Perry stop with this 26 wins garbage. Easiest non-con schedule ever?
we get it, you and about 15 others are happy.
we get it, you and about 15 others are happy.
I am not optimistic for next season with none or one and done Fran.
- Thread starter vgshwk
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I’m a huge Dr Tom fan…..very good coach and a better human being.
And there were approximately 334 teams each and everyone of those years that didn’t get there. That’s over 7,600 times teams didn’t make that level in the tournament.
Come on…you can make some sort of substantive position right? You might not like the 26 wins, since it undermines your position, but it’s a fact.
The false statement that “I’m happy” is also false….I’m not. It was a nut punch to lose that game. I want championships, not just sweet 16s….but Jebus, if we’re trashing coaches or players when they don’t achieve what we want, wanting them fired or to move on, claiming they will NEVER get there…..it’s just like a child having a tantrum. It’s not a good way to make decisions. It’s been proven over and over again.
I'd agree there's no reasonabke argument to fire Fran atm, but there's also no debating his pathetic march history.
Thats completely absurd.
His numbers were some of the best per minute in the conference.
I hope your straw-man argument is keeping you happy about Iowa basketball.
Now do some research and let us all know of these 350 or so D-1 program (about half of which belong to "1-bid conferences") how many have been to the Sweet 16 since Iowa was last there. I think the results will show that if you are in a multi-bid conference, chances are you've accidentally gotten into the Sweet 16 this century, and if you have a coach paid as much as Fran is, it's almost impossible that you haven't.
We can't count on continuing to have NPOY/B10POY caliber players year in year out. Iowa doesn't recruit at that level to expect that to continue IMO. Fran kind of caught lightning in a bottle with Luka and Keegan.
We have had those guys the past few years...And have 1 NCAA win to show for it.
One.
I'm not necessarily saying next season will be a BAD year per se... But I have trouble seeing anything happening that will change the narrative assuming Keegan goes pro, and possibly Kris. We'll see.
Unless we're surprised and both Murray's return next year, I fear we missed our chance to break through that glass ceiling. Iowa had a 2 seed and a 5 seed in back to back years and did precious little with it.
So no, I am not optimistic, either. I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong.
We have had those guys the past few years...And have 1 NCAA win to show for it.
One.
I'm not necessarily saying next season will be a BAD year per se... But I have trouble seeing anything happening that will change the narrative assuming Keegan goes pro, and possibly Kris. We'll see.
Unless we're surprised and both Murray's return next year, I fear we missed our chance to break through that glass ceiling. Iowa had a 2 seed and a 5 seed in back to back years and did precious little with it.
So no, I am not optimistic, either. I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong.
How many of our 26 wins were considered quad 1 wins as of last Sunday? I don’t know myself but I’d guess 5? Depends on where IU and UM ended up I suppose.
recall about 3 weeks ago we had zero Q1 wins and we were asking questions like “has this ever happened before to expect a bid?”
I understand other parts of the season matter and bring joy to fans, but the NCAA matters more than anything. A real conference title is second (not BTT). A substantial majority of fans would agree, but I don’t sense you do, which is fine…
anyway, I really don’t want to argue with true fans and I know you are a true fan. Agree to disagree?
recall about 3 weeks ago we had zero Q1 wins and we were asking questions like “has this ever happened before to expect a bid?”
I understand other parts of the season matter and bring joy to fans, but the NCAA matters more than anything. A real conference title is second (not BTT). A substantial majority of fans would agree, but I don’t sense you do, which is fine…
anyway, I really don’t want to argue with true fans and I know you are a true fan. Agree to disagree?
I don't have the info at my fingertips but I believe that has been posted before. The number of teams that have been to the Sweet 16 since Iowa last did it is a long one.
You were doing pretty good until “it’s almost impossible that you haven’t”…..and then you lost it. The “accidentally gotten to the sweet 16” was also way below the intelligence level that you write with.
