how soldiers in war can kill so many and watch horrific acts then come back home and lead perfectly normal lives. How can they turn that on then off again?
Makes you wonder sometimes...
- Thread starter OllieVee
- Start date
Some can't and hopefully they seek help, others like myself have no problems with it.
Some are good at compartmentalizing things, others are not. There is no shame in not being able to set those horrific acts and sights aside.
It makes me wonder why every new generation will still show up at these military roll-calls and even agree to kill people that have never harmed them personally.
I'm afraid that even if someone tried to explain it, you could never understand why people volunteer for military service.
My cousin's husband served in Vietnam...was a Ranger. Great guy and family man but very quiet and reserved. I once asked him how many of the enemy had killed and he turned and walked away... never asked again.
Because you're the antithesis of me. You're the polarity of my presence. You're very useful. My perspective against yours helps me out... every, single, time!
I have family that has served in every major conflict since WWI, rarely is this type of thing discussed. The reason being is everyone manages their experiences differently, it's definitely not something that is discussed over dinner. My father and I have shared some; but even then it's not in full detail.
I'm not surprised you would ask a veteran a totally inappropriate question like that.
This is exactly why you think I'm an idiot. The only silver lining is you had the sense to never ask again. It's probably best to never ask ANYONE that again.
Actually, I absolutely do "understand it." But, it still makes me wonder why.
If you expect, or need, to be paid to "fight for your country?" Then, it's almost a guarantee that it's not your country that you're actually fighting for.
I listened to my own drunk father relive the horrors of Vietnam my entire childhood, over and over and over. It haunted him his entire life. And, then Agent Orange killed him at 53. I knew, at a very young age, that I would NEVER be drafted or enlist to go and kill strangers in their homeland so some politician and his corporate sponsor can become more wealthy.
Great road band. Saw them first at Coe College. I was just out of the Army and a friend said he knew some girls there and so we took them to a Sha Na Na concert. Mason Profit was the lead off band and I was sold. I must have seen them 20 times over the next couple of years all over the midwest. At some point they started touring with a band called Black Oak Arkansas fronting for them...it was a helluva night. As a tip of the hat to OiT I would add that they did a show in Ottumwa once and I came away with two observations about the youth of Ottumwa during that time - #1 Them boys knew how to party. #2 There were some mighty fine looking women in Ottumwa that night. Friendly too.
Another thing you might find interesting, SSG T, is that during the live shows the Talbot brothers, who were the main drivers, were about to blend rock & country in a way that could really get the crowd going. They did a rendition of the old Dave Dudley tune 6 Days On The Road that was especially good.
If you understand then what makes you wonder?
I definitely didn't do it for the money, military pay stinks.
That's cool...
Speaking of BOA, remember this? One of my mom's favorites when I was growing up.
Absolutely I would have served for free. I enlisted because I wanted to; I was raised in a military family with a long history of service. For me it was something that needed to be done.
He is family and I was curious...and honestly who made you an authority on what is appropriate and what isn't.
People will always fight in wars that they believe in. Folks often talk about how soilders are special and the cream of the crop. But the truth is that anyone's son will do for the jobs that they need doing. These big wars usually devolve into a "Our 19 year olds can beat your 19 year olds" kinda thing very fast. I was 20 when I first saw it. I was 21 when I came home. But in a lot of ways I felt like was older, and wiser. But later on you discover that it wasn't wisdom in your head - it was just a weary cynicism instead
I am truly sorry about your Dad. I don't know his circumstances over there but it was a special kind of hell for most. One day was the same as the next. You were both the hunter and the hunted. You were never truly ever "off duty". Charlie was every bit as tough and determined as you were. Sometimes you felt invincable. Sometimes your were scared shittless. Your friends over there, they could be gone in an instant - dead, wounded, rotated - it didn't matter, they were gone, and for good. If you were with a particular guy for 4 or 5 months it was a good run - then a new guy, fresh like you were once shows up to replace your friend. Once you see yourself short you mostly ignore them. During those last 30 days you don't even bother to learn they're names. You just try to tell them what you know and then its up to them. And strange as it sounds it was even worse when you got a letter from a guy you had spent months with in hell who was now home - you knew he was no longer the same guy he was a couple months ago...and neither are you. And then you are gone too.
Coming home - now you are really alone. You didn't expect to miss the Army, but you do - just a little bit, or at least your guys. Everyone you knew well from home just a couple years ago are different. The old folks, they are all older, or dead. Your friends, they have all moved on - some a little, some a lot. You expected things, and people, to be just the same as when you left, but they're not...and one day you realize that neither are you - and that is scary.
