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Fran vs Tom Davis

Sep 3, 2009
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We are now nearing the end of Year 13 of Fran McCaffery, meaning he has reached the Tom Davis retirement year. As many remember, the Iowa fan base was growing fatigued with the lack of winning under Davis, but a quick comparison shows that Davis has actually had more success than Fran over his 13 year stint.

Big Ten Record:
Davis: 125-105 (54%)
McCaffery: 126-118 (52%)

Overall Record:
Davis: 269-140 (66%)
McCaffery: 257-173 (60%)

NCAA Appearances:
Davis: 9
McCaffery: 8 (Counting 2020 and 2023) (Also counting First Four appearance in 2014)

Tournament Wins:
Davis: 13
McCaffery: 5 (Counting 1 for 2020) (2023 TBD)

You can argue that Davis started in a much better spot, and his most successful season was his first season with players he didn't recruit. If you remove the first 2 years of each coaching stint, the numbers are a little closer. But it does seem like Fran doesn't really have much job pressure right now, even though the team has largely failed to deliver, especially in March.

Looking ahead, we are clearly in a rebuilding mode, as Murray is likely gone to the draft and Connor and Rebraca are graduating. I don't expect this team to be a tournament team next year.

So how long of a leash does Fran have? This year would be the 5th straight year of making the tournament (counting 2020), which is impressive and hasn't been done since 1979-1983. But that streak has so far only translated into 2 tournament wins.
 
We are now nearing the end of Year 13 of Fran McCaffery, meaning he has reached the Tom Davis retirement year. As many remember, the Iowa fan base was growing fatigued with the lack of winning under Davis, but a quick comparison shows that Davis has actually had more success than Fran over his 13 year stint.

Big Ten Record:
Davis: 125-105 (54%)
McCaffery: 126-118 (52%)

Overall Record:
Davis: 269-140 (66%)
McCaffery: 257-173 (60%)

NCAA Appearances:
Davis: 9
McCaffery: 8 (Counting 2020 and 2023) (Also counting First Four appearance in 2014)

Tournament Wins:
Davis: 13
McCaffery: 5 (Counting 1 for 2020) (2023 TBD)

You can argue that Davis started in a much better spot, and his most successful season was his first season with players he didn't recruit. If you remove the first 2 years of each coaching stint, the numbers are a little closer. But it does seem like Fran doesn't really have much job pressure right now, even though the team has largely failed to deliver, especially in March.

Looking ahead, we are clearly in a rebuilding mode, as Murray is likely gone to the draft and Connor and Rebraca are graduating. I don't expect this team to be a tournament team next year.

So how long of a leash does Fran have? This year would be the 5th straight year of making the tournament (counting 2020), which is impressive and hasn't been done since 1979-1983. But that streak has so far only translated into 2 tournament wins.
Tournament wins obviously the huge difference. And yes, Dr Tom certainly inherited the most talented team in 40 years. However, he had to implement his style of play and get the guys to buy into it, which he certainly he did. And of course you could argue he maybe should have had 3 more wins plus an NCAA championship if he didn't choke away the UNLV game. I also feel if not for the loss of Street that's a possible elite 8 team and he was only a Sophomore, so who knows how many games we win in the tournament if he plays his additional 2 and a half years. Now you could also argue that Fran has had the most talent he will ever have, as he's had Cook, Weiskamp, Garza plus all NBA rookie Keegan and probably 1st rounder Kris. And while he did have some success w/that talent it did not translate at all to the tournament.
 
We are now nearing the end of Year 13 of Fran McCaffery, meaning he has reached the Tom Davis retirement year. As many remember, the Iowa fan base was growing fatigued with the lack of winning under Davis, but a quick comparison shows that Davis has actually had more success than Fran over his 13 year stint.

Big Ten Record:
Davis: 125-105 (54%)
McCaffery: 126-118 (52%)

Overall Record:
Davis: 269-140 (66%)
McCaffery: 257-173 (60%)

NCAA Appearances:
Davis: 9
McCaffery: 8 (Counting 2020 and 2023) (Also counting First Four appearance in 2014)

Tournament Wins:
Davis: 13
McCaffery: 5 (Counting 1 for 2020) (2023 TBD)

You can argue that Davis started in a much better spot, and his most successful season was his first season with players he didn't recruit. If you remove the first 2 years of each coaching stint, the numbers are a little closer. But it does seem like Fran doesn't really have much job pressure right now, even though the team has largely failed to deliver, especially in March.

