I am going to say it: Regime change is needed at Iowa wrestling

[fan_4_life]

We at Oklahoma State are also frustrated, but not calling for John Smith's head. I think Cael has a massive advantage being in Pennsylvania that seems to have the best recruiting territory. Ohio is also very fertile, but that is even close to Pennsylvania. That worked out ok for Iowa and Oklahoma State for years, but when Cael went to PSU we both started losing those blue chip recruiting wars. I think both of our programs have geography problems.

A lot of these fans wanting to fire TnT are like Nebraska fans yearning for the days of Lord Osborne... the days of Dan Gable are gone, college athletics have changed so much since Gable dominated and the sport of wrestling has changed too. No longer can you outwork opponents and be better conditioned, it now comes down to skill and talent. Population shifts have left the Midwest with less talent to pick from and now you have the east coast building up their wrestling programs. It is what it is, and it is time to understand that change happens. It is no different than the people from small towns that can't figure out why no one wants to live there anymore, and schools close, there just ain't enough kids. Population shifts have altered everything when it comes to recruiting in all sports for teams in the Midwest/North. It is a numbers game and when Carl went to Pennsylvania, he knew what he was doing, it isn't hard to figure out fellas.

 

[fan_4_life]

BTW, Gable went 4 years between championships at one point as well.

and he only had 5 undefeated seasons... not discrediting what the man, myth and legend accomplished, but people need to understand that 3 or 4 titles in a 10 year period is what you should strive for, reeling off 9 in a row is not going to happen.

 

[theIowaHawk]

and he only had 5 undefeated seasons... not discrediting what the man, myth and legend accomplished, but people need to understand that 3 or 4 titles in a 10 year period is what you should strive for, reeling off 9 in a row is not going to happen.

And last year probably should have been the year to reclaim the title. It didn't happen unfortunately. If it had the talk would be very different, and yet they were right there to do so.

We aren't talking about being out of the race each year (like ISU, Minnesota, and even Oklahoma State recently)

 

[TarpHawk]

Gable's title-less streak was (also) due to recruiting. He wasn't suddenly a worse coach from 87-90. He just didn't have enough studs in the barn..nobody in the finals in 89...until he got TnT and Steiners, Zap, Reiland, Chlesvig, etc.

Brands isn't a worse coach than he was from 2008-10. He just doesn't have Metcalf and Borschel and McD. He's got guys ranked 4th, balanced with guys not ranked at all.

Two studs is the difference between "We're #1!" and "Regime change!" So the sky is only falling if things don't change. Let's see how next year plays out with Kemerer and Marinelli. But it's hardly a mysterious formula for success.

 

[Big Fall]

Gable's title-less streak was (also) due to recruiting. He wasn't suddenly a worse coach from 87-90. He just didn't have enough studs in the barn..nobody in the finals in 89...until he got TnT and Steiners, Zap, Reiland, Chlesvig, etc.

Brands isn't a worse coach than he was from 2008-10. He just doesn't have Metcalf and Borschel and McD. He's got guys ranked 4th, balanced with guys not ranked at all.

Two studs is the difference between "We're #1!" and "Regime change!" So the sky is only falling if things don't change. Let's see how next year plays out with Kemerer and Marinelli. But it's hardly a mysterious formula for success.

This is exactly right. Two more studs and we're golden. Put a Nolf, Nickal, Dieringer (all guys we recruited hard) in the lineup and we're much more formidable. Put two of those three in the lineup and we're heavy favorites. It's about talent. No one can build a program off of mid-level guys becoming AA's becuase it happens so infrequently and it's almost impossible to project. Why does one guy that's ranked in the 100-200 range become an AA and another barely sniffs qualifying for the tournament? Cael has built PSU off recruiting elite guys that are truly can't miss. And he's getting enough that when a kid doesn't pan out like expected (like a Gulibon) it's not as big of a deal.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

