Line play
- Thread starter BigDogHawkFan
- Start date
This line play reminds me of every “big” game Iowa has played the last 5 years.
In 37 minutes, 3 people have clicked on the thread titled, "line play".
Says it all about this board.
No interest in what actually matters
Says it all about this board.
No interest in what actually matters
It's a Friday night and Iowa isn't playing, says more about you than this board.
Nope. Many other threads got views during that time period
I’ve said our line sucks, bailed out by KJ2
Lost that when they fired the best strength coach around.
Split time/hurt last year, freshman rushing record in 22. Lol at you.
Well the award nominators are dumbasses too because they put Iowa's O-line up for Joe Moore award.
If you can't see holes opened for the guy this season compared to the previous two seasons I don't know what to tell you
Too lazy to do it, but I wonder if win percentage with vs without Doyle is very different
Do you also see the hits in the backfield? Michigan State, UCLA, Nebraska stopping the run. Granted, Dunker didn’t play against Nebraska.
I can promise you it’s not.
Doyle was there from 2011-2014 when Iowa went 26-25. OL play has not been dominant or good since the 2000s.
Yes, the OL has been trash since Doyle left, but correlation doesn’t mean causation. The truth is Iowa has put out a bunch of guys (like Plumb) who have no business being on a P5 roster let alone starting. I would also add OL really began regressing after Brian Ferentz stopped being the OL coach. When you factor in how much stronger and faster the defense has been since Doyle left, I don’t think there’s any real cause and effect here as it relates to Doyle.
Yes, Doyle was good. That doesn’t mean S&C completely went to shit after he left. The truth is there have been too many awful weak links on the OL forced into the starting lineup while being taught by a coach (Barnett) whom I am still perplexed by in terms of why he still has a job at the University of Iowa.
Brian was a good offensive line coach. He had the kick ass mentality to coach it...that's where he should have stayed. If all the coaches were content to stay where they do their best work (Phil Parker), the Hawks would be much better off. Iowa seems to be shuffling people around to different position groups every year. Maybe if they can't do the job, they should find someone else that can!
I guess Alt could see things were not in place at Iowa to have the dominating lines his dad played in
Yeah I was thinking it would not. There are many ways to gain advantage and win games in a football program. Ferentz is remarkably consistent with different combos of players and coaches
That’s bs, our line was above average. If you look at every big run play by Kaleb it starts with a good hole to get him to the second level. The games we struggled running the ball were due to our inability to pass well enough to make teams stop putting 8-9 guys in the box.
Yes, I did. And they have nothing to do with the comparison of rush lanes between this season and the previous two.
If anything, those games make my point. Kaleb couldn't do crap without rushing lanes.
This is what we've been talking about, is it not? You said the O-line sucked and was bailed out by K2.
Although both compliment each other, lines make backs far more than backs make lines. An O-line can grind consistent yardage with a bad back. Backs cannot grind consistent yardage with bad O-lines.
It's simple numbers and simply it's football. Nothing other than fundamental. And knowledge common to everyone who knows a thing about football.
It's truly incomprehensible to me the amount of people that come onto this board on a daily basis and have virtually no understanding of the game of football. There are literally people who seem to hate the Hawks, do not watch the games, and are on here posting every day. That is something I will never be able to fathom.
To an extent, I can understand the limited knowledge of the game. It is a very complicated game. It is a game that most people never played. And it's hard to see exactly what's happening in the interior of the line from the standard horizontal angle put on tv.
But anybody can see how much the line of scrimmage moves. And anybody can choose to listen to what every football expert has been telling us for 150 years. I mean, watch any post-game interview or any studio segment for two minutes and you're going to hear an expert tell you that the game is won up-front.
It's the essence of football. It's very, very, simple. And it is what allows the layers of complexity in the game to unfold. But all of the complexities are completely secondary.
If you guys ever in your life have the interest to spend two seconds trying to learn football, then remember what I now tell you. FOOTBALL IS WON UP-FRONT.
I'm not trying to be a know it all. Because again, anyone who understands football understands this simple fundamental truth. I'm honestly only trying to help.
Let this truth sink in. Doesn't it feel great to now understand football in this way? Almost like the vault at Fort Knox has been opened before your eyes.
It should be mentioned though, that in addition to the improvement of the O-line this season, Kaleb was also a much improved back
I watched the games and watched DeJong wiff…. Not just pass blocking, but run blocking as well. We had some great moments up front, especially the left side of the line, but too much inconsistency, especially sans Dunker. I said the line was average at run blocking, bad at pass blocking. I also understand the QB ( Cade) can make them look bad.
The only post of yours I responded to was post #8 in this thread.
