Is Kirk leaving us worse that Hayden did?

[ClarindaA's]

I don’t see any offensive talent in the next few years, and there also appears to be a drop coming on the defensive side of the ball. Hayden left the cupboards not completely bare, a few snacks here and there. Kirk’s offensive philosophy has made recruiting offensive players….well, top flight players, impossible. It’s going to affect the defensive recruiting as well. Am I the only one who sees several years of losing ahead, regardless of who is coaching next year?

 

[obfuscating]

KF can right the ship in 4yrs if he removes his offensive philosophy, his son as OC\QB coach, the OL coach, and retains all other coaches. He needs to go hire a proven OC\QB\OL coach to set this program up, anything less and he has lost all cognitive function of truly wanting the program to succeed.

 

[Birky]

Currently, it’s not close. Not anywhere close. In a roster sense, not within 100 miles. They are not talentless, they are however not put in any position to succeed on offense, and then that is exacerbated by some crippling injuries.

Iowa lost on Saturday. What a long two weeks are in for…

 

[RollingBallofButcherKnives]

I don’t see any offensive talent in the next few years, and there also appears to be a drop coming on the defensive side of the ball. Hayden left the cupboards not completely bare, a few snacks here and there. Kirk’s offensive philosophy has made recruiting offensive players….well, top flight players, impossible. It’s going to affect the defensive recruiting as well. Am I the only one who sees several years of losing ahead, regardless of who is coaching next year?

If he leaves after this year, with the portal, I think Iowa can still be competitive. Of course that depends on who is brought in as coach but with Iowa’s history of paying well it should be able to get a good candidate. If he stays, recruiting will nose dive even worse than it is heading now…

 

[littlez]

KF can right the ship in 4yrs if he removes his offensive philosophy, his son as OC\QB coach, the OL coach, and retains all other coaches. He needs to go hire a proven OC\QB\OL coach to set this program up, anything less and he has lost all cognitive function of truly wanting the program to succeed.

Lol. Why do you guys keep typing this? So all of a sudden Kirk at 68 years old is going to fire his son (sure he is) the offensive line coach, and whatever position Budamyr is. This is all on him. 100%. He’s not doing any of that. He’s already said he doesn’t like to do it. Kirk is in charge. If he could have changed the offense he would have already done it. Is Brian over his head? Clearly. Whose fault is that? Not only did he give his son the keys to the offense he also then doubled down and made him QB coach.

 

[Bearhawk0505]

We have good young RBs, TE room seems to be in very shape, hopefully young OL are good, which by reports about scout team, they are. All defensive positions seem to be in great shape for future except maybe need to bolster CB depth. It is a perfect time to bring in a new OC and hopefully attract some serviceable WR. Maybe our FR QB is good, and from what we have seen Labas appears serviceable

 

[Birky]

(Iowa loses one game to Minnesota, with a massive assist from the zebras)

This board: If everything aligns perfectly, Iowa could have a competitive team again in half a decade.

Calm the fvck down. Iowa will be quite good next year, if they hire any random high school coach to run the offense, and Kirk leaves him the fvck alone. If they don’t, I have feeling they’ll be competitive. Just like they have been nearly every year for the last 45 years.

 

[RollingBallofButcherKnives]

We have good young RBs, TE room seems to be in very shape, hopefully young OL are good, which by reports about scout team, they are. All defensive positions seem to be in great shape for future except maybe need to bolster CB depth. It is a perfect time to bring in a new OC and hopefully attract some serviceable WR. Maybe our FR QB is good.

Yep, and Deacon said the offense was very close to “clicking” before this last game…news out of practice is pure bs

 

[ClarindaA's]

(Iowa loses one game to Minnesota, with a massive assist from the zebras)

This board: If everything aligns perfectly, Iowa could have a competitive team again in half a decade.

Calm the fvck down. Iowa will be quite good next year, if they hire any random high school coach to run the offense, and Kirk leaves him the fvck alone. If they don’t, I have feeling they’ll be competitive. Just like they have been nearly every year for the last 45 years.

