ll be darned. You aren't kidding. You really are that dense.
Well thank you for the wonderful name calling. It's good to know that you needed to go there. I will see if I can stay away from that and perhaps provide some clarity on my thought process no matter how dense it is to you.
1. The numbers are TICKETS SOLD. My point is that sometimes people who have bought tickets do not attend the game. often quite significant, between ACTUAL ATTENDANCE and TICKETS SOLD.
The numbers are TICKETS SOLD - I have already agreed that is the case and completely understand how the process works.
There is one source for those numbers. It doesn't matter how many places you see the same number, it's TICKETS SOLD - Completely agree and thank you so very much for the redundancy. Very much appreciated for a simpleton such as myself. Even though you usually fail to answer questions I am going to ask one any way. Have you ever read an article about a sports game where in that article it says something along the lines of "a crowd generously listed at 15,000" I know I have and as old as you are and how well read you are and the connections you have in the newspaper industry I am sure you have read something along those lines. A simple Yes or No would suffice, no spin required.
My point is that sometimes people who have bought tickets do not attend the game. - Really?There is a series of commercials about Captain Obvious. You made the rotation.
Thus there is a difference, often quite significant, between ACTUAL ATTENDANCE and TICKETS SOLD. - I would like to know what your criteria for "often" and "quite significant"is half of the games? 1/3 of the games? 5,000 people? 10,000 people?
The NCAA and the box score report TICKETS SOLD, not ACTUAL ATTENDANCE. - Somewhere a dead horse gets another scar from another beating. Just to clarify I UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ACTUAL ATTENDANCE AND TICKETS SOLD. I like that all caps thing, like I am shouting or something. And you called me the dense one.
2. I didn't say it happened all the time. I said an ISU advantage in TICKETS SOLD happened very rarely -- specifically I said I would be surprised if it happened even half a dozen times -- but that in terms of ACTUAL ATTENDANCE, it happened much more frequently in that time period.
I didn't say it happened all the time. - I don't believe I said that. If you knew me I tend to stay away from absolutes like that.
I said an ISU advantage in TICKETS SOLD happened very rarely - I agree with this. Although when you present later how good the Cyclones were and the riveting games that they were going to be involved in I am surprised their legendary fans didn't support better by actually buying tickets.
but that in terms of ACTUAL ATTENDANCE, it happened much more frequently in that time period. - So this means that there is a combination of things that have to happen, more people would be at the ISU game then tickets they sold. How did they get in? Comped tickets? Open gates and walk in? either way if your attendance is boosted by free tickets or no tickets needed than I would not be surprised if more people attended or the other variable is a large number of people who spent money on Iowa tickets chose not to attend that game. So if you can tell me the following. Did Iowa State have more people attend the games than tickets sold and how big was that number? Just a ball park works.
3. You pulled the 16,000 figure out of your hawkeye -- now I see you're saying 10,000 -- and I don't know where that came from. But anyone who has attended football games during a bad year knows that neither of those numbers would be particularly surprising, especially if the weather were bad. Last year, for instance, there were thousands of no-shows at the West Virginia game. The same was true in the bad old days at Iowa.
You pulled the 16,000 figure out of your hawkeye - I did just pull that out of my Hawkeye where ever you were going with that. In 1974 the spread between the TICKETS SOLD number was 16,181. So I was incorrect, I was off by 181. My bad
now I see you're saying 10,000 - My bad again, in 1977 it was a 9,856 variance in TICKETS SOLD, for those playing along it was 13,674 in 1975, 12,404 in 1976 and 4,009 in 1978.
But anyone who has attended football games during a bad year knows that neither of those numbers would be particularly surprising, especially if the weather were bad - Once again we completely agree on this. While there can be significant variances in weather from week to week I don't think the state of Iowa has a huge varied weather pattern between the central and eastern part of the state. Certainly not enough to make a much more frequently impact.
4. In regards to (3) above, I checked a couple of games
In regards to (3) above, I checked a couple of games to illustrate the point for you - Always good to cherry pick a couple of games when we have been looking at a 5 year window.
