When you talked about the omission of Monika from getting recognition, I think it is because even though she is great on offense, she is terrible on defense, and terrible at rebounding. Thus two terribles and one great leaves you with mediocre.
Hawkeye Women's BBall Season 2022-2023
- Thread starter huntermmm
- Start date
If you are saying Monica is “mediocre” I’d argue you are very very wrong.
I would agree with you, if you only look at her offensive play. But when you look at her overhaul game than it is debatable. Each to their own.
I would bet there are numerous power 5 programs that would salivate at the prospect of adding “mediocreMonlca” to their roster.
I know I will be crucified for my comment. I'm a Hawkeye fan through and through, I don't watch through black and gold glasses, and I don't sugar coat it, I call it the way I see it. I responded to Kyle's article about Monika being left off of a pre-season list. If I was to make a list of top players coming back for this year, I would have left her off also. I hope she improves alot this year and receives post season recognitions. I am glad that she is a Hawkeye, but when I look at her game, I see more weaknesses than I see strengths. And I know that Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois would take her in a heart beat, but would the U-Conn's, South Carolina's, Notre Dame, Standford.
I agree that she has defensive shortcomings and is not the strongest rebounder. I wouldn't call her mediocre, however. It's really not fair and frankly offensive to say that she's mediocre. She is very good at what she does. That being said, though, Addy, Sharon and Jada have much higher upsides as their games are more rounded.
She's also lacking an outside game. I would say she's strong but she's one tier below being an elite player and I would not consider her a top returning player due to the above-named deficiencies.
She likely will not have WNBA options but could have a career overseas should she decide to go that route. Not sure what her plans are for after college.
she has some range, and might be taking some 3 pointers this year. I think they are going to play a little more inverted this year with One big in and one out.
I am hoping to see Molly at point and Caitlin at the 2 in spots this year. Lisa said she expects Molly to play at the 2 some this year. I'm not sure if any of the big gaurds (Martin/Affolter) might play the 2 in a pinch? I think the 4 spot is loaded, so some of them might be asked to fill in at the 3 & 5 from time to time.
Roster Flexibility:
Which players can fill in at which positions?
Czinano: 5
Goodman: 5
O'Grady: 5, 4
Stuelke: 5?, 4, 3?
Ediger: 4, 5?
Warnock: 4, (3?)
Gyamfi: 4
Wetering: 4, ??
Martin: 3, 4, 2?
Affolter: 2,3,4 (best at 3?)
Marshall: 2
McCabe: 2
Davis: 1, 2
Clark: 1, 2, 3?
Does anyone have insight on Wetering and Gyamfi for where they fit? I know Gymfi and Stuelke played on the all-Iowa attack. Was Stuelke the 5?
Which players can fill in at which positions?
Czinano: 5
Goodman: 5
O'Grady: 5, 4
Stuelke: 5?, 4, 3?
Ediger: 4, 5?
Warnock: 4, (3?)
Gyamfi: 4
Wetering: 4, ??
Martin: 3, 4, 2?
Affolter: 2,3,4 (best at 3?)
Marshall: 2
McCabe: 2
Davis: 1, 2
Clark: 1, 2, 3?
Does anyone have insight on Wetering and Gyamfi for where they fit? I know Gymfi and Stuelke played on the all-Iowa attack. Was Stuelke the 5?
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anon_salmfilsntd0b
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Wetering is a 3. I found an article about her recruitment where Bluder spoke at length about her athleticism and positional flexibility. As she was being evaluated, she was kind of all over the place, but then found her home at the 3 as she matured. If she were to lean in either direction, it's likely the 4, but she's perhaps not as effective at it as Edigar/O'Grady. Gyamfi can also play the 4. I'd be surprised if we see Gyamfi on the floor at all this year though.
I also believe we're more likely to see Stuelke at the 3-4 than the 4-5 this year since Bluder said she has been playing a lot on the perimeter and our front court is stacked. With Feuerbach going down after that announcement, I'd assume that's even more likely. The main subs this year should be Davis (1-2), Stuelke (3-4), and O'Grady (4-5), IMHO
Feuerbach would have obviously fit quite nicely at the 2-3 spot (seriously! woulda been a very impressive starting 5 and reserve 4, with no gaps anywhere to be found), but now that will be an opportunity for Affolter, McCabe, or even Wetering to step up. My guess is that's going to be the order of likelhood as well. I'm excited to see what Affolter can do, I missed the games with her most minutes last season.
