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I am going to say it: Regime change is needed at Iowa wrestling

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Wrestling is a year long painful grind and now you have a coach who is more intense than the Cuban missle crisis telling you to get to your offense and get bonus points every match. Losing is not an option and you always could have done more. I like coaches like that because that's what I grew up with and I personally share that philosophy for myself. Kids don't want or need that these days. Unless you're TG it can't be fun.

Carl talks about having fun every match and lets his kids wrestle their own styles. No ****ing collar ties and hanging on the head for every one of his wrestlers. Ties don't work if you can't gain an advantage on your offense. Works fine for the smaller, faster guys, but is boring and hasn't worked for Iowa's middle weights. Iowa doesn't have the athletes for either coaches style in the uppers. They are coming though.

Iowa's variables for recruiting are small. What are they and what is chasing them off?

Askren is right.

With condition these days kids aren't gassing in the third from the Iowa style. Bury it and work and develop the kid's own style and you can still push scoring points. Everyone does, it's not rocket surgery.

New recruiting and upper weight coaches is all that's needed.

I agree.

I think we need to recruit kids that can go up in weight in time, not down. Quickness translates up, not down. Plus cutting isn't fun.

We need to teach how to turn guys from top. Seems lost on 80% of our lineups anymore. Why in the world cant Gilman or Sorenson turn more guys.

We need a good middle weight coach. Casey Cunningham is as good as it gets and M* cant even come close to what Casey is doing with the talent Cael hands him.

If you really want to break down whos doing the real coaching. PSU's major power comes from 149-184 since Cael took over. Narrow it down another peg on the microscope 157-174 is the main pwer source . Taylor, Brown, Ruth, Nolf, Nickel.

At the same time how does that compare to Cody sandersons 125-141's guys over that span?
Or Caels 184-HWT.

I think its safe to say Casey Cunningham is what what running that practice rooms. Cael just needs to keep knocking on doors, kissing babies and and selling recruits.

Iowa has neither a top notch Gold medalist salesman nor a top notch middle weight coach. We have a gold medalist who doesn't like to travel to recruit and thinks the top kids should be begging him to go there.
 
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How about we discuss reality? Do you remember Grant Gambrall's "Dominating 6 to 0 win" over Quentin Wright in the HS All Star match? That match wasn't even close.

Maybe this link will help you: https://www.thepredicament.com/history/fa/articles/08dreamteam.asp

Compare their careers in college. It's only one data point. But at least it's real. @rossel 33

Your right about that, a fact is a fact. Another fact is Wright was an All American as a true freshman under Coach Sunderland. Look at all the great coaching Sunderland did with that kid. All Cael did was takeover a returning AA.
 
I agree.

I think we need to recruit kids that can go up in weight in time, not down. Quickness translates up, not down. Plus cutting isn't fun.

We need to teach how to turn guys from top. Seems lost on 80% of our lineups anymore. Why in the world cant Gilman or Sorenson turn more guys.

We need a good middle weight coach. Casey Cunningham is as good as it gets and M* cant even come close to what Casey is doing with the talent Cael hands him.

If you really want to break down whos doing the real coaching. PSU's major power comes from 149-184 since Cael took over. Narrow it down another peg on the microscope 157-174 is the main pwer source . Taylor, Brown, Ruth, Nolf, Nickel.

At the same time how does that compare to Cody sandersons 125-141's guys over that span?
Or Caels 184-HWT.

I think its safe to say Casey Cunningham is what what running that practice rooms. Cael just needs to keep knocking on doors, kissing babies and and selling recruits.

Iowa has neither a top notch Gold medalist salesman nor a top notch middle weight coach. We have a gold medalist who doesn't like to travel to recruit and thinks the top kids should be begging him to go there.


Cunningham is a guy teams should be throwing money at to be their coach!
 
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Your right about that, a fact is a fact. Another fact is Wright was an All American as a true freshman under Coach Sunderland. Look at all the great coaching Sunderland did with that kid. All Cael did was takeover a returning AA.

You are right too! A fact is a fact. Sunderland coached Quentin up to be an All American and Sanderson coached him up to be a National Champion.
 
Unfortunately I agree with this.

Agree. Our wrestlers rarely move up weight classes during their college careers. In other programs it is not uncommon for wrestlers to move up one or two classes. Some of our guys look completely starved, frail and weak by the end of their careers (e.g. St. John and McDonough).
 
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How about we discuss reality? Do you remember Grant Gambrall's "Dominating 6 to 0 win" over Quentin Wright in the HS All Star match? That match wasn't even close.

Maybe this link will help you: https://www.thepredicament.com/history/fa/articles/08dreamteam.asp

Compare their careers in college. It's only one data point. But at least it's real. @rossel 33
-----

What is real is Q was a superstar coming out of HS.

from PSU's own site:

<<A five-star recruit according to Intermat, the national wrestling source has Wright tabbed as the No. 12 overall recruit (regardless of weight) in the entire nation and top three at either 160 or 171. His high school accolades are outstanding. As stated, he claimed the PIAA AAA state title last year and completed his junior campaign with a perfect 41-0 record. A year before, he was a PIAA Runner-Up. Wright also claimed the 2006 Beast of the Championship and was a Cadet Freestyle All-American.

