Define more and more? Do you accept that more trials and studies then show the opposite based on the Oxford analysis?
Define more and more? Do you accept that more trials and studies then show the opposite based on the Oxford analysis?
Your article seems to be saying, at least in my analysis, that mask effectiveness was poor for influenza-type diseases in 2010, but could not be applied to Covid due to the lack of these studies being applied during a pandemic. What am I missing?
Good questions. I'm not wearing one outside, just in public areas. I worry that developing immunity means sacrificing loved ones, which I don't think I'm willing to do. My father has post-polio and diabetes and is 68. I'm not ready to lose him yet.
That's not what it's saying. It's only acknowledging that 12 trials predating covid assessing mask mitigation with influenza like illness are debatable about how it applies to covid19. That's an acknowledgment because we don't truly understand how it's spread.
Also even in the event that masks work, what is the effectiveness? A Norwegian study places that in doubt.
Norway’s Institute for Public Health reported that if masks did work then any difference in infection rates would be small when infection rates are low: assuming 20% asymptomatics and a risk reduction of 40% for wearing masks, 200 000 people would need to wear one to prevent one new infection per week.
And cloth masks in a prior study were actually determined to be worse than nothing at all. It was hypothesized that this resulted from saliva creating dampness on the mask and becoming a catch basin for virus and bacteria.
RCT on the efficacy of cloth masks showing they were more harmful than wearing no mask at all:
Only one randomised trial (n=569) included cloth masks. This trial found ILI rates were 13 times higher in Vietnamese hospital workers allocated to cloth masks compared to medical/surgical masks, RR 13.25, (95%CI 1.74 to 100.97) and over three times higher when compared to no masks,* RR 3.49 (95%CI 1.00 to 12.17).
If you wear masks I would get the disposable masks and not wear a cloth one.
I don't understand how the mask thing is hard for people... how people can try to make it an either or. Of course it isn't perfect socially distancing is preferred but most likely there are going to be situations where that is not possible and yes masks aren't 100% effective but they are better than no mask. How hard is it to understand to be smart and socially distance as much as possible and be sure you are wearing a mask when you are in situations where it's possible you may not be able to socially distance? Either people are trying to use this to support some political agenda that masks are ineffective or they are just plain stupid
Not to fight CP84's battles for him/her, but I think all he's trying to say is that the evidence is sketchy at best on the effectiveness of masks, and that some studies are showing that cloth masks could even worsen things. Personally, if a business asks me to wear a mask, I will. Not a big deal. If I'm told that I have to wear a mask inside my own home, pound sand.
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anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
Guest
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anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
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BIG ten athletes/paretns are not giving up yet! Good for them!
Dawn Beyer
@DawnBeyer2
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1h
BIG10 parents are uniting and want transparency. Letters are going to the commissioner, speaking with the press, more are joining in. This letter represents the voice of many Iowa football parents that have joined together to get some answers.
@KCRG_Sports
@HawkeyeReport
Dawn Beyer
@DawnBeyer2
·
1h
BIG10 parents are uniting and want transparency. Letters are going to the commissioner, speaking with the press, more are joining in. This letter represents the voice of many Iowa football parents that have joined together to get some answers.
@KCRG_Sports
@HawkeyeReport
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anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
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A lot of you are missing the point. The college kids work tirelessly their entire life for opportunities like being a member of the Hawkeye football (or other sports programs). And they are having those once in a lifetime opportunities taken away from them without full transparency or explanation over a virus that is slightly more deadly than seasonal influenza. It's not right and if you can't see that that's fine. But those who are being wrongfully denied opportunities ot live their life and fulfill their dreams in the small window they have are not going to go away quietly.
Do we know if any parents from others schools are doing this as well? He's not just going to listen to one school's parents.
If they don't like it then transfer. No one is forcing them to stay. I love college football and basketball and will miss it but there are bigger things going on. They just need to use their scholarship to get their degree. That's should be their #1 priority at this point, get the degree.
