Georgia is once again issuing confederate flag license plates
- Thread starter TJ8869
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That's how treason and civil war was handled 150 years ago and that's what they got into knowingly. It is not like it was standard operating procedure when you won a civil war to be really really nice to the losers. That almost never happened historically and our civil war is about the one and only instance where it did happen.
But I would like your take on the issue of contempt here because African Americans have a clear right to feel contempt for everything that the South did to them from 40 years ago to before the founding of the country. But that's not the contempt you talk about. You talk about contempt for losing a war that they started 150 years ago and getting a few cities and homes burned down 150 years ago.
No one around today was alive then and none of their parents where either. But there are plenty of Blacks who where there to watch friends and relatives be hung and killed and then in the face of mountains of evidence have all white juries pronounce not guilty with 15 min of deliberations which probably involved 5 min of actual deliberations and 10 minutes of bathroom break time.
Where did I ever say, or even remotely imply, that African-descent people DON'T have the right to contempt for the way they were treated? It was a disgrace, by our standards today, that they were ever put in chains to begin with!
"Getting a few cities and homes burned down..."??? I'm sorry, dude. I have no more to discuss with you. That shows just how little you really know about what was really experienced here. I'm not encouraging people to memorialize the destruction, but I do understand WHY THEY DO IT! I'm not enabling them, but I UNDERSTAND IT! The same way I understand why blacks are threatened by it. You have to display empathy everywhere, not just where you think it belongs.
You do know the South fired first right? You're understanding of history is a little off.
But I again fail to understand why I should feel empathy for people who's ancestors from 150 years ago where harmed.
As for their ancestors I might feel some empathy if they where not supportive of the war in any way. But asking me to feel empathy for those that did. . . that's like asking me to feel empathy for the criminal that goes to jail for a crime or for Hitler because he was forced to off himself in a bunker.
Lets not forget that all the people who supported that war on the southern side where rightfully criminals who should have at the very least spent the rest of their lives in prison.
Just getting their house burned down is at worse extremely merciful justice. They where still alive, they where still free. Heck they even got their voting rights back.
Yeah... being demoralized and dehumanized is no big deal. That's exactly what happened to blacks. That's why they still feel contempt. War is never an answer. War is humanity losing it's civility in every possible way... and then watching them justify it for the rest of history.
As I said earlier, I'm done with you. Good luck.
I mentioned to a friend that it seems like everyone expects all southerners living NOW to feel shame in the same way, they assume, all Germans should have felt immediately after World War II, in order for everything to be in balance. Maybe that will finally come to pass. I don't know. The Nazis were not the South in 1861 and vice versa.
All countries and governments have their fair share of indignities to humanity. Not all of them "win" wars. That's one of the biggest impediments to human society- Might Makes Right.
All countries and governments have their fair share of indignities to humanity. Not all of them "win" wars. That's one of the biggest impediments to human society- Might Makes Right.
Southern whites as a group do not understand what being dehumanized is. They never did.
All that happened is they where demoralized because they failed at their petty war.
I feel sorry for the people they enslaved and that their offspring later subjugated. I feel sorry for the people who died and where wounded fighting them.
Sorry if my empathy for them is lacking.
YES! They DO! That's evident in their behavior ever since! It wouldn't have been my choice of behavior, but they do understand being dehumanized and demoralized.
Their behavior ever since only shows that they understand being petty and pouty about those uppity blacks going to the same schools and getting rights.
Even when they verbally accept these things they have to have schools named after the founder of the KKK and other confederate leaders and they have to wave that flag around that their grand daddy was waving around when he attended that lynching and their great great grand daddy wove when he was fighting that yankee horde trying to take away people's rights to own those uppity blacks.
Having your home burned down isn't dehumanizing. . . Neither is losing a war (that you started for wrong reasons). Now dehumanizing things can occur because you lost a war, but that didn't occur in this instance... Nobody gave union soldiers free rein to kill unarmed white southern men and rape white southern ladies after the war. Nobody took them home as slaves. Shoot they didn't even get put in prison save for Jeff Davis and only for a little while.