As a high school junior, Wright competed in a number of collegiate level open tournaments, including a fifth place finish at last year's Nittany Lion Open and the title at the Millersville Invitational. >>

Q wrestled for PSU as a true fr. In a dual that year he lost to #1 ranked Luke of Mich by 6-4. He was B10 runnerup, and entered ncaa tournament as the #11 seed. He finished well above that, reaching AA status (6th place).

All that was before Cael arrived.

He took a RS year following that true fr year.

So puh- leez .... like so many other PSU recruits, Q was very much an elite blue chip prospect coming out of HS. Using Q as an example of Cael making a silk purse from a sow's ear isn't really all that accurate.
 
Some guys move up, some don't. St John didn't go to 65 because of DT. Evans probably could have but the Brooks was there at the end.
 
But why can't TnT see it? Again nothing personal against M*, probably a great kid. However we need a mean-ass tough bull in our china shop, and we need him quickly!
How do we know hes not? Just because he doesn't yell and scream during meets doesn't mean hes lazy or not intense in the room. Also just because he wrestled defensively doesn't mean he cant coach offense does it? Chuck Long was a QB but coached defense at times. Don't you think he would have wanted to be good at defense while also scoring 15 points a match? Anyone would! He adapted to what he did well and made the most out of it. If anyone is paying attention there seems to be more m* wrestlers around the country now then there are offensive. Also if style matters why don't we see takedown machines like the Brands?
 
Cunningham is a guy teams should be throwing money at to be their coach!

Amen. I have no idea why ISU doesn't try and bring in Varner and Cunningham as a package deal in some way. OR gallick with them while your at it.

I think they are too much in love with the paulsons for too long now.

First thing to do to chip away at Cael is get Cunningham out from under him. Sure he could backfill with David Taylor but Taylor wouldn't hold Cunninghams jockstrap in the practice room. Recruiting trail is different story but honestly it wouldn't improve PSU recriting any more. Its already epic and taylor is already there.
 
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-----

What is real is Q was a superstar coming out of HS.

from PSU's own site:

<<A five-star recruit according to Intermat, the national wrestling source has Wright tabbed as the No. 12 overall recruit (regardless of weight) in the entire nation and top three at either 160 or 171. His high school accolades are outstanding. As stated, he claimed the PIAA AAA state title last year and completed his junior campaign with a perfect 41-0 record. A year before, he was a PIAA Runner-Up. Wright also claimed the 2006 Beast of the Championship and was a Cadet Freestyle All-American.

As a high school junior, Wright competed in a number of collegiate level open tournaments, including a fifth place finish at last year's Nittany Lion Open and the title at the Millersville Invitational. >>

Q wrestled for PSU as a true fr. In a dual that year he lost to #1 ranked Luke of Mich by 6-4. He was B10 runnerup, and entered ncaa tournament as the #11 seed. He finished well above that, reaching AA status (6th place).

All that was before Cael arrived.

He took a RS year following that true fr year.

So puh- leez .... like so many other PSU recruits, Q was very much an elite blue chip prospect coming out of HS. Using Q as an example of Cael making a silk purse from a sow's ear isn't really all that accurate.

I never said Q was a sow's ear. But, people in Iowa are always complaining how the rankings are skewed because they don't get the media coverage. When Grant Gambrall DOMINATED Wright, people in Iowa were using this match to prove that Gambrall was underrated and Wright was over rated.

You can't have it both ways.

So, how do you explain with no major injuries (ACL's, breaks, etc) how Gambrall regressed at Iowa and Wright got better?

What is irrefutable is that Wright was an AA under Sunderland and a National Champion under Cael. You may not like it, but it cannot be argued (effectively).
 
I never said Q was a sow's ear. But, people in Iowa are always complaining how the rankings are skewed because they don't get the media coverage. When Grant Gambrall DOMINATED Wright, people in Iowa were using this match to prove that Gambrall was underrated and Wright was over rated.

You can't have it both ways.

So, how do you explain with no major injuries (ACL's, breaks, etc) how Gambrall regressed at Iowa and Wright got better?

What is irrefutable is that Wright was an AA under Sunderland and a National Champion under Cael. You may not like it, but it cannot be argued (effectively).
Not making any excuses for Gambrall, but after his SO season when he took 3rd at NCAAs, he had a lot of concussion issues, which resulted in his weight fluctuating higher and he wrestled 197 for a stint and struggled majorly. Then his SR year he got beat out of the lineup when Evans moved up to 174 and Lofthosue went 184. He had his opportunities but didn't get it done.
 
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So let me see if I understand some of the posts here.........

Some want HIWILLIE to put Brands on the Black Flag list.

OK.....got it.
 
Wow.....

So a dual where 9 of 10 matches went according to script is the back breaker and now we need to fire coaches?? Give me a break guys. Step back and take a deep breath. If Brooks wins, it's a 20-18 final even with Stoll givign up 6. Hardly a cause for burning the place down.