Someone get a violin. What a bunch of sh!t just because you want football. Everyone has dreams and some times those dreams come true and some times they don't. Most of the players have dreams about playing in the NFL. What the parents should be fighting for is to get an extra year for the kids seniors.
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anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
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Just because you want to cower in fear over a flu like virus doesn't mean the rest of the world wants to cower with you. Get yourself the violin. It has nothing to do with me wanting football. It has everything to do with everybody wanting to live their lives and not be denied that opportunity over a flu.
So HE should be the one taking all the extra / necessary precautions. Not me.
Do you blame Trump for everything? Why so filled with hate, permanent adolescent angst? Trump had nothing to do with this, as a matter of fact he stopped flights from China and all of you leftists whined "racism".
100% agree with you. The presidents have the power to cancel sports. What is crappy about this is no details in explanation and no transparency in the process. If you are making decisions that impact so many persons, it is best to get their input on the decision.
Exactly. I have aging parents who are being very cautious. It's there responsibility (and our families) to make sure they are taken care of. Make sure they have access to grocery deliveries, make sure we don't see them if we are sick, wear a mask when near them. By the standard that is set, we should never have a return to any normal activities ever again.
I wish some reporter has the balls to ask him if his kid and grand kids are going on line or in person this fall
You have a hard time with reality. I have nothing to do with no football this year so if the rest of the world wants to have football, then have football. Your biggest problem is, The world doesn’t agree with you, it’s not just the flu. The big ten has decided to wait, and if people don’t like it transfer or quit. That’s a decision the kids will have to make. My son is headed back to Iowa City this week. We’re not hiding in the basement as you might think. We just understand that things may not be normal for months and have accepted it. Rather than constantly complain about everything, we’re adjusting as needed.
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anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
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Appears the majority of the rest of the world does agree with me. That is why you are seeing people push back all over the place.
So if people want to fight back agains something that is very important to them, then they are "complaining." ? I don't blame the players and parents for pursuing every angle that is available to them. You say quit or transfer. Well, for most transfer is not an option. There has to be a school willing to take them. Quit? Yes, how about if the school just decides to drop your kid's major their senior year? No biggie right? The point is in a free country people are allowed to pursue their interests/passions to the best of their ability. Yes, public health concerns can cause organizations to make decisions where those choices are taken away. What a large amount of people are now arguing is that the actual risk (based on data) to college-age players is less than seasonal influenza. So they aren't out of their minds to ask "why is this being done?"
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anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
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I don't blame or care if the parents ask questions. But in the end, it will be their decision how to handle the situation. Please don't compare a major to someone playing football. These kids should #1 be focused on an education. Football is secondary, and if it's the other way around, then that's their fault. You think there's never been a situation where a college dropped a sport. It sucks but people have to deal with all kinds of things that suck. This virus sucks. The University (and Big Ten) have to look out for themselves. If there are medical issues for a number of players, the lawsuits could unbelievable. Just look what happens when a coach says the wrong thing to a player. There's all kinds of costly reviews and potential lawsuits. I want football and really really really want basketball this year, but I understand there are bigger issues to consider.
If they agreed with you, there wouldn't be mask wearing, there wouldn't be online schooling, there wouldn't be closed bars, companies wouldn't be work from home. There's definite push back from your side, but if you were the majority, the other side would need to be the pushers.
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anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
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anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
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Why are you telling somebody else what their #1 focus should be? If you were advising a high school Lebron James you would advise that he foregoes millions of guaranteed dollars and go to college and get an education?
Fact is everybody gets to decide their own priorities. Just because they don't jive with what you think they should be does not make them wrong. You've made it clear you disagree.
Edit to add: Please know the Lebron hypothetical is extreme example. But if you are 21 years old with a possibility to earn life changing money by playing football and you only have so many years to earn that money it is your right to fight for that opportunity.
