Iowa vs Iowa State
- Thread starter ketelmeister
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You really think Iowa State has more talent than Iowa?
It's debatable it honestly is. I do think Iowa State has more talent in more position groups. I would take almost everyone on the offensive side of the ball for Iowa States over Iowas players aside from the oline. Iowa State has more talent at WR than Iowa and will have some of the fastest athletes ever seen in a Cyclones Uniform in that group plus arguably one of if not the fastest player in the nation as the #2 RB. Iowa has more talent at some spots on defense and like i said above the OL but overall I do think ISU has more talent across the board other than a few spots.
Well, we will be lucky to hang with you guys next year if that's the case.
Seriously? Iowa's TE duo of Fant and Hockenson may be the best in the country and Stanley, who threw 26 tds, is headed to the NFL. Now you're taking out of your a$$.
No I never said anything about TE's Iowa does have the advantage there and I will be the 1st to admit it. I see WR's and TE's a completey different group. I should have been more specific about it sorry.
Straight from the Liberty Bowl, to the NFC North. BOOK IT!
Is this why isu has had so many more NFL draft picks than Iowa and WVA?
I almost typed that without laughing. But that is why isu is seen as clowns, they are to be laughed at and not taken seriously.
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You would take Kempt over Stanley? And ISU’s TE’s over Iowa’s TE’s? That is some serious combination of Chris Williams and Randy Peterson fan boy Kool aid right there.
The standard arguments about "talent" are overstated. Through the past several years, nobody would argue that Clemson has far more "on-paper" talent compared to Pitt or Syracuse .... however, all the same, through the past 2 years Pitt and Syracuse managed to win.
As we, at Iowa, should recognize ... almost all D1 athletes have A LOT of talent. However, the bigger question is how well that talent can develop and execute within the schemes devised by the coaches. Given how subjective evaluations of talent can be for the majority of athletes ... how can Hawk fans truly claim that there are definite metrics that establish that our team has more talent.
In all frankness, does this sort of argument even matter?
I would claim that a better arguing point would be to ask which program is "further along" ... and this is typically a statement of experience, overall-depth, performance within schemes, etc. Iowa obviously hit a bit of a high point in '15 ... and has essentially been building back up to that as a program. Sustaining that performance is not easy ... and we've obviously have been less successful at doing that, than say Wisconsin ... however, I don't see many signs to suggest that ISU has surpassed the Hawks.
I'm not even sure Kempt will be the starter. He is gonna have to beat out Zeb still. As for the TE's Fant is an absolute stud but I'm not sure how he would be in Iowa State's system with how we use our TE's more as blockers instead of pass catchers a guy like Dylan Soehner who is 6'7 270 pounds and is essentially another Lineman. Neither of Iowa's TE's wold work at the position called the F Spot where they use a TE more as a FB that can split out like they do with Sam Seonbuchner who was an All Big 12 Honerable Mention as a Full Back. Chase Allen is a great pass catchers but was used as a blocker more than anything and ended the season on the all Big 12 2nd team mainly for his blocking ability. Iowa has the better 1 2 punch at TE but for Iowa States system our guys work better imo.
Iowa State fans are cute. They had their best team in years and still couldn’t an Iowa team full of young inexperienced players on offense.
Well then open your eyes, Iowa's receiving unit returns Smith-Marsette & Nick Easley (two receivers with good #'s last year) along with an improved Brandon Smith, among others. Granted, VandenBerg graduated but was hurt some last year. At tight end the Hawks return Fant and Hokensen, among others. So where did Iowa lose "a lot of WR production"? Wadley is a big loss, but Toren Young and Ivory Kelly-Marten will be fine replacements.
I've already proved to you your number 2 running back is slower then iowas 4th string runningback.. and no he isn't even close to one of the fastest players in the nation you are straight making that up
Stanleys’ production last year would have been an all-time single season record at isu by a long ways.
Iowa’s TE’s are light years ahead of anything Marty boy has or probably ever will produce.
You have o be joking if you think isu’s OL is anywhere near Iowas’.
I would give the isu RB position the edge but WR to me is a toss up as the production from last ear that returns for both teams doesn’t give a huge edge one wa or the other.
So isu has the edge at RB but according to myopic clown fans that equates to more talent at most positions.
Still confused as to why isu is often laughed at? Just read your own posts.
Iowa’s TE’s are light years ahead of anything Marty boy has or probably ever will produce.
You have o be joking if you think isu’s OL is anywhere near Iowas’.
I would give the isu RB position the edge but WR to me is a toss up as the production from last ear that returns for both teams doesn’t give a huge edge one wa or the other.
So isu has the edge at RB but according to myopic clown fans that equates to more talent at most positions.
Still confused as to why isu is often laughed at? Just read your own posts.
I learned long ago to NEVER make predictions on this game. Toss everything out the window when Iowa/ISU play.