As far as Terry is concerned, he is widely considered by his peers, both in the US and internationally as one of the best lightweight coaches in the WORLD. Our lightweight success is unparalleled by any program in the country since he arrived. I think his value is apparent if you're paying attention.

Also, people can rip on M* all they want but the fact is, he's largely repsonsible for some of the recruiting successes we are having and that was his primary responsibility when he was brought on board. Expecting him to turn middle tier guys into national champions is a bit unreasonable. But I guess that's the theme of this board right now. I also love people still bringing up Jay Borschel as if he's some type of savior. What did he do while at NU exactly? How many AA's or NC's did they at the middle weights while under his watch? And that's not meant to blast on JayBo but he's proven nothing more than M* and when it comes to recruiting, M* has a resume JayBo can't sniff. And at this point in the game, from what I'm seeing, college wrestling is 80% about recruiting and 20% about culture, fit and development of skills already possessed by the athelte. They're all coming in better coached than at any time in history because of the number of successful wrestlers that have gotten into kids/HS coaching. You can be 8 years old and get coached by former college national champs and AA's. So by the time guys are 18, while not a finished product, the general style and approach is already in tact. The college coach is responsible for taking what the kid has and souping it up, not overhauling it. So if you get the best of the best, then you win and that's what PSU is doing. Iowa is a notch below in getting the best of the best. But they're not far off. If recruiting continues to improve and takes off, so will the program. It's about talent, plain and simple.

Nice summary of where we stand ........very perceptive.

I just finished reading one of IAWrestle older posts from a couple years ago about recruiting where on the video imbeded there Marinelli credits M* for his recruitment. Would think Kemdawg and some of the others fit that profile also. If M* wasn't getting the job done recruiting he wouldn't be around too long I would guess. Just need to keep that pipeline open and flowing in the right direction. You're welcome Tarp. :cool:

And for those that think that M* wrestling "Style" while at Iowa is what is the cause of some of the "bad" matches that some of the guys have had recently....like Brooks.............Wow....Just Wow.

On the burnout issue I think many here have selective memory that may influence their own personal bias.

We perceive Evans and DSJ as a couple examples of possible burnout. But we ignore McD and Ramos as examples of some who embraced the workouts and succeeded Do you think Gilman is concerned about burnout??? Or Clark? I think they are a couple of good examples of TnT making good wrestlers better through toughness and developing a relentless approach. We like the growth we have seen in Burak over the years and the growth we have seen in Cooper this year as well as others.......yet still complain that TnT are a problem and something needs to be done. Yea right. OBTW.......Metcalf said he's burned out too. o_O

Cooper is Cooper....not Imar or Nolf as much as we would like him to be. He's trying to be the best Cooper he can be. And that is what TnT and the other coaches are trying to help him become. Same with the other wrestlers. Brooks looked bad. Is that Terry's fault or M*? Really? Brooks has had a couple bad matches and a lot of wins with lots of bonus points. Probably the best bonus guy on the team. So lets add up Brooks pluses and minus here and see what the balance should be for TnT's account.

It's easy to find fault and lay blame when things go wrong for your expectations. But the problem needs to be addressed looking in a mirror as well.
 
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Nice summary of where we stand ........very perceptive.

I just finished reading one of IAWrestle older posts from a couple years ago about recruiting where on the video imbeded there Marinelli credits M* for his recruitment. Would think Kemdawg and some of the others fit that profile also. If M* wasn't getting the job done recruiting he wouldn't be around too long I would guess. Just need to keep that pipeline open and flowing in the right direction. You're welcome Tarp. :cool:

And for those that think that M* wrestling "Style" while at Iowa is what is the cause of some of the "bad" matches that some of the guys have had recently....like Brooks.............Wow....Just Wow.

On the burnout issue I think many here have selective memory that may influence their own personal bias.

We perceive Evans and DSJ as a couple examples of possible burnout. But we ignore McD and Ramos as examples of some who embraced the workouts and succeeded Do you think Gilman is concerned about burnout??? Or Clark? I think they are a couple of good examples of TnT making good wrestlers better through toughness and developing a relentless approach. We like the growth we have seen in Burak over the years and the growth we have seen in Cooper this year as well as others.......yet still complain that TnT are a problem and something needs to be done. Yea right. OBTW.......Metcalf said he's burned out too. o_O

Cooper is Cooper....not Imar or Nolf as much as we would like him to be. He's trying to be the best Cooper he can be. And that is what TnT and the other coaches are trying to help him become. Same with the other wrestlers. Brooks looked bad. Is that Terry's fault or M*? Really? Brooks has had a couple bad matches and a lot of wins with lots of bonus points. Probably the best bonus guy on the team. So lets add up Brooks pluses and minus here and see what the balance should be for TnT's account.

It's easy to find fault and lay blame when things go wrong for your expectations. But the problem needs to be addressed looking in a mirror as well.