Actually, the rest of the world does cower, as in social distance and mandating masks while limiting public gatherings, yes even your beloved Sweden is doing this. Sports are being played in countries that have a much better handle on things than the US. Now, the flu part, that is a hoax at best and has been proven so with the shear number of deaths world wide as compared to the flu. AND in half a years time as the flu measurements, AND with a worldwide lockdown in place and social distancing and masking requirements WORLDWIDE. the FLU, no it is not, if it was we would be treating it like the swine flu. BUT IT WILL BE OVER IN NOVEMBER...... in the US or in the World? I am confused by that statement. If you are correct I will eat crow, and I hope to God you all are that believe it is not much of anything, but I am pretty sure this is not a mass hysteria of leaders creating it.
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They are student athletes and number one they are students. If some want to play in the pros, they are free to go play. I'm not here to tell anyone they should go pro or they should go to college. But if they choose the college route, then all we owe them is an education. There's zero guarantee they'll ever see the playing field. We don't guarantee anyone will be a pro.
That was an awesome letter they came up with! They didn't soften key words either. To you Iowa parents on here; great job!!!
Come on man. Football is LIFE for so many people. It is thought about year round by both coaches and players - shit, most of the parents too.
My life revolved around baseball and football from probably age 5 to 18 - sports were #1 and I don't regret it.
I really wish I could believe that, and hope they can get it changed, but I think the ship has sailed.
I think everyone should wear legit masks, though you don't see a ton of them
That's us where I stand.
That said I'd laugh at anyone telling me I need a mask at home!!
"Sports are being played in countries that have a much better handle on things than the US." US is better than some, worse than some. Deaths per capita U.S. is better than Sweden, UK, Spain, Italy, Peru Belgium. Slightly worse than Brazil, France, Mexico, Panama, Ireland. We can argue the data accuracy till the cows come home, but U.S. is neither worst nor best at the response on a per capita basis.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
"Flu part, a hoax." I don't know what the point of this argument is. COVID certainly is not a hoax. Age group of 15-24, flu death rates are similar to COVID. YTD, 242 Americans ages 15-24 died with COVID. YTD, 49 Americans ages 0-14 died with COVID. In 2018, 244 Americans ages 0-14 died of influenza. In 2018, 200 Americans ages 15-24 died of influenza. Even if the final death count for Americans ages 15-24 with COVID ends up at 400, that still makes it not dangerous for that age group. Over 16,000 Americans ages 15-24 have died so far in 2020. Data below.
YTD deaths by age in the US from COVID:
Links to CDC data here: https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku
By the way, the fact that worldwide lockdown is in place and all this mask-wearing going on kind of proves the point that a contagious virus is going to do what a contagious virus does. Quarantining healthy people at home only ends up killing more people in the long run. But I digress.
"It will be over in November." It really won't be over anywhere in November except for Sweden which has seen its death count basically go to zero. What will suddenly change in November should Biden win is an emphasis by the media on the fact that this virus isn't very impactful on the young and that we should be focused on what can be done instead of the current default mode of out of control leaders that nothing is safe.
Numbers kinda annoy me. They are great, but only if you trust those giving them to you. These days it just gets harder and harder. ..
Warning: long as hell, but hopefully helpful.
Masks: data is mixed on effectiveness, but it would take years to get good studies to prove definitively how much masks help prevent COVID spread. However, I think common sense tells one a mask would help contain spread from coughs and sneezes, since this is thought to be a droplet transmission infection (though even that is not fully settled). Also, masks provide constant tactile and visual reminders to distance, wash hands, and generally remain aware of this disease. And the vast majority can wear one without issues (only needed indoors--my opinion is outdoor activities are reasonably safe). The potential benefits of masking seem greater than the risks to me.
Herd Immunity: studies are increasingly suggestive of a "hidden" t-cell cross-immunity from previous non-COVID-19 Coronavirus infections. This might explain why some get very ill, and others not at all, and also why the young are less affected than the old (unlike influenza, where there is significant infant morbidity and mortality) It also might explain why NYC seems to have burned-out its infection inexplicably quickly (same with Sweden, same with Italy). My belief is that effective herd immunity might be achieved with only 15-20% infection rates, given that up to 40% of the population might already have t-cell based immunity. Add any reasonably effective vaccine, and it might not take long for this to be gone.