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I think you have the inputs right (more or less), and I respect your call-it-like-you-see-it approach. But I think you get the net result wrong. Monika is a historically efficient, volume low post scorer. Barring a collapse this year, she will finish as the all-time Big Ten leader in field goal percentage (with a chance to lead the nation in FG percentage three times). She runs the court well, gets great offensive position, has truly great hands (she catches Caitlin’s missiles far better than any of her teammates), and has great shooting touch. She also improved last year to shoot nearly 85% at the line.
Modern analytics are certainly not the be all and end all, but they strongly support the notion that Monika, on net, is much better than mediocre. Win Shares is an advanced statistic that approximates the total number of wins that a player produces for his or her team through play on both the offensive and defensive ends of the court. It probably under weights defensive contributions or deficiencies, even though Win Shares is the combination of offensive and defensive Win Shares. Still, Monika’s Win Shares rank last season was # 24 in the country. In Big Ten play, Monika’s Win Shares rank was # 2. Similarly, PER (Player Efficiency Rating) is a modern stat that estimates the per minute value of a player from box score stats. Monika was 17th in PER in the country, and # 1 in Big Ten play. Finally, Monika's Offensive Player Rating was # 2 in the country, while she was at the 28th percentile for her Defensive Player Rating. I'm not going to defend the modern analytics as precisely accurate, and the defensive shortcomings in the modern analytics surely inflate Monika's value. But you don't get to be # 1 in PER in Big Ten play or # 2 in Win Shares Big Ten play by being mediocre. Mediocre players also don’t make First Team All Big Ten twice (even a 10-player team), and the All Big Ten Tournament Team twice. Likewise, a mediocre player doesn't hold the scoring record for a single Big Ten Tournament with 107 points, while shooting 77.4% (48/62).
I think this take conflates having a high downside with a high upside. You don’t get to be a great player just by having a high downside. You still need to be great at something. Based on their play to date, Addy and Sharon may have much higher downsides than Monika, but I don’t see any areas of greatness. Hope they prove me wrong.
Neither Sharon nor Addy have been really given much of an opportunity to showcase their skills yet. Addy is an excellent shot blocker and Sharon is an excellent rebounder. Neither are as offensively skilled as Monica yet but both have flashed. Sharon plays bigger than she is and can really hold her own in post defense. Both have also shown some range out to about 15 feet. I'll be curious to see who gets the primary backup duties this year.
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anon_salmfilsntd0b
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IMO Addy has the most potential of any player on the team not named Clark. I really hope she takes a big step this year. Not to put the cart ahead of the horse (and I'm of course very excited about this year), but I think I'm more excited to see her in a starter position along Clark, Feuerbach and Stuelke next year. That promises to be a very dynamic crew of well-rounded, tough, scrappy players.
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I remember Monica as a freshman. She had size but a funky shot and not nearly as gracefull a game at either end of the court As Megan. Credit to her and Jan Jensen in just one year she went from a project to a sophomore center that could score. Her quickness to get in scoring position and score meant high skill by her or terrible defenders in the big ten. How often did opposing centers out score her. Her conference and national recognitions speak for themselves
The flaw in this argument is that being great at offense is far more valuable than being a great rebounder or a great defender. Monika is a great player even though she's a bad defender and bad rebounder. Iowa would be far worse as a team with an average Big Ten or P5 center in place of Monika.
That said, Monika's weaknesses at rebounding and defense do somewhat limit Iowa's ceiling, because the team as a whole is unlikely to be good at either with her on the floor.
I also think O'Grady has the potential to be better than Monika with more experience. Monika didn't come to Iowa as a 68% from the floor shooter (she shot 54.9% as a Freshman). She got there through hard work and great development from the coaches. O'Grady can improve significantly too if she puts the work in.
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anon_salmfilsntd0b
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When Clark is asked whom she expects to take a step up this year, she first mentioned Affolter — specifically that she is settling into her position nicely. Didn’t say which but I am thinking she’ll be taking the minutes many of us thought would go to Feuerbach at the 2 and/or 3.Podcast: Caitlin Clark joins this episode of Just Jonesin' - Hawk Fanatic
By Dallas Jones IOWA CITY, IA – Caitlin Clark is one player in college sports that if you have not seen yet, you need to tune in. Following the path paved by Megan Gustafson and Kathleen Doyle, Clark led the Hawks to a share of the Big Ten regular season title and a Big Ten tournament […]hawkfanatic.com
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I have been a huge fan of Sydney Affolter, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see her role on the team increase. Here is some of my past comments about her…
Search results for query: Affolter
iowa.forums.rivals.com
Caitlin also mentions Hannah Stuelke (who she characterized as “super athletic”) and Molly Davis (who she credited for her ball handling skills). I have also been impressed with Hannah since she first committed to the Hawkeyes and continue to be optimistic about her potential to have an impact this year.
