Line play
- Thread starter BigDogHawkFan
- Start date
Yeah, it was commentary on how you think Doyle was responsible for the O-line play, and then you went onto discuss more stupid shit. I'm telling you it was Reese Morgan, followed by saying that Iowa lacks the ability to recruit and develop OTs. Back on block ya go, have fun responding to a wall.
You only mentioned tackles recruited since Alaric/Wirfs in your post I responded to. Nothing about Barnett.
Davidkov may not have panned out. But he was an Iowa comitt.
Fenske was an example of a true tackle. Maybe not "legit" enough for you, idk. A lot of 3* have turned out pretty good. He played at Colorado. And the point is, he would have been a better option in '22 than the kids who weren't ready to play yet.
Proctor committed twice. Idk, I suppose you could look at it as a recruiting miss. Most people look at it that Iowa did their job and got screwed.
And I again, remind you of Miller, who I believe left because Doyle was no longer there, if I recall correctly.
And the loaded box never kept Iowa from having serviceable offense before they were playing a bunch of kids on the O-line that weren't strong enough to be playing yet.
You don't think they loaded the box this year? Same O-lineman, only now big and strong enough to get the job done and lead the league in rushing. Yes, Lester helped accentuate that. But Lester wouldn't have done crap with that line in '22 either
How much of the line improvement has to due with Lester’s run scheme. I have a hard time believing it has anything to do with Barnett finding a lucky nut. The offensive line has been a disaster over the last 3 or 4 years under his care. In the last 40 years I haven’t seen an Iowa offense line not knowing who to block like they have under Barnett.
Van Ness is an example of ONE undersized D-lineman.
But getting undersized guys was never part of the formula for the D-line.
And Van Ness was never forced into action before he was strong enough to be on the field
Yep.
Some people reveled in the fact that Iowa had all these upperclassmen starting on the OLine.
In most cases, unless your lineup is filled with transfers...it means those upperclassmen weren't good enough to make it to the NFL earlier.
And before the defenders talk about some recognition for a couple guys, that sounds like some participation ribbon for being a multi year starter.
Iowa's lineup is a collection of OGs, not athletic enough to be high level OTs.
I want to make sure I understand. Not having Reese Morgan, who last coached the offensive line in 2011 was the reason the offensive line regressed in 2022?
Where does Alt not coming because Doyle was gone fit in?
It's pretty simple, who replaced Morgan as the OL coach in 2012? Just the same as when O'keefe came back to "help" the offense after retiring.
And produced Reiff, Scherff, Donnal, Wirfs, Jackson, Blythe, Daniels and Linderbaum? So they sucked since 2011?
FFS. If Kirk's success hinged so greatly on him, he doesn't deserve to be a HOF coach or the title of "line guru".
You want to blame the woes of Iowa on someone, it falls on Kirk. Starting with hiring and feilding some if the worst offenses in D1. We have the garbage GDGD years that started the decimation of Qb and WR recruiting followed the absolute worst O caller and personality of BF. When the offense is trash good luck with recruiting. Even diamonds in the rough weren't taking a chance. The only position on offense that excelled was TE.
We had a couple of years of o-line busts and attrition coupled with anemic offenses that decimated recruiting potential. Winning usually fixes such problems and we haven't really notch many quality wins of late. Buzzer beating field goals against mediocre teams doesn't really turn heads.
We had a couple of years of o-line busts and attrition coupled with anemic offenses that decimated recruiting potential. Winning usually fixes such problems and we haven't really notch many quality wins of late. Buzzer beating field goals against mediocre teams doesn't really turn heads.
What woes of Iowa?
One of five teams nationally to have won 8+ in 9 straight non-Covid seasons
Reese was still with Iowa up until 2019, and the line play began to drop off following that departure. Lindy was the glue that kept the line together his final season.
So he was coaching both lines? Or his teachings just held strong through 8 years of not coaching the OL? If you want to say his ability to identify recruits then that is the sliver that you can hold on to. Otherwise the facts don't support your premise.
I'm sorry you consider that to be a program having woes.
Especially when two of those seasons the program had to deal with a couple factors that were clearly outliers and back luck. And those those seasons were still navigated to 8 and 10 wins. Incredibly impressive, if you ask me
My perception is that Iowa was formerly a Top 25 program, occasionally a Top 10 program.
We used to beat Top 25 teams, occasionally Top 10 teams.
This is no longer true, and has not been true for several years.
