Good point! However, I think we shouldn't be happy to only being a top 45 program either
How long does Fran get?
- Thread starter hexumhawk
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I love how you overlook the facts that I posted. The next Sweet 16 Fran coaches his team to will be his first. Pearl has taken a mid-major and a P5 team to 3 Sweet 16s and one Elite Eight. I distinctly remember Bruce Pearl's name being bantered around for the Iowa job after Lickliter was shown the door. As usual all you can do is lick Fran's boots and resort to name calling. I guess that is all you have.
"The flip side of that is Pearl is a convicted liar. In addition, he recruited some questionable student/athletes much the way that Stevie A. did when he was at Iowa. Fran runs a clean program and recruits solid student/athletes and he is not a convicted liar."
Those of you who did not support the Hawks during the Lick years do not know what a tomb CHA was during that period. The only good thing was it allowed me to move closer to the action on th floor each year. We now love watching the new kids grow and it appears the pipeline will bring in more talent the next few years. I sincerely hope Fran will be around for several more years. We do not need another coaching change, just because we are not winning the NCAA title every year!
His recruiting has gotten much better and we have some young guys who are fun to watch with more coming in next year.
Recruiting has steadily improved and the overall skill/talent level should continue to rise over the next several years. However, some fans wont be happy until Fran has a roster that has evenly distributed classes that look something like this, this should be easy right?
C- 7'0 shot blocker, rim defender, good low post moves, and can also step out and hit a 15 footer
F-6'9 260 - enforcer, can run the floor and shut down the opposition, also has good post moves and get step out a hit a 15 footer or even a 3 pointer
F-6'6- multi skilled athlete who can do it all on the court, should be a first round pick but stays at Iowa an extra year because he loves the fans and school so much
G- 6'5 shooter, Kingsbury range but not streaky, just a consistent 50% shooter who hits about 94% on free throws,
G- 5'11 super quick, can break a press alone and beat anyone off the dribble. Thinks pass first but is a deadly shooter.
3-4 young guys on the bench who can do exactly the things mentioned above but will happily wait their turn for more minutes
3-4 more guys who are redshirted or just happy towel wavers who fans cheer for to make a shot after we have a team blown out.
Why can't Fran make this happen?!?!
C- 7'0 shot blocker, rim defender, good low post moves, and can also step out and hit a 15 footer
F-6'9 260 - enforcer, can run the floor and shut down the opposition, also has good post moves and get step out a hit a 15 footer or even a 3 pointer
F-6'6- multi skilled athlete who can do it all on the court, should be a first round pick but stays at Iowa an extra year because he loves the fans and school so much
G- 6'5 shooter, Kingsbury range but not streaky, just a consistent 50% shooter who hits about 94% on free throws,
G- 5'11 super quick, can break a press alone and beat anyone off the dribble. Thinks pass first but is a deadly shooter.
3-4 young guys on the bench who can do exactly the things mentioned above but will happily wait their turn for more minutes
3-4 more guys who are redshirted or just happy towel wavers who fans cheer for to make a shot after we have a team blown out.
Why can't Fran make this happen?!?!
It is silly to judge college coaches only on tourney success. The dance is a complete crapshoot. I want a coach with a system consistent enough to get us there regularly and enough talent that we can win a few games. Ultimately this is reflected in the outcomes of the regular seasons. I would love to see our regular seasons get a little better so we don't face a top seed during the first weekend, but Fran is basically about 5 coin flip games away from this being our fifth straight dance so there is no way I am going to complain.
there might be coin flips in FB, but none in the BB so not sure I get your statement. If this team knew how to play defense, they would easily have 3 more wins (Ill, MN and Neb and maybe MD) which would likely have them in 4th place and pretty easily in the dance. Even 2 of those games would make a world of difference. So if you mean winning the close games, yes that can make a difference, but if feels like if the game is close, the Hawks will not get the job done.
I'm thinking 5 straight years of .500 ball, then let's talk. I'd be willing to believe that ain't gonna happen because if the incoming class is as good as it's supposed to be, and the kids here now stick around, Iowa is going to be really, really good.
But if we have all this talent stick around, and it's .500 say 2019-2020...the seat will warm up some. Do Fran's teams have warts? Yes. The above criticisms are valid. His teams seems to always have the same foibles good or bad, and the swoon late last year was depressing to watch - as well as their B10 tourney output.
And honestly...I am willing to give Fran a full 5 year mulligan. That's how far the program had sunk. Last year...I think we need to re-assess how good the talent was before we pass judgment. If you truly believe guys like Woody and Gesell should have been better as B10 players, you will have a less forgiving opinion.
And that's to me where last season falls. No knock on the kids, I thank them for their time here and they were awesome Hawks...but I just don't think Fran's classes up until this year were all that talented...and that is probably a result of him having issues over-coming recruits' perception of Iowa more than anything against his evaluation skills.
He took what he thought would be good fits or "projectable talents over time" combined with the best he could get, and it somewhat worked, just not to our expectations. It happens.
