right in that an attack can be gray line. If you feel this was an attack that's your opinion. However, it doesn't help anyone for the OP to specifically call someone out regarding their assessment of a player.