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She also mentioned Shateah Wettering right after Syd.I have been a huge fan of Sydney Affolter, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see her role on the team increase. Here is some of my past comments about her…
Also, Sydney was renown in High School for having many double doubles as well as being a very good 3-point shooter.Search results for query: Affolter
iowa.forums.rivals.com
Caitlin also mentions Hannah Stuelke (who she expressly recognizes for her athleticism) and Molly Davis (who she credited for her ball handling skills). I have also been impressed with Hannah since she first committed to the Hawkeyes and continue to be optimistic about her potential to have an impact this year.
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anon_salmfilsntd0b
Guest
Season opener is not for over a month yet and first “big” game at Drake isn’t not for 1.5 months. Probably not quite time to worry yet.
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anon_salmfilsntd0b
Guest
Thanks! Do we know when/how or how bad it is? I’m having flashbacks to Edigar having a sprained ankle that just never went away lol.
Unless it's a high ankle sprain, it shouldn't be a big issue. Ankle sprains in season are a little different, because you can play on them before they fully heal, but playing on them also makes them linger. With it happening now, she can stay in the boot until it's healed.
If folks would excuse me for veering slightly off topic for just one post, I'm soliciting interest in a women's college basketball fantasy league hosted at the RebKell's Junkie Boards NCAA Women's Basketball forum. It's a grassroots league with a small but committed group of women's basketball fans. Last year we had 12 people playing and it was great fun. I help on the logistical side running a spreadsheet that records stats to determine winners and losers of our weekly head-to-head matchups.
We are aiming to draft our rosters on the weekend of Oct 29/30 (depending on the availability of participants), one week before the season kicks off.
If you are solely an Iowa/B1G WBB fan but want to expand your knowledge of the game, this is a great way to become emotionally invested in other players and teams around the country, P5 schools and mid-majors alike.
Here is the thread we've started for the season:
Here's last year's thread which gives you a little more idea of how it played out over the season, if you're interested:
LMK if anyone has questions. (I think there's a DM feature on here but I've never used it?)
Now, back to Iowa WBB specific stuff! Thanks in advance for excusing my tangent in the love of women's basketball. ✌️
We are aiming to draft our rosters on the weekend of Oct 29/30 (depending on the availability of participants), one week before the season kicks off.
If you are solely an Iowa/B1G WBB fan but want to expand your knowledge of the game, this is a great way to become emotionally invested in other players and teams around the country, P5 schools and mid-majors alike.
Here is the thread we've started for the season:
Here's last year's thread which gives you a little more idea of how it played out over the season, if you're interested:
LMK if anyone has questions. (I think there's a DM feature on here but I've never used it?)
Now, back to Iowa WBB specific stuff! Thanks in advance for excusing my tangent in the love of women's basketball. ✌️
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Big Ten Preseason Media Poll
1- Iowa
2- Indiana
3- Ohio State
4- Maryland
5- Nebraska
Big Ten Preseason Player of the Year is Caitlin Clark.
Caitlin Clark and Monika Czinano are both preseason All-Big Ten selections.
1- Iowa
2- Indiana
3- Ohio State
4- Maryland
5- Nebraska
Big Ten Preseason Player of the Year is Caitlin Clark.
Caitlin Clark and Monika Czinano are both preseason All-Big Ten selections.
I'm interested. I'll try to make an account and join in the next day or two.
This is good context to the value of Czinano to the team. She is a great offensive player at the college level. People don't realize how hard it is to be so efficient on 2-point shots and free throws, and at a high volume as well.
People can choose to be fans however they want, but I'll choose to enjoy the team for what it is, very skilled on offense and when they are clicking it is a sight to behold. But also realize they will lose some games they probably "shouldn't" just because they can't defend at a high level.
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anon_salmfilsntd0b
Guest
Really good points here. It's easy to forget that most teams are nowhere near as efficient as us. Free throws are a great example. Sometimes I watch other teams play and I see them miss so many free throws and I have to remind myself that it's only shocking to me because we're just so good at them.
