I am going to say it: Regime change is needed at Iowa wrestling

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

If tnt would actually start true FR - and RS when needed - i think some of the hot dog wrestlers would actually consider Iowa over some other schools.

for example - why would someone like Pico come to Iowa to ride the pine for 1 season - when he can beat anyone in the room by MDs every day

 

[Azchief32]

If tnt would actually start true FR - and RS when needed - i think some of the hot dog wrestlers would actually consider Iowa over some other schools.

for example - why would someone like Pico come to Iowa to ride the pine for 1 season - when he can beat anyone in the room by MDs every day

They would with the right redshirt. For example, had Nolf been a freshman at Iowa last year, I bet he would have started.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

They would with the right redshirt. For example, had Nolf been a freshman at Iowa last year, I bet he would have started.

no

 

[Azchief32]

no

Yup. Nolf finished second at the Scuffle giving Green a good battle in the finals. Considering we had a hole at 157 last year and Nolf's points (he would have AA'd) would have put us over the top? We just haven't had that individual come in and dominate. Metcalf was the closest but Brands held back the whole team at Vag Tech.

If Marinelli comes in and dominates next year, he is in the lineup.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

Yup. Nolf finished second at the Scuffle giving Green a good battle in the finals. Considering we had a hole at 157 last year and Nolf's points (he would have AA'd) would have put us over the top? We just haven't had that individual come in and dominate. Metcalf was the closest but Brands held back the whole team at Vag Tech.

If Marinelli comes in and dominates next year, he is in the lineup.

my point was about true fr wrestling in the starting lineup and selling that point to the recruits and their parents - i think burak did start as a tr fr with much hesitation/consideration (i actually thought this season would be the one to hold him back for the big push next spring)

anyway - if alex is that good - i do hope he is in the line up if that make strategic sense. and not neglected for some concrete stance to never wrestle tr fr

 

[Azchief32]

my point was about true fr wrestling in the starting lineup and selling that point to the recruits and their parents - i think burak did start as a tr fr with much hesitation/consideration (i actually thought this season would be the one to hold him back for the big push next spring)

anyway - if alex is that good - i do hope he is in the line up if that make strategic sense. and not neglected for some concrete stance to never wrestle tr fr

I kind of wish they had done that as well. We would have had 141 a little bit more sturdy, Sorensen/Kem at 149/157 and Marinelli at 165 if he comes in and kills it. A solid lineup from top to bottom to make a good run. BTW, Burak spent the year after HS at Colorado Springs so he wasn't true freshman in the traditional sense. I just don't think Brands is the micromanager/disciplinarian guy he is made out to be. I think if a freshman is close with a seasoned guy, he'll shirt him. BTW, Kemdawg is actually closer to 157 than 149 than Sorensen from what I hear. It was tough for him to make 49 this year. He hangs with everybody in the room but his toughest out for some reason? Cooper.

 

[Cal98]

If tnt would actually start true FR - and RS when needed - i think some of the hot dog wrestlers would actually consider Iowa over some other schools.

for example - why would someone like Pico come to Iowa to ride the pine for 1 season - when he can beat anyone in the room by MDs every day

Can you provide some examples of true freshmen who should have wrestled under Brands?

 

[Kwoodhawk]

You all realize that if either Nolf or Nickal had come to Iowa.................

this thread and others like it would NOT exist.

And Tarp could sleep at night again.............

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Kittylion, what national titles did the great CS win at Iowa State? He had three years as head coach, never won a national championship while a head coach and had "TWO" individual champions in three years. What a great job of coaching up your athletes. He new he couldn't get it done at Iowa State, even though he was the greatest coach in America. So what should he do. Dump the college team that helped him win 4 titles and go to Penn State where he could BUY, I mean recruit the cream of the crop wrestlers. Sounds a lot like Phil Jackson who just created Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. If you are in an area where you can get 10 top rated recruits, then you do have a fairly good chance to be a Great coach. He's good but not God....If he was such a great coach why did he put his tail between his legs last year and red shirt most of his team? A great coach would have taken a couple of mid scale recruits and made his team a winner, not a winner IMO

Cael couldn't get it done at ISU?? As a green twenty something coach, he won 3 conference titles over the mighty Cowboys, qualified all 30 of his guys for nationals and placed 2,5,3. What are Tom Brands head coaching credentials at that age? Aren't those results very similar to Iowa's over the past 5 years?

It's not just about geography. Sanderson is winning the national recruiting war. Hall (MN), Suriano (NJ), Manville (VA), Nickal (TX), Nevills (CA). Sure it helps being located in PA, but don't delude yourself into thinking Sanderson is limited to only getting PA recruits.