I have been biting my tongue for 2 years now and I am going to speak my mind. Guys have been blowing M*'s horn but not 1 of his guys has done squat yet. StJohn dropped his final year. Moore never did anything. Lofthouse was a low AA. Gambrall never did anything. Evans finished 6th, 3 times. Kelly, nothing. Cooper-no. Rhoads-no. Meyer will be a no. Brooks looked like a no last night. Those are his guys from 57 to 84. Wake up people, he may be a good talker but he was never a great wrestler and these guys have adopted his boring style. Time for a new assistant for the middle of our lineup.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Coaching change? I say... careful what you wish for. My opinion is they don't come much better than the Brands Bros. I think the perfect storm that hit college wrestling (Cael together with PA talent) gives many a distorted view a/o opinion on what's going on with their own programs. Fans see what Cael is doing and unfairly believe their coach should be able to do the same thing. You put a wrestling legend smack dab in the center of the best hs wrestling talent in the country and its just going to be hard to compete with that....for Brands or anyone else you're thinking you'd bring in.

 

[pinters]

My cousin Alex is pretty camera shy. He is cutting weight hey. Again let us hold off on selling our team (mates)out.
Coach has it the hardest right now. Lets let him coach.

 

[NLhawk62]

My cousin Alex is pretty camera shy. He is cutting weight hey. Again let us hold off on selling our team (mates)out.
Coach has it the hardest right now. Lets let him coach.

Meyer and Brooks going 184 and 197 next year?

 

[artradley]

If this is true, where were the complaints two weeks ago?

I was complaining and catching hell. Tarp has been complaining about recruiting since last season. Lots of people have been complaining about lack of development, lack of aggressiveness, and too many holes in the lineup.

I think last night, coming so late in the season, caused so much frustration that a lot of people, who have bit their tongues for fear of being labelled as "not real fans" decided to speak up at the same time. I've never liked TnT, but no way in hell was I ever going to admit it until somebody else brought it up.

 

[lookleft goright]

I have said this before and I will probably say it again. The Brands bros are making major impact on young men's lives. They are inspiring them and living and breathing to help them become successful. I know they have not won a title in a while, but they are doing a pretty good job of making the world a better place by grooming and developing young boys into fine young men.

It is certain that some things need to change if they are going to have multiple championship teams again. That we can agree on. My personal opinion is a philosophy change or style change or assistant coach change is what is needed. Why do I think that? Because that is the only way the Hawks are going to start landing the top notch recruits. Lets be real - Mark Hall did not even visit Iowa.

I do not think you will be able to find a better head coach then Tom Brands, unless he improves and changes (which just makes him an improved version of himself), which he seems willing to do. I think Tom has too much character and honor to fire his brother. I think Terry is too good at what he does to leave and I think he loves his job at Iowa. He seems to have found his purpose in life. Good for him!! That seems to leave M* on the hot seat, unless his recruits start to pan out.

 

[artradley]

What is your complaint about Cooper's match? Was it just the last scores? I thought he wrestled one of his better matches, against a guy that killed him the last time. He was right in it until the end. It was a weird match at the end of the 2nd.

I liked his effort. But I had hoped/expected he would keep it to a decision, but the difference in skill level looked to be tremendous. I haven't written him off, but last night didn't go as I expected.

Between Meyer, Clark, Brooks, and Cooper, he did disappoint me the least. But you can't seriously suggest that Brooks was the only match that was a disappointment.

 

[TarpHawk]

Coaching change? I say... careful what you wish for. My opinion is they don't come much better than the Brands Bros. I think the perfect storm that hit college wrestling (Cael together with PA talent) gives many a distorted view a/o opinion on what's going on with their own programs. Fans see what Cael is doing and unfairly believe their coach should be able to do the same thing. You put a wrestling legend smack dab in the center of the best hs wrestling talent in the country and its just going to be hard to compete with that....for Brands or anyone else you're thinking you'd bring in.

I'm against a coaching change, but I will disagree that Iowa's lack of success has anything to do with PSU and everything to do with the fact that Brands teams were scoring 100+ points a few years ago and now they're not. Proof: If PSU did not exist how many titles would we have won in the past 5 years?

 

[pinters]

Meyer and Brooks going 184 and 197 next year?

