Joey McKenna Transferring possibility

[dicemen99]

I am not implying that at all. I am just saying that people have assumed they know the conversations the coaches are having and we do not. I think Cael is operating with in the rules. He happens to have some great resources at his disposal. A hot recruiting area and an incredible likable personality that makes kids believe they can do anything. Kids are drawn to him. He really seems to relate to them and the kids who wrestler for him say only nice things. In no way am I saying he is not following the rules.

I don't remember you being so sensitive.

No problem. I guess I just don't get your take on why decommitment situations are so different between Iowa and PSU and how you tied it in with the Brands not talking money before July 1st.

Not being particularly sensitive at all, and happy to discuss wrestling with you anytime. I guess this thread just took it's toll on me, lol. Again, PSU - 2 decommitments four years ago. Iowa - 4 decommitments in the last 12 months. Yet, the implication of the majority of posts on this thread is that Cael is pissing off recruits by disrespecting them, reneging on offers, overrecruiting them, etc., while Brands is, well, Brands, so he must be doing everything right.

 

[HawkeyeEmpire]

No. There isn't a whole lot of Tom Brands bashing. Occasionally there is, but you will read more "Brands appreciation" comments than "Brands bashing" comments. Spyker's rants do not count.

Now, making fun of delusional HR posters. Yep.
Come on though. When you go through and read these threads there has to be an occasion or two where you think, "christ we sound delusional and whiney." I mean, you have a thread about McKenna transferring and you twist it into Penn State and Cael. You all complain about Penn State posters hijacking every thread and making it about Penn State. You don't need any Penn Staters to guide you down that path. You do that all by yourselves. You have a collective Cael fixation.

Really? Looks pretty obvious to me from this thread that PSU fans have a collective Iowa fixation.

 

[el dub]

Really? Looks pretty obvious to me from this thread that PSU fans have a collective Iowa fixation.

Which is obvious by the number of PSU posters who hang out on this IOWA board… (Btw, I DO enjoy some of these guy's input.)

 

[ih8iast8]

This thread needs to die.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I think McKenna should choose to attend the University of Iowa and participate in the wrestling program.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

We (you) can't say for sure what Tom did or did not do. Those kids committed to Iowa way before they could be talked to legally. I get the impression that the Brands did everything by the book and waited until they could talk to them. At that point in time the kids may have realized that there was no money for them and they were just to good to walk on so they went elsewhere. I am not even sure you could call what happened to Meija and Renteria being recruited over. Sometimes the coaches have to remain quiet even if a kid includes them in a comment.
My sense of what happened to Meija and Renteria is quite different to what is happening with all the stars going to PSU. I am not saying Cael is doing anything wrong or unethical, but it is a different animal and situation.

So, you don't know what Tom is telling his recruits, but you throw unethical shade at Cael, as if you have some idea what Cael is telling his recruits.

 

[Rustys Dad]

I think McKenna should choose to attend the University of Iowa and participate in the wrestling program.

Hey now ... that's enough of that ... how dare you talk about the original topic ...

 

[Rustys Dad]

This thread needs to die.

Yes ... it should have died about 6 pages ago ...

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

It is pretty obvious to everyone that PSU was wiling and able to put money into the wrestling program that ISU would not or could not at the time (it seems they have changed with Dresser now). It sure seems to me that Cael made the right choice for him and a good choice.

I am not sure without the money of PSU, he could have built such a dynasty. The same goes for Gable. What Carver did and the HWC was a huge advantage. Aside from being a great coach, he had the money (the jack - as he put it) to be super successful.

Cael is also a great coach, but the money ( aka the jack) he has is helping him pull away from the field. Why can't people with B & G glasses as well as people with B &W glasses on see this and jus admit it?

I can't speak for the B&W crowd, but your last sentence has me perplexed about the B&G crowd. Not only have we admitted/acknowledged that the money at PSU has made the difference, but we've taken a whole lot of action -- and will be taking much, much more in the coming months -- to remedy exactly that problem. That's not to say that there aren't other factors that have helped them. Obviously, the treasure trove of talent in PA has helped, and they've recruited well. That said, finances have a lot to do with the resources a program has to assist in recruiting and generally make the program more attractive to elite talents.