I think Tom and Terry are the two best coaches in college wrestling. But, they aren't perfect and two things bother me:
1). Iowa has lost its edge. Opponents used to fear us. We won before the opponent took the mat. We have lost the fear and edge. We are a very predictable team. 2). It seems we have more wrestlers that falter down the stretch -- either at the end of their careers or at the end of the season. When is the last time we collectively wrestled above our seeds at the NCAAs? You mention McD as an example of someone not burned out, but I think he was physically fried by the end of college. Granted, he was injured, but that is my point. He looked frail and weak, and looked like had had been sucking weight too long.

Again, I am big supporters of Tom and Terry. But, they are the coaches and should be accountable for performance issues. Tom said there were cultural issues with the last group of seniors. Well, sorry, that is the coaches job to ensure a good culture is in the room.
 
Tom, Terry, and Ryan are the best coaches in college wrestling when they work with the right athletes. McD, Ramos, St. John, Borschel, Slaton, Dennis, Marion, Gilman, Clark - these guys wrestle like Gable era Hawks and our coaches diserve the credit.

I think what we're all perplexed with is the Ethan Lofthouses, Nick Moores, and Grant Gramballs. These type wrestlers seem to mystify our coaches too. We didn't see them on Gable's teams. Maybe he coached them through it or simply had a knack of identifying them in high school and not recruiting them. Or, maybe these were the wrestlers that he slapped before matches. Who knows.

Terry Brands likes to tell his wrestlers - "you get what you earn." But there is a saying that might apply to our coaches - "you get what you put up with." IMO the only reason Alex Meyer is a lackadaisical wrestler is because he believes he can get away with it. And he's correct - he can [some wrestlers need a kick in the ass, others need a hug - Gable knew that]

It's no knock on our wrestlers or coaches - it's human nature to give less than our best effort and it's human nature for coaches to be nuturing and supportive. But Iowa wrestling is abound breaking barriers and IMO our coaches need to insist that every wrestler go hard for seven minutes or sit down until they do so.
 
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Tom, Terry, and Ryan are the best coaches in college wrestling when they work with the right athletes. McD, Ramos, St. John, Borschel, Slaton, Dennis, Marion, Gilman, Clark - these guys wrestle like Gable era Hawks and our coaches diserve the credit.

I think what we're all perplexed with is the Ethan Lofthouses, Nick Moores, and Grant Gramballs. These type wrestlers seem to mystify our coaches too. We didn't see them on Gable's teams. Maybe he coached them through it or simply had a knack identifying them in high school and not recruiting them. Or, maybe these were the wrestlers that he slapped before matches. Who knows.

Terry Brands likes to tell his wrestlers - "you get what you earn." But there is a saying that might apply to our coaches - "you get what you put up with." IMO the only reason Alex Meyer is a lackadaisical wrestler is because he believes he can get away with it. And he's correct - he can [some wrestlers need a kick in the ass, others need a hug - Gable knew that]

It's no knock on our wrestlers or coaches - it's human nature to give less than our best effort and it's human nature for coaches to be nuturing and supportive. But Iowa wrestling is abound breaking barriers and IMO our coaches need to insist that every wrestler go hard for seven minutes or sit down until they do so.

Well said.
 
The sport has pass by the ole push, push, shove, shove ask for a stall call or spin behind after your opponent wears down. Either get with the game or fall behind.
 
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I never said Q was a sow's ear. But, people in Iowa are always complaining how the rankings are skewed because they don't get the media coverage. When Grant Gambrall DOMINATED Wright, people in Iowa were using this match to prove that Gambrall was underrated and Wright was over rated.

You can't have it both ways.

So, how do you explain with no major injuries (ACL's, breaks, etc) how Gambrall regressed at Iowa and Wright got better?

What is irrefutable is that Wright was an AA under Sunderland and a National Champion under Cael. You may not like it, but it cannot be argued (effectively).
-------

What I would argue is that extrapolating trends from a single HS post season match is silly. It seems you are trying to do just that, and not looking at everything followed. You say Gambrall had "no major injuries" and he "regressed at Iowa."

That statement about injuries is not true.

Gambrall had problems with concussions in college, as Lax said. He received his 2nd concussion in summer, following his soph 3rd place AA finish.

So I wouldn't read too into coach's ability to improve a single wrestler, following a serious injury.

Look at the Altons, both of whom were ranked considerably higher than Gambrall coming out of HS. A. Alton was #2, while Dylan was #8. Gambrall was ranked at #46. Did the Altons "regress under Cael at PSU"? By your logic, it would seem so.

Personally, I would cut the Altons some slack regarding their serious shoulder injuries (as I would McDonough his sr year). Gambrall deserves the same.

Look, I'm not saying Cael doesn't develop wrestlers or that he isn't a good coach. But I am saying he is starting out with such high quality wrestlers out of HS, that it makes it a little harder to tell how good of a coach he really is. He is bringing in blue ribbon recruits like no one else in d1 wrestling. If Pico would've gone to PSU and beat Retherford, I'm not convinced Cael would deserve the credit.
 