In that post you claimed that the O-line sucked and was bailed out by K2
I was wrong to say that. They were average run blockers. Left side better than right
it is a fact that they were manhandled up front at UCLA and against Nebraska. The pass protection was mostly trash all year. They had a few nice games , but overall it was a disappointing season IMO up front.George Barnett should be looking for work yesterday. Bunch of snowflakes ran off Doyle who was the best thing the OL had going ..
This is not at all a good characterization of what happened.
This stuff has been laid out specifically in conversation with you on this board before. I find it hard to believe you never read those posts.
The winning percentage isn't much different without Doyle. But the offensive production is.
The offense was never broken until the O-line was broken. The O-line broke due to a confluence of factors that started during the COVID shutdown.
During that time, Doyle was canned, and young lineman that ended up being forced into duty far too early were missing developmental workouts because of the shutdown.
You are right that in '22 Iowa had O-lineman on the field that had no business playing. But it wasn't because they were all bums. It was because they were underdeveloped.
Iowa was forced to play underdeveloped lineman because of significant attrition to the group at that time. Injuries, early departure for the NFL, retirement from the game, a recruit flipping, transfers (I know at least one guy left because Doyle was gone). All contributed to decimating the O-line that was projected to play at the time.
So again, Iowa was left with a bunch of guys who weren't ready to play. It wasn't just inexperienced players and inexperience as a group. The main hurdle was that these kids weren't yet physically strong enough to get the job done. That isn't a hurdle that gets cleared over night.
You have to realize that Iowa had always employed a strategy of recruiting undersized O-lineman with good feet, with the plan of building them up through a difference-making S&C coach (Doyle). This should all be starting to make a lot of sense to those trying to figure out what happened.
To say the defense has been faster and stronger since Doyle left is simply not true. It should also be noted that Doyle worked exclusively with the O-line in addition to the S&C program that he ran for the whole team.
FYI, the Iowa O-line is no longer "trash". Being that you've admitted to not watching most of the season, it's not surprising that you didn't know that. Here are a couple hints to catch you up. Iowa led the league in rushing and the O-line a semi-finalist for the Joe Moore award.
People on this board have no idea whether Barnett is any good or not. I can tell you that people who are in the know speak very highly of him. And I can also tell you that there isn't an O-line coach alive that can increase the physical strength of his players overnight
Man, you have a lot of time on your hands.
Try a good book or some movies.
Why not start recruiting HS Oxen?
Find HS players that live in the weight room.
Recruit them.
Find ones that can bench press the Titanic and squat the Himalayas.
Find ones that are ALREADY people movers so they can focus on technique at the next level.
Find HS players that live in the weight room.
Recruit them.
Find ones that can bench press the Titanic and squat the Himalayas.
Find ones that are ALREADY people movers so they can focus on technique at the next level.
I agree Doyle was a not the factor.
I would disagree that OL getting worse was caused by BF no longer being OL coach.
The Iowa Offensive line regressed when they replace two NFL level Tackles in Alaric Jackson and Tristin Wirfs with Plumb and a couple other converted guards/young guys. The problems was recruiting-- Brian and Kirk recruited a bunch of projects/lessor athletes and too many guards and not Elite tackle athletes. Alabama flipped two of the best coming out of Iowa, and legacy Alt went to Notre Dame and the secondary OT targets Iowa got were busts. Brian signed off on every OL recruit that led to the bare cupboard, so I don't see how he get's labeled an OL guru when he recruited Plumb and thought Colby/Elsbury could play OT. It's hard to find anything that Brian Ferentz was good at on Offense coaching because in the end he was responsible for the worst offense in P5 football over a two year periiod.
As to Doyle, The story I've read over the years is that when Kirk left the NFL and ended up at Iowa, he brought in an NFL type strength program with Chris Doyle as strength coach. That was revolutionary in year 2000, but well copied by 2010. The Rhabo incident and then Doyle's loose lips sealed his fate, but I don't think Chris Doyle was a difference maker after Rhabo.
This year's OL was much improved. A lot of that is guys getting older/more experienced/stronger an then having an elite RB and also
have an OC that knows what he's doing.
Fair question.
A lot of those guys don't have the feet that the lighter guys have. With the stretch zone that Iowa was built upon, the more mobile guys were are better fit.
It's just the plan Iowa chose to go with. And it has been plenty successful over two decades. The conditions that led to the O-line struggles were an outlier, not the norm.
The line has clearly bounced back from that dip. But Lester has gone more to mid-zone so far. And Iowa hasn't necessarily proven that their developmental formula for the O-line works without Doyle. So who, knows maybe bulkier recruits are in the works.
But we'll see because those guys are harder to win recruiting battles for. The formula has allowed Iowa to get less valued O-lineman and commit recruiting resources at other positions
I believe this is pretty damn accurate.