It was smart to redshirt those guys; it's called strategic thinking, obviously a foreign concept to you. I'm sure there are going to be a lot of Hawk fans that wish Brands redshirted Burak for next year.

 

[ad1986]

When is the black flag dropping on the Flying Troll?

 

[Greco Gilligan]

Sometimes the truth cuts deeper than the sharpest knife. On that thought I think that I will cut me some orange slices for breakfast - flown in fresh from Iowa.

 

[Hawkirish]

Sometimes the truth cuts deeper than the sharpest knife. On that thought I think that I will cut me some orange slices for breakfast - flown in fresh from Iowa.

If you are going to troll us could you please post something interesting or just a little bit humorous? A couple lion fans post some stuff that we may not agree with but are valid points or are somewhat funny. With you we get the village idiot. I'm going to bet the decent lion fans also think you are not very entertaining and cringe when you post. I hope you enjoy someone eating your oranges this morning ginger.

 

[Azchief32]

Sometimes the truth cuts deeper than the sharpest knife. On that thought I think that I will cut me some orange slices for breakfast - flown in fresh from Iowa.

This really makes no sense as a put down...unless you are Hannibal Lecter.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

This really makes no sense as a put down...unless you are Hannibal Lecter.

Then they would be oranges flown in from the groves of Andalusia - sounds fancier for an epicure like Lecter

 

[lionlover]

Kittylion, what national titles did the great CS win at Iowa State? He had three years as head coach, never won a national championship while a head coach and had "TWO" individual champions in three years. What a great job of coaching up your athletes. He new he couldn't get it done at Iowa State, even though he was the greatest coach in America. So what should he do. Dump the college team that helped him win 4 titles and go to Penn State where he could BUY, I mean recruit the cream of the crop wrestlers. Sounds a lot like Phil Jackson who just created Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. If you are in an area where you can get 10 top rated recruits, then you do have a fairly good chance to be a Great coach. He's good but not God....If he was such a great coach why did he put his tail between his legs last year and red shirt most of his team? A great coach would have taken a couple of mid scale recruits and made his team a winner, not a winner IMO

So, to use your logic and analogy outside of wrestling, I guess you are saying Nick Saban couldn't really coach so he left Michigan State? You are right, Cael ain't God. But he is a lot better coach than you or most others give him credit for being.

 

[lionlover]

"Look, I'm not saying Cael doesn't develop wrestlers or that he isn't a good coach".

I give you credit for that. I just get sick of anyone that doesn't give him credit for his coaching. You are right that location has helped his success. But, he seized the opportunity. Want to call him an opportunist because he left ISU? I am OK with that characterization too.

I love hearing all the whining here about Cael leaving ISU. Some of you are just not realists. You're more fans than realists. How many of you would turn down a better job opportunity that would pay you more and advance your professional aspirations? Sure, some of you will post that you would never do this , but you are among the minority. Most would if you are making an honest business decision.

Cael said that he was making the move to create a dynasty. He hasn't done it yet, but you can't deny he is on the path to doing what he said he would do.

 

[Golic55]

Will only get worse if you do not ban these whiny panty wetters.
McAndrew would have done it years ago.

 

[hawkster03]

PSU wrestling is basically Alabama football right now. They both have a ton of momentum, great coaching, and lastly they have easy access to some of the top recruits in the nation. When you have all those things you can basically pick and choose who you want. Saban and Sanderson have it "easy" right now and I'm sure they aren't going anywhere any time soon.

SO, the Hawks need some type of a "spark". Some type of change is needed. Some type of excitement needs to happen so recruits have one more reason to become a Hawkeye. Call it a tipping point. Getting rid of TNT I don't think is going to provide the necessary "spark" as I can't think of any good replacement.

Probably need a stud wrestler to come in as an assistant coach. Need some new blood in the practice room, non-Hawkeye blood even. I'm not an expert on the rules of how many coaches you can have but I do know money rules almost everything so maybe it's not even feasible.

 

[wasdt21]

do you think cael cares what is said about his coaching on an iowa message board. get over it.i come here to see whats going on with iowa wrestling not cael and his joy boys.

