Kueter or Hill?

[Bones Malone]

lets put Ben on UBER lifting program and the FULL FEED BAG and then after he moves on in a couple years to the NFL We have Dreshaun Ross waiting in the wings and he steps onto the mat and gives us another 3 to 4 solid years of a Hammer at Heavyweight

This.

I was initially skeptical about The Treigning Lab but I've spent some time on their site and feel Iowa athletes could take advantage of their proven success. I feel our strength, nutrition and weight gain/management might benefit greatly from their programs. The Treigning Lab utilizes metabolic training and also offers MMA training.

The Treigning Lab touts "Success Through Science" to improve nutrition utilizing metabolic testing. Their home page includes adds for their protein shakes. In addition, they have an onsite MMA coach in former wrestler Mark Munoz to help with training and coach wrestling.

Other programs have been successful sending their athletes to the lab and both the PSU & Cornell logos are included on their site. Also, former wrestlers provide testimonials with David Taylor saying "The Treigning Lab makes it super easy!" and TJ Dillashaw "The Treigning Lab has been a place of life for me".

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the PSU athletes injured this season have been utilizing the Lab for recovery. I've pasted a few URL's that might be pertinent.

Home - TREIGNING Lab Recovery Fitness

treigninglab.fit

Several ailing Penn State wrestlers on the mend, according to Cael Sanderson

one day ago from local Pennlive PA a healthy PSU will shock the world come March. https://www.pennlive.com/penn-state-wrestling/2024/02/several-ailing-penn-state-wrestlers-on-the-mend-according-to-cael-sanderson.html?outputType=amp

intermatwrestle.com

Several ailing Penn State wrestlers on the mend, according to Cael Sanderson

Aaron Nagao, Carter Starocci have had to take time out of the lineup.

www.pennlive.com

I know we have a SoCal Hawkeye fan...just curious if any of our fans have any experience or know much about the Treigning Lab in Orange County California.

Not sure if both Kirk & Tom need to be onboard to make this happen but it seems Kueter might benefit greatly or possibly any other Hawks suffering the malingering effects of injuries.

 

[ping72]

This.

I was initially skeptical about The Treigning Lab but I've spent some time on their site and feel Iowa athletes could take advantage of their proven success. I feel our strength, nutrition and weight gain/management might benefit greatly from their programs. The Treigning Lab utilizes metabolic training and also offers MMA training.

The Treigning Lab touts "Success Through Science" to improve nutrition utilizing metabolic testing. Their home page includes adds for their protein shakes. In addition, they have an onsite MMA coach in former wrestler Mark Munoz to help with training and coach wrestling.

Other programs have been successful sending their athletes to the lab and both the PSU & Cornell logos are included on their site. Also, former wrestlers provide testimonials with David Taylor saying "The Treigning Lab makes it super easy!" and TJ Dillashaw "The Treigning Lab has been a place of life for me".

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the PSU athletes injured this season have been utilizing the Lab for recovery. I've pasted a few URL's that might be pertinent.

Home - TREIGNING Lab Recovery Fitness

treigninglab.fit

Several ailing Penn State wrestlers on the mend, according to Cael Sanderson

one day ago from local Pennlive PA a healthy PSU will shock the world come March. https://www.pennlive.com/penn-state-wrestling/2024/02/several-ailing-penn-state-wrestlers-on-the-mend-according-to-cael-sanderson.html?outputType=amp

intermatwrestle.com

Several ailing Penn State wrestlers on the mend, according to Cael Sanderson

Aaron Nagao, Carter Starocci have had to take time out of the lineup.

www.pennlive.com

I know we have a SoCal Hawkeye fan...just curious if any of our fans have any experience or know much about the Treigning Lab in Orange County California.

Not sure if both Kirk & Tom need to be onboard to make this happen but it seems Kueter might benefit greatly or possibly any other Hawks suffering the malingering effects of injuries.

Their PED connections concern me.

 

[Bones Malone]

Which is why I was initially skeptical as well but other programs have clearly been benefitting. After visiting their site, I thought it should be taken into consideration.

 

[vhsalum]

Why don't you go try just that place out for 50 or maybe 100 years?

I wouldn't wish that on my mortal enemy.

 

[vhsalum]

This.