Just wondering what posters would be saying about T@T if the Hawks would have kicked the shit out of N.C.State.
But we didn't. At some point we have to stop blaming the wrestlers. The decline of the Iowa dominance and Iowa style may be multi factorial, but it falls on the head coach.
 
Carl talks about having fun every match and lets his kids wrestle their own styles. No ****ing collar ties and hanging on the head for every one of his wrestlers. Ties don't work if you can't gain an advantage on your offense. Works fine for the smaller, faster guys, but is boring and hasn't worked for Iowa's middle weights

Sorry but I just have to say that Cael used a collar tie for the majority of his offense.
 
I think Tom and Terry are the two best coaches in college wrestling. But, they aren't perfect and two things bother me:
1). Iowa has lost its edge. Opponents used to fear us. We won before the opponent took the mat. We have lost the fear and edge. We are a very predictable team. 2). It seems we have more wrestlers that falter down the stretch -- either at the end of their careers or at the end of the season. When is the last time we collectively wrestled above our seeds at the NCAAs? You mention McD as an example of someone not burned out, but I think he was physically fried by the end of college. Granted, he was injured, but that is my point. He looked frail and weak, and looked like had had been sucking weight too long.

Again, I am big supporters of Tom and Terry. But, they are the coaches and should be accountable for performance issues. Tom said there were cultural issues with the last group of seniors. Well, sorry, that is the coaches job to ensure a good culture is in the room.

So you thinkkk that we have not collectively wrestled above our seeds in a long time. Well maybe we have been seeded higher than we should be just because we are Iowa. Look at Meyer earlier this year ranked #3. That sure doesn't look good right now. He may not even AA the way he is wrestling now. Is that really on TnT or who Meyer really is as a wrestler. He may have overachieved in his few opportunities last year and got our hopes a little high for this year.

You say you think that McD was physically fried, frail and weak and had been sucking weight too long. I will grant you that many fans were surprised he stayed at 125 his whole career. However..............

McD was 8-0 at Carver his Sr.year. 18-2 in duals with a 22-5 overall record and finished 2nd at Big Tens. And all the while injured like you said. He earned two Big Ten Wrestler of the Week to total 4 for his career.....more than any other Hawkeye wrestler in history........all while he was physically fried, frail, weak, and cutting weight too long. He also scored 74 points in dual competition, while Ramos led the team with 76 dual points. Finished his career with a 122-9 mark and the 11th best winning percentage (.931) in school history.

Earned the J. Donaly McPike Sr. award for the highest GPA average by a Hawkeye senior and was an Academic All Big Ten letter winner. He must have been mentally burned out too I guess.

http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/mtt/matt_mcdonough_379917.html

So your perception of what you think you saw and what the records show seem to be a bit different. He had 2 points less than a Dominant Ramos for the team lead in dual points. I'll take that kind of frail, weak, physically fried most all of the time. He was injured and still attained more than most do while healthy.

One of the points that I was trying to make in my previous post was that we as fans have selective memory. We remember what helps us support our own personal point of view rather than a total, complete and unbiased accurate accounting of the facts. Not that we do it on purpose. That's just the way our minds work a lot of the time.

And as far as holding TnT accountable for performance issues. I disagree. If Tom or Terry were out on the mat wrestling alongside them in a tag team match sort of thing.....well then maybe.

But to put the onus on TnT for the wrestlers performance is just a way of laying blame on them rather than holding the wrestler accountable for his actions or lack thereof. Isn't wrestling all about what the individual does all by themselves on the mat. Isn't that the "beauty" of our sport. No one else can lay claim to our successes or failures. It's all up to us when we step onto the mat. Personal responsibility. Own it. Embrace it. That's what wrestling is all about.
 
I don't think you need a new head coach, but I do think you need a slight change in philosophy. It seems the studs do not want to come and shoot singles and snap heads and do stand ups. They want to roll around and shoot low singles and scramble. A style change to a more balls to the wall style may attract kids. With the Hawks work ethic, any style would be successful. You just need to get the best kids to execute it.

What kid would not want to wrestle in front of thousands of screaming die hard wrestling fans? Cael seems to get the best recruits. You have to admit, he has a totally different persona than Brands does. Something about that is drawing kids to him. PSU wrestles with an all out go for it style. Recruits can see that as plainly as I and you can.

Also, I think the solution lies with the assistant coaches. I seem to remember the last title the Hawks won was with Zadick as an assistant. I love everything Terry stands for, but 2 doses of Brands may be too much for the average stud coming out of high school. No one can question their dedication and work ethic, but maybe just maybe there is more to coaching than knowing technique and putting in hours. Sometimes a different angle gives a person a view that solves problems. I can't imagine any sane person getting rid of Tom Brands as a head coach. What other option is left. Keep doing everything the same or make some changes?

I like the way they have compensated by bringing in M* to recruit and overcome a weakness and it may pan out. The fact that you are now getting #1 recruits is very promising. I would say if things don't change in 4 years, it is DEFINITELY time to get rid of 1 or 2 assistant coaches. Why do all 3 coaches have to have the same knowledge and style? It seems like at least one of them would be redundant.