I dont know what the magic 8 ball says
Alex is a lot bigger than last year.
Get uhm Hawks

 

[Gusaford]

I have been biting my tongue for 2 years now and I am going to speak my mind. Guys have been blowing M*'s horn but not 1 of his guys has done squat yet. StJohn dropped his final year. Moore never did anything. Lofthouse was a low AA. Gambrall never did anything. Evans finished 6th, 3 times. Kelly, nothing. Cooper-no. Rhoads-no. Meyer will be a no. Brooks looked like a no last night. Those are his guys from 57 to 84. Wake up people, he may be a good talker but he was never a great wrestler and these guys have adopted his boring style. Time for a new assistant for the middle of our lineup.

I don't know the cause but the middle weights did not look very good last night, to state the obvious. As far as recruiting goes, NC State is one team that has done more with less. I don't believe any of Gantt, Jack, Roskopf or Renda was highly ranked coming out of high school. Only Renda was top 100, I think, and he was 61st. In each instance, these guys had been lower ranked coming out of high school than the Iowa guys they beat last night. NC State's coach is doing something right.

 

[hawknut]

It's not just hogh school recruiting. Depth at certain weights is a big issue. Having obvious holes in your lineup and not filling them with a transfer o

I have said this before and I will probably say it again. The Brands bros are making major impact on young men's lives. They are inspiring them and living and breathing to help them become successful. I know they have not won a title in a while, but they are doing a pretty good job of making the world a better place by grooming and developing young boys into fine young men.

Wut? Are you claiming that Brands does this better than any other coach. I disagree. Guys aren't going to speak up publically, but there are enough stories out there that bring this into doubt.

 

[mike tognetti]

Brooks was like the #2 or #3 guy at his weight coming out of H.S.
It's a bit unfair to say he hasn't panned out. Actually, really unfair.
He's one of our few bonus point getters. He was hurt last year right before the NCAAs were he went up against Dean and gave him all he could handle.
This year, he beat Zillmer at Midlands. He also teched Chandler Rogers to give us the win at the Grapple on the Gridiron. Now, he's hurt again and people will call him a bust once he fails to AA at NCAAs due to his injuries.
He's a fighter and a beast when he's healthy. Last night, he wasn't either one.

It was Jordan Rogers that he teched, which a few other people have beat him bad. Boyd moved up to 197 and gave your stud a run for his money. Iowa's coaches are really really good, the problem seems you peak to early (or burnout by end of season) and your fans feel every wrestler you put out there can be a NC (Grothus} or high AA. The wrestling landscape has changed, doesn't mean anything to a top recruit how many people are in the stands, it's who is the best fit for the recruit and how much scholarship money that they are going to get. As for OSU, were behind PSU in recruiting just like you, also same as you, our coaches are working there asses off to change that.

 

[ih8iast8]

I have been biting my tongue for 2 years now and I am going to speak my mind. Guys have been blowing M*'s horn but not 1 of his guys has done squat yet. StJohn dropped his final year. Moore never did anything. Lofthouse was a low AA. Gambrall never did anything. Evans finished 6th, 3 times. Kelly, nothing. Cooper-no. Rhoads-no. Meyer will be a no. Brooks looked like a no last night. Those are his guys from 57 to 84. Wake up people, he may be a good talker but he was never a great wrestler and these guys have adopted his boring style. Time for a new assistant for the middle of our lineup.

Stj, moore, lofthouse, gambrall, moore, evans & kelly certainly weren't recruited by morningstar. He was probably at Wisconsin when Rhoades was recruited. So No, they were not his guys. I agree he may not have improved them but he isn't the common denominator you are painting him to be.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Stj, moore, lofthouse, gambrall, moore, evans & kelly certainly weren't recruited by morningstar. He was probably at Wisconsin when Rhoades was recruited. So No, they were not his guys. I agree he may not have improved them but he isn't the common denominator you are painting him to be.

He is the guy that rolled with them every day in practice and not one of them improved. They all adopted his boring, tie up the whole match and try to get one takedown at the end to win it,style. He wasn't Iowa style and neither are his guys. People say he is a good recruiter, I would take Brent, Tony or Matt over him any day.

 

[SansSouci]

Wrestling is a year long painful grind and now you have a coach who is more intense than the Cuban missle crisis telling you to get to your offense and get bonus points every match. Losing is not an option and you always could have done more. I like coaches like that because that's what I grew up with and I personally share that philosophy for myself. Kids don't want or need that these days. Unless you're TG it can't be fun.