On Nov. 5, 1977, Iowa had 49,620 TICKETS SOLD for Indiana and ISU had 49,200 TICKETS SOLD for Colorado. ISU was 6-2 and ranked #19 nationally while Iowa had lost 5 of its previoius 6 games. If you think ACTUAL ATTENDANCE at Kinnick was larger than ACTUAL ATTENDANCE at Trice that day, you are an idiot. - Once again with the name calling, very nice of a respected senior citizen such as your self. Please tell me where I indicated that for that one game(in a 5 year window) Iowa had better ACTUAL ATTENDANCE.
Two weeks later, Iowa hosted Michigan State and ISU hosted Oklahoma State. The TICKETS SOLD were, respectively, 43,700 and 41,060. Iowa had lost 6 of its previous 8 games and was finishing yet another dismal year. ISU was 7-3 and headed for a second consecutive bowl game. you are an idiot. - Name calling repeated. I hope you feel better. Once again, please show me where I said during this ONE game, oops...now we are up to TWO games that the ACTUAL ATTENDANCE was better at Kinnick.
The interesting thing about these two games is that with such a juggernaut and going bowling for the 2nd game and with Iowa being sooooo dismal that the loyal supporters of ISU only bought 41,060 tickets for such an important Oklahoma State game, or that while being ranked #19 in the country that they couldn't even sell more tickets for a dismal Iowa team that was in the process of setting a consecutive non-winning season streak. So even when ISU was at the pinnacle of their program and Iowa was in the gutter more people chose to pay money to BUY TICKETS whether they ACTUALLY went to the game or not.
2 games pulled from a 5 year period doesn't really build a 'much more frequently' situation.
5. As I checked these matters, I discovered a factor that is significant if you're desperately looking for a reason to criticize my opinion:
As I checked these matters, I discovered a factor that is significant if you're desperately looking for a reason to criticize my opinion: - Never attempted to criticize your opinion, for such a well read poster I am a little surprised that you chose that approach, re -read my posts, I asked you to support your opinion. You chose not to, you instead used others opinions and supported it with nothing other than "I know so because I am old"
The weren't really a whole lot of Saturdays when both teams played at home. So it would be fair to say that my statement that it was fairly frequent for ISU to have larger ACTUAL ATTENDANCE when both played at home the same day might be an exaggeration. - Exaggeration is a good term. I don't believe I ever made the comparison to only apply to when both teams played at home on the same Saturday. I presented the picture in whole with facts.
If I had realized I might be dealing with an idiot (see #4 above), I would have phrased the statement differently. I would have said that while I'd be surprised if TICKETS SOLD favored Iowa as many as half a dozen times during the late '70s, the home games in which ACTUAL ATTENDANCE was higher at Ames were much more frequent.[/QUOTE] - Another name thrown out again, a tactic usually used by....well I will leave that alone.
Since this has been a nice little skirmish and one of us has stayed above board and not stooped to name calling and the other one is you I will ask you once again to clarify your positions on a couple of things.
During the 5 year period we have been looking at, on average was the ACTUAL ATTENDANCE at ISU higher than the tickets sold?
If no is the answer than the following, on average would have to have occurred. ISU would have to have EVERY TICKET SOLD used and the following to happen
16,181 people per game would have chosen not to use their ticket at Iowa - That would be 1/3 of the people missing each game. Not likely. Way more than for the West Virginia game mentioned earlier, for every game...lol
13,674 people per game would have chosen not to use their ticket at Iowa - Not likely as well
12,404 - You get the picture
9,856 - Ditto
4,004 - Getting close to reality, assuming 100% usage at ISU
So please keep the name calling to your self, my apologies that the questions I asked and you chose not to answer didn't meet your standard of excellence. We will agree to disagree. The numbers indicate that even in the darkest era of Iowa football the fans at Iowa supported their team with ACTUAL TICKETS sold. Whether they went to the game or not. ISU in their prime? Not as much. Carry on.