With all that being said, the Hawks have still gotten a trophy in each of the last what 8 years. No one else can say that. You guys are in the mix because of your incredible work ethic and the dedication of your coaches and you are not at the top of the heap because something is not attracting the top talent. A little tweaking is all that is needed - if you call an assistant coach change or a slight philosophy change a little tweaking.
Holy shit, this is pretty much dead on....with new recruiting and SC philosophy things could get better quickly....none the less, this was dead on
 
This is not a rash statement. We have seen Iowa do this now for half a dozen years. We know what March will bring. I hope I have to eat crow, but I am just going by facts on the ground. I love Brands as a wrestler and human being, but I would throw a "too good to say no" offer at Cael. I know I will get roasted for that. I'm just sick of the yearly March Meltdown.

I disagree on the regime change. IMHO, Iowa has the best fan base and is the epicenter of wrestling in the USA, and it also has a distinctive style that Tom Brands epitomizes. It would be a tragedy to loose that. Right now PSU is the better program, but every year Iowa is challenging got the national championship. That's not a small feat and it would be hard to improve on that. A regime change would probably have worse results.

PSU is my favorite team by a long shoot because they are fun to watch. I have the ultimate respect for Iowa wrestling, but I have to admit I cheer against them and feel a sense of schadenfreude by a rare Iowa team loose or by a Iowa wrestler that I feel has a villain element to them such as Gilman, Ramos, or Evans. My point is even for those who aren't a diehard Iowa fan, the Hawkeyes are very significant to all wrestling fans.

So I'm very impressed by your program, but I understand you guys expect national championships. My suggestion for change would be don't wait until the end of the third period to wrestle aggressively.

Lastly, some of my all time favorite wrestlers are Hawkeyes. Guys like Metcalf and McDonough.
 
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Well, the time for this thread is AFTER Nationals, don't you think? It makes me queasy calling for heads to roll after ONE dual loss. AZ is right though. We're gonna talk about this sooner or later. I have a several thoughts:

This isn't about Carl Sanderfield. He will do what he does with the studs he gets. More power to him. Suggesting to offer him big $ to come coach is total lunacy AND poor judgement. He wouldn't come, and I wouldn't want him. He was getting owned by TB when he was at ISU, and he hasn't changed much since then, but the talent he gets has.

We've all seen some promising wrestlers become more timid and less offensive as the season and the years go by. They're supposed to get better every match, but they peak in the middle of the season. They're supposed to get better every year, but they peak after two. I don't think that injuries explain this. We've seen a couple of recruiting classes produce under-performing wrestlers. I can't believe that it's just bad luck. However, I love the new class that's coming in next year. It is a quality class, and could produce two or three finalists. Maybe some years the recruiting wasn't so hot, but not this year. So recruiting is good right now. We will need them to wrestle up to the level of their talent.

The issue is not so much our losing, but how we wrestle. I don't mind the losing as much as the poor wrestling: no takedowns, no early offense, no back points, few bonus points, no third-period extra motor. Talented guys who consistently wrestle really well always end up winning sooner or later. Also note that our guys often beat the lesser opponents handily, but lose to top talent. With some exceptions (Gilman), they also coast on leads.

This isn't about poor coaching. TnT are as good as they get. Also, make no mistake: nothing removes the personal responsibility of each wrestler to do his best. This isn't about that. This is about sports psychology.

My best guess is that the culture (fans, tradition, etc.) and maybe the coaches have created a pressurized environment that wears down the guys, and I think it's getting worse. Personally, I think some of these guys are afraid to lose. I think they're so afraid of losing, both in practice and in matches, that they don't practice and perform the things that could help them win. I hear TB saying the right things in the interviews. My guess is that he's doing the right things, too, but the guys just can't hear it. Also, although they are both awesome coaches, I agree with another poster that having both TnT may not be the ideal coaching mix. However, these are smart guys and they'll figure it out.

As fans, we have a part in this. First, we need to applaud real effort as much as victory. It's about direction, not perfection. We need to recognize and celebrate major improvements in our guys, especially third-period effort.
Second, let's keep Hawkeye Carver a welcoming place for all visiting fans. (Okay, maybe not the Clones ;) ) People travel to Iowa City for the Iowa Wrestling Experience, so let's make it a good one, so they come back and we can beat them again.
Third, let's try to push for a better dual schedule with fewer weak opponents early in the season. We don't learn as much or as fast when we wrestle DIII schools or JCs. If you want to be the best, then you have to wrestle the best. Shouldn't UNI be on the schedule EVERY year? Also, schools like Edinboro, Missouri, and VTech should be on there often too. I'd rather lose early to the best guys from these schools that at Nationals. We take on all comers.
Fourth, let's help Iowa High School wrestling get even better. This is our own talent pool, and we really need all the talent we can get.
 
Dear coaches:

You haven't won an NCAA title in 5 years.

You've only been a runner-up once in those 5 years, so you can't blame it on PSU (not that you would). It clearly has nothing to do with PSU, despite fan chatter to the contrary.