Kirk’s early vision of building a program was top notch. His assistants almost all went on to bigger jobs. They could recruit. Doyle brought in a SC program that’s now been copied by everyone.
Go watch those games from 2000-2005, and it’s a completely different athlete and program. We’ve had a few blips since then, but there was speed EVERYWHERE. And the guys were freaking mean.
What’s changed is Kirk didn’t change. He’s only gotten more stubborn and set in his ways.
Again, there’s been a few moments of bright light success. Overall all tho over the last decade Iowa has been a “hard nose blue collar” program which is a nice way of saying average
As for the OL, it’s less about SC and more about talent. Iowa hasn’t brought any in
The significant attrition to the O-line was just referenced in my above post.
Do you guys not remember that? Or have you completely disregarded it because it doesn't place enough blame on KF?
The '22 line projected to have at least some of Linderbaum, Britt, Davidkov, Jenkins, Ince, Miller, Fenske. Amongst that group was beef, talent, high ratings. NONE of them played that season. Some were lost to career ending injuries. A couple quit football for whatever reason. A couple transferred, at least one because Doyle left. Linderbaum went pro.
The '23 line projected to have at least some of Britt, Miller, Davidkov, Fenske, Proctor. Plenty of talent in that group. NONE of them played that season.
Things just happen sometimes. Bad luck can factor in. I know some of you refuse to acknowledge this reality, but KF was to blame for virtually none of that attrition.
As mentioned, the stripped down O-line room was exacerbated by losing Doyle at the same time the up-and-comers were losing developmental workouts during the COVID shutdown. I suppose you can say losing Doyle was on KF for lack of institutional control. But that's not close to the picture the KF blamers are trying to paint. And at this point, it's become understood that the racial claims were baseless, and were nothing more than a money grab by opportunists in a sensitive social climate at the time, because of the George Floyd killing.
Again, I know this reality is disappointing to the ones who are required to believe that KF was to blame for it all. You guys don't like the style of football KF plays, so you have literally made stuff up out of thin air by making this a recruiting conversation, so it will fit your narrative that KF is to blame. Your claims are not accurate and your actions and intentions are wrong. Do better.
If KF was as poor a coach as some of you try to make him out to be, he would have lost his grip on the rope in one way or another a long time ago. But that isn't the case. Fact is, KF is an excellent coach that simply ran into a patch of bad luck made up of multiple factors at the same time.
The one thing I will say is KF could have used the portal a season earlier than he did to fortify the O-line. But I'm certainly not going to beat him up for not doing so. The present portal dynamic was brand new at that time. And KF had had decades of success without transfers having been much a part of the formula at all. He quickly adjusted and hit the portal hard the following season.
The O-line has recovered from the dip and is on the bounce back. So you guys will now find other areas to try to attach blame to KF with
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Bueller?
You guys can't handle the truth?
How's two movie references for you guys?
This has happened before. You guys make ridiculous assertions that get blown out of the water and then you disappear and the thread goes dormant and gets lost in the muck.
If the topic doesn't involve a way to place blame on KF, you guys aren't interested.
Well, it's gone too far. I'm going to keep bumping this thread until everyone understands what happened to the O-line for a couple years.
The timing is truly a blessing. The holiday spirit already allows you to be able to set aside your hatred for KF for a few days. And now you have been presented a truth that takes blame off of KF for something that has been very frustrating for you.
Feel the hatred flow out of your heart. Isn't it such a release? Don't you feel lighter?
Take this spirit and fresh start, and if the lack of obligation to hate on KF hasn't put The Beacon out of business, come back onto this board to multiply positivity in the community, and to support and believe in Hawkeye football, giving them the best possible chance of being successful.
Happy holidays everyone!
Go Hawks!
You guys can't handle the truth?
How's two movie references for you guys?
This has happened before. You guys make ridiculous assertions that get blown out of the water and then you disappear and the thread goes dormant and gets lost in the muck.
If the topic doesn't involve a way to place blame on KF, you guys aren't interested.
Well, it's gone too far. I'm going to keep bumping this thread until everyone understands what happened to the O-line for a couple years.
The timing is truly a blessing. The holiday spirit already allows you to be able to set aside your hatred for KF for a few days. And now you have been presented a truth that takes blame off of KF for something that has been very frustrating for you.
Feel the hatred flow out of your heart. Isn't it such a release? Don't you feel lighter?
Take this spirit and fresh start, and if the lack of obligation to hate on KF hasn't put The Beacon out of business, come back onto this board to multiply positivity in the community, and to support and believe in Hawkeye football, giving them the best possible chance of being successful.
Happy holidays everyone!
Go Hawks!