Carl talks about having fun every match and lets his kids wrestle their own styles. No ****ing collar ties and hanging on the head for every one of his wrestlers. Ties don't work if you can't gain an advantage on your offense. Works fine for the smaller, faster guys, but is boring and hasn't worked for Iowa's middle weights. Iowa doesn't have the athletes for either coaches style in the uppers. They are coming though.

Iowa's variables for recruiting are small. What are they and what is chasing them off?

Askren is right.

With condition these days kids aren't gassing in the third from the Iowa style. Bury it and work and develop the kid's own style and you can still push scoring points. Everyone does, it's not rocket surgery.

New recruiting and upper weight coaches is all that's needed.

 

[dhm47]

I have been biting my tongue for 2 years now and I am going to speak my mind. Guys have been blowing M*'s horn but not 1 of his guys has done squat yet. StJohn dropped his final year. Moore never did anything. Lofthouse was a low AA. Gambrall never did anything. Evans finished 6th, 3 times. Kelly, nothing. Cooper-no. Rhoads-no. Meyer will be a no. Brooks looked like a no last night. Those are his guys from 57 to 84. Wake up people, he may be a good talker but he was never a great wrestler and these guys have adopted his boring style. Time for a new assistant for the middle of our lineup.

But why can't TnT see it? Again nothing personal against M*, probably a great kid. However we need a mean-ass tough bull in our china shop, and we need him quickly!

 

[pumpdog20]

Again, the only thing Brands could maybe do differently is not spread the scholly money so thin. Use some money to land a stud or two.

But as WDM Hawk has mentioned, the upcoming recruits, Kem, Marinelli, Meija, JRent, and possibly Lee appear to be the right track. Kem and Marinelli added to a lineup with GIlman, Clark, and Sorensen next year looks awfully exciting.

 

[TarpHawk]

Wrestling is a year long painful grind and now you have a coach who is more intense than the Cuban missle crisis telling you to get to your offense and get bonus points every match. Losing is not an option and you always could have done more. I like coaches like that because that's what I grew up with and I personally share that philosophy for myself. Kids don't want or need that these days. Unless you're TG it can't be fun.

Carl talks about having fun every match and lets his kids wrestle their own styles. No ****ing collar ties and hanging on the head for every one of his wrestlers. Ties don't work if you can't gain an advantage on your offense. Works fine for the smaller, faster guys, but is boring and hasn't worked for Iowa's middle weights. Iowa doesn't have the athletes for either coaches style in the uppers. They are coming though.

Iowa's variables for recruiting are small. What are they and what is chasing them off?

Askren is right.

With condition these days kids aren't gassing in the third from the Iowa style. Bury it and work and develop the kid's own style and you can still push scoring points. Everyone does, it's not rocket surgery.

New recruiting and upper weight coaches is all that's needed.

Rocket surgery? I feel there's a mixed metaphor there.

 

[pumpdog20]

Also, I like M* and think his recruiting is coming along nicely. I personally think where we failed in the last couple of years is at the S&C program.

 

[artradley]

Rocket surgery? I feel there's a mixed metaphor there.

I think that was intentional. SS has a wry sense of humor.

 

[artradley]

Again, the only thing Brands could maybe do differently is not spread the scholly money so thin. Use some money to land a stud or two.

But as WDM Hawk has mentioned, the upcoming recruits, Kem, Marinelli, Meija, JRent, and possibly Lee appear to be the right track. Kem and Marinelli added to a lineup with GIlman, Clark, and Sorensen next year looks awfully exciting.

Does anybody have reason to believe Lee will come here, other than the fact that we want him?

 

[MVPFAN]

It's not just hogh school recruiting. Depth at certain weights is a big issue. Having obvious holes in your lineup and not filling them with a transfer o


Wut? Are you claiming that Brands does this better than any other coach. I disagree. Guys aren't going to speak up publically, but there are enough stories out there that bring this into doubt.

I agree, the philosophy of bringing in a bunch of guys and then letting the lineup sort itself out has not been very good often leaving too many holes. At times weights have not been addressed on schedule and there have been times where we could have been planning way ahead to fill needs but end up with multiple guys at the same weight and then too little time is left to move one and have them be effective. Grothus would be a lot happier today if he had hit the weights hard prior to his Junior year and became an energetic 157 vs an emaciated 141.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Does anybody have reason to believe Lee will come here, other than the fact that we want him?