You know how difficult it is to win a title without multiple champs (PSU last did it 5 years ago); you know how difficult it is to win with <100 points (the 2 factors being significantly correlated).

Yet you haven't produced multiple champs since you won the title 6 years ago. You've only scored more than 100 points once in the past 5 years. You currently have no one ranked #1. Stated plainly, you're no longer producing enough champs to win titles.

You clearly know how to do it, as you've done it before. But you've stopped, and that's extremely troubling to everyone. God knows if we could help you, we would. But our job is simply to come to meets, paint our faces black and gold, and spout off on message boards. You, on the other hand, are paid to win titles, and you understand that the buck stops with you.

So let's look forward, not back. Two simple questions--and both can wait until after NCAAs:

(1) What are you doing differently (or going to do differently) in order to produce multiple champs, score more than 100 points, and reclaim an NCAA title?

(2) How long do you need, realistically, to accomplish that? (7 years is the longest Iowa title drought since 1974; last year was #5, and at the moment we're staring down the barrel of #6.)

P.S. 99% of fans rightfully believe you are great coaches, as they have witnessed your ability to produce titles. We expect you to be able to do it again, which is why we are growing restless ("restless" being a polite euphemism for extremely frustrated).

Sincerely,

Ardent fans and supporters of Iowa Wrestling
 
Lots of great discussion here heres my observation. I think tom ,terry and staff are as good as we can get unless gable would come out of retirement,not happening. We need to offer TWO maybe THREE FULLschlorships to mark hall ,spencer lee type recritits . Its all about BONUS POINTS,FALLS TECH FALLS like cael did with did with david taylor and ed ruth. Then have the other 7 /8 guys with potenial fill in all american status. We are not getting bonus points and shoe in champs at nationals since mark perry. Developing potential is great but to win another national title we need BONUS points like in the gable days. Go Hawks!
 
So you thinkkk that we have not collectively wrestled above our seeds in a long time. Well maybe we have been seeded higher than we should be just because we are Iowa. Look at Meyer earlier this year ranked #3. That sure doesn't look good right now. He may not even AA the way he is wrestling now. Is that really on TnT or who Meyer really is as a wrestler. He may have overachieved in his few opportunities last year and got our hopes a little high for this year.

You say you think that McD was physically fried, frail and weak and had been sucking weight too long. I will grant you that many fans were surprised he stayed at 125 his whole career. However..............

McD was 8-0 at Carver his Sr.year. 18-2 in duals with a 22-5 overall record and finished 2nd at Big Tens. And all the while injured like you said. He earned two Big Ten Wrestler of the Week to total 4 for his career.....more than any other Hawkeye wrestler in history........all while he was physically fried, frail, weak, and cutting weight too long. He also scored 74 points in dual competition, while Ramos led the team with 76 dual points. Finished his career with a 122-9 mark and the 11th best winning percentage (.931) in school history.

Earned the J. Donaly McPike Sr. award for the highest GPA average by a Hawkeye senior and was an Academic All Big Ten letter winner. He must have been mentally burned out too I guess.

http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/mtt/matt_mcdonough_379917.html

So your perception of what you think you saw and what the records show seem to be a bit different. He had 2 points less than a Dominant Ramos for the team lead in dual points. I'll take that kind of frail, weak, physically fried most all of the time. He was injured and still attained more than most do while healthy.

One of the points that I was trying to make in my previous post was that we as fans have selective memory. We remember what helps us support our own personal point of view rather than a total, complete and unbiased accurate accounting of the facts. Not that we do it on purpose. That's just the way our minds work a lot of the time.

And as far as holding TnT accountable for performance issues. I disagree. If Tom or Terry were out on the mat wrestling alongside them in a tag team match sort of thing.....well then maybe.

But to put the onus on TnT for the wrestlers performance is just a way of laying blame on them rather than holding the wrestler accountable for his actions or lack thereof. Isn't wrestling all about what the individual does all by themselves on the mat. Isn't that the "beauty" of our sport. No one else can lay claim to our successes or failures. It's all up to us when we step onto the mat. Personal responsibility. Own it. Embrace it. That's what wrestling is all about.

Because you believe in personal accountability you don't blame the coaches for the performance of their team? The same team that they recruited, trained and led? But it is not their fault at all? That sounds like the opposite of personal accountability. Why have coaches then? They are just meaningless tools that don't have any impact on their wrestlers?
 
I never said Q was a sow's ear. But, people in Iowa are always complaining how the rankings are skewed because they don't get the media coverage. When Grant Gambrall DOMINATED Wright, people in Iowa were using this match to prove that Gambrall was underrated and Wright was over rated.

You can't have it both ways.

So, how do you explain with no major injuries (ACL's, breaks, etc) how Gambrall regressed at Iowa and Wright got better?

What is irrefutable is that Wright was an AA under Sunderland and a National Champion under Cael. You may not like it, but it cannot be argued (effectively).