I was initially skeptical about The Treigning Lab but I've spent some time on their site and feel Iowa athletes could take advantage of their proven success. I feel our strength, nutrition and weight gain/management might benefit greatly from their programs. The Treigning Lab utilizes metabolic training and also offers MMA training.

The Treigning Lab touts "Success Through Science" to improve nutrition utilizing metabolic testing. Their home page includes adds for their protein shakes. In addition, they have an onsite MMA coach in former wrestler Mark Munoz to help with training and coach wrestling.

Other programs have been successful sending their athletes to the lab and both the PSU & Cornell logos are included on their site. Also, former wrestlers provide testimonials with David Taylor saying "The Treigning Lab makes it super easy!" and TJ Dillashaw "The Treigning Lab has been a place of life for me".

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the PSU athletes injured this season have been utilizing the Lab for recovery. I've pasted a few URL's that might be pertinent.

Home - TREIGNING Lab Recovery Fitness

treigninglab.fit

Several ailing Penn State wrestlers on the mend, according to Cael Sanderson

one day ago from local Pennlive PA a healthy PSU will shock the world come March. https://www.pennlive.com/penn-state-wrestling/2024/02/several-ailing-penn-state-wrestlers-on-the-mend-according-to-cael-sanderson.html?outputType=amp

intermatwrestle.com

Several ailing Penn State wrestlers on the mend, according to Cael Sanderson

Aaron Nagao, Carter Starocci have had to take time out of the lineup.

www.pennlive.com

I know we have a SoCal Hawkeye fan...just curious if any of our fans have any experience or know much about the Treigning Lab in Orange County California.

Not sure if both Kirk & Tom need to be onboard to make this happen but it seems Kueter might benefit greatly or possibly any other Hawks suffering the malingering effects of injuries.

Kueter isn't going anywhere near Treigning Lab. Not that its a slight to them at all. In fact, there are current Hawks working with Treigning Lab.

But Ben is with the nation's best S&C program for football. ANYWHERE. It's not even close. What Iowa does with their guys is better than any place in the country. While there are certainly comparable staffs/programs (tOSU, okiest, Alabama) - no one denies that Iowa takes guys who aren't "blue chippers" and makes them physically ready to be NFL draft picks.

In NFL circles, you take the Iowa kid because you know he's physically fit and can train hard. Beyond the talent, Ferentz and staff truly build elite athletes.

 

[MSU158]

I wouldn't wish that on my mortal enemy..

You are much nicer than me. I am willing to wish it on people that only mildly annoy me from time to time. 😇

 

[MilleGinja]

Their PED connections concern me.

YUP

 

[vhsalum]

YUP

Eh. It was one guy. And while he did for a trash reason (felt like he needed to get the edge to feed his family, blah, blah, blah) - it was clearly an outlier.

If there were more guys doing it, and doing it under the advisement of Coach Cal, you'd have more guys pop. Especially considering the number of Olympic athletes he works with - which have a much more rigid testing protocol.

The dude also doesn't work out of a lab (think BALCO) - so he's likely not conjuring up flaxseed oil and administering it to his athletes.

Now what is different about him? He believes in a LOT of nutrition. Right down to the kind of water you drink. Apparently he has a custom water filter to reduce the amount of arsenic his athletes are consuming. He believes in higher oxygenated conditions (hyperbaric chambers) and his strength program is pretty unique from the VERY minute data i've been able to gather. he's super secretive and unless you know an athlete who is willing to share, you're not going to find much.

But he certainly gets results. An interesting thing about the PSU S&C is that, in general, they only lift 2 times a week, both in and out of season. Obviously there are guys who do more to gain muscle - but for a program that looks as strong and conditioned as there - they do not do the traditional lifting. It's mostly circuits.

 

[Bones Malone]

Kueter isn't going anywhere near Treigning Lab. Not that its a slight to them at all. In fact, there are current Hawks working with Treigning Lab.

But Ben is with the nation's best S&C program for football. ANYWHERE. It's not even close. What Iowa does with their guys is better than any place in the country. While there are certainly comparable staffs/programs (tOSU, okiest, Alabama) - no one denies that Iowa takes guys who aren't "blue chippers" and makes them physically ready to be NFL draft picks.