We are not reacting to the Minnesota loss, we are reacting to three years of offensive decline, with no sign of hope. It has a snowball effect on recruiting. He needs to get out now, or at least turn the offense over to a real OC and leave it up to them. He’s lost the right to have a say on offense.

 

[ft254]

We have good young RBs, TE room seems to be in very shape, hopefully young OL are good, which by reports about scout team, they are. All defensive positions seem to be in great shape for future except maybe need to bolster CB depth. It is a perfect time to bring in a new OC and hopefully attract some serviceable WR. Maybe our FR QB is good, and from what we have seen Labas appears serviceable

Attract WRs. Laughable. With what?

Ferentz had skated with soft schedules in a weak division for years. He hasn't recruited WRs and Iowa's offense deterioration has reflected this. Blame the OC but the problem is deeper.

Ferentz can't accept the game has changed. Players (dynamic players) want to play exciting football. Not 5 yds and out. 3 yds off tackle. Every other play. TEs are not WRs.

When he leaves the program will be a mess.

 

[icwesthawk]

hire any random high school coach to run the offense, and Kirk leaves him the fvck alone

Hasn't happened in the previous 25 years. What makes you think it's going to happen anytime soon?

 

[auntie_fah]

Ferentz had skated with soft schedules in a weak division for years.

@torbee

 

[TnT_Hawks]

As far as how we’re perceived as a program?
Yes.

 

[hexumhawk]

You just need to bring in a proven OC and recruit your ass off for skilled positions. The rest of the team has talent. I would say we have talent at OL and TE as well, just needs coached up.

 

[DewHawk]

JMO but I think he will not leave on his own accord, keep junior on staff, and run the program into the ground.

 

[hawkirugged17]

The last 4 games of Hayden's career in 1998 were:

31-0 loss vs (9) Wisconson
36-14 loss at Purdue
45-14 loss vs (7) Ohio State
49-7 loss at Minnesota (who finished 5-6)

Was at the last game in Metrodome. It was uncompetitive and the team was completely deflated. That is the bar.

 

[hawkisoaker]

Can’t get dumber than this post. 1 game away from the BIG Champ game last yr, shud be 7-1 this yr with a completely depleted OFF personnel.
The last 8 yrs has done the following:

8-5
10-4
6-2
10-3
8-5
9-4
8-5
12-2

It’s stupid ass shit posting fan attitudes like this that keeps some instate recruits away, other out of state recruits from deciding Iowa, bc all their is, is the small majority loud ass Whitney flakes spewing dumb shit like this to set the fan base tone outside of Iowa…. Well done.

 

[IsaacHarrison]

Can’t get dumber than this post. 1 game away from the BIG Champ game last yr, shud be 7-1 this yr with a completely depleted OFF personnel.
The last 8 yrs has done the following:

8-5
10-4
6-2
10-3
8-5
9-4
8-5
12-2

It’s stupid ass shit posting fan attitudes like this that keeps some instate recruits away, other out of state recruits from deciding Iowa, bc all their is, is the small majority loud ass Whitney flakes spewing dumb shit like this to set the fan base tone outside of Iowa…. Well done.

Honestly, why would any recruit want to play for this offense after these last 2 years? TE maybe. Other than that we have no shot at recruiting a decent QB, WR or even a RB. I dont think there is an affordable amount of money we could pay a QB or WR to come here anymore.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

Not even remotely close to the same as Hayden. We have talent on both the lines, and the overall talent on defense is better. Plus, Kinnick Stadium is much improved, and we have a solid 20+ more years now of proven NFL talent. The program, facility, and recruiting foundation is much more stable than when Hayden left.

 

[cidhawkeye]

KF inherited a little more talent than most people realize

 

[SDHN2013]

The last 4 games of Hayden's career in 1998 were:

31-0 loss vs (9) Wisconson
36-14 loss at Purdue
45-14 loss vs (7) Ohio State
49-7 loss at Minnesota (who finished 5-6)

Was at the last game in Metrodome. It was uncompetitive and the team was completely deflated. That is the bar.

