John Deere strikers are nuts

[Smalls4IA]

I’ve never understood why republicans aren’t pro union. Instead of the government telling the corporation how to compensate their employees, the market is. These employees are saying “you don’t pay us enough”…if that isn’t true, JD will replace them at a lower cost. That seems pretty in-line with the Republican “free market” arguments I hear.

Buuut, then I realize it’s not really about the “free market” it’s about propping up corporations and wealthy individuals (who bankroll the party….both parties, actually) while convincing the masses that it will benefit them if their employer makes more money.

Speaking for myself and others I know. We're not anti union. The issue is union's aren't what they used to be and in the extent of teachers unions, that money doesn't even go to the people negotiating your salary and benefits. It goes straight to lobbyists, which would be fine if they were lobbying for candidates that supported the things you support. There are more important issues to me than my pay. The last time I looked into it, I think 2018, 99.7% of the money donated by the teachers union lobbyists went to dem candidates. I'm 100% for smaller local unions.

 

[Chief Turkeyscratch]

The UAW’s corruption is so dense and gnarled that the United States government has assigned them a federal official to monitor their daily activities.

 

[abby97]

So in your world, the person who needs very expensive cancer treatments that they can't afford should either die or "move to Venezuela"? Another demonstration that you are deplorable.

Please provide names of those denied treatment because of income. Have you heard of Medicaid?

 

[RileyHawk]

Please provide names of those denied treatment because of income. Have you heard of Medicaid?

You're the idiot who is lauding expensive healthcare that not everyone can afford. Do you advocate for universal healthcare then?

Oh...

After losing her job in May 2016, Finley also lost her health insurance coverage and struggled to find a new job. Three months later, Finley was found dead in her apartment after avoiding going to see a doctor for flu-like symptoms.

“My grandparents went by to check on her, and they couldn’t get into her apartment,” her son Cameron Finley told the Guardian. “They got the landlord to open it up, went in and found she had passed away. It came as a complete surprise to everybody. It just came out of nowhere.

“She was barely scraping by and trying not to get evicted. She gets what appears to her as a basic cold or flu, didn’t go to the doctor and risk spending money she didn’t have, and as a consequence she passed away.”

Asked about Finley losing her job, Walmart declined to comment, saying personnel files from 2016 had been moved offsite.

Finley is one of millions of Americans who avoid medical treatment due to the costs every year.

Dumb ****er. SMH

 

[abby97]

Speaking for myself and others I know. We're not anti union. The issue is union's aren't what they used to be and in the extent of teachers unions, that money doesn't even go to the people negotiating your salary and benefits. It goes straight to lobbyists, which would be fine if they were lobbying for candidates that supported the things you support. There are more important issues to me than my pay. The last time I looked into it, I think 2018, 99.7% of the money donated by the teachers union lobbyists went to dem candidates. I'm 100% for smaller local unions.

You're the idiot who is lauding expensive healthcare that not everyone can afford. Do you advocate for universal healthcare then?

Oh...

After losing her job in May 2016, Finley also lost her health insurance coverage and struggled to find a new job. Three months later, Finley was found dead in her apartment after avoiding going to see a doctor for flu-like symptoms.

“My grandparents went by to check on her, and they couldn’t get into her apartment,” her son Cameron Finley told the Guardian. “They got the landlord to open it up, went in and found she had passed away. It came as a complete surprise to everybody. It just came out of nowhere.

“She was barely scraping by and trying not to get evicted. She gets what appears to her as a basic cold or flu, didn’t go to the doctor and risk spending money she didn’t have, and as a consequence she passed away.”

Asked about Finley losing her job, Walmart declined to comment, saying personnel files from 2016 had been moved offsite.

Finley is one of millions of Americans who avoid medical treatment due to the costs every year.

Dumb

We have the best healthcare in the world whether you like it or not.

 

[RileyHawk]

We have the best healthcare in the world whether you like it or not.

Not for everyone.

Do you advocate for universal healthcare?

 

[abby97]

Not for everyone.

Do you advocate for universal healthcare?

No

 

[Rudolph]

We have the best healthcare in the world whether you like it or not.

Lol by what measure. lol

 

[Rudolph]

Lol this ultra leftist mag says not in top 10: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...-developed-public-health-care-system?slide=10

 

[RileyHawk]

No

So you advocate for those who can't afford healthcare simply suffer or die. Nice.

 

[gohawks50]

Speaking for myself and others I know. We're not anti union. The issue is union's aren't what they used to be and in the extent of teachers unions, that money doesn't even go to the people negotiating your salary and benefits. It goes straight to lobbyists, which would be fine if they were lobbying for candidates that supported the things you support. There are more important issues to me than my pay. The last time I looked into it, I think 2018, 99.7% of the money donated by the teachers union lobbyists went to dem candidates. I'm 100% for smaller local unions.

I've told you this before. Only PAC money is spent on lobbyists
Members of ISEA can opt out of that part of their dues. Most teachers in my district chose to opt out. NEA supports Democratic candidates because they support causes that help teachers. Can you name a policy position from Republicans that would improve education? Usually Republican education policies support vouchers and private schools, not public education.