Vaccines: The Oxford vaccine (and I believe the Moderna vaccine) are producing measurable memory t-cell levels, which suggests long-term immunity with these vaccines is likely (not just 3-6 mos as with antibody-mediated immunity). I believe there will be a vaccine for high-risk persons and healthcare workers in December, and this might really hasten reaching herd immunity status, possibly by the new year.
The Virus: this virus is thought to be relatively stable, and not likely to mutate into a form that would render a vaccine ineffective (unlike the influenza virus). There was a mutation which made it more virulent (much easier to pass on), but it's not the type of mutation that would affect a vaccine.
My prediction is that we will reach herd immunity in January. This will be done through "hidden" immunity from prior infection, from new infections (one of the few positives of schoolchildren getting infected is it is one means to get to herd immunity quicker with less morbidity), and from the limited vaccine I think will be offered to certain groups of persons in December.
The above is not certain, and contains some conjecture, but it is based on science and not emotion, and I think that should count for something (and I think I have the science correct, unless new info has just come to light that I am not aware of).
And in case you are wondering, I am a physician (Internal Medicine)
Masks: data is mixed on effectiveness, but it would take years to get good studies to prove definitively how much masks help prevent COVID spread. However, I think common sense tells one a mask would help contain spread from coughs and sneezes, since this is thought to be a droplet transmission infection (though even that is not fully settled). Also, masks provide constant tactile and visual reminders to distance, wash hands, and generally remain aware of this disease. And the vast majority can wear one without issues (only needed indoors--my opinion is outdoor activities are reasonably safe). The potential benefits of masking seem greater than the risks to me.
Herd Immunity: studies are increasingly suggestive of a "hidden" t-cell cross-immunity from previous non-COVID-19 Coronavirus infections. This might explain why some get very ill, and others not at all, and also why the young are less affected than the old (unlike influenza, where there is significant infant morbidity and mortality) It also might explain why NYC seems to have burned-out its infection inexplicably quickly (same with Sweden, same with Italy). My belief is that effective herd immunity might be achieved with only 15-20% infection rates, given that up to 40% of the population might already have t-cell based immunity. Add any reasonably effective vaccine, and it might not take long for this to be gone.
Vaccines: The Oxford vaccine (and I believe the Moderna vaccine) are producing measurable memory t-cell levels, which suggests long-term immunity with these vaccines is likely (not just 3-6 mos as with antibody-mediated immunity). I believe there will be a vaccine for high-risk persons and healthcare workers in December, and this might really hasten reaching herd immunity status, possibly by the new year.
The Virus: this virus is thought to be relatively stable, and not likely to mutate into a form that would render a vaccine ineffective (unlike the influenza virus). There was a mutation which made it more virulent (much easier to pass on), but it's not the type of mutation that would affect a vaccine.
My prediction is that we will reach herd immunity in January. This will be done through "hidden" immunity from prior infection, from new infections (one of the few positives of schoolchildren getting infected is it is one means to get to herd immunity quicker with less morbidity), and from the limited vaccine I think will be offered to certain groups of persons in December.
The above is not certain, and contains some conjecture, but it is based on science and not emotion, and I think that should count for something (and I think I have the science correct, unless new info has just come to light that I am not aware of).
And in case you are wondering, I am a physician (Internal Medicine)
I'm not asking you to regret it. You were lucky, your way of life allowed you to do it. You have your parents to thank for that, and this country. You had the privilege to focus your life on baseball and football. That's fantastic. But when life changes, some times your normal has to change.
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anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
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Plus the players are in a healthier environment with being closely monitored and having ongoing tests. Not to mention a large chunk of their time separated from the 30,000 student body that will soon hit campus.
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