In NFL circles, you take the Iowa kid because you know he's physically fit and can train hard. Beyond the talent, Ferentz and staff truly build elite athletes.

I agree with most of what you've said but was unaware Iowa's athletes were already utilizing their services. You'd think they might add a tiger hawk to their site if that were the case.

Perhaps you are talking more with regards to football? My input was more with regards to wrestling. If Iowa has the best strength and conditioning program in the country and our wrestlers are utilizing it, I'd hope to see more evidence of it on the mat. Mark Munoz is a coach there and former wrestler, so thought maybe he might have some different perspective to offer as well.

World class athletes are utilizing them for adding mass, recovery and improving athleticism.
I also feel some new/different perspective regarding these benefits, as well as other potential benefits we're unaware, might not be a bad thing to compliment the other positive assets of our wrestling program. New & differing perspectives should always be welcome.

If we ain't learning/improving, we'll surely fall behind...and with regards to wrestling we have clearly fallen behind the Nittany Lion program. It's clear PSU benefits from the knowledge of The Treigning Lab.

 

[SPOONER]

The difference between multi-sporting in High School and DI is cavernous. Honestly, it is an insult to the elite guys training year round to think he can even begin to put the amount of work in that they are, only focusing 1/3 of the year. On top of that, you are ignoring the negative impacts that football absolutely has on wrestling during the football season.

Look, the kid is super talented and Spooner may be right. The talent pool may drop considerably over the next few years at 285. If so, maybe he is talented enough to still win it all at 75-80% of his capabilities. But, all the guys I listed had comparable abilities and are MUCH closer to 100% of their capabilities than Ben ever will be with Football being the primary focus...

My disagreement with you was a small one. “Ceiling” means highest level. I just can’t buy that mid level AA is the best he can do. He’s just too talented and only going to get bigger and stronger.

 

[MSU158]

My disagreement with you was a small one. “Ceiling” means highest level. I just can’t buy that mid level AA is the best he can do. He’s just too talented and only going to get bigger and stronger.

And I only said that because the top level 285s have been at such a crazy high level for a while now. Like I said, if you are right and the top end of the weight levels off a bit after Kerkvliet graduates, I could see his ceiling being that high.

As an aside, with him still focusing on football, do you see his level of wrestling getting better than Cass? Because, let's be honest Cass's ceiling has basically been mid level AA for his career. That isn't a slight. It is just really hard to be the guy when the "guy" has been that good and is SOLELY focused on wrestling...

 

[js8793]

All depends on what position they want him to play.

If its a true linebacker, likely the 235-240 range because he'll have to drop in coverage.

If he's some form of an Edge rusher, with very little coverage responsibility - 250-255. But that's not really up to the coaches, per say. It just depends on what his capabilities are as a player.

Only two linebackers weighed in over 240 today at the combine. It's a new age at that position.

 

[js8793]

If he's smart and has the arm length, he should move to edge. That's where the real money and draft position is.

 

[sdvike]

Im for Keuter for tournaments. If Hill goes, fine but I think BK goes further at Natty's.

 

[Inspiteofourselves]

I feel like the majority of us thought Kueter would be the guy next weekend until we saw the coaches rankings. Then you had Willie say Hill is going to be the guy. I still want it to be BK, I think its best for the team and I imagine Ben wants to go. If Ben were to go and get 7th place would a 7-3 or 6-3 record even be eligible for a Wild Card? I thought you had to have so many matches to be eligible for a Wild Card.

 

[eobhawk]

Correct. There was a time when/years when you're right - he could have been a top 3 guy. But not with this generation of athletic heavys who can actually wrestle.



To clarify - we all get official reports when a journalist basically chooses to tweet. But unless you have a coaches login to trackwrestling, weights are not publicly available.

As a follow up, Grace did say the exact weights of the two HWTs during the radio broadcast of the matchup with OSU. I don't think it is the first time he has said Kueter's weight at weigh in live on the air.

 

[MilleGinja]

Eh. It was one guy. And while he did for a trash reason (felt like he needed to get the edge to feed his family, blah, blah, blah) - it was clearly an outlier.

If there were more guys doing it, and doing it under the advisement of Coach Cal, you'd have more guys pop. Especially considering the number of Olympic athletes he works with - which have a much more rigid testing protocol.