No.. None. But to be fair, no other fanbase has reason to believe he will end up at their school either.

 

[pumpdog20]

Does anybody have reason to believe Lee will come here, other than the fact that we want him?

A guy can dream.

 

[Eagle526]

Meyer and Brooks going 184 and 197 next year?

What would make you think that. To me that has been the biggest problem. Starters are never allowed to change weights. If you are looking for a reason why guys do not improve after their sophomore year, it is because theyvare sucking too much weight, and peter out at the end of the year.

 

[lionlover]

Jeez dude, we're talking about Iowa wrestling here. People who don't even follow the sport think Iowa wrestling wins national championships every year. No team in college athletics is more synonymous to their respective sport than Iowa is to college wrestling.

Amazing how our wrestling fans expect to win while the football and basketball fans wait to lose the big game. Hopefully that loser's attitude isn't gravitating towards the wrestling program now.

I think Oklahoma State can argue that claim.

 

[lionlover]

This is exactly right. Two more studs and we're golden. Put a Nolf, Nickal, Dieringer (all guys we recruited hard) in the lineup and we're much more formidable. Put two of those three in the lineup and we're heavy favorites. It's about talent. No one can build a program off of mid-level guys becoming AA's becuase it happens so infrequently and it's almost impossible to project. Why does one guy that's ranked in the 100-200 range become an AA and another barely sniffs qualifying for the tournament? Cael has built PSU off recruiting elite guys that are truly can't miss. And he's getting enough that when a kid doesn't pan out like expected (like a Gulibon) it's not as big of a deal.

My God, if Cael could only coach, he could really do some special things at PSU!

 

[tuggerjug]

At some point TnT need to evolve. Just look at the post match press conferences that Tom does vs Cael's. First you'll see that Cael has his kids at his side and he's generally joking around with them - atmosphere is fun. Tom is alone and combative and portrays a drill
sergeant. I think that is the difference in recruiting - wrestling is hard enough at the elite level - why not go to coach that is more decorated as wrestler and coach and has created a fun atmosphere that promotes scoring points and not trying to "break your opponent".

 

[JohnBasedow]

What would make you think that. To me that has been the biggest problem. Starters are never allowed to change weights. If you are looking for a reason why guys do not improve after their sophomore year, it is because theyvare sucking too much weight, and peter out at the end of the year.

Unfortunately I agree with this.

 

[rafferty06]

Maybe we need to take lessons from Harbaugh. Let's find a couple of #1 rated recruits and then hire their dads as 4 years assistant coaches? Seems to work in other sports

 

[rossel 33]

My God, if Cael could only coach, he could really do some special things at PSU!

-----

I'll bet Cael could've turned Pico into a good 149#er... maybe even as good as Retherford.

 

[WildTurk]

Crazy how some of these posters, that havent posted all season, wait until something bad happens and come trash the program. Step back from the ledge people

 

[Onceafish]

-----

I'll bet Cael could've turned Pico into a good 149#er... maybe even as good as Retherford.

And the Brands brothers could have turned him into Mike Evans?

 

[Hawkirish]

At some point TnT need to evolve. Just look at the post match press conferences that Tom does vs Cael's. First you'll see that Cael has his kids at his side and he's generally joking around with them - atmosphere is fun. Tom is alone and combative and portrays a drill
sergeant. I think that is the difference in recruiting - wrestling is hard enough at the elite level - why not go to coach that is more decorated as wrestler and coach and has created a fun atmosphere that promotes scoring points and not trying to "break your opponent".

That's a great first post "Hawkeye" fan. Carl's guys have more fun and score points. My only question - why didn't he win a championship at ISU? Hmm - little hint.... It's the jimmys and the joes.

 

[Jackhawk87]

That's a great first post "Hawkeye" fan. Carl's guys have more fun and score points. My only question - why didn't he win a championship at ISU? Hmm - little hint.... It's the jimmys and the joes.

Umm, I don't believe wrestling was started as a real sport until Carl went to PSU. History starts then. Don't you read these boards enough to know that??​