So to answer your question, the B&G crowd most certainly has admitted that money has helped PSU. And money is part of what's going to help put Iowa back on top. Some might say it's unfortunate that college wrestling has come to this, but we can either bury our heads and lag behind PSU or we can roll up our sleeves and surpass them. Many of us have chosen the latter, and many more will.

 

[lookleft goright]

[QUOTE="WWDMHawkeye, post: 4401166, member: 14330"]I can't speak for the B&W crowd, but your last sentence has be perplexed about the B&G crowd. Not only have we admitted/acknowledged that the money at PSU has made the difference, but we've taken a whole lot of action -- and will be taking much, much more in the coming months -- to remedy exactly that problem. That's not to say that there aren't other factors that have helped them. Obviously, the treasure trove of talent in PA has helped, and they've recruited well. That said, finances have a lot to do with the resources a program has to assist in recruiting and generally make the program more attractive to elite talents.

So to answer your question, the B&G crowd most certainly has admitted that money has helped PSU. And money is what's going to help put Iowa back on top. Some might say it's unfortunate that college wrestling has come to this, but we can either bury our heads and lag behind PSU or we can roll up our sleeves and surpass them. Many of us have chosen the latter, and many more will.[/QUOTE]

I am too tired of it to try to explain. Also, some people say one thing and someone else says something else and I can't keep them all straight. WDM you seem level headed and pretty intelligent and you get it.

How about this as my last comment on this thread?

Cael and Brands are phenomenal coaches and right now it seems the money and resources are giving Cael and PSU a huge advantage. If it were reversed, we would be back to the Hawks totally dominating wrestling again.

Neither coach is cheating and it is best for the sport and the sanity and peace of mind of everyone involved to stop accusing either one of cheating, being a baby, being a loud mouth, being a cry baby, being a slimy human being, unless they are arrested on charges or charged in court.

Also, it does no good to bring up the past actions of some slime balls at a particular university and insinuate that other people practice similar tactics.

 

[pablow]

[/QUOTE
. . . WDM you seem level headed and pretty intelligent and you get it.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah - he puts all the toads on ignore. For the rest of us it kindergarten.

 

[sabula]

[/QUOTE
. . . WDM you seem level headed and pretty intelligent and you get it.

Yeah - he puts all the toads on ignore. For the rest of us it kindergarten.[/QUOTE]

Seeing the PSU fans over here, I'm not sure if I love the fact everyone hates our board, or hate the fact that everyone loves our board.

 

[Inspiteofourselves]

Where do you think McKenna will end up?

 

[Herkuleez5]

STFU about Carl and PSU and that goes for everyone! Makes me want to vomit just typing his name and you assholes made me do it.

 

[rossel 33]

Where do you think McKenna will end up?

why do you ask?

 

[IAChief32]

STFU about Carl and PSU and that goes for everyone! Makes me want to vomit just typing his name and you assholes made me do it.

 

[NRJ]

FWIW, a fairly plugged in poster on the Ohio State board commented that McKenna is down to PSU and tOSU and he implied that it's going to be tOSU.

 

[AFHawk86]

FWIW, a fairly plugged in poster on the Ohio State board commented that McKenna is down to PSU and tOSU and he implied that it's going to be tOSU.

He must want to work on his tan

 

[CumberlandHawk]

Seeing the PSU fans over here, I'm not sure if I love the fact everyone hates our board, or hate the fact that everyone loves our board.

Embrace the hate. It will set you free.

 

[edquinn06]

So if Joey doesn't go to PSU; that means coach f**bot didn't really want him right?

 

[IAChief32]

So if Joey doesn't go to PSU; that means coach f**bot didn't really want him right?

Now you're learning.

 

[rivalhawks]

Cael told them he wanted the top job. He, essentially, demanded they fire the guy who coached him. After being an assistant for 2 whole years. It was a dick move.

The truth comes out about Cael Sanderson At ISU:

It turns out, it was Cael that got Bobby Douglas fired at ISU back in 2006!