 

[notlongago]

1. Tell me you're a republican without telling me you're a republican. My interest is that wages going up helps those 10k people and their families.
2. Only if the company insists on protecting shareholder profits. That's not an actual requirement.
3. Here we admit that the whole point is to protect the rich getting richer and the company is just a vehicle for that. What they make is immaterial. Except to all the people that actually work there.

Counterpoint to #1: rising prices will affect many more families than those affected by rising salaries.

Counterpoint to #3: I have quite a bit of Deere stock and am nowhere near rich, so not sure why you used that qualifier. The statement should be " here we admit the whole point is to please the stockholders".

(And lastly, I'm not a republican so 3 strikes)

 

[notlongago]

Dude, there is nothing asinine, inherently, about ANY comparison. That is, as long as you don’t conflate comparison with some notion of implied equivalence. Which is what I think you’re, like many these days, doing.

Okay, here goes. Bolt turner shows up and turns bolts. Maybe the bolt changes a little over time because a bolt designer designs a better bolt. Or the tool evolves. Or both. But, for the most part, the job remains basically the same, even as tech may evolve things.

CEO shows up day after day and has his own “bolts” to “turn”. In my original post on this, the one to which you took exception, I put bolts in quotes to signal metaphor. Shoulda put turn in quotes, too. The CEO’s bolts, and their turning, are of course more complex and require many more layers of information and things to consider—both known and projected. But the CEO also has tools to make these decisions (decisions are the CEO’s “bolts”) that remain fairly consistent. A CFO, a CMO, and so on. His senior execs are his tools. Every corp has similar “tools” and similar types of decisions to be made, thus my commenting that the CEO of Deere could become the CEO of a hotel group and be able to figure it out. Because the job isn’t a mystery. It also has its “bolts” that need “turning”. And while the pace and complexity may be different now than say 50 years ago, the job of CEO hasn’t changed all that much.

And this is why this exploding CEO compensation is something worth questioning. It’s not sustainable and is clearly not healthy for our economy.

But people defend it, why? And then we have people cheering AGAINST workers trying to get more of a share of things. Why? It’s just weird to me.

Weirder, though, is this idea that only truly similar things can be “aptly” compared. I can compare a toothbrush to a Subaru if it helps create a better understanding of either/both or some other thing being discussed.

I do appreciate you taking the time to write this out, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on nearly every point.

 

[Rudolph]

I do appreciate you taking the time to write this out, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on nearly every point.

So you must not understand comparison nor metaphor. As I had originally claimed, and have now confirmed.

Simple thought experiment: Democrats and Republicans are constantly being compared against each other, right? Despite this belief that they’re basically entirely different species, right? But that is okay?

Again, there is value in comparing different things. Comparing an apple to an orange allows their differences to be made clear, and also allows their similarities or shared attribute to be illuminated.

I don’t see why any of this is objectionable to you.

Further, have you figured out how to explain to me this great mystery that is CEO job duties? Or are you still rooted to this idea that I simply cannot know what being a CEO entails?

Further further, have you even bothered to provide a good argument negating mine that the CEO of Deere could absolutely pivot to become the CEO of some hotel group PRECISELY BECAUSE THE JOB OF CEO HAS ITS OWN RELATIVELY SIMILAR CONSISTENCIES?

I think your “agree to disagree” is really just your pride getting in the way of what really is “yeah, I misunderstood you, you make good points.”

 

[notlongago]

So you must not understand comparison nor metaphor. As I had originally claimed, and have now confirmed.

Simple thought experiment: Democrats and Republicans are constantly being compared against each other, right? Despite this belief that they’re basically entirely different species, right? But that is okay?

Again, there is value in comparing different things. Comparing an apple to an orange allows their differences to be made clear, and also allows their similarities or shared attribute to be illuminated.

I don’t see why any of this is objectionable to you.

Further, have you figured out how to explain to me this great mystery that is CEO job duties? Or are you still rooted to this idea that I simply cannot know what being a CEO entails?

Further further, have you even bothered to provide a good argument negating mine that the CEO of Deere could absolutely pivot to become the CEO of some hotel group PRECISELY BECAUSE THE JOB OF CEO HAS ITS OWN RELATIVELY SIMILAR CONSISTENCIES?

I think your “agree to disagree” is really just your pride getting in the way of what really is “yeah, I misunderstood you, you make good points.”

Im not sure how many times I need to say it, but im not conflating equivalence w/ comparison. I simply think your comparison is a terrible comparison - not because of the elements, but because it does an awful job of highlighting the similarities and differences.

 

[hawksurprize]

You expect Deere to give them free healthcare for life when the cost of that isn’t known by anybody?

10% raise and a check for $8,500 isn’t enough? How many people pay zero insurance premiums and zero deductible?

what is enough?

if you want to play the CEO bonus game, dividing his bonus over the strikers and the workers are getting 6 times that.

