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Kemerer is 84-8 and placed 3rd-4th. He has lost to 6 different opponents (Richardson, Sueflohn, Palacio, M Jordan, Berger, and Nolf x 3; Berger was inj default).
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Wishful thinking is nice huh. Never happenGive me the dawg over Hall also. Hall will have to create his own offense to win and he left his offense in Minnesota or wherever he lived.
ThisAt least this is a thought out post, but I believe you are proving my point.
You're not picking Kem because you think he'll win, your picking him because he's your guy (fandom), but with nothing to show a strength for Kem over Hall. I never stated it was a "dream" for someone to pick him, I was trying to find out what strength you guys feel Kem has over Hall.
1. I believe Hall has about 100 wins so far in his career (I haven't checked), but only 4 guys (Amine, Kutler, Zahid, Crutchmer) have been defeated by Hall in a 1 point match, so his matches aren't 1 point matches that can go either way
2. I agree Kem is VERY good, but you're talking Elite with Nolf and Hall (both guys in finals every year they competed with multiple championships) compared to a non finalist..there is a big distinction there. Spencer is elite, Yianni elite, Zahid elite, etc..
3. Injury is a factor becuase no one knows what you'll get. If people were picking Kem after watching him dominate for a month or so, I can get it. But after sitting out a year, bumping up 2 weights, it is a factor
4. True..can't quantify, but I would think if you asked all D1 coaches who is stronger between the 2, it would be a landslide (pure conjecture on my part)
5. Palacio (and Hall much better than him)
Even in the close matches he still isn't in danger of losingI didn't say 1 point matches only and I qualified it by AA level competition. 2 point matches are ALSO very close scores and that adds in Lujan, Skatzka, Labriola, Finesilver and Jordan.
Other than a late fall against Daniel Lewis and some early on domination of Skatzka before he turned it on at the end of last year, Hall hasn't really dominated any AA level competition.
Simply put, he is vulnerable. At the very least, he is much more vulnerable than the elite wrestlers that Sanderson has coached at PSU over the soon to be decade. Kemerer is a guy, IF HEALTHY, that truly has the potential to be at that level. If he stays healthy, I think you will recognize that, even with the PSU colored glasses!
Even in the close matches he still isn't in danger of losing
Not entirely true there since he has lost. Or was he not in danger, it was close and it just kind of happened? Perplexing statement.Even in the close matches he still isn't in danger of losing
So bet me 100$ on Hall to not lose to KemDawg this year.?.
Friendly wager D4
Im betting KemDawg beats Hall this year
Go Hawks
Even in the close matches he still isn't in danger of losing
Cricket.....Cricket.....CricketSo bet me 100$ on Hall to not lose to KemDawg this year.?.
Friendly wager D4
Im betting KemDawg beats Hall this year
As Sir Gobblin states a few post later; Posting right will be accepted instead of jing. Your call D4.
Go Hawks
Just takes one slip, of the mind or body, in a 1-2 point match.Even in the close matches he still isn't in danger of losing
Are you sure that's not a Cael rule?He's 60-6. You don't count matches during redshirt season
Hall is harder to take down than a 4x NCAA champ? Sorry dude, but you sound like an idiot.This thread should be in a very rose colored tint.
I know this is the Iowa board but I’m shocked how many of you really believe Kem beats Hall.
Hall is..
1. Better technical wrestler
2. Stronger
3. Better defensively
4. Better on top
5. No injury history
Kem is..
1. Bumping up 2 weights
2. Couldn’t take down Nolf, and Hall harder to take down
3. Coming off major injury
4. No Advantage in any of the 3 areas (top, bottom or neutral)
So besides being an Iowa fan, what would be reasons someone picking Kem over Hall? Seriously?
4x finalist, 3x time champ but your point still stands in my book.Hall is harder to take down than a 4x NCAA champ? Sorry dude, but you sound like an idiot.
You do realize if it weren't for injuries, and to a larger extent for that slacker of an all-time great, Nolf, that it's entirely conceivable that Kemerer could have two titles already under his belt.
I think you forget how good he actually is.
You're totally right, thanks to Imar. The Mandela Effect is in full force here.4x finalist, 3x time champ but your point still stands in my book.
Holy shit the season needs to start badly. What a silly, unwinnable argument. My posting rights to Penn States anonymous message board is here for the taking to anyone who wants it. I’ll take any and all bets... PLEASE!