Book presents an interesting look at Douglas' life
A story from the Cedar Rapids Gazett this morning (4/17/11):
by jr.ogden@sourcemedia.net

Bobby Douglas was an interesting character while coaching at Arizona State and Iowa State.
He's even more interesting in Craig Sesker's new book, 'Bobby Douglas: Life and Legacy of an American Wrestling Legend.' Douglas' coaching resume is well-established, starting with one year at California-Santa Barbara, followed by 18 at ASU (including the 1988 NCAA title) and 14 in Ames.
What you might not know about Douglas is the odds he overcame to become the first African American state champion in Ohio high school history, an NAIA national champion at West Liberty (W.Va.), an All-American at Oklahoma State and, finally, an Olympian. After his mother was brutally attacked and left for dead (while Douglas watched), he grew up in poverty with his grandparents at 'Stop 32' in Blaine, Ohio.
You also may not have known Douglas grew up around baseball greats Phil and Joe Niekro and basketball star John Havlicek. As a matter of fact, Sesker writes, 'Phil Niekro Highway now runs by the Bobby Douglas Bridge on the way to John Havlicek Gymnasium at Bridgeport High School.' All three are Hall of Famers in their respec≠tive sports.
'I could hit Joe, but I couldn't hit Phil,' Douglas, a standout baseball and football player during his younger days, told Sesker.
There's also an interesting segment about his firing at Iowa State - al≠though athletics director Jamie Pollard never called it that at the time - and the role his star pupil, Cael Sanderson, played in that firing.
'The Ohio State job had come open and we couldn't risk losing Cael,' Pollard told Sesker. ' ...
Cael told me 'I'm either the head coach at Iowa State or I leave.' ' ISU didn't want to lose Sanderson as it lost Dan Gable to Iowa so many years earlier. Douglas was given the option to stay one more year, but didn't want to work under that cloud, knowing he wouldn't be coming back.
Douglas has never blamed Sanderson, then or now in this book, but his wife, Jackie, told Sesker 'I have a hard time forgiving Cael for what he did.' And Pollard now told Sesker if he knew Sanderson would pack up and leave for Penn State, he never would have made the change.

Hindsight.
Covering Douglas and the Cyclones for The Gazette from afar for all his years in Ames, I thought I knew the man pretty well. Sesker's book tells me differently. If you're a Cyclone wrestling fan, this is a must-read. Even if you're not an ISU booster or you're just a wrestling fan, it's worth your time.

http://d1wrestling.proboards.com/thread/3844/truth-comes-out-cael-sanderson

 

[Pennstate1985]

Sounds like Pollard got Douglas fired. Cael said I'll take one of two jobs for the 2006-07 season, and that was either the head coaching job at ISU or tOSU, and he gave Pollard first dibs. As far as I can tell, he didn't put a gun to Pollard's head, so Pollard made the choice in the best interests of ISU.

Happens every day in corporate America. Is this a surprise to anyone? A division VP comes into your office and asks what's up. You say, "I'm thinking about moving over to a rival company as dept head, but would stay if he had a viable alternative." Now the VP can either show you the door or ask if your bosses office is big enough.

 

[rider976]

The truth comes out about Cael Sanderson At ISU:

It turns out, it was Cael that got Bobby Douglas fired at ISU back in 2006!

Book presents an interesting look at Douglas' life
A story from the Cedar Rapids Gazett this morning (4/17/11):
by jr.ogden@sourcemedia.net