The dude also doesn't work out of a lab (think BALCO) - so he's likely not conjuring up flaxseed oil and administering it to his athletes.

Now what is different about him? He believes in a LOT of nutrition. Right down to the kind of water you drink. Apparently he has a custom water filter to reduce the amount of arsenic his athletes are consuming. He believes in higher oxygenated conditions (hyperbaric chambers) and his strength program is pretty unique from the VERY minute data i've been able to gather. he's super secretive and unless you know an athlete who is willing to share, you're not going to find much.

But he certainly gets results. An interesting thing about the PSU S&C is that, in general, they only lift 2 times a week, both in and out of season. Obviously there are guys who do more to gain muscle - but for a program that looks as strong and conditioned as there - they do not do the traditional lifting. It's mostly circuits.

Fair. Admittedly I am biased. I don’t doubt he knows his stuff. At the time Dillashaw was cutting to fight Cejudo (I think?) I recall he made a comment about Sam being “like a mad scientist” (probable paraphrase). I believe that Sam also has experience in ultra endurance races, where PEDs tend to be common. And then TJ gets popped for EPO.

Additionally, around the time TJ was cutting, I believe they shared Sam’s “mathematical approach” to the cut, which was using Fourier transform. Which absolutely reeked of trying to make something relatively simple look incredibly complicated. Which just really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[vhsalum]

Fair. Admittedly I am biased. I don’t doubt he knows his stuff. At the time Dillashaw was cutting to fight Cejudo (I think?) I recall he made a comment about Sam being “like a mad scientist” (probable paraphrase). I believe that Sam also has experience in ultra endurance races, where PEDs tend to be common. And then TJ gets popped for EPO.

Additionally, around the time TJ was cutting, I believe they shared Sam’s “mathematical approach” to the cut, which was using Fourier transform. Which absolutely reeked of trying to make something relatively simple look incredibly complicated. Which just really rubbed me the wrong way.

Yeah. I definitely see your point there. I didn't realize that ultra endurance had a PED problem. I hate the entire concept of PEDs. Every single bit of it. I've always taken a pretty moral hard stance on that.

And yeah, i see your point about "mad scientist" and making things more complicated. He had an entire podcast above prehistoric humans living in a time when the Oxygen levels on the earth were higher. and how that helped us evolve, blah, blah blah. Just buy a hyperbaric chamber. LOL.

He definitely does some things different and does use a "mathematics" approach, which i'm sure helps him gather data. The more you find out about elite training and becoming the best athletic version of yourself - it really comes down to train hard, don't overtrain, eat as clean as you possibly kind. Like you said. Simple. lol

 

[jmadden1998]

I feel like the majority of us thought Kueter would be the guy next weekend until we saw the coaches rankings. Then you had Willie say Hill is going to be the guy. I still want it to be BK, I think its best for the team and I imagine Ben wants to go. If Ben were to go and get 7th place would a 7-3 or 6-3 record even be eligible for a Wild Card? I thought you had to have so many matches to be eligible for a Wild Card.

There isn’t a minimum number of matches to be considered for a wildcard. You must compete in your conference tourney and have at least 2 of the following:

.700 win percentage or higher
Top 33 RPI
Top 33 coaches ranking
.700 win percentage against all competition
Win against an automatic qualifier
Finish 1 spot below the last AQ spot at your conference tourney.

Also, you must wrestle a minimum of 2 matches at your conference tourney.

Ben could be eligible for a coaches ranking if he wrestles 4 matches at Big 10’s which would definitely help. Right now he has the .700 win percentage. He has beaten Doucet, Tabor and Jessen. If any of them earn an AQ he would meet that criteria.

There are only 4 wildcards at 285 which is the minimum so you need to hope for few upsets at other conference tourneys.

 

[eobhawk]

There isn’t a minimum number of matches to be considered for a wildcard. You must compete in your conference tourney and have at least 2 of the following:

.700 win percentage or higher
Top 33 RPI
Top 33 coaches ranking
.700 win percentage against all competition
Win against an automatic qualifier
Finish 1 spot below the last AQ spot at your conference tourney.

Also, you must wrestle a minimum of 2 matches at your conference tourney.