Who cares if you know (and it seems like we do) they can't perform in the tournament.
Big Ten schools in NCAA Tourney
Source Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Men's_Basketball_Tournament_bids_by_school#cite_note-2
Bids by School | | Most recent | | | Sweet 16 |
# | School | Bid | Win | Last | # |
31 | 2022 | 2022 | 2013 | 14 | |
27 | 2022 | 2022 | 2021 | 16 | |
35 | 2022 | 2022 | 2019 | 20 | |
40 | 2022 | 2022 | 2016 | 22 | |
32 | 2022 | 2022 | 2005 | 11 | |
26 | 2022 | 2022 | 2017 | 10 | |
32 | 2022 | 2022 | 2019 | 12 | |
28 | Iowa | 2022 | 2021 | 1999 | 8 |
28 | 2021 | 2021 | 2016 | 14 | |
10 | 2019 | 2019 | 1990 | 3 | |
9 | 2011 | 2001 | 2001 | 4 | |
8 | 2022 | 2021 | 1979 | 2 | |
7 | 2014 | | | 0 | |
1 | 2017 | 2017 | | 0 | |
[33] | Minnesota vacated the results of the 1972, 1994, 1995, and 1997 NCAA tournaments. | | | | |
[11] | Ohio State vacated the results of its 1999, 2000, 2001, and 2002 NCAA tournament appearances, in which it reached the Final Four in 1999 and the round of 32 in 2000 and 200 | | | | |
Keep doing your research. Tell us how many programs with coaches paid in the %ile of FM have no Sweet 16 appearances this century. You'll probably find that it is "almost impossible" to not.
Someone preaching intelligence should be able to interpret that my "accidentally..." comment meant that just about every basketball program with a pulse has had the good fortune to play in the Sweet 16; Iowa is the exception.
BTW, while you're compiling your list, remember to add Providence and St. Peters.
Ridiculous. For starters, Pat dropped 18 against Richmond on a solid 7/17 shooting performance with several huge threes, so your “every single player” being a no-show comment is incorrect. He also had 10 in 20 minutes against Oregon
Secondly, did you miss the entire Big Ten Tournament? Say what you will about its importance from a program-building/legacy perspective, but from a visibility and competition perspective, BTT games are incredibly high-pressure… and Iowa had a bunch of guys step up during this year’s tournament - Perkins, Toussaint, Pat, Sandfort all hit clutch shots or made big time plays in high leverage situations. But you’re going to pick one game where nobody shot well in a tournament where shooting percentages are down across the board to say that Iowa has nothing to build on? Come on now
I suppose 7/17 shooting looks awesome compared to the rest of the team. Unfortunately that 2 whole rebounds and essentially no defense were also part of his game, so I wouldn't call his performance "solid" whatsoever.
I didn't miss the BTT, but I pretty much forgot about it the second the Richmond game got over, much like most of Hawkeye Nation. Anything "program-building" that was obtained with that BTT run has been completely erased. It only solidified Iowa's reputation as NCAA Tourney choke-artists. So we've got some guys who might put together a decent season. Won't matter. We've got a roster full of players who can't perform on the big stage and a head guy who can't coach himself out of a paper bag when it counts. Nothing was learned from '21; why should I think anything will be learned from '22? You'd probably have to look long and hard to find another school with only 1 NCAA Tourney win after being seeded in the Top 5 two straight years. That's the very definition of a small-time program that's all bark and no bite when the chips are down.
Now you’re moving the goalposts. You initially said that Iowa had not a single returning player show up and that they were all “deer in the headlights.” I countered and said that Patrick had a solid SHOOTING performance - 7/17 and 4/7 from three is solid… and he didn’t look like a deer in the headlights while he was cashing those clutch threes either. Iowa also outrebounded Richmond, so his rebounding numbers hardly contributed to the loss (remember, Iowa was undefeated when outrebounding their opponent until this game)
Whatever man, it’s too bad you feel that way. I thoroughly enjoyed winning the Big Ten Tournament championship and great play and effort this team brought down the stretch, despite the disappointing exit in the Dance. It sounds like you’ve developed a nice methodology to ensure that you are always miserable about Hawkeye basketball though. If the last game of the season is a loss, everything that came before it is meaningless and the season is a failure, right?
