Joey Buckets has some work to do!
- Thread starter mazda1
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Imagine a moneyline parlay on the top 6 teams all losing.
Its games and atmospheres like this Gonzaga @ St Marys(CA) game that makes CBB, and this time of year, a great spectacle.
All of the AP Top 6 teams lose, on the same day, for the first time ever.
Hawks jumping up in to the Top 10 next week, boys!!! (haha, we wish)
All of the AP Top 6 teams lose, on the same day, for the first time ever.
Hawks jumping up in to the Top 10 next week, boys!!! (haha, we wish)
And as a possible cherry-on-top of that awesome sundae^, Utah State is in a close battle at home with Colorado St - early in the 2nd half.
Not sure if a win tonight puts USU back at 'Q1 win' status for the Hawks, but it can't hurt the USU Net rating beating one of the top MWC teams.
Not sure if a win tonight puts USU back at 'Q1 win' status for the Hawks, but it can't hurt the USU Net rating beating one of the top MWC teams.
How many losses would a team like Gonzaga have if they played in the Big Ten?
I don't really try to involve myself in these types of speculative games, because they're not in the B1G and most likely never will be, so its only guessing and debating.
But honestly, I think Gonzaga would do ok in a major conference like the B1G.
Few has gotten that program to a level where he is recruiting top talent and/or getting top transfers. (assuming the Zags' academic standards are allowed to stay same for athletes and not raised to meet the B1G standards)
I have no doubt Gonzaga would do "OK" in the BIG, but they sure as hell wouldn't run through the league unscathed like they do now. The key thing with programs like the Zags, is, would they EVER have become the Zags if they had been in a major conference from the beginning. Winning begets winning, and Few has built an incredible amount of momentum with his program. Would they be getting these lottery pick type transfers like they have the last several years if they were not a top five team every year. Just don't think so.
You can only succeed in the environment where you are. Kudos to Few and the coach before him (who went to Minnesota) for building them up to where they are now. If you plopped down Gonzaga in the Big 10 right now, of course they aren't going undefeated in the Big 10 year after year or having 1-2 losses at most. Too many quality opponents/road games to do that.
Doesn't really change their level of success they've had recently. They have won more games in the tournament or close to it than any other team in the past 5 years. There really isn't any benefit to Gonzaga in moving to a power conference at this point. They are near guaranteed to dominate their league every year. Few can schedule great non-con opponents, even if they don't do great against that competition in a given year they can go with their conference easily.
I see Gonzaga basketball similar to Cincinnati football. You can win a lot--maybe all--your games if you play subpar competition all the time.
If you want to be judged on a national scale, you have to play top-level competition. Cincy football doesn't do that, and neither does Gonzaga basketball. Go into Bloomington, East Lansing, West Lafayette, Piscataway, Champaign, Ann Arbor, and all the rest and see how you come out.
When you only have to play a couple of tough games, it's relatively easy to put up a great effort and have an excellent chance of success. But what about when you have to do it 20 times?
Credit to Gonzaga, but their conference cannot begin to compare to the Big Ten, Big Twelve, SEC, ACC . . . I don't think their league is as tough as the Missouri Valley where UNI and Drake are among the top dogs. So Gonzaga gets to have a couple of months of workouts and then go into the NCAA tourney, win two or three games, and you're among the nation's elite. Great gig if you can get it.
How many sour grapes did it take to make your whine?
Why do people spend so much time complaining about this and making up fantasy world scenarios? Gonzaga is a rock-solid, elite basketball school. Building that kind of program in the middle of nowhere Washington while playing in a conference where most people couldn't name 4 teams is amazing, and they've proven themselves in the NCAA Tourney over and over. I don't see why people can't just admire that. Would you really rather see more Duke, Kentucky and Kansas being discussed and in the Final Four? Gonzaga is what makes college basketball so fun. Enjoy it.
Their best chance was last season, in a region that was laid out perfectly to get them to the FF. Hit a buzzer-beater against 11-seed UCLA (who should’ve been a 7 or 8), then finally played a great team. The boat-racing Baylor put on them was highly satisfying.
Who's whining, Mrs. Few. I just stated some facts to support my opinion. Got a problem with that? Too damn bad.
I said Gonzaga is good and takes advantage of being in a weak, weak conference. I said it would find itself in a little different situation W-L wise if it played in a major conference like the Big Ten. I said Gonzaga gets a free pass to the NCAA tourney every year after playing a couple months of exhibition games. I said they win two or three tourney games and they are an elite national team. You disagree? Cool. But I'll stand by every pixel I printed, even if you don't like it, OK? LOL
I don’t think too many. They are really good. I used to think the same way. They’ve been far too consistent for too long. People used to say that about UNLV
Gonzaga is top 5 in NCAA wins since 2010. That puts them with the elite teams. They have 2 final 4’s as well including the championship game last year. Of course they would lose games in a major conference. I actually think their guard court will hold them back this year in the tournament. Probably still make the elite 8 at worst.
Yeah but they probably play a tougher pre-conference schedule than anyone in the country. This year they played Texas, Duke, UCLA, Texas Tech, and Alabama. All five of those teams are light years better than anyone Iowa played and 4 of them are ranked higher right now than anyone in the B1G with the exception of Purdue.