Yet, you apparently don't see the decline in the program as it happens right before your eyes.
I see a couple things that I'll start worrying about after a couple of 6 and 7 win seasons.
Right now, none of it is close to what fans have made it into
I think the lack of competiveness in the big games is more of the difference. It is a bit of revisionist history to say Iowa consistently beat top 25 teams.
When Brian took over the oline he had help in both establishing coaching and recruiting. This went on through Brian becoming the oc when Ken came back to help. Many here have commented that it was the loss of Doyle that led to the drop off of the line play. So are you making that point?
I always thought that the biggest reason for our early success under KFZ was Joe Philbin. Yes Reece Morgan was a great asset. But to me, ever since Philbin left, we've not been anywhere close to as good. Of course he became an NFL head coach so there's no way he was staying. But the combination of O'Keefe, Philbin, Morgan and Doyle was magic. And we've certainly not been within 1000 miles of that since.
Lukas was a beast. Not sure that's a significant "pick up" to Clayborn, Ballard, King, Klug, Kroul, Bins, Jaleel Johnson, C. Davis, Labron and Mike Daniels.
That losing Doyle had an impact? It did. I don’t think it was a primary impact but it contributed.
Ready for the ‘but the defensive line didn’t regress’ crowd to jump on that nugget.
Several factors have gone into it and several things people don’t consider.
In spite of having some elite OL individuals Iowa hasn’t had a dominant/great OL in a long time. There were rules changes that impacted the progress and Iowa stubbornly held on to some outdated blocking concepts.
Their recruiting didn’t match up well with their current concept and it took some lumps on the injury/defection side.
Doyle left
Coaching changes, not for the better
Concept was stale and predictable
Slow to adjust
Stubborn
Lots of variables. When do you think Iowa last had a dominant/great OL, group not individually.
Please don’t cite Joe Moore consideration. While you need to be decent to be considered the award criteria isn’t even ‘best’ OL. And we know who KF’s mentor was.
So what exactly are you arguing? The defensive line has not regressed, I think it's a farce to say that Iowa's strength and conditioning program have dropped off since Doyle. Once again, I will hands down state that Iowa's inability to recruit OTs has been a significant problem whether that be due to health issues, or athleticism. I will without a doubt state that the impact of Reese Morgan on the line play from both sides of the ball was much more significant than Doyle's.
You think the OLine hasn't been as good as it was in 2002? I would almost put up the 2019 line against any line of the Ferentz era. 2002 was special because they were all upperclassman, this last year should have been similar had the play not dropped off.
"Iowa's inability to recruit OT's.......due to health issues, or athleticism."
You've hands down stated something that doesn't make any sense. Do you think Iowa has been recruiting injured and sick OT's? What exactly are you arguing?
"I would almost put up the 2019 line against any line of the Ferentz era."
What is your criteria for that?
97th in rushing yards per game
44th in sacks allowed(and I don't think Iowa threw it all that much)
91st in avg yards per rush
So I ask once again, your criteria?
Personally I would go off of future success as a criteria. There are far more variables than what you are discussing. The 2002 line was fantastic, but they were all upper classman, with Banks as QB much like this season should have been great as well. Take the 2015 squad that ranked 58th in ypa rushing with 4.5, the 2019 ranked 87th with 5.5. Oh and Stanley did pass for a solid 2951 yards that season. More than any qb, I think in the ferentz era, but back to the topic at hand, I will say as a recruiter and developer of talent you can look at Morgan as a key member associated with line success.
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So it's not about being good as a unit? It's about two of the guys making the NFL? 3 if you include freshman Linderbaum.
Your criteria is different than most would be my guess. Most Iowa fans while happy that players succeed in the NFL would trade some of that in for better results at Iowa.
Using your criteria the 1975 Iowa Hawkeyes had one of the better OL's in the history of Iowa. Unfortunately they could only muster a 3-8 record, but man was their OL great.
I think there are many variables that go into it being a good unit. Stanley had targets, and that line provided enough for him to set a ferentz era passing record. That squad won 10 games, lost by a td to Michigan, should have had penn state at home, and a brutal loss to wisky. That team should have won a big ten title. So I don’t think many here would say that was an unsuccessful season.
This past season and most of last year vs real competition proved Iowa is a soft program ... the line play and that tackling were a joke
You think the Hawks has the same level of players as ND. It is about the Jimmy and Joes not the x and o's.
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