Looking ahead, we are clearly in a rebuilding mode, as Murray is likely gone to the draft and Connor and Rebraca are graduating. I don't expect this team to be a tournament team next year.

So how long of a leash does Fran have? This year would be the 5th straight year of making the tournament (counting 2020), which is impressive and hasn't been done since 1979-1983. But that streak has so far only translated into 2 tournament wins.
The differences are the administration in charge at the U of I then and now, the cupboard wasn't as bare in 1999-2000 as it's gonna be after this season, and one coach was liked by many outside the administration while the other continues to rub more and more people the wrong way while still continuing to put out inconsistent results in a "winning cures all" society...........
 
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Tournament wins obviously the huge difference. And yes, Dr Tom certainly inherited the most talented team in 40 years. However, he had to implement his style of play and get the guys to buy into it, which he certainly he did. And of course you could argue he maybe should have had 3 more wins plus an NCAA championship if he didn't choke away the UNLV game. I also feel if not for the loss of Street that's a possible elite 8 team and he was only a Sophomore, so who knows how many games we win in the tournament if he plays his additional 2 and a half years. Now you could also argue that Fran has had the most talent he will ever have, as he's had Cook, Weiskamp, Garza plus all NBA rookie Keegan and probably 1st rounder Kris. And while he did have some success w/that talent it did not translate at all to the tournament.
Dr Tom built multiple teams to go to the sweet sixteen plus iirc his teams were 10-0 or so in first round games, a great record.

Multiple years his teams lost the 2nd round game to the eventual champ. And his teams usually played very well in the tourney.
 
The differences are the administration in charge at the U of I then and now, the cupboard wasn't as bare in 1999-2000 as it's gonna be after this season,

I’ll disagree on the cupboard situation. Having incoming recruits alone instantly makes now better than an entire year without recruiting. Add in the portal now, versus how transfers worked in 1999 also makes it less of an issue.

Actual players on the roster, I’d also give the advantage to the the 2023 roster vs 1999 even assuming that Kris is going to the NBA. Dean Oliver may be the best name listed below, but 2023 is set up better as a whole and I don’t think it’s really that close.

1999:
Dean Oliver - Jr
Jacob Jaacks - Sr
Duez Henderson - So
Rod Thompson - So
Kyle Galloway (injury issues) - So
Ryan Luehrsmann - Sr

2023:
Tony Perkins
Ahron Ulis
Payton Sandfort
Patrick McCaffery
Dasonte Bowen
Josh Dix
Riley Mulvey
Josh Ogundele

Incoming:
Pryce Sandfort
Owen Freeman
Brock Harding
Ladji Dembele

Getting a couple of bigs out of the portal will be the key, IMO.
 
Dr Tom built multiple teams to go to the sweet sixteen plus iirc his teams were 10-0 or so in first round games, a great record.

Multiple years his teams lost the 2nd round game to the eventual champ. And his teams usually played very well in the tourney.

That is impressive, 10-0 for first round games in NINE tournament appearances. I doubt that will ever be surpassed.
 
Fran isn't going anywhere for quite awhile yet.

Do I dislike Fran? Hardly. He brought the Hawks back from the brink and gets them in the tournament more often than not, which is the minimum I expect.

Do I wish he would do better in the NCAA tournament? Yes!
Do I wish his teams would play defense? Yes!
Do I think he will elevate the program any higher? No.
Do I think he should be fired? No!
Will I be upset if he leaves or is let go? To be honest....no.
 
I'm too lazy to do it, but you probably need to toss out the first two years for both coaches to get a more valid comparison. I would guess, as mentioned, that Fran's lack of success in the dance will then be the only difference in Dr. Tom's favor. Fran finally had success in the BTT last year, but otherwise the team's record in post-season games sucks during his tenure.

I know no one wants to talk about it, but I think Fran would get a high mark on running a clean program with high quality individuals being recruited. I think Dr. Tom's mark on this aspect of the program would be quite a bit lower, especially if insiders told all that they know.
 