No they only understood how to dehumanize others which they did for a century after the war was over. They didn't understand what actually being dehumanized was.
The only people who need to feel shame are the ones who are still clinging to a long ago lost war in defense of slavery as their "heritage". Unfortunately, they are exactly the same people who feel neither shame for their choices not empathy for those who truly suffered.
"mstp1992 said: ↑
Actually, the flag has been associated with racist organizations like the Klan since the early 20th century (and continues today)"
I was just trying to provide a simple response to mstp's post.
does the pictures I posted not show a racist organization associating itself with the American Flag?
Well, that may be the case for some, but not necessarily all. Their choices may be for a different purpose than what you think they are. I don't cling to a war as representing me. I don't believe the South was fighting for a just cause. But, I am from the South. Many of my ancestors fought in it, some died in it. My great-great grandmother was raped by a Yankee patrol, much like the scene from Cold Mountain, only no one was there to kill the Yankees. I don't hate people from the North at all.I don't hate groups of people in general, ever! I never knew my great-great grandparents. I never suffered directly from the horrors of that war, but I know they all did. I know African-descent people were dehumanized even worse for centuries. I don't glorify that in any way, shape, or form. I think it's insane that it was ever allowed or started at all.
I still think the Rebel flag looks cool. I think the Jolly Roger looks cool. The Union Jack looks cool. I don't see "Liberty and Freedom" by looking at the Stars and Stripes. I just see a cool-looking flag. I even find the German and Japanese flags of WWII cool-looking. I don't really associate crimes or behaviors with symbols. I never have. The flags of France, Italy, Russia (now) are boring as hell. I thought the USSR flag was cool-looking. It doesn't mean I wanna live there or endorse what their government does. I rarely endorse what the US Government does. I don't believe that flying the Rebel Flag, or displaying it, automatically means you want black people back on plantations anymore than flying the US Flag means you want all people to be treated fairly and all should receive Constitutional rights.
My bad. I thought you were the guy whose job it was to sell the war while you were in Iraq. One of the "you don't support the troops if you don't support the mission" guys. Then, when stateside, was doing the job for free.
So because you don't want to [publicly] acknowledge the symbolism inherent in the flag you don't think anyone else should? You are likely correct in your assertion that not all flyers of the flag are racists - but it's also likely that most are. So it's on them if they choose to display symbols that would identify them in that way. Why you believe the onus is on the observer to make that distinction is a mystery.
And please don't trot out that tired canard about not judging others...EVERYBODY does it. You've demonstrated that yourself in this very thread.
Jameis Christ, you are an ignorant fool.
Most people DO NOT consider the flag racist.
We don't expect today's southerners to feel shame for what happened long before they were born. We just don't understand why they want to glorify symbols of that era. And we don't want government entities participating in the glorification of those symbols.
If some buck-toothed, neck-tatted, mullet-haired hillbilly wants to duct tape a rebel flag to his jacked-up truck then so be it. That's his right. But state governments should not be flying the confederate flag on public property or issuing commemorative license plates.
Is that too much to ask?
I seriously doubt the folks who are flying the flag are going to self-identify as racists. And watch that judging thing. Strum doesn't like it and he's one of your few supporters.
No, I never said or implied that at all. If you see it, have whatever reaction you want to have, or feel like having. It doesn't mean your reaction is accurate to the person displaying it, if that's how you come across it somewhere.
Whether or not people judge isn't the point. The point is NOT to judge!
Not only do most people consider the flag racist, most people consider anybody (read, YOU) racist for displaying same.
Blather endlessly about your lack of racism and rationale for displaying the flag all you want, your actions speak louder than your words.
Your actions, at a minimum, enable racism and encourage racists.