If the talent this year, and coming next year (and Wieskamp and his 2nd kid) are as good as advertised...great things coming. Therefore...see next year's class out till the end. This year...truly "the beginning" for me.
But if we have all this talent stick around, and it's .500 say 2019-2020...the seat will warm up some. Do Fran's teams have warts? Yes. The above criticisms are valid. His teams seems to always have the same foibles good or bad, and the swoon late last year was depressing to watch - as well as their B10 tourney output.
And honestly...I am willing to give Fran a full 5 year mulligan. That's how far the program had sunk. Last year...I think we need to re-assess how good the talent was before we pass judgment. If you truly believe guys like Woody and Gesell should have been better as B10 players, you will have a less forgiving opinion.
And that's to me where last season falls. No knock on the kids, I thank them for their time here and they were awesome Hawks...but I just don't think Fran's classes up until this year were all that talented...and that is probably a result of him having issues over-coming recruits' perception of Iowa more than anything against his evaluation skills.
He took what he thought would be good fits or "projectable talents over time" combined with the best he could get, and it somewhat worked, just not to our expectations. It happens.
If the talent this year, and coming next year (and Wieskamp and his 2nd kid) are as good as advertised...great things coming. Therefore...see next year's class out till the end. This year...truly "the beginning" for me.
Fran will be here no less than 7 years. And they will ALL be good to great years. Exciting at that. Love this brand of basketball. It is darn fun to watch.
I can see Fran retiring the year after Patrick graduates. He will be in his mid 60s by then. It would be a good age to retire. That said he is such a competitor I can see him continuing on. I guess we will see.
I can see Fran retiring the year after Patrick graduates. He will be in his mid 60s by then. It would be a good age to retire. That said he is such a competitor I can see him continuing on. I guess we will see.
I am still in Fran's corner. but expect the team next year to show growth. If not, I personally will start to be concerned about the program direction. IMO Jok is an obstacle this year for team play/ball movement.
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I agree that there is no reason for this team not to grow significantly in the next few years. If it doesn't, you have to start wondering. I'm not worried though. I think Graza and Wieskamp will be tremendous additions and players like Pemsl have talent, but need development and confidence. I take issue that Jok does not play within the team concept. With the accolades heading into the season he could easily have become a self-proclaimed shoot-at-will, but really has been an effective rebounder, deliberate shooter and not that bad defender.
My worry about the Jok "obstacle" as you mention is, is similar obstacles that seemed to occur with Uthoff, and Marble.
We want players like those talented "obstacles", so that whole thing is unacceptable. Unless this really isn't an obstacle, and related to something else that shows my lack of basketball / team building knowledge.
Hopefully, this just seems like an obstacle, and another "premium" player can exist on this team without throwing all the other players into stagnation.
Lute Olsen brought his Arizona team to CHA 20 - 25 years ago, and AZ won. After the game, he said he coached his team to "make the shooters drive, and the drivers shoot". Pretty basic stuff, but the inability of Iowa to recruit multiple guys on the floor that can do both effectively makes them easier to defend.
Basically, we have Moss and Baer that do that with some degree of effectiveness. Everyone else is pretty much a one-trick pony on offense.
Basically, we have Moss and Baer that do that with some degree of effectiveness. Everyone else is pretty much a one-trick pony on offense.
Fran is a solid coach but the B1G is ruthless.
My candid opinion is that iowa will be ascending in the league over the next few years. Let's look at the relevant programs over the next 4-5 years:
tOSU -- Matta's health is not good and they have taken a very significant step back from his prime years. Can they hire a great coach to replace him? Of course. They are the BSD of the B1G. Will they? Who knows if/when/who. Verdict for now: DESCENDING
IU -- Q: WTF is wrong with IU? A: Crean. Will they replace him? Probably not until the end of next season which gives any incoming coach at least a season to get up to speed. Verdict: DESCENDING for at least the next few years.
Wisconsin -- F%%^$#%$ those ^&*%^&$%^&&^U *()*&&*%^&%ers!!!! They win. I'd love to stick a descending tag on them but it looks like business as usual with Gard. Verdict: STABLE top-tier performer.
Maryland -- Good program with as good a recruiting base as any in the country. Verdict: STABLE top-tier performer.
Michigan -- I think Beilein is great coach but they haven't had great results since Burke left. Sans another 3* late bloomer phenom, I just don't see them as threat to be winning B1G titles anytime soon. Verdict: STABLE mid-league performer
MSU -- Izzo is getting old and may have lost a recruiting step or two. Still hard to count them out while he's there. VERDICT: STABLE top of league performer
Minnesota -- Looks like Pitino may be figuring it out and ready to hit his stride. Verdict: ASCENDING
Purdue -- Yaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnn. Verdict: STABLE top to mid tier performer.
PSU/Nebraska/Northwestern/Rutgers/Illinois -- WGAF? No one, that's who. Collins will likely replace coach K leaving Northwestern back where they started. PSU may work their way up to a stable mid-tier performer. Again, WGAF.
Which leaves Iowa....
The uptick in recruiting and solid coaching combined with the descent of some traditional league powers leaves iowa in a position to potentially make a big move in the league pecking order.