I’ll disagree on the cupboard situation. Having incoming recruits alone instantly makes now better than an entire year without recruiting. Add in the portal now, versus how transfers worked in 1999 also makes it less of an issue.

Actual players on the roster, I’d also give the advantage to the the 2023 roster vs 1999 even assuming that Kris is going to the NBA. Dean Oliver may be the best name listed below, but 2023 is set up better as a whole and I don’t think it’s really that close.

1999:
Dean Oliver - Jr
Jacob Jaacks - Sr
Duez Henderson - So
Rod Thompson - So
Kyle Galloway (injury issues) - So
Ryan Luehrsmann - Sr

2023:
Tony Perkins
Ahron Ulis
Payton Sandfort
Patrick McCaffery
Dasonte Bowen
Josh Dix
Riley Mulvey
Josh Ogundele

Incoming:
Pryce Sandfort
Owen Freeman
Brock Harding
Ladji Dembele

Getting a couple of bigs out of the portal will be the key, IMO.
Well keep in mind this is assuming Fran is gone, so you can probably take out Patrick, and Jack as well.
 
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Well keep in mind this is assuming Fran is gone, so you can probably take out Patrick, and Jack as well.
The question is, are Patrick and Jack actually elevating the program. I would say Connor is very efficient but doesn’t make a huge impact. Patrick is a real wildcard and very inconsistent, not sold on him yet. Hopefully the youngest will be the real deal.
 
The question is, are Patrick and Jack actually elevating the program. I would say Connor is very efficient but doesn’t make a huge impact. Patrick is a real wildcard and very inconsistent, not sold on him yet. Hopefully the youngest will be the real deal.
This idea that's it's just a given that all Fran's kids get scholarships and PT is freaking outrageous to me.

Why on earth should fans just accept that? It's crazy.
 
This idea that's it's just a given that all Fran's kids get scholarships and PT is freaking outrageous to me.

Why on earth should fans just accept that? It's crazy.
I’m Frans defense, all of his sons are highly rated recruits, Connor was a 3 star and #1 in the state and Patrick was a 4 star, Jack is currently a 4 star in 2025 and borderline top 50 player in the country, so Iowa would typically go for these guys anyway.
 
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The first few years of each coach's tenure obviously aren't comparable, but with their own players, Fran has pretty much been Tom Davis.

Both had uptempo teams that didn't really play much defense.

Both had teams normally in the upper division of the conference, but never seriously contend for the crown.

Both struggled to get out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament.

Yes, Davis got the Sweet 16 his final season, but he was basically a 2nd Round coach. Same for Fran.

Maybe we regretted letting Davis go, but that was mostly because Alford was pretty meh, and Lickliter was.. Lickliter.
 
One guy inherited 7 future NBA players, the other guy inherited lil' Lick...
Did you forget Gatens (alford recruit, legacy thank lute olson) and Marble (Lickliter recruit, legacy thank Raveling)?
Unfortunately Lil Lick didn't stick around for Fran, but I noticed he was re-incarnated as Lil' Hoilberg.


One difference between Davis and Fran eras is the Big10 used to be best basketball conference. Now it's a middle of the pack.. The Big10 Brand has been hurt by adding three historically bad programs in Nebraska, Penn State, Rutgers. but that has helped Fran's record.
 
While fans were certainly growing restless with the level of success our teams had under Tom Davis, I think the thing that really led to Davis getting pushed out was his recruiting. First, he went after too many guys with character issues, guys like Jeff Walker, Sam Okey, and Joey Range. Then, he had a habit of signing guys that were absolute head-scratchers, like Dale Reed, Antonio Ramos, and Marcelo Gomes.

While McCaffery has not moved the needle in terms of B1G championships or NCAA tourney success, he at least seems to be recruiting high-character players, who generally belong at this level.
 
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The teams under Davis and Fran are the ceiling of Iowa basketball. The only way you start winning more is to hire an up and coming coach with great recruiting connections.

He might come in and assemble a team that wins 25+ games and makes it past the Sweet 16. I also think he then bolts for a blue blood afterwards.

You are just as likely, probably more likely, to hire someone like Lickliter that ends up not winning or a guy like Alford who has character flaws.

Fran is doing fine. I want more post-season success but I understand it's often the luck of the draw. Last year's loss was really the only one in the tourney that I felt was bad under Fran. Richmond was not a good basketball team.
 