The idea that we can go through life not judging is simply impossible. You've done it yourself in this thread. The idea that someone can do or say anything they wish and NOT suffer consequences is idiotic. And don't tell me that isn't what you said - it's CLEARLY what you said. You just want to limit that judgment to this one issue. Doesn't work that way.
You don't care about the flag. Fine. Say so and drop out. When you try to defend people who fly the flag and castigate those who assess them based on their actions...THAT'S YOU JUDGING.
When you say something like:
"However, to be fair, in this context, I use, and view your use of, Judge to mean "feel superior to." Okay? That is exactly what you're doing. Your judgement is superior to their choice."
THAT'S YOU JUDGING. You just said, "It doesn't mean your reaction is accurate to the person displaying it". Heed your own words. If you truly believed that, you wouldn't be trying to tell me how I use language. You wouldn't be judging me.
YOU want to feel superior to others by claiming you don't judge as you proceed to do exactly that. It's blatantly hypocritical. You should stop plying those waters.
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I have never, ever once said they wouldn't have to deal with the circumstances. They do, and will... always.
Again, the point isn't whether or not we judge, the point is not to judge. More specifically, I'd say condemnation. Is that better? Labeling a person a racist because they use a symbol that has been used by racists. Now, get the last word so you can feel like you won. I realize it's of utmost importance for you to be right and "win."
Ahhhh....I finally get it. People should suffer consequences for their actions but this should be done without judging 'them.
You don't make this better by changing the vocabulary. FTR, I have no interest in "winning". That doesn't mean you're not wrong, though.
Double check your facts before making a fool of youself.
Only 33 percent of people consider the flag a racist symbol.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-southern-pride/
This poll was taken after the SC church shooting during the controversy over removing the flag from the memorial near the Capitol.
No matter what some of y'all think. The flag does have meaning to many of us Southerners that we find important and has nothing to do with racism. I try to educate people on that and have in the past. I'm not gonna change everyone's mind, particularly not those who insist on remaining ignorant, but I can live with that. That's their problem, not mine.
Even if that number is correct, do you think maybe it's not appropriate for state governments to be issuing commemorative license plates that one out of every three people consider highly offensive?
Why do you care if it's not your state? You aren't required to own one WITH the flag. It's an option. Option is a key word here. Optional is not mandatory. Look at the bright side; Virginia has ceased to allow even SCV members to have their plate. The SCV is a historical society. Of course, they memorialize what most here regard as treason, but, that's because you're in Iowa.
I wouldn't ever want my license plate to bear that flag, but the option doesn't "enable racism" to me. People are racists with or without symbols. People are prejudiced with or without them. Just like your graphic depiction earlier of a hillbilly with a mullet and one tooth, or whatever... that reveals a prejudice. They're sub-human to you, right? Why do you care if the state they live in allows it? They don't care if your state doesn't allow it. I would be willing to bet that in Georgia, it's more like one out of every 303 are bothered by it, or even 3,003.
Really? Your question is why a citizen of this nation should care that a government within our borders is officially endorsing bigotry, rebellion and the dissolution of civil rights that took numerous years, lives and fortunes to secure? How about you sit tonight and ponder that question for a little bit.
Backs into parking spaces.
Backs into big ol' Yankee dick.
Blames everyone else for not getting what he's layin' down.
Um, no... no, that's not "my question." That's your version of what you think my question should be so you can respond with that bowl of Yankee Doodle Soup. In other words, it's a bunch of hyperbole you made up.
You need to think on this some more and find a more suitable meme. You'll know when i serve up drama.Um, no... no, that's not "my question." That's your version of what you think my question should be so you can respond with that bowl of Yankee Doodle Soup.
In a thread about a symbol and people's prejudices, tries to insult me by calling me gay.
Can't drive his car.
Doesn't understand anything and hates the world for it.
Yeah...people shouldn't try to tell you what you meant based on what they want you to have said..
Speaking of drama...
Honest question. What does the flag mean to you? What are you try to convey to others about yourself when you brandish the flag? What does the confederate flag represent to you that the American flag does not?
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