No, I didn't. PMac may have been the only player with a pulse on the floor for Iowa, but anything "solid" about his offensive performance was trumped by my watching layup after layup on the other end.
You sound quite happy with Iowa basketball and yourself. I suppose that's a good thing.
No. 67 of the 68 teams in the NCAA Tourney end the season with a loss. But not all losses are considered equal. Iowa has laid huge turds in consecutive games while being a top-5 seed. That is an ugly and disturbing pattern. Sure I'd like this team and coaching staff to all suddenly be big-time and ready for prime-time, but I'd also like Spencer Petras to suddenly be an All-B1G QB; not to mention I'd like to have a threesome with Kate Upton and Scarlett Johansson. Unfortunately, those three things all have about the same chance of happening.
1. Pat didn’t give up 18 points in layups or 18 points period, so to suggest that his offensive performance was “offset” by guys that he individually was guarding is demonstrably false. If you have a bone to pick re: dribble drive penetration, you should be pointing to Bohannon and Toussaint, who got cooked by Gilyard all game for 25 and 6 assists (many of which were easy dump offs for two)
2. Happy with Iowa? It’s a little more nuanced than that. They brought me a lot of happiness over the course of the year, and I greatly enjoyed watching them. I will continue to support the players and coaches on the floor because I am an Iowa fan and that’s all I can do from hundreds of miles away. Happy with the first round exit? No. Happy with myself? … Sometimes?
3. “Not all losses are considered equal” is pretty much an excuse to never be content with an outcome. “I would’ve been happy if we could have at least kept it close in the Sweet 16 game instead of getting blown out, but not all losses are considered equal so I’m going to declare this entire season a failure.” Maybe that’s not you, but I’d bet that it’s a surprisingly high amount of the most vocal people on this board right now
We all want better performance in the tournament from Iowa. This sucks. But if you refuse to enjoy the journey and only dwell over the outcome (which will inevitably be a loss in the last game every single season), no coach and no team will ever be satisfying
Do your own work….because it’s a waste of time. You are wrong….using ambiguous terms like “any program with a pulse” so you can come back and later dodge the truth won’t work….try dealing with the truth, you might not like it at first but it’s better in the long run.
I don't think anyone curled up in a ball last year, Fran was just playing his favorite made men who were no where near athletic enough to compete with Oregon defensively. Garza and Weiskamp played well.
This year I think that would be an ok description after their shots wouldn't fall. Keegan did kind of go into a shell and the rest of the team was rattled.
But I don't think it has any eeffect at all on next year.
Your statement that I was responding to was that Keegan's play didn't warrant starter minutes last year.
That is obviously false based on any system of measuring statistics.
This whole thing really makes no sense.
I'm dealing with the truth. The truth is that Iowa basketball sucks in the NCAA Tourney relative to how they should be performing. I guess you're out of ammo, too.
I say that there is no one currently with the program who has shown he can perform when it matters most, and you counter by mentioning 2 guys not on the team anymore.
It seems I've rattled everyone on this thread enough. On to the next one...
No that's not what you said.
This is what you said.
every single person associated with the men's basketball program has curled up in the fetal position every time when it mattered most, but I do.
Thats not a true statement.
I don't believe there is any relationship between the two years other than Fran playing his made guys who aren't athletic enough to play defense in both.
Iowa lost those games for completely different reasons.
Maybe! Kris did well this year too. I really liked the depth and the energy they provided. It worked.
