How long does Fran get?

[Hawk_4shur]

It's a fair question, but I'm for keeping Fran around for a while longer.

Iowa has won or shared 8 B1G titles since 1906, and only 3 in the last 60 years. There have been many coaches along the way that couldn't get it done either. I like Fran's chances as well as anyone else (willing to coach at Iowa) to get the next one.

 

[srams21]

Jerry Palm, when asked what teams like Iowa can do to become better, he replied "Recruit better players and coach 'em up." Yesterday on BTN.

Incredibly deep insight there by Jerry.

 

[srams21]

It's a fair question, but I'm for keeping Fran around for a while longer.

Iowa has won or shared 8 B1G titles since 1906, and only 3 in the last 60 years. There have been many coaches along the way that couldn't get it done either. I like Fran's chances as well as anyone else (willing to coach at Iowa) to get the next one.

I think the team has a great two to three year window to win a BIG title coming up here. I think it starts in the 18-19 season when the upperclassmen are Baer, Wagner, Ellingson, Cook, Kreiner, Pemsl, Moss, and Bohannon.

 

[David1979]

I think next year will be a struggle as well but if they keep the core together in 18-19 and 19-20 they could have good seasons.

 

[srams21]

I think next year will be a struggle as well but if they keep the core together in 18-19 and 19-20 they could have good seasons.

I'm not so sure.

They return pretty much everyone except Jok. I was more concerned about his departure until I saw the two games without him. Double digit wins over Rutgers and OSU were pretty impressive. Add in some development over the next year for our young guys and a few new additions to the team and you can see why next year should be better.

I think 20+ wins is very possible and an NCAA berth is likely for next season.

 

[EastIowaHawk]

As of right now, Fran can probably stay as long as he wants. With this young group, he is actually doing better than predicted (I think), and things can only get better over the next couple of years, and probably beyond because he has a solid group from which to build. This means that future schollies go to proven good players, not projects. We still have a couple project players on our roster at the bottom (but they may turn out to be surprises).

The Iowa administration likes Fran because, like Ferentz, he's a good character guy (aside from some sideline antics, which I don't like), brings in good character kids who are also decent students, and he runs a clean program that they perceive as getting better.

I think the Iowa program is on the way up and could hit heights not seen since the Raveling/Lute era and before. He still hasn't got his starting lineup figured out, plays a few too many different kids in every game, and doesn't yet have a killer, consistent guard, but that will come soon, hopefully. By next year our team should more resemble the teams in the upper echelon of the BIG, and barring some catastrophe, the future looks bright if the fans have a little patience. Success brings success; build it and they will come, and all that.

 

[Pepperman]

I think the team has a great two to three year window to win a BIG title coming up here. I think it starts in the 18-19 season when the upperclassmen are Baer, Wagner, Ellingson, Cook, Kreiner, Pemsl, Moss, and Bohannon.

I completely agree with this. That's actually what I think will happen too. The problem is if the team struggles AGAIN with the same problems, won't it be time to cut bait? I think this discussion, hypothetical as it is, was the point of the thread so that's why I'm asking about it again.

 

[srams21]

I completely agree with this. That's actually what I think will happen too. The problem is if the team struggles AGAIN with the same problems, won't it be time to cut bait? I think this discussion, hypothetical as it is, was the point of the thread so that's why I'm asking about it again.

That's a valid question.

Let me start by saying this: I think, for me at least, defining a season as successful based solely upon how far you get in the NCAA tournament is not a good measurement.

With that said, what is successful? The last two seasons we went 12-6 in the BIG and finished third (out of 14 teams) two years in a row. I consider that successful especially considering I don't think we were exceptionally talented.

Now, we did falter quite a bit, to your point, in late game situations. Part of it was coaching, personnel, stubbornness, etc... However, I do hope that gets fixed. I think having personnel better suited for that may also help. For example, better shooters (Bohannon, Ellingson) and creators (Moss, Cook) might be better than guys like Gesell or Clemmons were. I don't know for sure though.

I would love BIG championship and final four run. However, what if we win the BIG but lose in the Sweet 16? What if we disappoint in the regular season but make the elite 8 (a la Syracuse)?