 

[raslen007]

Kittylion, what national titles did the great CS win at Iowa State? He had three years as head coach, never won a national championship while a head coach and had "TWO" individual champions in three years. What a great job of coaching up your athletes. He new he couldn't get it done at Iowa State, even though he was the greatest coach in America. So what should he do. Dump the college team that helped him win 4 titles and go to Penn State where he could BUY, I mean recruit the cream of the crop wrestlers. Sounds a lot like Phil Jackson who just created Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. If you are in an area where you can get 10 top rated recruits, then you do have a fairly good chance to be a Great coach. He's good but not God....If he was such a great coach why did he put his tail between his legs last year and red shirt most of his team? A great coach would have taken a couple of mid scale recruits and made his team a winner, not a winner IMO

Just wondering where a coach like Saban would fall within this type of discussion.

 

[whejoe]

Just wondering where a coach like Saban would fall within this type of discussion.

Saban couldn't get it done at MSU and didn't win a title until going to LSU. However, I think most people would agree that Saban is a heck of a coach. I think Cael is a heck of a coach as well. I think it's silly to keep using Cael's time at ISU as a example to say he's not a great coach.

 

[zwick99]

It's not just about geography. Sanderson is winning the national recruiting war. Hall (MN), Suriano (NJ), Manville (VA), Nickal (TX), Nevills (CA). Sure it helps being located in PA, but don't delude yourself into thinking Sanderson is limited to only getting PA recruits.
.

tRue but not as much as you make it out to be. Suriano actually practices in Pa and Manville went to a prep school in pa.

 

[Onceafish]

It all comes down to location and logistics bro...I bet you think that the Saudis are filthy rich because they are smart, amiright?

Just by moving to State College, Cael was able to change the location and logistics? He really does have super powers!

Penn State had one title in their first 100 years of wrestling (which you are happy to point out when it's convenient). They had four in five years after Sanderson arrived. How do "location and logistics" explain that?

 

[Onceafish]

tRue but not as much as you make it out to be. Suriano actually practices in Pa and Manville went to a prep school in pa.

Manville went to prep school in New Jersey until this year. That's where he was when he committed to Penn State.

Suriano's high school and club are both located in NJ, not all that close to the PA line. What makes you think he practices in PA?

 

[GoHawks2009]

This is not a rash statement. We have seen Iowa do this now for half a dozen years. We know what March will bring. I hope I have to eat crow, but I am just going by facts on the ground. I love Brands as a wrestler and human being, but I would throw a "too good to say no" offer at Cael. I know I will get roasted for that. I'm just sick of the yearly March Meltdown.

You'll get roasted for having what is clearly an original thought and at no point in time in the last 3-4 years was uttered by anyone else on this message board or any other Iowa wrestling message board..............................

Apparently, Iowa fans have it out for people who like to think outside the box and bring fresh and original, never-heard-before ideas about the coaching staffs of the sports teams we root for.

So.....yep.

 

[Azchief32]

Just by moving to State College, Cael was able to change the location and logistics? He really does have super powers!

Penn State had one title in their first 100 years of wrestling (which you are happy to point out when it's convenient). They had four in five years after Sanderson arrived. How do "location and logistics" explain that?

Oh...so western PA isn't a hot spot for recruiting? Just one club put like 15 guys into D1 colleges in one year.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Brands and Iowa are doing well. 25,33,49 are right there with the best. I don't think a coaching change is needed at all. What PSU is doing is surreal. If Cael was not able to get those transfers,just like Brands did with VT guys, they would not be where they are now! Pretty much invincible. The best coaching and development I have seen is with OSU. Winning a title last year,and bringing a team that was piss poor,to a perennial top 5-10 team is outstanding. Still,keep Brands. Likely be top six for years to come. Solid and certainly respectful.

 

[nitlion6]

You are right too! A fact is a fact. Sunderland coached Quentin up to be an All American and Sanderson coached him up to be a National Champion.

Just to get it right. Perry is the one who coached him up as a true freshman.

 

[TarpHawk]

PSU wrestling is basically Alabama football right now. They both have a ton of momentum, great coaching, and lastly they have easy access to some of the top recruits in the nation. When you have all those things you can basically pick and choose who you want. Saban and Sanderson have it "easy" right now and I'm sure they aren't going anywhere any time soon.

SO, the Hawks need some type of a "spark". Some type of change is needed. Some type of excitement needs to happen so recruits have one more reason to become a Hawkeye. Call it a tipping point. Getting rid of TNT I don't think is going to provide the necessary "spark" as I can't think of any good replacement.

Probably need a stud wrestler to come in as an assistant coach. Need some new blood in the practice room, non-Hawkeye blood even. I'm not an expert on the rules of how many coaches you can have but I do know money rules almost everything so maybe it's not even feasible.

The spark is winning an NCAA title.