When you continue to make statements that have no substance, that’s not being out of ammo, that’s hiding in the bunker yelling hollow threats……that doesn’t even by you a draw,
Frank Martin was recently fired by South Carolina. In 10 seasons, he took them to 4 tournaments; winning the first round each time and making the final 4 in 2017.
The final 4 appearance was the first in school history.
Can someone explain what Fran’s done that’s better than Frank’s resume? I couldn’t care less about regular season win totals if it means getting bounced early in March and never even reaching the Sweet 16.
It’s really quite fascinating how acceptable Iowans are with mediocrity. Really strange
The final 4 appearance was the first in school history.
Can someone explain what Fran’s done that’s better than Frank’s resume? I couldn’t care less about regular season win totals if it means getting bounced early in March and never even reaching the Sweet 16.
It’s really quite fascinating how acceptable Iowans are with mediocrity. Really strange
Fran is smart enough to work for a school that values basketball players who are good students, good citizens, and good players. Where we aren’t Nebraska because we not only value winning but realize that doing it the right way is tough, especially in a state with a limited recruiting base……let’s see what happens at South Carolina now.
Good Lord dude.
Yeah, this program doesn't get it done when it counts. Not in close games, not in the tournament, not in quad one games (we have a whopping 4-8 record in this "historic" 26 win season), and until this year we hadn't even had a Big Ten Semifinal appearance in 12 years of him coaching this team. Sorry if we don't all get excited about Fran's graduation rates.
Are you seriously comparing Fran to Frank Martin? South Carolina has not made the NCAA tournament since 2016 and only won six games in 2020. That looks exactly like Fran’s last five years at Iowa. The lengths some Iowa “fans” go to denigrate Fran and the team are amazing.
Wait wasn’t Indiana and Purdue close games in the Big Ten tourney? I guess that didn’t count.
Good Lord dude.
Yeah, this program doesn't get it done when it counts. Not in close games, not in the tournament, not in quad one games (we have a whopping 4-8 record in this "historic" 26 win season), and until this year we hadn't even had a Big Ten Semifinal appearance in 12 years of him coaching this team. Sorry if we don't all get excited about Fran's graduation rates.
How many of the B10 teams didn’t get it done in the B10 tournament?
Good Lord dude.
Yeah, this program doesn't get it done when it counts. Not in close games, not in the tournament, not in quad one games (we have a whopping 4-8 record in this "historic" 26 win season), and until this year we hadn't even had a Big Ten Semifinal appearance in 12 years of him coaching this team. Sorry if we don't all get excited about Fran's graduation rates.
Better yet, Which one did get it done in the B10 tournament? That’s right, the only one that did get it done when it counted was Iowa….. and I know this hurts, but they were coached by Fran.
In 10 seasons at So Carolina, Frank Martin took them to ONE NCAA Tournament. I’m not sure where you got that Martin took them to “four tournaments”. Even if you include NIT’s, which was only one as well, that would be two. But he never lost a first round game in either of those, so you nailed that. Were you including the CBI and “holiday” tournaments too? Where are the other three NCAA Tournaments besides 2016-17?
But I’ll humor your nonsense anyway.
Frank Martin:
10 seasons – zero final AP rankings – 1 NCAA Tournament – 1 Final Four
Record: 171-147 = .538 - finished .500 or above in the SEC 5 of 10 tries
Won 20+ games 2Xs in 10 years.
Fran McCaffery:
12 Seasons – four final AP rankings (including 8th) – 7 NCAA Tournaments
Record: 242-162 = .599 – finished .500 or above in the B1G 9 of 12 tries
Won 20+ games 8Xs in 12 years
One coach took over for the worst three year stretch dating back to the 1930’s and that wasn’t Martin.
It really IS quite fascinating how Iowans will make up lies to try and belittle an Iowa coach. Really strange, indeed.
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7 seed. #2 seed--whether being one or playing one--are Fran's ultimate Achilles heel...
You heard what Fran said: Patrick!
Yes, the team will run through PMac next year!
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