There are so many different possibilities as basketball is really two different seasons. For me, top 3 finishes in the BIG and a sweet 16 run would be awesome in the next few years. Anything on top of that is icing on the cake. If we could break the BIG regular season championship streak I wouldn't ask the college sports gods for anything else for at least ten years though

 

[David1979]

I'm not so sure.

They return pretty much everyone except Jok. I was more concerned about his departure until I saw the two games without him. Double digit wins over Rutgers and OSU were pretty impressive. Add in some development over the next year for our young guys and a few new additions to the team and you can see why next year should be better.

I think 20+ wins is very possible and an NCAA berth is likely for next season.

Two wins over two of the worst teams in the league doesn't impress me. It was nice to get the wins to show they don't suck but still think they will be middle of the pack in the Big Ten and will likely have a more difficult big Ten schedule.

 

[Ronman]

Yeah, let's dump McCaffery and go out and find someone that will take us to the next level like Alford did.

 

[dmoore27]

In response to the original poster. AS LONG AS IT TAKES! His style of play, it took some time to get HIS type of players and Woody and Mikes team went to Finals of NIT and 3 Straight years to NCAA tourney. With such a dropoff from last years Senior led team to this years Freshman team you would of expected a down year.

I live in Austin, go ahead and look at the recruiting talent Shaka Smart has on his team. He was once the most wanted coaches in all of college basketball and is now coaching the team to a 10 - 15 record.

 

[srams21]

Two wins over two of the worst teams in the league doesn't impress me. It was nice to get the wins to show they don't suck but still think they will be middle of the pack in the Big Ten and will likely have a more difficult big Ten schedule.

They won both games by double digits while playing all freshmen and sophomores without their "leader".

Further, I think OSU is a pretty decent team. They are a bubble team and a nice win for a young team. Also, and I could be way off base, but typically young teams improve quite a bit.

Look at Minnesota last year vs this year.

 

[goodbyebobby]

Iowa: 132–96 (.579) 60–59 (.504)
Fran's overall coaching record: 383–273 (.584)

I like Fran. I'm excited about the recruits we've recently signed ... That being said, I DO NOT think Fran gets a free pass to coach at Iowa as long as he likes ...

I don't think there is a lot of pressure on Fran ... because of how down we've been as a program overall since the Dr. Tom days ... Our expectations have changed ... Now, we're happy to just get IN the Dance.

The Lick days were as bad as any of my 40 years of being a Hawk fan ... I give Fran credit for building us back up ... Now, it's time to see what he can do ... It's been 7 years ... The next 3 years (I think) will show if Fran can take Iowa basketball to another level.

I live in DSM ... have a large group of Hawk friends ... I used to be an I-Club board member ... Many of my Hawk friends pretty much turn all of their attention to football and basketball is an afterthought ... meaning, I just don't think the heat is there because the passion for Iowa bball isn't what it used to be ... Yes, Iowa still has passionate bball fans ... but just not as many ...

Your last sentence is spot on. I'll be 50 in April and when we were kids The FH/CHA would sell out if we were playing Coe.
Too many options on TV and later start time are, to me, a big reason there are always empty seats anymore.

 

[Myvue]

To me Fran could buy more time if he coaches to some wins in the BIG Conference tournament. On average a team would only win the regular season conference championship every 14 years. He can have more success by winning a few games in the conference tournament. Iowa record is 2-6 in conference tournament games in his six years. If he could coach to a few tournament wins he would get a better seed should Iowa make the NCAA tournament.

To me two wins in six years in the conference tournament would not be acceptable and those two wins were in his second and third year as coach.

Every team in a conference could actually make big improvements each year but at the end of the season there are still the same number of wins and losses to spread around.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Its really not BS.

That was his first major class that were highly rated with tons of seniors and experience on that team. AND, one of the best transfers we have ever had in JU. To say we were supposed to be a bubble team is absurd and shows how low the expectations are for Iowa BB; and proves some of my thread correct.

It wasn't my prediction. That was the national consensus. It was a decent recruiting class mainly because they came in ready to play not because of NBA upside.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

We could lose 5 out of 7 to finish this year and it isn't because of some late season issue with fran. Its because the schedule was backloaded with tough games on the road. That won't stop the narrative though.