They got worked at home by a mediocre Alabama. A team that will have 12 or 13 losses when it’s all said and done.
Gonzaga’s advantageous scheduling carries over to the NCAA tournament. Although Gonzaga played six tough non-conference games this year, two were played at Gonzaga, one at ”neutral” Seattle (which it lost to Alabama) before 15,000 Gonzaga fans, and the others on neutral courts in the West, to which Gonzaga fans, who tend to be fairly well off, travel easily. Gonzaga‘s tough conference road games come at BYU (18,000 seat arena), and San Francisco and St. Mary’s, both of which have arenas seating around 3,500. Typically in recent tears Gonzaga has gotten No. 1 or 2 seeds in the NCAA tournament. Their games recently have tended to be played in venues in the West, easily accessible by their fans (and Gonzaga has lots of fans throughout the west). That generally guarantees them home-crowd environments, at least through their first two NCAA games. When Iowa played Gonzaga in the tournament a few years ago, the games was played at Seattle’s Key arena. That night I walked into an environment of perhaps 1,000 Iowa fans and 14,000 rabid Gonzaga fans. I have attended many games at Gonzaga’s 6,000 seat home arena and the Seattle environment that night was Gonzaga’s McCarthy Center on steroids. Gonzaga has parlayed its pre-eminent status in a weak league into pre-conference and NCAA games that typically allow them to play before non-hostile crowds. I have been to conference games at Portland, where Gonzaga fans outnumbered Portland fans, and the WCC tournament venue in Las Vegas typically is filled with 2/3 Gonzaga fans. I agree that hostile Big 10 venues would result in Gonzaga losing 4 or 5 conference games. By the way, my recollection is that Gonzaga has never beaten a Biy 10 team on its home court although it rarely takes on such challenges.
Winning begets more winning. Win the conference, get a high seed in NCAA guarantees 2 or 3 more wins and you look like a top 25 team. Next year you get a few top 25 players on board and do slightly better - still top 20 team. Next year get a top 10 player and you are a top 5 team playing against vastly inferior (generally) conference teams and at end of regular season you are 25-5 or better. Rinse and repeat.
Play in a major conference and you would start losing 3 or 4 more games a year and now you are 20-10 and not so many highly rated recruits. And down you start. Come on over the B1G or ACC or SEC!
Play in a major conference and you would start losing 3 or 4 more games a year and now you are 20-10 and not so many highly rated recruits. And down you start. Come on over the B1G or ACC or SEC!
How often does a Big Ten team go into a hostile road environment non conference besides maybe the ACC challenge? Most games now are on neutral site courts, which I hate. Again, we had our chances last year, a 2 seed with 2 NBA players and a future top 15 pick and got run out of the gym by a 7 seed. Still have to beat who’s in front of you.
As far as I'm concerned Gonzaga is just another Duke or Kansas now. They're always good, given a high seed and positioned where they will have the most success.
I would not argue that their really good. We saw them first hand last year and in the tourney the last several. What I am saying is that if they had always been in a major bloodbath conference, I don't think they would ever have become what we see today. Recruiting as you said to the middle of No where. Would Few still be there if they hadn't been winning 25 plus games a year? Maybe, and maybe not. He may very well have moved on to another school except he realizes the unique situation he has now. Would they be getting lottery pick transfers every year. I don't think so if they were say 22 -8 or 21-10 annually. Its all conjecture, but NO I don't think they would be the Zags we see today of they'd been in a major conference the last 40 years.
They were (and are) a tiny school in the middle of nowhere. That the beauty of basketball. It’s not like football, of which they don’t even have a team which is why no major conference wants them. I enjoy and envy what they have become. It’s a cool true rags to riches story.
And I have no problem with the Zags. As you've said its kind of a cool story. My response was to the question if Gonzaga would have been this good in a major conference, thats all I'm stating to. IF they had been Historically n a major, then NO they would never have become what they are.
I have no problem with the Zags as well! I do believe the big difference playing in the Big 10 would be prep time between games. Imagine playing Ohio State and your next game is Purdue followed by Illinois. Versus preparing for Pepperdine next!
I agree, this year’s version is not nearly the squad of last year. No Suggs is a huge drop off, Timme is just OK and Holmgren is a bit overrated IMO. I’ll be shocked if the make the F4 again.
Kind of agree with this. I’m honestly surprised how high their Kenpom number is. They will have trouble with athletic guards in the tournament.
That makes zero sense.
So you think drake has a better shot at building a national championship team than we do?
Is this because the major conferences have created and maintain a tier system for their premier programs and take steps to ensure those finishes?
Not just picking out 1 or 2 teams but maintaining a top tier of programs that almost always finish with shiny high seed.
This tiered system is now built into the hard drive after generations of the same thing happening year after year. The Big Ten is the most overtly dishonest. The Big Ten officials never get punished or fired and you all know there are outrageously officiated games and the same officials always come back.
So, Gonzaga would compete quite well if they joined a PF conference now. Had they joined 20 years ago they would have not been able to overcome the tier system and compete for league titles.
If this is true how did our women just beat Michigan by 30 and win the championship? Because you have always claimed we’re not one of those teams.
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