Fran isn't going anywhere for quite awhile yet.

Do I dislike Fran? Hardly. He brought the Hawks back from the brink and gets them in the tournament more often than not, which is the minimum I expect.

Do I wish he would do better in the NCAA tournament? Yes!
Do I wish his teams would play defense? Yes!
Do I think he will elevate the program any higher? No.
Do I think he should be fired? No!
Will I be upset if he leaves or is let go? To be honest....no.
Unfortunately, I pretty much have those same feelings. I really don’t care one way or the other about our basketball. For me, as well as much of our fan base, we have learned to accept mediocrity. It’s not that we want a mediocre program, but the reality is we really realize no matter how much we bitch and moan, nothing is going to change. It’s sad that Fran has taken this program as far as he can.
 
The only way you start winning more is to hire an up and coming coach with great recruiting connections.

He might come in and assemble a team that wins 25+ games and makes it past the Sweet 16. I also think he then bolts for a blue blood afterwards.

In the past I would totally agree.

With the new media $$, NIL and conference expansion I'm not so sure.

The right person may opt to stay here and compete and succeed. Build his own dynasty instead of having to maintain one ...along with all the undue "heat" from spoiled fans who expect 25 wins, a conference championship and final four run just about every year.
 
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In the past I would totally agree.

With the new media $$, NIL and conference expansion I'm not so sure.

The right person may opt to stay here and compete and succeed. Build his own dynasty instead of having to maintain one ...along with all the undue "heat" from spoiled fans who expect 25 wins, a conference championship and final four run just about every year.
I think our fans have as high or higher expectations as other schools compared with our history.

I think fans here expect a 22-23 win season and a Sweet Sixteen most years despite historically being nowhere near that good.

I'm not sure we have a big NIL advantage here compared with other basketball schools.
 
Did you forget Gatens (alford recruit, legacy thank lute olson) and Marble (Lickliter recruit, legacy thank Raveling)?
Unfortunately Lil Lick didn't stick around for Fran, but I noticed he was re-incarnated as Lil' Hoilberg.


One difference between Davis and Fran eras is the Big10 used to be best basketball conference. Now it's a middle of the pack.. The Big10 Brand has been hurt by adding three historically bad programs in Nebraska, Penn State, Rutgers. but that has helped Fran's record.

Its not middle of the pack. It is top 2-3 almost every year, including this one.
 
I think our fans have as high or higher expectations as other schools compared with our history.

I think fans here expect a 22-23 win season and a Sweet Sixteen most years despite historically being nowhere near that good.

I'm not sure we have a big NIL advantage here compared with other basketball schools.

I'm just saying it's not an automatic that a person will flee to a "blue blood" in this new era.

Also, if Iowa can find it's version of Matt Painter, someone with strong Hawkeye ties, all the better.

What former players are starting to make waves in the coaching ranks right now? Are there any?
 
I'm just saying it's not an automatic that a person will flee to a "blue blood" in this new era.

Also, if Iowa can find it's version of Matt Painter, someone with strong Hawkeye ties, all the better.

What former players are starting to make waves in the coaching ranks right now? Are there any?
I agree. Nothing is a foregone conclusion. I do think an ex-Hawk is our best chance to have someone succeed at a high level and stick around afterwards.

Gatens is obviously an Iowa guy on the staff. I'm not sure what kind of recruiting in-roads he has around thecountry. Perhaps if he had some assistants that were great recruiters he could succeed here.

Connor could be an assistant and then the head coach. It is the Iowa way after all. 😆
 
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Fran isn't going anywhere for quite awhile yet.

Do I dislike Fran? Hardly. He brought the Hawks back from the brink and gets them in the tournament more often than not, which is the minimum I expect.

Do I wish he would do better in the NCAA tournament? Yes!
Do I wish his teams would play defense? Yes!
Do I think he will elevate the program any higher? No.
Do I think he should be fired? No!
Will I be upset if he leaves or is let go? To be honest....no.
You have perfectly expressed my feelings and opinion.
 