I didn't consider the QB comparison quite so closely ... Nate Stanely's 26 TD passes really is pretty impressive. I just checked through ISU's QBs back through Seneca Wallace ... you're right that ISU may have had passers who have thrown for more yards, but nobody was as effective in terms of getting the ball into the end-zone.
Iowa's TEs very well could be the best unit in the whole country - so comparing them to ISU's group is simply laughable.
The OL comparison isn't necessarily quite the laugher that you make it out to be. ISU has a terrific center and ISU fans will be quick to remind us that Sean Foster was a 4-star guy. All in all, they return 4 guys who have seen starts - Good-Jones, Meeker, Knipfel, and Foster. Good-Jones is the only guy who has experience as a multi-year starter.
Iowa, of course, returns Wirfs, Jackson, Render, and Paulsen ... all of whom have some starts under their belts. Furthermore, the Hawks also return Reynolds who has a prior start and who rotated into games quite a bit last year.
Of course, another interesting angle in the discussion of the OL is that ISU lost their OL guru ... whereas Iowa had a new OL coach last year. How will the contrast now work with ISU having a new OL coach ... and Iowa's Polasek now getting his feet a little bit more solidly under himself.
Nate Stanley was a machine in that come back win in Ames in the second half.
Who is "Marty boy"? Campbell did have an NFL TE at Toledo. And Chase Allen did get 2nd team all-conference last year, although Fant is clearly a better NFL prospect. I think that ISU has a clear advantage at RB, WR (will see more passes and they have better talent and depth), CB. Iowa has an advantage at QB, OL, S, TE. To me, DL, LB are a push.
I do think that it would be a surprise if ISU beat OU again. But, it's early in the season at home and OU has a new QB, so it wouldn't be completely shocking like last year. I think that it's more likely that ISU picks up a couple of wins that they didn't last year, like iowa, KSU, OSU. ISU won some close games last year, but they lost some close games as well. They're going to have a good team...to me it's not unrealistic to think that they'll go 50/50 on close games again.
I think that at both iowa and ISU, the HC is the "OL guru". The actual OL coach is an extension of the HC. You do go through some growing pains with a new OL coach, but it's lessened when the HC is an OL guy.
I believe it is easier to sneak upon someone than it is to consistently beat teams you should. If the Hawks were to play OSU again this year I would have a win % on that game well under 50% as they wouldn’t take us lightly like they may have in 2017.
With that in mind I can easily see isu going 6-6 or worse if they don’t get upsets or win close games.
An excerpt from tomorrow's article by Randy Peterson:
Kempt will be in the discussion for the 1st overall draft pick next year. The comparisons are more than just a coincidence.
Kyle Kempt 161-243 1802 yds 15 TD 3 INT 4 letters in first name, 5 letters in last name
Josh Allen 152-270 1812 yds 16 TD 6 INT 4 letters in first name, 5 letters in last name
Both are west coast guys that are JUCO transfers.
The other instate QB, Iowa's Nathan Stanley, has too many TD's, yards, and letters in his name to get drafted.
Kempt will be in the discussion for the 1st overall draft pick next year. The comparisons are more than just a coincidence.
Kyle Kempt 161-243 1802 yds 15 TD 3 INT 4 letters in first name, 5 letters in last name
Josh Allen 152-270 1812 yds 16 TD 6 INT 4 letters in first name, 5 letters in last name
Both are west coast guys that are JUCO transfers.
The other instate QB, Iowa's Nathan Stanley, has too many TD's, yards, and letters in his name to get drafted.
If Iowa State had players of Fant and Hockenson’s abilities, I’m pretty sure the coaches would find a way to work them into their system.
FWIW, Hockenson is also a really good blocker, and Iowa has other TEs like Nate Wieting who excel in their role as in-line/blocking TEs.
Regardless, I believe the comments were in regards to who has more talent at the TE position, and the answer to that question is literally without question Iowa. Even the Iowa State coaching staff and ISU players’ mothers would tell you that, if they were being honest.
Fair observation. Matt Campbell definitely has an OL background. However, on the flip side of that ... I haven't seen anywhere where he got some of the same sort of national recognition as an OL-coach like Manning had.
Iowa fans could claim that they have 3 former OL-coaches on the staff ... at least 2 who can justifiably be considered a "guru" ... and even then the Hawks saw some transition on their OL with Polasek as a new position coach.
Good grief man. It's going to be a competitive game, but stuff like this makes me wonder why Iowa would even show up. I like what Campbell has done with the program, but don't find it surprising that Iowa State has "more talent across the board" than Iowa comments aren't well received here. You should have no problem predicting a 10+ point ISU win this September correct?
At the end of the day, I would trade a loss to ISU for a chance to play in the B1G championship game, which probably would mean we beat Wisconsin. Haven't some of KF's best season come after losing to ISU.
‘02 is the only really good team Kirk had had that lost to ISU.
One thing I would be concerned about if I were ISU is losing the coaches they have. Campbell is apparently going to take over OC duties and probably have to help with the OL as well since they hired a grad assistant to be the OL coach which was a questionable move. They lost their RB coach to Northwestern and replaced him with a young kid who was moved off of RB coach at Illinois to be a quote "offensive analyst".
