Gabe has an equal chance of beating Nelson as he does Kennedy.
Hawkeyes at U20/23's
- Thread starter jrod65
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That’s a loose definition of title contender.
Perhaps he will get there with a few more years to heal up.
I think title contender means capable of winning a title, but that's just me. if you mean high AA, say that.
And multiple career wins over the highest returning place winner.
Funny, and again I want what's best for the team and Iowa. If you don't think Kennedy is a legit D1 wrestler with high AA talent then there is nothing I can say that will change that. Bottom line is that he has consistently beaten or been close with AAs. He's up a weight. I have no doubt he would have also AA'd at 165. He had beaten Facundo, Ruth, Conigliaro, and on and on. He lost this season to a national finalist in OT 2 weeks before NCAAs. He just won U23 Nationals. I have no doubt he is on the cusp of reaching High AA. He had 1, I'll repeat 1, bad match last season. Yes, at the wrong time. But he is a true 165lber and I think he had a he'll of a season.
I'm done debating opinion. The good news is that it will all work itself out and if Gabe wins the spot, I'll still think we have a high AA in our lineup at 174.
I still talk to many still in the room and I'm happy to report they have the same opinion as me on Kennedy.
I think many of you still think we're talking about Marinelli.
Kennedy last year was far better than the year before, and he was up a weight.
To have a fifth? year guy with no history of success in March being compared to a top 10 pfp recruit/redshirt frosh is….. interesting to say the least.
Behind who? You can be the #2 guy in the country and not be a title contender if you have no shot of beating #1.
Trust me when Gabe wins the spot I will very happily and eagerly admit my opinion was off. I want the best man to take the mat. It will be a dog fight. But I think Keneddy is deserving of more respect and it's still his spot to lose. Remember anything can happen, this same thing happened when Kennedy lost to Marinelli 3-2 as a freshman. You all were so pie-eyed. Let's see what happens with Gabe.
I'm sorry but you have a different definition of contender than everybody else. That's fine, but don't be surprised when you get push back.
PK can maybe be a high AA at 174, but that's more about 174 being extremely weak this year, especially if KOT stays at 165.
Overall, we should feel pretty good about having, between Gabe and PK, a 174 capable of scoring significant team points in March.
PK can maybe be a high AA at 174, but that's more about 174 being extremely weak this year, especially if KOT stays at 165.
Overall, we should feel pretty good about having, between Gabe and PK, a 174 capable of scoring significant team points in March.
That was off the top of mind. So PK has no quality wins in your book? Remember I said and on and on....
Losing to high level high schoolers isn’t the jab you think it is. If you paid attention to the Olympic trials process you would know that.
That just lost to a high schooler if you are taking everything so literally. I have no doubt Gabe will have a better career, but last time I checked we were talking about who wins the spot in 6 months from now
I think the difference here is that hype was based on close losses while Gabe has actually beaten high level guys. His first two matches were wins against former AAs. PK has beaten 3 AAs his entire career (and one of them was a 26 seed AA several years prior who never came close again).
Until he starts doing it, most on here aren't going to believe he can be a top 5 guy.
Again, I know very well what it means. But losing to Mekhi Lewis in the placing round should be considered as well.
Ok, if you dismiss some of PKs wins, then let's no pretend beating an aging Wittlake (who lost his spot to Brayden Thompson) or Feldkamp are all that quality. Nice wins but still. Again, Gabe is the future and might very well be the current...but you have Wolak, Welch, Facundo, Ryder, etc for several years. It will be tough for Gabe to also be the 4x AA we all want him to be.
What would you say if Angelo wants to go 174. Does Gabe win the spot? I'll take Angelo over Ryder right now.
1) No
2) Very true, but we haven't seen anything in 4 years to believe PK has a better shot. No matter how you spin it, he's been disappointing based on what he was billed as coming in and fans are understandably more excited about the young up and coming star than the 5th year guy who's never placed.
I'm not basing my opinion on past results, I'm basing it on who would win in a wrestle off currently. I've said it several times, Gabe is a stud and will have a better career but to think Kennedy is not in the conversation to start or AA is baffling to me. I know he hasn't done it yet but he is as good as they get compared to the field.
Why do you think either can score significant points in March? Kennedy hasn't done it yet....to quote all the dissenters on here.
This is what I've been arguing all along!!! If you score significant points you are a high AA. Both are capable but now I'm delusional for thinking one significant scorer is slightly ahead (further in his career) of the other? Interesting, I'm boxing a ghost here
Should have been a no trainer for Gabe to wrestle 174 last year. I mean, he was so much better than Kennedy ‐ and Kennedy never placed prior so we should have known he wouldn't do it again. Aren't you all of the opinion that the best man should start....or do we wiggle on that too? I'm being rhetorical here
Frankly, because 174 is weak. I think both have limitations that prevent them from being sure-fire AAs. I have more faith in Gabe, as the younger guy, improving than PK in his 5th year.
This is a little silly at this point, you're right. I started this whole thing by saying PK/Gabe was going to be a very tight battle next year. And I was a big PK at 174 cheerleader this past year. I think it blew up because you described PK as a title contender and that's been so far from our experience with him for 4 years.
Kennedy was billed the same as Gabe coming in. And without 5 free starts, Kennedy lost a close 3-2 match to Marinelli and people's opinions became solidified that we had a multiple time Champ in the wings. Clearly that didn't happen. I'm very optimistic on Gabe but I'd hate for him not to meet "the board's" expectations and take crap like Kennedy. These kids are awesome these days...see Zach Ryder, Angelo etc. There's no guarantee that Gabe will have the career he wants but that doesn't mean he is isn't capable. Kennedy has consistently performed with a few bad matches here and there. Hell, Gabe just lost a match to Ryder by his own mistakes, stepped out on his own attack. Things happen.
This thing got derailed because I said the (preseason) #3 ranked kid in the nation was a title contender (with Starocci gone) after going to OT with the other finalist. I apologize, my bad.
Well as long as you're taking responsibility, I accept your apology.
I’m pretty sure Gabe has beat as many AA level talents in his redshirt year as PK has in his time at Iowa.
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