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There's so much more parity in college ball today than back in the nineties. You'd get to the dance and the first game was usually a blow out by the power conferences. The big ten had 3 to 5 good teams and the bottom teams were not that good. More teams had 4 year players, which made the good teams really good. The bad teams couldn't rebuild in one year like they can these days, with the portal and the talent pool, that's out there because of strong AAU programs. With all that, the power conferences are not where all the talent is at.
Fran isn't as good at recruiting talent as Davis was. But he's better at getting the most out of his recruits. Davis probably would have no better success in the current tournament than Fran is having, I don't believe his big ten record, would be any better either.
To me they are much the same.
 
One difference between Davis and Fran eras is the Big10 used to be best basketball conference. Now it's a middle of the pack.. The Big10 Brand has been hurt by adding three historically bad programs in Nebraska, Penn State, Rutgers. but that has helped Fran's record.

The B1G also added Maryland. Penn State was here for over half of Dr Tom’s tenure, which he was 6-5 against from 1993-1999.

Wisconsin had two winning B1G seasons during Davis’ time at Iowa and Northwestern won 32 total B1G games in those 13 years or 2.46 Big Ten wins a season. For a frame of reference, “historically bad” Rutgers has won 32 B1G games in the last three years and Northwestern has won 32 in the last five.
 
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No comparison. Tom Davis was a gentleman, a genuinely humble person and a wonderful coach. His teams played with consistent fire and intensity. Definitely my all-time favorite Iowa coach. He had personality to burn and a ready smile for a player. I loved the way his teams played. Fran is a very average coach. He is whiney, set in his ways, and embarrasses his team with his ridiculous and juvenile behavior. The players loved Tom Davis. Some of Iowa's players love Fran. Some are just hanging in there, I believe.
 
No comparison. Tom Davis was a gentleman, a genuinely humble person and a wonderful coach. His teams played with consistent fire and intensity. Definitely my all-time favorite Iowa coach. He had personality to burn and a ready smile for a player. I loved the way his teams played. Fran is a very average coach. He is whiney, set in his ways, and embarrasses his team with his ridiculous and juvenile behavior. The players loved Tom Davis. Some of Iowa's players love Fran. Some are just hanging in there, I believe.
As a person I would totally agree with all of this. I liked Tom as a person and have always been a Hawk fan. He did have his shortcomings as a coach though. His half-court offense didn't compare with Frans. His full court press was good when it worked, but after so many years of watching teams get easy layups, I was ready for a change. I never called for it, but I was ready for it. I feel the same about Fran, I'm getting tired of his behavior as well. But he is a better than average coach, just not on the defesive side of things.
 
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I think our fans have as high or higher expectations as other schools compared with our history.

I think fans here expect a 22-23 win season and a Sweet Sixteen most years despite historically being nowhere near that good.

I'm not sure we have a big NIL advantage here compared with other basketball schools.
Theres only a few "basketball" schools.

We don't need to compete with them, we needed to beat out Texas Tech this year.

Iowa is going to be ahead of the curve now in NIL, thats why the football program is suddenly getting a bunch of transfers.

Other will catch up though.

Im hoping Fran is going to utilize whats at his disposal and not be a weirdo about paying new guys more than current players.
 
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I’ll disagree on the cupboard situation. Having incoming recruits alone instantly makes now better than an entire year without recruiting. Add in the portal now, versus how transfers worked in 1999 also makes it less of an issue.

Actual players on the roster, I’d also give the advantage to the the 2023 roster vs 1999 even assuming that Kris is going to the NBA. Dean Oliver may be the best name listed below, but 2023 is set up better as a whole and I don’t think it’s really that close.

1999:
Dean Oliver - Jr
Jacob Jaacks - Sr
Duez Henderson - So
Rod Thompson - So
Kyle Galloway (injury issues) - So
Ryan Luehrsmann - Sr

2023:
Tony Perkins
Ahron Ulis
Payton Sandfort
Patrick McCaffery
Dasonte Bowen
Josh Dix
Riley Mulvey
Josh Ogundele

Incoming:
Pryce Sandfort
Owen Freeman
Brock Harding
Ladji Dembele

Getting a couple of bigs out of the portal will be the key, IMO.
And every one of those players could EASILY enter the portal if Fran left. I highly doubt most would stay given the relationship to the coaches.
 
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That is impressive, 10-0 for first round games in NINE tournament appearances. I doubt that will ever be surpassed.
You did read that I wrote "iirc" and "10-0 or so" trying to remember somewhat off the top of my head.
 
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