 

[K OKeefe]

Fran will basically get as long as he wants. The Iowa administration and Iowa fans are going to be much more patient with Fran because they remember all to well what happened after they, Bob Bowlsby and the fans ran Dr. Tom off. Moreover, the athletic department and fans remember the depths the program was in when Lickliter bottomed it out. I am sure that the before mentioned parties are gun shy that if they ran Fran off trying to achieve the "Next Level" Iowa will end up with another Stevie A. or Lickliter.

In the mean time, I am still waiting for Fran to make it out of the first week of the NCAA Tournament with one of his teams.

 

[cocoem]

Whoooo buddy.

Fran has 0 conference titles and has gotten to the second round once. Why does he get as long as he wants at Iowa?

Go play in traffic.....either you have memory loss or are 20 years old. Iowa basketball, just like football, is a mid level program. There will be years where they jump up and have great success. Winning 20+ games in college basketball is not an easy task. You should be banned for a month for even posting stuff like this.

 

[cocoem]

Fran will basically get as long as he wants. The Iowa administration and Iowa fans are going to be much more patient with Fran because they remember all to well what happened after they, Bob Bowlsby and the fans ran Dr. Tom off. Moreover, the athletic department and fans remember the depths the program was in when Lickliter bottomed it out. I am sure that the before mentioned parties are gun shy that if they ran Fran off trying to achieve the "Next Level" Iowa will end up with another Stevie A. or Lickliter.

In the mean time, I am still waiting for Fran to make it out of the first week of the NCAA Tournament with one of his teams.

Because that is easy to do...NO BIG DEAL!!!! Sweet 16 or you suck mentality....that is why Iowa is Iowa

 

[SDHawkDoc]

I'm much less enamored of a B1G title than some seem to be.

Would it be great? Sure.

But, at the end of the season the question I always ask is: What were the NCAA tourney results?

A high finish in conference loses a lot of luster if they flame out early in the tourney. A low finish in conference is quickly forgotten if they make it to the sweet 16. Or better

 

[SotaHawk87]

I'm much less enamored of a B1G title than some seem to be.

Would it be great? Sure.

But, at the end of the season the question I always ask is: What were the NCAA tourney results?

A high finish in conference loses a lot of luster if they flame out early in the tourney. A low finish in conference is quickly forgotten if they make it to the sweet 16. Or better

I'm with SDHawk

 

[K OKeefe]

I'm much less enamored of a B1G title than some seem to be.

Would it be great? Sure.

But, at the end of the season the question I always ask is: What were the NCAA tourney results?

A high finish in conference loses a lot of luster if they flame out early in the tourney. A low finish in conference is quickly forgotten if they make it to the sweet 16. Or better

A couple of years ago the Cyclones finished second with a 12-6 record in the Big 12 Conference and then won their conference tournament and proceeded to get bounced in (what is now) the second round of the NCAA Tournament. I am pretty sure the ISU fans would trade the Big 12 Conference Tournament victory for a Sweet 16 run. In addition, they had two Sweet 16 runs in 3 years. Iowa had a span where they made a run to the Sweet 16 twice, Elite Eight once, and the Final Four once in 4 out 8 years. A Sweet 16 by year 10 of Fran's tenure is reasonable.

 

[NI hawk]

To me Fran could buy more time if he coaches to some wins in the BIG Conference tournament. On average a team would only win the regular season conference championship every 14 years. He can have more success by winning a few games in the conference tournament. Iowa record is 2-6 in conference tournament games in his six years. If he could coach to a few tournament wins he would get a better seed should Iowa make the NCAA tournament.

To me two wins in six years in the conference tournament would not be acceptable and those two wins were in his second and third year as coach.

Every team in a conference could actually make big improvements each year but at the end of the season there are still the same number of wins and losses to spread around.

2-6 Big Ten tournament record with losses to the 11,12, and 13 seeds the last three years is not good. Fran also struggles with rotations. Definitely two areas that need impr

To me Fran could buy more time if he coaches to some wins in the BIG Conference tournament. On average a team would only win the regular season conference championship every 14 years. He can have more success by winning a few games in the conference tournament. Iowa record is 2-6 in conference tournament games in his six years. If he could coach to a few tournament wins he would get a better seed should Iowa make the NCAA tournament.

To me two wins in six years in the conference tournament would not be acceptable and those two wins were in his second and third year as coach.