Your old friends from home, they try. They ask you about back there. But they are sometimes very clumsy. They first ask about dope and whores. But eventually they ask what interests them most - did you kill anybody? Yes. How many? And it just dawns on you that even though you still like, even love, your old friends, even siblings, they don't get it. They can't. How could they?
Don't be too hard on your Dad. His drinking. His remembering - yeah, its easy to see how that was hard for you as his child. You paid a price for that war too. But remember that even though they call us all men when we go in, the truth is that we were still just kids ourselves - and maybe that is all we will ever be.
I have no idea how they do it. For the ones that cannot, it is understandable. It is more surprising that there are some that make it through unscathed.
J/C dude - we get it. You are a 'all about me' person. Why would he not cash the paychecks? Don't think Uncle Sam would allow that and just because someone would do something for free doesn't mean they wouldn't take pay for it. If I was good enough to play professional football or baseball I would also say "i'd do it for free". But I sure as hell am not going to turn down a contract if offered.
No, actually I'm NOT an "all about me" person at all. I'm much more empathetic with others than you're obviously able to understand. For one thing, I'm not about to take the lives of people I don't know, who have done me no harm, all because some politician tells me they're a threat to "us."
Why would he not cash them? He said he'd do it for free... like it was some moral obligation. I don't take money from people if I am doing something out of obligation, because doing it is the reward. I'm just holding him to his claim.
This is really a stupid comment. I ride my bike for free every opportunity I get. Doesn't mean if I had been good enough to be a pro that I wouldn't have taken money for it too.
No you're not. You're trying to be smart, but you're argument is a sophistry.
Yeah, I am actually haunted by the images and horrors and he's been dead for 24 years now. He made arrangements to get my brother and I out of the country when that Desert Storm crap started in the fall of 1990. He was suffering from the disease by then and he was adamant that "They won't do to my sons what they did to me." He wasn't wealthy, but he had connections. Fortunately it never came to a draft. I didn't register for selective service anyway. Fvck'em.
I also knew a guy that was a bit younger than my Dad who was basically like the character Bunny in Platoon. He talked about his year in Vietnam like it was a Boy Scout Camporee! He was on ambush frequently, always walked point, carried an M-60, and never showed ANY type of remorse, or any negative psychological impact at all. He was just a unique person. He never seemed to act like what he did was worthy of praise or thanks. he hated when people said "Thank you for your service." He would always say "They drafted me. I had no choice." he was just a resilient personality. Very cool guy, too.
That is a completely different set of circumstances. Competition bike-riding seldom requires killing people baased on political lies. But, keep pedaling.
How am I being deceptive? I'm being very direct. It's just not a philosophy you agree with. Nice word though- sophistry. It doesn't apply, but you get points for using a cool word!
I'm not a Southern Rock fan myself. But, my mom is/was. And things like that, concert footage from 1974, hearing a song from BOA, or Marshall Tucker or Lynyrd Skynyrd or the Allman Brothers reminds me of my mom being young and us going to the family pool on post while my dad was in the field. It reminds me of the drive from Ft Hood to Ft Sill for a PCS move. It reminds me of watching the news coverage of the tail end of Vietnam as a kid and not understanding why my mom was crying since my dad was just at a meeting and going to be home in a while.
As bean alluded to, that f-in war took a toll on the men and women who were there, my dad will barely talk about things. But it also took a toll on the wives and kids who missed them and couldn't understand the changes when they came home. My dad paid a price, so did my mom and I. Keep in mind, the part in We Were Soldiers where the cab drivers were delivering the telegrams to the families of troops killed? My dad was in C Co 2/7 CAV prior to the deployment, then back filled in his old unit after the Ia Drang Valley. My mom was at Ft Benning during that time, had friends that got those telegrams and even got a knock on the door from a cabbie...all he wanted was directions to another house.
It's no different than the soldiers and their families now. The soldiers bring it home, their families can't understand but try and then get frustrated when they can't fix things.
That music isn't my favorite, I actually like what my dad listened to during those times way better. But the memories I have of my mom are brought to life by things like that and are far different than and more intense than the memories I have listening to the Stones, the Who, the Animals, The Stooges or other bands my dad listened to. And many of those memories are tied to things my mom brought with her from that war.
Really - empathetic? You would only agree to help others if you were harmed personally though? I never learned that definition of empathy i guess. God forbid someone wants to sign up to possibly help make the lives of others better.
No need to talk about the last few wars - everyone knows that is where your argument is going.
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