Iowa vs ISU: A history lesson (Ferentz Era only)
1999: 10-17 L (Iowa is bad)
2000: 14-24 L (Iowa is bad)
2001: 14-17 L (Iowa is pretty good)
2002: 31-36 L (Iowa is very good)
2003: 40-21 W (Iowa is good)
2004: 17-10 W (Iowa is good)
2005: 3-23 L (Iowa is pretty good)
2006: 27-17 W (Iowa is mediocre)
2007: 13-15 L (Iowa is bad)
2008: 17-5 W (Iowa is good)
2009: 35-3 W (Iowa is very good)
2010: 35-7 W (Iowa is good)
2011: 41- 44 L (Iowa is pretty good)
2012: 6-9 L (Iowa is bad)
2013: 27-21 W (Iowa is good)
2014: 17-20 L (Iowa is pretty good)
2015: 31-17 W (Iowa is very good)
2016: 42-3 W (Iowa is pretty good)
2017: 44-41 W (Iowa is pretty good to good)
Right now, I'd probably surmise that Iowa could potentially land anywhere from being pretty good to very good this season. I'd probably assert that Iowa is most likely around good to very good.
When Iowa is bad ... empirically, Iowa has lost. Even when Iowa is pretty good ... Iowa has tended to lose. When Iowa is good to very good ... Iowa has tended to win. In fact, 2002 and 2006 are two of the bigger outliers of the series. However, I'd also assert that last year was very close to being one of the few years when a "good" Iowa team lost to the Cyclones. Fortunately for the Hawks ... Stanley and ISM had some last second heroic up their sleeves (along with my wire-transfers to the refs).
Interestingly, Iowa has been batting 70% over the past decade against the Cyclones.
1999: 10-17 L (Iowa is bad)
2000: 14-24 L (Iowa is bad)
2001: 14-17 L (Iowa is pretty good)
2002: 31-36 L (Iowa is very good)
2003: 40-21 W (Iowa is good)
2004: 17-10 W (Iowa is good)
2005: 3-23 L (Iowa is pretty good)
2006: 27-17 W (Iowa is mediocre)
2007: 13-15 L (Iowa is bad)
2008: 17-5 W (Iowa is good)
2009: 35-3 W (Iowa is very good)
2010: 35-7 W (Iowa is good)
2011: 41- 44 L (Iowa is pretty good)
2012: 6-9 L (Iowa is bad)
2013: 27-21 W (Iowa is good)
2014: 17-20 L (Iowa is pretty good)
2015: 31-17 W (Iowa is very good)
2016: 42-3 W (Iowa is pretty good)
2017: 44-41 W (Iowa is pretty good to good)
Right now, I'd probably surmise that Iowa could potentially land anywhere from being pretty good to very good this season. I'd probably assert that Iowa is most likely around good to very good.
When Iowa is bad ... empirically, Iowa has lost. Even when Iowa is pretty good ... Iowa has tended to lose. When Iowa is good to very good ... Iowa has tended to win. In fact, 2002 and 2006 are two of the bigger outliers of the series. However, I'd also assert that last year was very close to being one of the few years when a "good" Iowa team lost to the Cyclones. Fortunately for the Hawks ... Stanley and ISM had some last second heroic up their sleeves (along with my wire-transfers to the refs).
Interestingly, Iowa has been batting 70% over the past decade against the Cyclones.
Also, it's pretty wild how close most games turn out to be in the series.
The lesson to be learned here ... the safest bet is for the game to be a close one!
Not sure I agree with your assessment. Two of the years you describe as “pretty good” with ISU losses, Iowa was one game over 500
The descriptor is meant to indicate what sort of team the Hawks produced on the season. That's not to say that the Hawks were particularly good when they actually played the Cyclones.
Yep I understand. I didn’t go back and look at those teams in greater detail I just noticed that a lot of them didn’t have great records. Probably good examples of kirks slow start teams.
I think the previous poster was right when he said other than 2002 Kirk has never had a really good team lose to the clones. Still it has happened far to often.
What has happened far too often? Losing to ISU? Or a good Iowa team losing to ISU? The ISU game has been a good barometer (other than 2002) as to whether Iowa has enough to be really good. It doesn't mean that a win over ISU will result in a great season, just that if the Iowa team is going to turn out to be really good/great, a good early barometer is whether Iowa can beat ISU.
As to what KF's record should or shouldn't be against ISU, he's won 7 of the last 10 against Iowa State, with the losses all by 3 points. Of the 7 wins, 5 by double digits (and wins of 28, 39 32 among those. A .700 mark against any P5 team is good. Of course, the last decade isn't the totality of KF's record against ISU, so he has to own that as well.
Were you paying attention? We were deep at WR last year. There was no need for a freshman to burn his redshirt year. We had former starters relegated to third team last year. WR was the deepest position on the field last year. It still is.
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