Bobby Douglas was an interesting character while coaching at Arizona State and Iowa State.
He's even more interesting in Craig Sesker's new book, 'Bobby Douglas: Life and Legacy of an American Wrestling Legend.' Douglas' coaching resume is well-established, starting with one year at California-Santa Barbara, followed by 18 at ASU (including the 1988 NCAA title) and 14 in Ames.
What you might not know about Douglas is the odds he overcame to become the first African American state champion in Ohio high school history, an NAIA national champion at West Liberty (W.Va.), an All-American at Oklahoma State and, finally, an Olympian. After his mother was brutally attacked and left for dead (while Douglas watched), he grew up in poverty with his grandparents at 'Stop 32' in Blaine, Ohio.
You also may not have known Douglas grew up around baseball greats Phil and Joe Niekro and basketball star John Havlicek. As a matter of fact, Sesker writes, 'Phil Niekro Highway now runs by the Bobby Douglas Bridge on the way to John Havlicek Gymnasium at Bridgeport High School.' All three are Hall of Famers in their respec≠tive sports.
'I could hit Joe, but I couldn't hit Phil,' Douglas, a standout baseball and football player during his younger days, told Sesker.
There's also an interesting segment about his firing at Iowa State - al≠though athletics director Jamie Pollard never called it that at the time - and the role his star pupil, Cael Sanderson, played in that firing.
'The Ohio State job had come open and we couldn't risk losing Cael,' Pollard told Sesker. ' ...
Cael told me 'I'm either the head coach at Iowa State or I leave.' ' ISU didn't want to lose Sanderson as it lost Dan Gable to Iowa so many years earlier. Douglas was given the option to stay one more year, but didn't want to work under that cloud, knowing he wouldn't be coming back.
Douglas has never blamed Sanderson, then or now in this book, but his wife, Jackie, told Sesker 'I have a hard time forgiving Cael for what he did.' And Pollard now told Sesker if he knew Sanderson would pack up and leave for Penn State, he never would have made the change.

Hindsight.
Covering Douglas and the Cyclones for The Gazette from afar for all his years in Ames, I thought I knew the man pretty well. Sesker's book tells me differently. If you're a Cyclone wrestling fan, this is a must-read. Even if you're not an ISU booster or you're just a wrestling fan, it's worth your time.

http://d1wrestling.proboards.com/thread/3844/truth-comes-out-cael-sanderson

Mr. Clean, I'm sorry I mean Coach Clean did this?

I refuse to believe it. This is all LIES.

 

[LutherAce]

Sounds like Pollard got Douglas fired. Cael said I'll take one of two jobs for the 2006-07 season, and that was either the head coaching job at ISU or tOSU, and he gave Pollard first dibs. As far as I can tell, he didn't put a gun to Pollard's head, so Pollard made the choice in the best interests of ISU.

Happens every day in corporate America. Is this a surprise to anyone? A division VP comes into your office and asks what's up. You say, "I'm thinking about moving over to a rival company as dept head, but would stay if he had a viable alternative." Now the VP can either show you the door or ask if your bosses office is big enough.

the difference is that once you're given the position, the expectation is that you're there to stay since you wanted the position at the place you are currently and were willing to stay if you got what you want.

 

[SPOONER]

Sounds like Pollard got Douglas fired. Cael said I'll take one of two jobs for the 2006-07 season, and that was either the head coaching job at ISU or tOSU, and he gave Pollard first dibs. As far as I can tell, he didn't put a gun to Pollard's head, so Pollard made the choice in the best interests of ISU.

Happens every day in corporate America. Is this a surprise to anyone? A division VP comes into your office and asks what's up. You say, "I'm thinking about moving over to a rival company as dept head, but would stay if he had a viable alternative." Now the VP can either show you the door or ask if your bosses office is big enough.

I'm not a Cael hater like many, and I don't necessarily fault him for it, but issuing a "promote me or I'm leaving" ultimatum is almost EXACTLY the definition of putting a gun to Pollard's head.

 

[Good30]

An honorable student would never have made an ultimatum negatively affecting his class act mentor. The Paterno incident is one instance in which it should have happened though.

Having said that Im not saying once slimy always slimy but that one instance in my opinion was straight up betrayal. I could care less about the world team trials situation with sanderson and taylor as to me thats nothing more than the fiery in the sport.

 

[Pennstate1985]

the difference is that once you're given the position, the expectation is that you're there to stay since you wanted the position at the place you are currently and were willing to stay if you got what you want.

I get it, but if you were Cael and was offered 10 times as much compensation over the life of his new agreement as he was getting at ISU, are you really turning that down? That's implausible that anyone would answer that any differently than Cael did.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I'm not a Cael hater like many, and I don't necessarily fault him for it, but issuing a "promote me or I'm leaving" ultimatum is almost EXACTLY the definition of putting a gun to Pollard's head.

I honestly don't see it as an ultimatum. It's likely that Pollard asked what would make him stay, and he replied that only a head coaching position would make him stay. Doesn't make him a bad guy. We'd all answer the same way and make the same decision. Likewise, leaving three years later doesn't make him an ungrateful cretin either. We'd all do it if given the chance.