Every team in a conference could actually make big improvements each year but at the end of the season there are still the same number of wins and losses to spread around.

2-6 record with losses to the 11, 12, and 13 seeds in Big Ten tourney the last three years is a concern. Definitely hurts NCAA seeding. Fran also needs to find a rotation. If you check the box scores of some of the more successful teams, a majority play 7-8 players. An occasional 9th. Iowa played 11 in the first half of MSU game.

 

[hawk_a_holic]

Whoooo buddy.

Fran has 0 conference titles and has gotten to the second round once. Why does he get as long as he wants at Iowa?

Davidson and Temple wins in 1st round mean 2nd round twice.

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

I can see why you would view my post that way, but here's some truth - we won't be "winning" if we still have problems 1 and 2 during games. So it will be completely legit if I am citing these problems. Most of the big games in conference will come down to a few possessions after all.

To win at MN, Nebraska it would have taken one more made shot. I think the team has shown plenty capable, just been unlucky even with what you're citing as problems.

Fran has repeatedly given his teams opportunities to win close games. We've missed free throws, missed shots, turned the ball over. At what point is it random luck vs Fran's coaching?

 

[Hawksfor3]

Incredibly deep insight there by Jerry.

I thought we were already coaching 'em up.

 

[youcantguardme]

Remember when everyone wanted Bruce Pearl? Oh what he was going to do at Auburn. He is 42-49 at Auburn with a 14-34 conference record in a one team conference. Might take some time but we are gonna get there. I am p offed as much as anybody for Moss not playing more in the Minn game but I will still take Fran.

 

[Hawksfor3]

Great points.

My take before the season was anything over .500 would be a success with all of the youth we had to play.

I am on record as giving him another 3 year block. This group of Frosh and his next couple classes to get us into the sweet 16 or better. I think that is fair in my book as it would be his 10th season at Iowa.

Sports Reference: Fran at Iowa through 7 seasons: 132-98. Let's give him more time, say, yeah 3 years.

 

[K OKeefe]

Remember when everyone wanted Bruce Pearl? Oh what he was going to do at Auburn. He is 42-49 at Auburn with a 14-34 conference record in a one team conference. Might take some time but we are gonna get there. I am p offed as much as anybody for Moss not playing more in the Minn game but I will still take Fran.

Auburn was far more decrepit than Iowa ever was. In addition, I believe Bruce Pearl had a "Show Cause" penalty limiting his ability to recruit.Of course, the ruling allows him to evaluate but not recruit. Bruce Pearl has shown the ability to recruit top notch players. He had two Sweet 16 runs and an Elite Eight run at Tennessee. In addition, he took a mid-major to the Sweet 16 (something Fran has never done) and he won the DII Championship at Southern Indiana. So to compare Fran to Bruce Pearl is a poor comparison because Fran is not in Bruce Pearl's league as a recruiter or coach. Bruce Pearl's run at Tennessee (historically a football school) was pretty amazing. Pearl had no interest in the Iowa job when Lick was fired.

The flip side of that is Pearl is a convicted liar. In addition, he recruited some questionable student/athletes much the way that Stevie A. did when he was at Iowa. Fran runs a clean program and recruits solid student/athletes and he is not a convicted liar.

 

[buttermypancakes]

I completely agree with this. That's actually what I think will happen too. The problem is if the team struggles AGAIN with the same problems, won't it be time to cut bait? I think this discussion, hypothetical as it is, was the point of the thread so that's why I'm asking about it again.

Every ****ing coach in the country would be on the hot seat with 4 straight mediocre seasons, so what's the point of the discussion? This "hypothetical" discussion is dumb, especially when you consider the young talent on this team and the recruiting classes coming in. Everything is pointing up but let's talk about the worst case scenario.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

I don't have a short memory but apparently some of you forgot the crater the Iowa program was in before Franny arrived. Fran for the most part has exceeded expectations although last year's team going out on a whimper was a head scratcher for sure.

I truly believe great things are ahead for this basketball program and I love our coach's passion for the game and for the young men on his team. The list of coaches I'd trade him for is very short.

 

[youcantguardme]

Bet he gets Frantastically long when he hops in bed with his wife after church.