Kittylion, what national titles did the great CS win at Iowa State? He had three years as head coach, never won a national championship while a head coach and had "TWO" individual champions in three years. What a great job of coaching up your athletes. He new he couldn't get it done at Iowa State, even though he was the greatest coach in America. So what should he do. Dump the college team that helped him win 4 titles and go to Penn State where he could BUY, I mean recruit the cream of the crop wrestlers. Sounds a lot like Phil Jackson who just created Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. If you are in an area where you can get 10 top rated recruits, then you do have a fairly good chance to be a Great coach. He's good but not God....If he was such a great coach why did he put his tail between his legs last year and red shirt most of his team? A great coach would have taken a couple of mid scale recruits and made his team a winner, not a winner:) IMO
 
Kittylion, what national titles did the great CS win at Iowa State? He had three years as head coach, never won a national championship while a head coach and had "TWO" individual champions in three years. What a great job of coaching up your athletes. He new he couldn't get it done at Iowa State, even though he was the greatest coach in America. So what should he do. Dump the college team that helped him win 4 titles and go to Penn State where he could BUY, I mean recruit the cream of the crop wrestlers. Sounds a lot like Phil Jackson who just created Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. If you are in an area where you can get 10 top rated recruits, then you do have a fairly good chance to be a Great coach. He's good but not God....If he was such a great coach why did he put his tail between his legs last year and red shirt most of his team? A great coach would have taken a couple of mid scale recruits and made his team a winner, not a winner:) IMO

One could ask, what has Brands done after his free recruiting class of VA Tech recruits graduated? Looking from the outside, Cael just out working Brands from one of the more important aspects of Head Coaching -- recruiting. He doesn't mind getting his hands dirty or kissing babies as the Hawkeye faithful calls it. What do you think leaves better impression to recruits and their families - have the head coach, greatest college wrestler and Olympic gold champion show up at on your front door step, or some assistant coach that underachieved in college and was boring as hell to watch wrestle. You got to ask yourself how did Brands get those VA Tech recruits? Wasn't he the one knocking on the doors as Zalisky's assistant when first started talking to them? If you want the big recruits you have to show a personal interest in them.
 
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One could ask, what has Brands done after his free recruiting class of VA Tech recruits graduated? Looking from the outside, Cael just out working Brands from one of the more important aspects of Head Coaching -- recruiting. He doesn't mind getting his hands dirty or kissing babies as the Hawkeye faithful calls it. What do you think leaves better impression to recruits and their families - have the head coach, greatest college wrestler and Olympic gold champion show up at on your front door step, or some assistant coach that underachieved in college and was boring as hell to watch wrestle. You got to ask yourself how did Brands get those VA Tech recruits? Wasn't he the one knocking on the doors as Zalisky's assistant when first started talking to them? If you want the big recruits you have to show a personal interest in them.
Again, what did this great coach do at Iowa State and a below average recruiting area. Nothing! Good coach but it still helps to be in a fabulous recruiting area to kiss ass, i mean babies.:)
 
One could ask, what has Brands done after his free recruiting class of VA Tech recruits graduated? Looking from the outside, Cael just out working Brands from one of the more important aspects of Head Coaching -- recruiting. He doesn't mind getting his hands dirty or kissing babies as the Hawkeye faithful calls it. What do you think leaves better impression to recruits and their families - have the head coach, greatest college wrestler and Olympic gold champion show up at on your front door step, or some assistant coach that underachieved in college and was boring as hell to watch wrestle. You got to ask yourself how did Brands get those VA Tech recruits? Wasn't he the one I'm knocking on the doors as Zalisky's assistant when first started talking to them? If you want the big recruits you have to show a personal interest in them.

Well considering that all of Brands national champions were Brands recruited, I don't see the comparison? This is not to say you don't have a future point and agree that Brands should get out and pound the pavement (I don't know that he doesn't with the big recruits) but consider this that only two of Cael's recruits have won titles so far in the past six years as a HC:

Matt Brown
DT

Q, Molinaro, and Ed were all there or headed there. Q and Molinaro were already AA's. Not a bad group to start out with IMO without ever having to drop a dime.

Finally, it's kind of easy for a salesman to pitch top talent when you are the only real large company in the area. We have Minne, ISU, Nebraska, Illinois, Missouri...all closer to us than Ohio State, for example, is to you. Hell, even Okie State is a day's drive to Iowa. You guys have Pitt, Lehigh, Ohio State, and Edinboro. Jumping in the car to drive a few hours to a recruit's door vs jumping in a plane and flying 700 miles to get to a recruits doorstep is a helluva advantage. Also consider that your product basically gets free advertising in the area. Here are a few examples of Cael "outhustling" Brands:

125-Nico
133-Conaway
141-Guilbon
149-Zain
157-Nolf
165-Morelli
184-Cutch

BTW, all of the above wrestlers live closer to Penn State than Gilman (from the Omaha area) does to Iowa. We've pulled a hell of a lot more out of PA than Cael will pull out of Iowa. Makes sense, right? Because P.A. has a crapload of talent and PSU only has enough $$$ to go around...or so it would seem ;)

It all comes down to location and logistics bro...I bet you think that the Saudis are filthy rich because they are smart, amiright?
 
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