Verdict: ASCENDING
Will be an interesting program to watch over the next 2-4 years. If your recruits pan out (always a bigger question mark than anyone likes to admit), it will be a fun, fun, time to be an iowa fan. If not.... the view won't change much.
My candid opinion is that iowa will be ascending in the league over the next few years. Let's look at the relevant programs over the next 4-5 years:
tOSU -- Matta's health is not good and they have taken a very significant step back from his prime years. Can they hire a great coach to replace him? Of course. They are the BSD of the B1G. Will they? Who knows if/when/who. Verdict for now: DESCENDING
IU -- Q: WTF is wrong with IU? A: Crean. Will they replace him? Probably not until the end of next season which gives any incoming coach at least a season to get up to speed. Verdict: DESCENDING for at least the next few years.
Wisconsin -- F%%^$#%$ those ^&*%^&$%^&&^U *()*&&*%^&%ers!!!! They win. I'd love to stick a descending tag on them but it looks like business as usual with Gard. Verdict: STABLE top-tier performer.
Maryland -- Good program with as good a recruiting base as any in the country. Verdict: STABLE top-tier performer.
Michigan -- I think Beilein is great coach but they haven't had great results since Burke left. Sans another 3* late bloomer phenom, I just don't see them as threat to be winning B1G titles anytime soon. Verdict: STABLE mid-league performer
MSU -- Izzo is getting old and may have lost a recruiting step or two. Still hard to count them out while he's there. VERDICT: STABLE top of league performer
Minnesota -- Looks like Pitino may be figuring it out and ready to hit his stride. Verdict: ASCENDING
Purdue -- Yaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnn. Verdict: STABLE top to mid tier performer.
PSU/Nebraska/Northwestern/Rutgers/Illinois -- WGAF? No one, that's who. Collins will likely replace coach K leaving Northwestern back where they started. PSU may work their way up to a stable mid-tier performer. Again, WGAF.
Which leaves Iowa....
The uptick in recruiting and solid coaching combined with the descent of some traditional league powers leaves iowa in a position to potentially make a big move in the league pecking order.
Verdict: ASCENDING
Will be an interesting program to watch over the next 2-4 years. If your recruits pan out (always a bigger question mark than anyone likes to admit), it will be a fun, fun, time to be an iowa fan. If not.... the view won't change much.
Good post. I have to chuckle a little at you putting your own team in the wgaf category. I have to ask, what is the sentiment surrounding groce right now? Back for another year or time to part ways?
Fans hope Groce will be done in March. There is some opinion that our AD will keep him around another year to salvage a decent recruiting class.
I think that's insane. Especially considering that the jewel of the class -- Tilmon-- hasn't qualified yet and might not.
I said WGAF because that's what a decade of criminal negligence in managing a program does to fans. I'm done.
I'll always love college bb and B1G basketball but I'm done investing in an administration that stoped giving a sh*t 10 years ago.
F' 'em.
I think that's insane. Especially considering that the jewel of the class -- Tilmon-- hasn't qualified yet and might not.
I said WGAF because that's what a decade of criminal negligence in managing a program does to fans. I'm done.
I'll always love college bb and B1G basketball but I'm done investing in an administration that stoped giving a sh*t 10 years ago.
F' 'em.
Retarded post. You can be mad about where we are as a program, but Whitman was a breath of fresh air. You just like to bitch and moan, bro.
I think Connor will be solid and Patrick will be very good.
There will be allot of other good players on the team so im not sure the success or otherwise will depend on them all that much.
Weiskamp is the most important player coming in by far.
"A breath of fresh air" (with no tourney appearance for four straight years). Hold my purse while I swoon...
Both revenue sports are at nobody-cares-enough-to-laugh-anymore status. Basketball has been irrelevant on the national stage for almost an entire decade. Illinois is looking up at programs like Northwestern and Minnesota. That's reality. "A breath of fresh air" with no actual results is hogwash.
Adding those 3 players does nothing to address our guard issues. Nothing to address the lack of athleticism at the guard positions.
Sorry to bump this, but you are being too dumb: Whitman has been here for barely over a year, what does "no Tourney appearances for four straight years" even fvcking mean?!
That's quite all right, imo, it will be the only way some of these posters make an appearance this week.
Anyway, why don't you guys just admit it...only Sergio McClain can save your butts. He said so.
Thank you, this has been my stance since day one. Never seen Fran do one thing that Izzo. Self, Roy, or K, haven't done. They just have the cache to pull it off.
Wow, he should change his name to carnack! Does he actually get paid to drop those pearls on us rubes?
I'd like a taller pg, and that four looks a little heavy to me, i need a guy who's probably in the 240 range, tough to be quick at 260 unless you're a LeBron type athlete.
Cook is listed at 259lbs I believe and he looks just FINE to me........
Michigan State had far and away the most highly rated recruiting class coming into the B1G this year.
Holy shit...Cook looks plenty good. CP could lean out some but the kid knows how to use the junk in his trunk...who is slow on this team?
I remember this stupid thread who dragged it up!!! Even commented on it at the time how dumb it was.
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