When does NCAA championship NOT become the ultimate comparison? That's what it's all about, Slush.If people want to have a discussion about who is harder to take down, an analysis of actual takedowns allowed is more valid than comparing numbers of championships.
Nolf, because of his offensive mindset, creativity, and confidence that he could score on demand, was actually "easier" to take down than Hall, simply because he was less conservative in his style. Just ask that Barfalo kid from last season.
Same comparison for Retherford. There were multiple matches where he was taken down by a clearly inferior opponent simply because of his offensive mindset. Hall is a more defensive wrestler, which makes him more difficult to take down.
Numbers of championships as a basis for comparing defensive ability/execution does not seem appropriate here. Besides, Hall could end up being a 4x finalist and 2x champ, which is not much different from a 4x finalist and 3x champ (Nolf). If not for an offensive juggernaut named Zahid, Hall could very well have been a 4x champ. Nolf, on the other hand, had to face the likes of IMar in only one season.
When does NCAA championship NOT become the ultimate comparison? That's what it's all about, Slush.
And I was pointing out how dumb it was that Phish was even comparing Hall and Nolf in the first place.
Nolf's greatest defense was his offense, Hall is the polar opposite. Nolf has an 84% bonus rate for crying out loud. The guy didn't give up TDs because he was the one scoring. Hall is around 59%, which is still unbelievably good, but not even in the same world.
Nolf was held to only 10 decisions in his entire career... 3 of those were to Kemerer.
Fwiw--Retherford gotten taken down not because of his offensive style, but because he got lazy and complacent at times. The guy would toy with his opponent and get caught off guard. Hall on the other hand, is because of his his grind-it-out mentality. It opens the window for the other guy and that's what the original argument was.
But congrats, you PSU goobers have successfully high jacked another fun thread of ours. At this point I'm wondering if you aren't a closet Hawkeye fan...
If it weren’t for an offensive juggernaut named Nolf and injuries Kemerer might have been a 4 X champ. If it weren’t for a lack of confidence in his offense and having several wrestlers flat out better than him Cash could have been a 4 time champ........If people want to have a discussion about who is harder to take down, an analysis of actual takedowns allowed is more valid than comparing numbers of championships.
Nolf, because of his offensive mindset, creativity, and confidence that he could score on demand, was actually "easier" to take down than Hall, simply because he was less conservative in his style. Just ask that Barfalo kid from last season.
Same comparison for Retherford. There were multiple matches where he was taken down by a clearly inferior opponent simply because of his offensive mindset. Hall is a more defensive wrestler, which makes him more difficult to take down.
Numbers of championships as a basis for comparing defensive ability/execution does not seem appropriate here. Besides, Hall could end up being a 4x finalist and 2x champ, which is not much different from a 4x finalist and 3x champ (Nolf). If not for an offensive juggernaut named Zahid, Hall could very well have been a 4x champ. Nolf, on the other hand, had to face the likes of IMar in only one season.
If it weren’t for an offensive juggernaut named Nolf and injuries Kemerer might have been a 4 X champ. If it weren’t for a lack of confidence in his offense and having several wrestlers flat out better than him Cash could have been a 4 time champ........
My point is that Hall is a one time champ. The what if’s are stupid at best. As for your thoughts about Kemerer and Hall matching up I really don’t care. The matches will happen and we will see.I'm not sure your analogy works. A lot less separation between Nolf and Hall than between Kemerer and Wilcke.
But go ahead and gloss over the entire point I was making just for the purpose of being oppositional.
Meaning many of his clients matches he is not close to losing and controls the whole match if Kem beats him he beats him im just saying Kem hasn't wrestled in a year and is comong off an injury it seems a stretch to say he will beat someone especially an elite wrestler like hall. I know he isn't liked by Iowa but the guy is good and Kem would have to have the match of his life to beat hall wheels hall doesn't have to have the match of his life. He's that good just saying. But it's ok if you think Kem should win. You are an Iowa fan so rooting for him isn't wrong. I'm just saying from a wrestling perspective that hall is the proven better wrestlerNot entirely true there since he has lost. Or was he not in danger, it was close and it just kind of happened? Perplexing statement.
This seemingly has aged very well. I'll admit after the Indiana dual, it seemed like a stretch.Or Kemerer beating Hall. Two opportunities to improve there.