I was at the Wisconsin game. I don’t think the offense made it past the 50 until the last drive then just barely.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Can’t get dumber than this post. 1 game away from the BIG Champ game last yr, shud be 7-1 this yr with a completely depleted OFF personnel.
The last 8 yrs has done the following:

8-5
10-4
6-2
10-3
8-5
9-4
8-5
12-2

It’s stupid ass shit posting fan attitudes like this that keeps some instate recruits away, other out of state recruits from deciding Iowa, bc all their is, is the small majority loud ass Whitney flakes spewing dumb shit like this to set the fan base tone outside of Iowa…. Well done.

It’s our offense that keeps recruits away. An elite defense has been the reason we have won. We’ve wasted cfp type defense

 

[Hawkeyes4Life247]

KF inherited a little more talent than most people realize

Exactly. Hayden's coaching staff took a hit those last few years, but 1997 was a good season that could have been great without the injuries, and his recruiting classes in 98 and 99 were the foundation of Ferentz' best year in 2002. Offensive linemen who were still Hayden recruits include, Sam Aiello, Robert Gallery, Andy Lightfoot, David Porter, Eric Rothwell, Eric Steinbach, Ben Sobieski, Jason Hoveland, and more. Ferentz did a good job brining in his own recruits, especially JUCO skill guys, but the notion that the "cupboards were empty" is far from accurate. Chuck Long was on that staff and also landed Jon Beutjer. Had Long remained, Beutjer's Iowa story may have played out differently (although then we never get Brad Banks). Beutjer did end up doing well at Illinois for a year or two.

 

[torbee]

@torbee

As pointed out with data the other day, this is a lazy and incorrect "take" many fans have.

There are only about 15 or so programs that wouldn't change places with Iowa under Ferentz in a heartbeat.

Iowa has deficiencies and the offensive morass is a massive, massive problem that could very well be the ultimate undoing of the Ferentz dynasty. But we don't need to shit on the actual, objective success Iowa has achieved historically to make that point.

 

[bradaf]

I don’t see any offensive talent in the next few years, and there also appears to be a drop coming on the defensive side of the ball. Hayden left the cupboards not completely bare, a few snacks here and there. Kirk’s offensive philosophy has made recruiting offensive players….well, top flight players, impossible. It’s going to affect the defensive recruiting as well. Am I the only one who sees several years of losing ahead, regardless of who is coaching next year?

McNamara and All would disagree. Both top flight offensive recruits and transfers. McNamara getting hurt in fall camp hurt his ability to get timing and reps with the receivers and he played hurt and now out for the season as is All and Lachey.

 

[auntie_fah]

As pointed out with data the other day, this is a lazy and incorrect "take" many fans have.

There are only about 15 or so programs that wouldn't change places with Iowa under Ferentz in a heartbeat.

Iowa has deficiencies and the offensive morass is a massive, massive problem that could very well be the ultimate undoing of the Ferentz dynasty. But we don't need to shit on the actual, objective success Iowa has achieved to make that point.

i still laugh that you think Iowa would have similar results if they were in the big ten east.

I gave you the records vs big ten east opponents since east/west was a thing. A lot of wins against indiana, maryland, rutgers. A lot of seasons that Iowa dodged Michigan and Ohio State. Not a lot of wins against Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State during that time.

Facing Penn State, Michigan and Ohio State is gauranteed at least 2 Ls a year, and then you better hope Michigan state doesn’t get you and then you dont trip against the rest of the east schedule or the crossover opponents in the west.

 

[torbee]

i still laugh that you think Iowa would have similar results if they were in the big ten east.

I gave you the records vs big ten east opponents since east/west was a thing. A lot of wins against indiana, maryland, rutgers. A lot of seasons that Iowa dodged Michigan and Ohio State. Not a lot of wins against Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State during that time.

Facing Penn State, Michigan and Ohio State is gauranteed at least 2 Ls a year, and then you better hope Michigan state doesn’t get you and then you dont trip against the rest of the east schedule or the crossover opponents in the west.

Wow, you've really cracked the code that it's easier to beat average and bad teams than elite teams.

Stellar analysis.

 

[hawkisoaker]

Honestly, why would any recruit want to play for this offense after these last 2 years? TE maybe. Other than that we have no shot at recruiting a decent QB, WR or even a RB. I dont think there is an affordable amount of money we could pay a QB or WR to come here anymore.