 

[wneff]

I have posted this before, but I am convinced that the play of Fran's sons may define his tenure. Either they will take us to new heights and we will be working on the statue location; or they fail, completely fracturing the coach-fan relationship beyond repair. What is weird is to me is that we could have the same dynamic simultaneously in Kinnick.

 

[bravehawks1]

I think that Fran deserves several more years, but there has to be progress at the end of the season in either the BTT or NCAA. Dr Tom was fired for taking teams to the NCAA on a consistent basis and even playing the second weekend a couple of times. Fran has brought the team from a deep hole (aka Lickliter years) but he is now on the second set of his own players. Iowa barely made the NCAA in two of Fran's years so that means we are somewhere around a top 60 program. Iowa will never be a blue blood but we should be closer to a top 30 program on a regular basis with some runs to the top 15 or so (yes, just like FB). If Fran can't get us there by 2020, then the seat should probably be more than warm.
As for the coaches sons, are we sure that Connor is playing basketball. Doesn't he have a strong interest in baseball too and may enroll with a baseball scholarship of some level. Not sure those two sports are a good pairing at the college level, heck the baseball team travels to Florida this weekend to open the season, so which team would Connor migrate too when February arrives. I'm not being critical if Connor chooses baseball either, he needs to follow his passion

 

[Pepperman]

Every ****ing coach in the country would be on the hot seat with 4 straight mediocre seasons, so what's the point of the discussion? This "hypothetical" discussion is dumb, especially when you consider the young talent on this team and the recruiting classes coming in. Everything is pointing up but let's talk about the worst case scenario.

I think you're taking this topic (and yourself) way too seriously.

As for your contention that I should wait until we are a team of upperclassmen and then judge how things go, we just had that last year. We still had awful rotations and played incredibly poorly at the end of close games.

So yeah, I think my hypothetical post - in a thread that is specifically designed for speculation - is just fine.

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

I think that Fran deserves several more years, but there has to be progress at the end of the season in either the BTT or NCAA. Dr Tom was fired for taking teams to the NCAA on a consistent basis and even playing the second weekend a couple of times. Fran has brought the team from a deep hole (aka Lickliter years) but he is now on the second set of his own players. Iowa barely made the NCAA in two of Fran's years so that means we are somewhere around a top 60 program. Iowa will never be a blue blood but we should be closer to a top 30 program on a regular basis with some runs to the top 15 or so (yes, just like FB). If Fran can't get us there by 2020, then the seat should probably be more than warm.

Don't forget that each conference gets an autobid so there are less than 40 "at large" selections. I think we are looking at closer to a top 45 program rather than top 60 like you're suggesting.

 

[DanL53]

To win at MN, Nebraska it would have taken one more made shot. I think the team has shown plenty capable, just been unlucky even with what you're citing as problems.

Fran has repeatedly given his teams opportunities to win close games. We've missed free throws, missed shots, turned the ball over. At what point is it random luck vs Fran's coaching?

It is odd how few posters ever mention that we are hardly ever blown out.

 

[DanL53]

Every ****ing coach in the country would be on the hot seat with 4 straight mediocre seasons, so what's the point of the discussion? This "hypothetical" discussion is dumb, especially when you consider the young talent on this team and the recruiting classes coming in. Everything is pointing up but let's talk about the worst case scenario.

Maybe it's a complain while there is still time thing?

I had to stop reading when I actually read someone defending Bruce Pearl's record...but can't get up for McCaffery's job at Iowa. That was about the lowest I've seen this board go.

My restraint today has been remarkable...poor, poor Bruce Pearl. Lickliter too! He had things well in hand and now look at the program!

Fran hasn't given us a regular season conference championship in over 35 years!

 

[Banks Fan]

Great points.

My take before the season was anything over .500 would be a success with all of the youth we had to play.

I am on record as giving him another 3 year block. This group of Frosh and his next couple classes to get us into the sweet 16 or better. I think that is fair in my book as it would be his 10th season at Iowa.

YOU are on record? If your first name is not Gary, what does that mean?

 

[Ronman]

I had to stop reading when I actually read someone defending Bruce Pearl's record...but can't get up for McCaffery's job at Iowa. That was about the lowest I've seen this board go.

To be fair, the person defending Pearl's record at Auburn is a tepid Iowa fan at best (and a clown troll at worst).