Put Gilman, Clark, Sorensen, Kemerer, Marinelli, and Stoll in the finals next year and all the angst goes away.

 

[nitlion6]

Again, what did this great coach do at Iowa State and a below average recruiting area. Nothing! Good coach but it still helps to be in a fabulous recruiting area to kiss ass, i mean babies.

His Iowa State teams performed on par with the past 5 Iowa Hawkeye teams.
The continued attempts to lessen Cael's accomplishments as a coach by focusing on the first three years of his career is pretty much intellectually empty. The first three years were not exactly epic fails, and certainly not bad compared to the first 3 years of Coach Brands' career.

 

[BDB57]

I like hawkster's and whejoe's comparisons of Saban and Cael's situations. Certainly Saban had his hands full trying to out recruit both Notre Dame and Michigan. And he made the right decision for him and his family. Cael had strong ties to Iowa State but I believe the rumored lack of support from the administration may have weighed just as much on his decision to leave as did the resources and recruiting opportunities at Penn State.

I admit that as a sport's fan, I viewed both Brands and Saban's leaving jobs early much the way the Hawks view Cael. But if you look closer to their situations without considering how it affect your team then it's easier to understand their motives.

 

[Stanley75]

Keep TnT and get a super recruiter. Problem solved.

 

[BDB57]

I will add my 2 cents on regime change while I have the keyboard fired up. I seriously doubt you would have a hard time finding any coach(s) that are more knowledgable and have as much invested as T&T.

I have not been inside your wrestling facilities, but I assume they are equivalent to other top programs. Fan and institutional support appear unrivaled. Location is not helpful being so far from so many of the hotbeds of HS wrestling but not a changeable item. I would think having a predominately Iowa staff precludes new ideas and a change there would be much more likely to make an impact.

Please no poaching DT!

 

[zwick99]

Manville went to prep school in New Jersey until this year. That's where he was when he committed to Penn State.

Suriano's high school and club are both located in NJ, not all that close to the PA line. What makes you think he practices in PA?

Manville also went to Wyoming Seminary which is in Pa. Blair is in Phillipsburg which is about 100yds from Easton Pa. I 80 runs from Central Pa(PSU) right through Easton and across the bridge to Phillipsburg. Is a two hour drive, national recruiting?


I read that Suriano practices somewhere in the Lehigh Valley. That is right over the same bridge.

 

[#10Hawk]

Oh...so western PA isn't a hot spot for recruiting? Just one club put like 15 guys into D1 colleges in one year.

Not to mention scholarships and perks; it's all about location and logistics...

 

[lionlover]

Oh...so western PA isn't a hot spot for recruiting? Just one club put like 15 guys into D1 colleges in one year.

Why isn't Pitt fielding a top 5/10 team if WPA is so loaded?

 

[LaxHawk174]

Why isn't Pitt fielding a top 5/10 team if WPA is so loaded?

They don't have the prestigious coaching staff to bring in the stud recruits and/or develop them.

 

[Azchief32]

Why isn't Pitt fielding a top 5/10 team if WPA is so loaded?

You know better LL and you know what I think about Cael. But most people have never heard of Jason Peters. He graduated from East Stroudsberg. Cael is a big name...Olympic champ and 4 timer. Big names are going to get big recruits no matter where they are at. Being close to western PA, NJ etc...hell, Suriano's house is closer to State College than Gilman's was to IC...and Gilman is an Iowa boy, is a sizable advantage. Why can't you just admit that being close to western PA is a great location? You guys are always bragging about PA high school wrestling except when it comes to Cael having a recruiting advantage. Then no, Cael all of a sudden farts lucky charms and casts magical spells on mediocre wrestlers to be great...nothing to see here.

 

[lionlover]

You know better LL and you know what I think about Cael. But most people have never heard of Jason Peters. He graduated from East Stroudsberg. Cael is a big name...Olympic champ and 4 timer. Big names are going to get big recruits no matter where they are at. Being close to western PA, NJ etc...hell, Suriano's house is closer to State College than Gilman's was to IC...and Gilman is an Iowa boy, is a sizable advantage. Why can't you just admit that being close to western PA is a great location? You guys are always bragging about PA high school wrestling except when it comes to Cael having a recruiting advantage. Then no, Cael all of a sudden farts lucky charms and casts magical spells on mediocre wrestlers to be great...nothing to see here.

Being close to WPA is a great location. Cael does have a recruiting advantage. I never claimed otherwise. But, like you said, there is more to it than just logistics.

 

[pinters]

Why dont we all re-ask Jimmy G if he shoulda went to Iowa.