Again, we recruit lineman, lbs, and TEs. That’s our gig, and gives us a chance. We’ll never be a destination for specialty players and OFF weapons, no history of such before KF or during. Weather, population, other cold powerhouse programs near by etc. huge obstacles. KF knows where he can make a dent and get tons of NFL respect, thus continued interest in those area from recruits.

 

[auntie_fah]

Wow, you've really cracked the code that it's easier to beat average and bad teams than elite teams.

Stellar analysis.

Youre the one who thought my take that iowa would be indiana if they were in the east was lazy.

Im glad you recognize that iowa has indeed dodged the heavy hitters that indiana doesn’t get to avoid and pad their wins against a weak schedule

 

[Birky]

Hasn't happened in the previous 25 years. What makes you think it's going to happen anytime soon?

Of course he would not. In fact, the pattern is that whoever takes over after Brian will just be worse.

To say that it looks like Kirk might leave the program in worse shape than Hayden did is too stupid to find a word in the English language to describe.

The OP is either too young to remember 1998/99, is experiencing some sort of Mandela effect, or just hates Ferentz.

 

[BHCrusader2010]

I don’t see any offensive talent in the next few years, and there also appears to be a drop coming on the defensive side of the ball. Hayden left the cupboards not completely bare, a few snacks here and there. Kirk’s offensive philosophy has made recruiting offensive players….well, top flight players, impossible. It’s going to affect the defensive recruiting as well. Am I the only one who sees several years of losing ahead, regardless of who is coaching next year?

Both were soft scheduling frauds, that never won anything aside a few big games in two decades of coaching. Big deal.

 

[Birky]

Youre the one who thought my take that iowa would be indiana if they were in the east was lazy.

Im glad you recognize that iowa has indeed dodged the heavy hitters that indiana doesn’t get to avoid and pad their wins against a weak schedule

Wait, what? You think Iowa is Indiana, but just happens to be in the West?

The OP does not have the dumbest post in the thread. Holy fvck. Please tell me you accidentally omitted a couple of words in your post, or are exaggerating for effect.

 

[torbee]

Wait, what? You think Iowa is Indiana, but just happens to be in the West?

The OP does not have the dumbest post in the thread. Holy fvck. Please tell me you accidentally omitted a couple of words in your post, or are exaggerating for effect.

No, he's been beating that drum for days.

Even when I pointed out that Iowa has a much higher winning percentage against the East's "Big 3" over its past 10 games with all three, he still insisted Iowa would "be Indiana" if it played in the East.

 

[BHoppy]

We have good young RBs, TE room seems to be in very shape, hopefully young OL are good, which by reports about scout team, they are. All defensive positions seem to be in great shape for future except maybe need to bolster CB depth. It is a perfect time to bring in a new OC and hopefully attract some serviceable WR. Maybe our FR QB is good, and from what we have seen Labas appears serviceable

This is true, but a few weeks ago I would never of thought of some of our good players entering the transfer portal. But now I an not sure, hope not, but we will have to wait and see.

 

[Birky]

No, he's been beating that drum for days.

Even when I pointed out that Iowa has a much higher winning percentage against the East's "Big 3" over its past 10 games with all three, he still insisted Iowa would "be Indiana" if it played in the East.

Holy hell…It’s hard to describe how dumb that is.

Iowa would likely have been Michigan State, if we are in the business of trying find the closest comp in the East.

 

[auntie_fah]

Wait, what? You think Iowa is Indiana, but just happens to be in the West?

The OP does not have the dumbest post in the thread. Holy fvck. Please tell me you accidentally omitted a couple of words in your post, or are exaggerating for effect.

Torbee, in another thread, pointed to Iowas record and doesnt think being in the B1G west played a role in that and bragged about their record against the B1G east. I said that Iowa would be indiana if they played in the east instead.

Torbee took exception, saying it was a lazy argument I listed the Big 10 east opponents followed by the number of games they played since 2014. Torbee was impressed with the record, despite most of those wins being racked up against Indiana, Maryland and Rutgers and mentioned iowas number of wins being behind Michigan and Ohio State

Iowa dodged Ohio state and Michigan the most scheduling wise, along with Michigan state (which seems to be a tossup more often than not) which indiana doesn’t have a luxury to do.