Re: the second point -- in CC's recent podcast appearance, when asked if anything had changed from last year to this year in terms of practice / the team's approach, CC first replied "Not really." I was pretty shocked to hear that, because I was expecting/hoping she'd say that they've really locked down on defense or what not. But then she said "what has really changed is our intensity -- our practices have become so intense this summer"
I'm hoping that that translates to scrappier play on both ends. I look at how Teri Moren approaches defense and at the end of the day, her best defenders are no Veronica Burton -- they're just super intense. Annoying even, as some have said (in a good way). Frustrating. Chippy. NCH was not known for her D at George Mason, but became an excellent defender under Teri Moren.
Even on the offensive side, that's an attitude that teams who are clearly a level below us exhibit regularly -- South Dakota had it in spades last year, and it took them pretty far in the NCAA tourney. I'd love for our team to buy into that mentality. Rebounding, loose balls, etc. We showed hints of that in some games last year, like Michigan @ home...but it was the exception, not the norm.
I get that players have a finite amount of energy and that we expend a lot on our fast-paced offense, but here's hoping that with more depth, we'll be able to expend more energy on the other end of the court and off-ball. According to CC, something is changing...we must wait and see what that truly means tho.
I agree about the energy/effort argument. The last couple years our starters knew they had to play 30 plus minutes every game. I think that led to some of the defensive and rebounding deficiencies that we saw. Hopefully with our added depth the coaches are emphasizing going hard as much as possible.
We should also acknowledge that the team's defensive ceiling is relatively low. Marshall probably can't grow much as a defender because of physical limitations. Same with Czinano and Warnock. Our defense can still improve from what it's been, but it will never approach elite even with full effort and added development.
Iowa ranked 99th last season in terms of Defensive Rating per Her Hoops Stats, up from a ranking of 186th in 2020-21. How much more do you believe Iowa can improve? Top 50? For comparison's sake, the 2019 Elite Eight team ranked 54th.
I’m an old wrestler….. only watch Iowa bball so keep that in mind 😂
But I thought Davis was brought in because of her on ball defense….. am I wrong?
But I thought Davis was brought in because of her on ball defense….. am I wrong?
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anon_salmfilsntd0b
Guest
She was brought in to be a backup PG, which we don’t otherwise have. Her ball handling should be serviceable and her 3 pt / slashing abilities are above average, but her defense doesn’t seem to be a major selling point.
I don’t think we should expect or hope for elite defense. Our stellar offense gives us quite a bit of cushion on where our defense needs to be. But if we can improve a bit more, it may just be enough to take us where we wanna be.
I have heard from a person close to the program that Davis has been excellent in practice and the team would not lose a beat if she started.
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anon_salmfilsntd0b
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That’s great to hear. I am very hopeful she makes an impact!
If we actually rebound and don't give up 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th chance points (yes we did give up 5th chance a few times last year) then our defense could improve Top 30/40.
We need to play good defense for the entire playclock and not give up shots in the last five seconds. But rebounding killed our defensive rating because we'd force a bad shot only to give up the rebound and an easy 2nd chance basket or 3rd chance basket.
We could have beaten many teams much more handily than we did if we just rebounded and could have won a bunch of those close losses.
The team knows how to play defense but they have shot themselves in the foot boxing out or just losing situational awareness at the end of the shot clock.
Sharon is a very good rebounder and Hannah has the potential to be a great rebounder. A deeper bench and fresher legs will also allow for more effort to be put into rebounding and defense. It's hard to close out quickly or make a play on a rebound/loose ball when you're gassed.
I expect major improvement defensively this season.
Improvement would be great. And I have no doubt this team is working hard. It seems like they have good character players and they want to win.
With that said, the upside for how good they can be defensively is limited. They aren't going to block shots and be a threat to deny anyone going to the rim. That in and of itself is not good, but they also aren't very fleet of foot on the perimeter, and struggle keeping the opponent in front of them. So when you can't stop teams from getting to the basket, and can't stop them when they get there, that's trouble. Pile on the defensive rebounding issues and what you get is a team that struggles defensively. The extra depth will help I'm sure. I would expect that the improvements will be marginal. But even marginal improvements can mean more wins, which means higher seeds and greater chance to advance in the tournament.
Jedn I value your opinion but to say there is no drop off between Caitlin Clark and Molly Davis is simply not right. Molly will be a great addition and is a nice piece of the puzzle but she is no Caitlin Clark.