Ben could be eligible for a coaches ranking if he wrestles 4 matches at Big 10’s which would definitely help. Right now he has the .700 win percentage. He has beaten Doucet, Tabor and Jessen. If any of them earn an AQ he would meet that criteria.

There are only 4 wildcards at 285 which is the minimum so you need to hope for few upsets at other conference tourneys.

Wouldn't there by 5 wildcards available if Iowa goes with Kueter? Hill earned one of the seven AQ spots for the B1G at HWT. If they go with Kueter, Hill's AQ goes back into the wildcard pool and the number of AQs for the conference drops to six. Am I correct in that?

 

[vhsalum]

You're correct.

 

[vhsalum]

There isn’t a minimum number of matches to be considered for a wildcard. You must compete in your conference tourney and have at least 2 of the following:

.700 win percentage or higher
Top 33 RPI
Top 33 coaches ranking
.700 win percentage against all competition
Win against an automatic qualifier
Finish 1 spot below the last AQ spot at your conference tourney.

Also, you must wrestle a minimum of 2 matches at your conference tourney.

Ben could be eligible for a coaches ranking if he wrestles 4 matches at Big 10’s which would definitely help. Right now he has the .700 win percentage. He has beaten Doucet, Tabor and Jessen. If any of them earn an AQ he would meet that criteria.

There are only 4 wildcards at 285 which is the minimum so you need to hope for few upsets at other conference tourneys.

Amazing breakdown. Thanks!

 

[12tdsaw]

2 matches at conference tournament, so you can't quit until 2nd match to be in line for a wild card

 

[jmadden1998]

2 matches at conference tournament, so you can't quit until 2nd match to be in line for a wild card

Correct. You used to be able to step on the mat for 1 second and injury default and then medical forfeit the next match. Now you have to step on the mat for 1 second and injury default the second match.

 

[west2east]

Hill should qualify for NCAA

 

[el dub]

And I only said that because the top level 285s have been at such a crazy high level for a while now. Like I said, if you are right and the top end of the weight levels off a bit after Kerkvliet graduates, I could see his ceiling being that high.

As an aside, with him still focusing on football, do you see his level of wrestling getting better than Cass? Because, let's be honest Cass's ceiling has basically been mid level AA for his career. That isn't a slight. It is just really hard to be the guy when the "guy" has been that good and is SOLELY focused on wrestling...

He’s won world level events already and hwt is an odd weight class, imo.

 

[MonteHawkeyeSS]

 

[STEEL125]

Maximizing as many years as you can out of having DeLuca, Arnold, Ferrari, Kueter, + hopefully a few more blue chip recruits in the lineup is the right thing to do. Being patient sucks but that’s a solid core.

 

[TarpHawk]

Welp.

 

[Lambertt]

So is it Kueter or Hill?

 

[Slim45]

So is it Kueter or Hill?

3 posts above yours and it appears you’d have your answer.

 

[Lambertt]

3 posts above yours and it appears you’d have your answer.

Not interested in appears. Just a simple yes or no.

 

[west2east]

Not interested in appears. Just a simple yes or no.

It will be Hill . I posted above Hill should qualify for NCAAs . Thought people would pick up on that one. And Ben's tweet was also posted

 

[Lambertt]

It will be Hill . I posted above Hill should qualify for NCAAs . Thought people would pick up on that one. And Ben's tweet was also posted

Thank you. I don’t really spend much time going over the back and forth crap plus I don’t have twitter but I do have a fishing pole in my hand ready to head out the door.

 

[Slim45]

Not interested in appears. Just a simple yes or no.

Logic must not come easy to you

 

[Lambertt]

Logic must not come easy to you

Read one post above this one smart ass.

 

[Slim45]

Read one post above this one smart ass.

I don’t have twitter either. But i can see when posters link posts on here. Maybe they don’t come up for you, my apologies if they don’t

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Kueter will almost surely be football first; hard to see him sticking with both for long. I'd like to see him get the nod now as it seems likely at some point it will be too much and he will stop wrestling.

 

[Iron Doc]

Didn't the school West of us in Lincoln have some success back in the distant past with Vitamin S?

 

[el dub]

Hill should qualify for NCAA

What does that mean, Bo Diddley?