While it may be a tad hyperbolic to say they would be indiana exactly, i still sat they would be closer to indiana than ohio state and mchigan if they switched divisions with Indiana

 

[blhawk]

As far as anyone knows Kirk isn't leaving so this debate should be postponed til he actually announces which could be years from now. In 1997 few would have predicted things would be where they were at the end of 98...things can change fast, even back then.

With the portal being what it is today the talent level could completely fall off a cliff for whoever takes over. The portal will also give the new guy a good shot at replenishing it if he can get kids to buy in. A lot has changed since 1998

 

[auntie_fah]

No, he's been beating that drum for days.

Even when I pointed out that Iowa has a much higher winning percentage against the East's "Big 3" over its past 10 games with all three, he still insisted Iowa would "be Indiana" if it played in the East.

@torbee
I dont care about the last ten games.

I gave you the results against Big ten east opponents since the east/west divisions became a thing. Here is the post i made: please note how many times we have played michigan and ohio state over the years, our records against them and the record against Penn State and tell me if they played in the east they would be as successful

2014
Indiana (w)
Maryland (l)

2015
Maryland (w)
Indiana (w)
Mich state (B1GCG) -(L)

2016
Rutgers (w)
Michigan (w)
Penn state (l)

2017
Penn state (l)
Michigan state (L)
Ohio state (w)


2018
Indiana (w)
Maryland (w)
Penn state (l)

2019
Rutgers (w)
Penn state (l)
Michigan (l)

2020
Michigan state (w)
Penn state (w)

2021
Indiana (w)
Maryland (w)
Penn state (w)
Mich (B1GCG) (l)

2022
Rutgers (w)
Mich (l)
Ohio state (l)

2023
Penn state (l)
Michigan state(w)
Rutgers tbd

If i went through the results correctly they end up like this

indiana: 4 games (4-0)

Penn State: 7 games (2-5)

Ohio State: 2 games (1-1)

Rutgers 4 games (3-0 with one to be played)

Maryland 4 games (3-1)

Michigan state 3 regular season games (2-1) plus Big 10 championship game loss

michigan 3 reg season games (1-2) plus 1 Big ten championsip team loss.

 

[hawkirugged17]

Exactly. Hayden's coaching staff took a hit those last few years, but 1997 was a good season that could have been great without the injuries, and his recruiting classes in 98 and 99 were the foundation of Ferentz' best year in 2002. Offensive linemen who were still Hayden recruits include, Sam Aiello, Robert Gallery, Andy Lightfoot, David Porter, Eric Rothwell, Eric Steinbach, Ben Sobieski, Jason Hoveland, and more. Ferentz did a good job brining in his own recruits, especially JUCO skill guys, but the notion that the "cupboards were empty" is far from accurate. Chuck Long was on that staff and also landed Jon Beutjer. Had Long remained, Beutjer's Iowa story may have played out differently (although then we never get Brad Banks). Beutjer did end up doing well at Illinois for a year or two.

The team had some talent. No denying it.

However, the way the 1998 season ended was demoralizing. They lost their last 4 games by a combined 161-35. There was no excitement, no juice, no nothing in the program.

Minnesota (a non-bowl team) beat Iowa 49-7 in the Metrodome. Iowa had 68 plays for 221 yards. Minnesota had 73 plays for 501 yards. And, that is with Minnesota's QB Billy Cockerham going 9-23-1-139 yards. It was bad. Almost Bob Commings bad.

Minnesota-Iowa 1998 FB Box Score - University of Minnesota Athletics

Box Score (Final) Iowa vs Minnesota (Nov 21, 1998 at Minneapolis) Score by Quarters 1 2 3 4 Score ----------------- -- -- -- -- ----- Iowa...................

gophersports.com

 

[JLDHAWK]

KF can right the ship in 4yrs if he removes his offensive philosophy, his son as OC\QB coach, the OL coach, and retains all other coaches. He needs to go hire a proven OC\QB\OL coach to set this program up, anything less and he has lost all cognitive function of truly wanting the program to succeed.

I'm not going thru 4 more years of this shit