Well they did forever so why not

 

[Rudolph]

Im not sure how many times I need to say it, but im not conflating equivalence w/ comparison. I simply think your comparison is a terrible comparison - not because of the elements, but because it does an awful job of highlighting the similarities and differences.

Lol. So you need me to write a dissertation for you to shut down your pride and accept that, in fact, CEOs, too, have their version of pretty-consistent “bolt-turning” in that year over year that position doesn’t change all that much. There is a lot of strategizing and decision-making and tone-setting for the corp/business/org and there are public elements and so on and so forth. It’s not like one day a CEO is a banker and the next a photographer and the next an HROT moderator. As such, the exploding CEO pay while damn near everything else remains at-best stagnant is worthy of questioning.

Now please, you prideful doofus, explain to me how any of this is wrong. Remember, early on in this you claimed to be doing us a service by revealing my point to be completely wrong.

And I’m still waiting for a good explanation. Because, “you don’t know what a CEO does” has proven to be a really bad excuse for one.

 

[notlongago]

Lol. So you need me to write a dissertation for you to shut down your pride and accept that, in fact, CEOs, too, have their version of pretty-consistent “bolt-turning” in that year over year that position doesn’t change all that much. There is a lot of strategizing and decision-making and tone-setting for the corp/business/org and there are public elements and so on and so forth. It’s not like one day a CEO is a banker and the next a photographer and the next an HROT moderator. As such, the exploding CEO pay while damn near everything else remains at-best stagnant is worthy of questioning.

Now please, you prideful doofus, explain to me how any of this is wrong. Remember, early on in this you claimed to be doing us a service by revealing my point to be completely wrong.

And I’m still waiting for a good explanation. Because, “you don’t know what a CEO does” has proven to be a really bad excuse for one.

The crux of your position is, "theyre both jobs, and the people in those positions could do those same jobs for another company". That alone is a position I'd argue with, but thats beside the point. The point is, your claim is an ineffective comparison. Youve emptied the cylinder trying to rationalize it, so if you'd like to continue barking up the same tree and spewing elementary insults, have at it, but my response will remain the same.

 

[Hwki6sn]

3rd proposal agreed on 61% in favor, ending the strike

 

[onlyTheObvious]

3rd proposal agreed on 61% in favor, ending the strike

Waterloo was still 61% no I heard. Those people are hard core bitter.

 

[Urohawk]

We have the best healthcare in the world whether you like it or not.

Not even remotely accurate. You put your credentials down and I'll put mine. We will see who's opinion has better credentials.

Health Insurance & Medicare

WebMD provides coverage of health care reform, Medicare, Medicaid, health insurance, and the Affordable Care Act, including benefits, costs, coverage, financial assistance, and much more.

www.webmd.com

Mirror, Mirror 2021: Reflecting Poorly

The United States trails far behind other high-income countries on measures of health care affordability, administrative efficiency, equity, and outcomes.

www.commonwealthfund.org

 

[torbee]

 

[MitchLL]

The Waterloo local definitely with a "cob up their ass".

There's gotta be someone here that knows why this bunch is bucking the trend?

Sorry if that was already answered.

 

[hawkcub]

The Waterloo local definitely with a "cob up their ass".

There's gotta be someone here that knows why this bunch is bucking the trend?

Sorry if that was already answered.

I have no idea. Back in '86 Waterloo was John Deere. It is still but not even close to what it was then. Probably more then most of the other communities. Maybe the children and grandchildren remember this and were wanting much more then the other locals because of this.

 

[hawksurprize]

Labor should never be a bargaining position. The bargaining position should be each and every employee's responsibility to bargain for themselves. Unions suck because they penalize good workers and let slackers earn inflated wages which makes everything more expensive for the rest of us.

Oh if only it really worked way

 

[hawksurprize]

However current Deere employees are making more per hour than the retirees did when they were working. Are you stating the someone drawing a pension had their pension reduced?

False

 

[paednoch23]

Find a better job take it.

none of these union workers will. Nobody is offering what they already had much less what they were just offered.

the union should have taken their bonus checks and bought Deere stock if they think they are getting screwed in the name of profits.

Its a free country. unless you are some sort of socialist all of us should be able to negotiate our wages and benefits with our employer. The deer workers do have their employer by the balls. I've had my employer by the balls many times over my lifetime. I did the same thing. Pay up or I'm leaving your ass, and you will be in a bad spot if I go.

 

[paednoch23]

The UAW’s corruption is so dense and gnarled that the United States government has assigned them a federal official to monitor their daily activities.

So I suggest you not associate with them. Don't work in a Uninionized job. It's a free country and nobody is requiring your to be a union worker.

 

[BelemNole]

Its a free country. unless you are some sort of socialist all of us should be able to negotiate our wages and benefits with our employer. The deer workers do have their employer by the balls. I've had my employer by the balls many times over my lifetime. I did the same thing. Pay up or I'm leaving your ass, and you will be in a bad spot if I go.

it's America, we've been trained to hate it when other people succeed.