 

[JBJRFL]

I get it, but if you were Cael and was offered 10 times as much compensation over the life of his new agreement as he was getting at ISU, are you really turning that down? That's implausible that anyone would answer that any differently than Cael did.

Only those with integrity.

 

[jerot]

I get it, but if you were Cael and was offered 10 times as much compensation over the life of his new agreement as he was getting at ISU, are you really turning that down? That's implausible that anyone would answer that any differently than Cael did.

Wow, another pointless post of zero interest.
Time to scamper back to BWI and tell everybody what happened!

 

[rossel 33]

I get it, but if you were Cael and was offered 10 times as much compensation over the life of his new agreement as he was getting at ISU, are you really turning that down? That's implausible that anyone would answer that any differently than Cael did.

10x as much at PSU... is that accurate? Source?

I agree with LutherAce. I can see where Douglas, his wife or ISU wrestling fans would feel bitter.

Cael said, give me the head coach job (i.e. fire Douglas) or I'll leave. He got his desired head coaching job (at his alma mater, no less) and then left anyway after 3 years.

Loyalty doesn't carry much weight with Cael.

 

[minnhawkeye]

So if Joey doesn't go to PSU; that means coach f**bot didn't really want him right?

Or coach f** best fan spyker said don't need him anyway.

 

[IAChief32]

I honestly don't see it as an ultimatum. It's likely that Pollard asked what would make him stay, and he replied that only a head coaching position would make him stay. Doesn't make him a bad guy. We'd all answer the same way and make the same decision. Likewise, leaving three years later doesn't make him an ungrateful cretin either. We'd all do it if given the chance.

On which part, playing "**** your buddy" with
your coach and mentor or leaving your alma mater a few years after they gave you the keys?

Cael's a winner and will do what it takes to obtain victory. Can't you guys just be happy with that?

Btw, I am many things...most of which that are imperfect but I'm no Blue Falcon.

 

[bbwretler]

I honestly don't see it as an ultimatum. It's likely that Pollard asked what would make him stay, and he replied that only a head coaching position would make him stay. Doesn't make him a bad guy. We'd all answer the same way and make the same decision. Likewise, leaving three years later doesn't make him an ungrateful cretin either. We'd all do it if given the chance.

Do not be so quick to make unfounded or all inclusive statements when you do not know the answers. Gable was offered millions by Oky state in the 80's and HE DID TURN IT DOWN. Plus, were you privy to what Pollard asked...if he was in fact given a chance to really ask anything.....or did he just need to react?

 

[Pennstate1985]

Only those with integrity.

Integrity has nothing to do with it. 9 out of 10 posters on this board would take a ten fold pay raise into a better coaching situation.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Do not be so quick to make unfounded or all inclusive statements when you do not know the answers. Gable was offered millions by Oky state in the 80's and HE DID TURN IT DOWN. Plus, were you privy to what Pollard asked...if he was in fact given a chance to really ask anything.....or did he just need to react?

True, and I didn't say everyone had a price. The much targeted Paterno once turned down a $1M pro deal to stay at PSU where he was being paid far less.

 

[SPOONER]

I honestly don't see it as an ultimatum. It's likely that Pollard asked what would make him stay, and he replied that only a head coaching position would make him stay. Doesn't make him a bad guy. We'd all answer the same way and make the same decision. Likewise, leaving three years later doesn't make him an ungrateful cretin either. We'd all do it if given the chance.

No, that isn't "likely" at all. Not only has it ever been the rumor, you have this:


'The Ohio State job had come open and we couldn't risk losing Cael,' Pollard told Sesker. ' ...Cael told me 'I'm either the head coach at Iowa State or I leave.' '


Again, I'm not a Cael hater nor do I think poorly of him for doing it, but you have to at least call a spade a spade instead of making something up to support your point.

 

[Mike Zierath]

You sound like a girly man. Do you lisp also?

Actually I am a 50 year old woman without a lisp. Do you feel better now?

Come on....you know the rules!

Pic!

Z

 

[Peter4321]

Inside sources tell me that McKenna is leaning towards Penn St